Handhold me through divorce questions, please.
February 8, 2023 11:12 AM Subscribe
I'm not sure whether we will get divorced, but I'm trying to figure out what my financial situation would be if we did. I'm scared, please help!
I may ask another question here later about other aspects of divorce, but in this question I'm just trying to figure out what things might look like financially for me if we got divorced. I'm feeling terrified that I'm going to be destitute if it happens. We've been married between 3 and 4 years. I haven't worked outside the home since we've been married, and we have no children. (To make a long story short: we moved states away for my husband's dream job just as we got married, and our plan was for us to have children right away so I didn't get a job in the new location [which is very typical for wives of his colleagues]. But we struggled with infertility, and then some prolonged relational conflict, and now here we are.) Since we have been married, we have accumulated:
- $185,000 in savings
- a house with approx. $200,000 of equity in it (a figure I reached by taking my expectation of the sale price, minus 6% realtors' fees, minus $5k to spruce it up, minus the amount we still owe in terms of our mortgage)
- $80,000 in retirement savings (in his workplace retirement account)
All of this has been almost 100% from earnings from his job, since I haven't had a job, as he now frequently reminds me. (I know I'm an idiot, and if we split I definitely will never do this kind of thing again; I learned my lesson about being dependent on someone else, even if that person invites it and it seems like the best way to maximize net family earnings. I feel bad enough about it already, so I don't need a pile on about my stupidity - thanks.) It's not like I've done nothing: my husband is in a high-powered profession, so I have spent a fair amount of time over the past few years doing various household management things, including excellent financial management, and otherwise catering to his needs and wants. My question is: what of the above is it likely that I might get? I'd absolutely love to get 50%, although is that at all likely? Or maybe 60/40 or 70/30? Also, is alimony at all a possibility? I'm currently taking classes needed to enter professional school (think dental school, medical school, or pharmacy school - don't want to be too specific), which I expect to be able to enter in 2025 (it will take that long as I had zero background to start with, and you have to apply a year in advance [so, summer 2024 for me], but it's going very well so far). If we were to split in the summer of 2023, alimony for a year and a half or two years (or even just one year) would be really helpful while I finish up the courses needed and otherwise get on my feet. I don't know how reasonable that is to ask though. My ideal outcome would be to have him keep the house, which he can easily afford on his salary, and for me to take a couple hundred thousand cash to pay for a cheap house elsewhere in the country, possibly with some alimony if possible to help tide me over while I finish the relevant courses and then study/take the professional school entrance exam. Is that reasonable or will I be expected to work at a job while I take the classes? The classes are generally recognized as being very demanding, and I also need to continue to do volunteer work before applying.
A few other questions:
- At what date are the asset amounts fixed? (In other words, for instance, that we have $x amount in savings to be divided.) Some official date of separation?
- Am I allowed to use our joint money to live on while we are separated? What would happen if he blocks my access to our ("his") accounts? I'm not entirely sure but it's possible he might be extremely angry if I/we decide to divorce. Could I pay for an apartment with it, as well as living expenses? That would be at least a couple of thousand a month.
- How long does a divorce take?
- Do we need to get a lawyer to divorce? Any range of what that might cost? Can we not use a lawyer?
- Would his retirement account also be split (he earned that whole account while we were married, although I believe has a separate account from his previous job). Or would that be his alone?
- I, separately, have around $36,000 of retirement savings that I saved prior to marriage (all the savings happened prior to marriage, but since it is invested in the stock market, it has gone up somewhat since the date of our marriage. Would that also get completely split? Or just the increase since we got married? Or would I keep it entirely since the investment happened before we were married?)
- Is there anything else that I should know, financially or otherwise, as I contemplate this? Anything you wish you'd known?
I just want to add that I realize this post might make me seem heartless and mercenary, having so many questions about the money. This isn't actually how it is in real life: I have many other concerns too, it's all an emotionally gut-wrenching disaster, and I'm not sure we will divorce, but I'm trying to get a sense of the money because I'm worried about being in deep poverty, and my husband might make the choice to divorce, even if I don't. My husband makes a lot of money and will likely continue to do so, so I am less worried about him than about me, especially as I wasted four years of my life on this while he got four years with extra help and support. I think that my husband will think that he worked for all those assets himself and that I shouldn't get any. I understand why he'd feel like this; but on the other hand, I sacrificed my entire future and dreams to throw in my lot with him - that's what we both basically agreed on when we got married and moved together for his dream job - and it's not my fault either that it didn't pan out as either of us hoped, so my view is that 50/50 would be fair if it is possible. I know much of this stuff is quite state-specific, and I definitely know you're not my lawyer, but I think it would help my anxiety to know the range of options that might be possible. Knowing what happened for others, along what timeline, would also be helpful. Thoughts?
I may ask another question here later about other aspects of divorce, but in this question I'm just trying to figure out what things might look like financially for me if we got divorced. I'm feeling terrified that I'm going to be destitute if it happens. We've been married between 3 and 4 years. I haven't worked outside the home since we've been married, and we have no children. (To make a long story short: we moved states away for my husband's dream job just as we got married, and our plan was for us to have children right away so I didn't get a job in the new location [which is very typical for wives of his colleagues]. But we struggled with infertility, and then some prolonged relational conflict, and now here we are.) Since we have been married, we have accumulated:
- $185,000 in savings
- a house with approx. $200,000 of equity in it (a figure I reached by taking my expectation of the sale price, minus 6% realtors' fees, minus $5k to spruce it up, minus the amount we still owe in terms of our mortgage)
- $80,000 in retirement savings (in his workplace retirement account)
All of this has been almost 100% from earnings from his job, since I haven't had a job, as he now frequently reminds me. (I know I'm an idiot, and if we split I definitely will never do this kind of thing again; I learned my lesson about being dependent on someone else, even if that person invites it and it seems like the best way to maximize net family earnings. I feel bad enough about it already, so I don't need a pile on about my stupidity - thanks.) It's not like I've done nothing: my husband is in a high-powered profession, so I have spent a fair amount of time over the past few years doing various household management things, including excellent financial management, and otherwise catering to his needs and wants. My question is: what of the above is it likely that I might get? I'd absolutely love to get 50%, although is that at all likely? Or maybe 60/40 or 70/30? Also, is alimony at all a possibility? I'm currently taking classes needed to enter professional school (think dental school, medical school, or pharmacy school - don't want to be too specific), which I expect to be able to enter in 2025 (it will take that long as I had zero background to start with, and you have to apply a year in advance [so, summer 2024 for me], but it's going very well so far). If we were to split in the summer of 2023, alimony for a year and a half or two years (or even just one year) would be really helpful while I finish up the courses needed and otherwise get on my feet. I don't know how reasonable that is to ask though. My ideal outcome would be to have him keep the house, which he can easily afford on his salary, and for me to take a couple hundred thousand cash to pay for a cheap house elsewhere in the country, possibly with some alimony if possible to help tide me over while I finish the relevant courses and then study/take the professional school entrance exam. Is that reasonable or will I be expected to work at a job while I take the classes? The classes are generally recognized as being very demanding, and I also need to continue to do volunteer work before applying.
A few other questions:
- At what date are the asset amounts fixed? (In other words, for instance, that we have $x amount in savings to be divided.) Some official date of separation?
- Am I allowed to use our joint money to live on while we are separated? What would happen if he blocks my access to our ("his") accounts? I'm not entirely sure but it's possible he might be extremely angry if I/we decide to divorce. Could I pay for an apartment with it, as well as living expenses? That would be at least a couple of thousand a month.
- How long does a divorce take?
- Do we need to get a lawyer to divorce? Any range of what that might cost? Can we not use a lawyer?
- Would his retirement account also be split (he earned that whole account while we were married, although I believe has a separate account from his previous job). Or would that be his alone?
- I, separately, have around $36,000 of retirement savings that I saved prior to marriage (all the savings happened prior to marriage, but since it is invested in the stock market, it has gone up somewhat since the date of our marriage. Would that also get completely split? Or just the increase since we got married? Or would I keep it entirely since the investment happened before we were married?)
- Is there anything else that I should know, financially or otherwise, as I contemplate this? Anything you wish you'd known?
I just want to add that I realize this post might make me seem heartless and mercenary, having so many questions about the money. This isn't actually how it is in real life: I have many other concerns too, it's all an emotionally gut-wrenching disaster, and I'm not sure we will divorce, but I'm trying to get a sense of the money because I'm worried about being in deep poverty, and my husband might make the choice to divorce, even if I don't. My husband makes a lot of money and will likely continue to do so, so I am less worried about him than about me, especially as I wasted four years of my life on this while he got four years with extra help and support. I think that my husband will think that he worked for all those assets himself and that I shouldn't get any. I understand why he'd feel like this; but on the other hand, I sacrificed my entire future and dreams to throw in my lot with him - that's what we both basically agreed on when we got married and moved together for his dream job - and it's not my fault either that it didn't pan out as either of us hoped, so my view is that 50/50 would be fair if it is possible. I know much of this stuff is quite state-specific, and I definitely know you're not my lawyer, but I think it would help my anxiety to know the range of options that might be possible. Knowing what happened for others, along what timeline, would also be helpful. Thoughts?
You don’t sound mercenary, you sound practical and appropriately worried about next steps. But I really think you need a lawyer who knows the laws in your state. So much of this will be jurisdiction specific.
I can’t give you what you asked for but maybe it will help to hear: you invested these years of your life in faith and hope and love. That doesn’t make you a bad or foolish person, it makes you a very normal person. You might be in a pickle now, but it is a common one, and you will find your way out of it.
You mention anger. I would recommend that you look into what resources are available for women in crisis in your area. I hope you don’t need them, but I want you to have them just in case.
Do you have friends or family you can stay with for a time, after a split? If you need time to get your bearings, can you take a semester off from school?
posted by eirias at 11:24 AM on February 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can’t give you what you asked for but maybe it will help to hear: you invested these years of your life in faith and hope and love. That doesn’t make you a bad or foolish person, it makes you a very normal person. You might be in a pickle now, but it is a common one, and you will find your way out of it.
You mention anger. I would recommend that you look into what resources are available for women in crisis in your area. I hope you don’t need them, but I want you to have them just in case.
Do you have friends or family you can stay with for a time, after a split? If you need time to get your bearings, can you take a semester off from school?
posted by eirias at 11:24 AM on February 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
First of all, it's not mercenary to worry about your living and your financial future. Put that thought from your mind. If you don't believe me, see how your husband acts about his. For that reason alone, you'll need a lawyer. Your husband is going to get one for himself, I can almost guarantee it.
However, divorce laws are much too state-specific for you to get good advice here. For example, if you live in a community property state (like California), virtually all assets acquired by either partner during the marriage should be split evenly between the two of them. In a non-community property state, there's a whole range of possible arrangements. You may or may not be entitled to alimony/spousal maintenance for a certain period, but it varies greatly.
But it sounds like you do have a college degree and don't have debt (except to the extent you end up owning the house) and you're still pretty young and don't have any kids and even have a start on retirement savings, so...destitution? No. Do you have any idea how many people there are in their late 20s or early 30s starting a second career? A near-infinite supply! You'll be ahead of me, who started over around the same time with a sadly negative net worth and now has a decent if not high standard of living.
Finally, I want to ask you to think about whether you need a safety plan for when you do tell him you want a divorce. Even if you're 100% sure he won't be violent, he does sound controlling. Here is a pretty good list of practical tips for preparing to tell your husband you're leaving him. I want to especially stress putting aside some cash of your own somewhere he can't access it.
posted by praemunire at 11:27 AM on February 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
However, divorce laws are much too state-specific for you to get good advice here. For example, if you live in a community property state (like California), virtually all assets acquired by either partner during the marriage should be split evenly between the two of them. In a non-community property state, there's a whole range of possible arrangements. You may or may not be entitled to alimony/spousal maintenance for a certain period, but it varies greatly.
But it sounds like you do have a college degree and don't have debt (except to the extent you end up owning the house) and you're still pretty young and don't have any kids and even have a start on retirement savings, so...destitution? No. Do you have any idea how many people there are in their late 20s or early 30s starting a second career? A near-infinite supply! You'll be ahead of me, who started over around the same time with a sadly negative net worth and now has a decent if not high standard of living.
Finally, I want to ask you to think about whether you need a safety plan for when you do tell him you want a divorce. Even if you're 100% sure he won't be violent, he does sound controlling. Here is a pretty good list of practical tips for preparing to tell your husband you're leaving him. I want to especially stress putting aside some cash of your own somewhere he can't access it.
posted by praemunire at 11:27 AM on February 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
I just want to add that I realize this post might make me seem heartless and mercenary, having so many questions about the money.
It doesn't at all. It sounds smart. And to your earlier point, no one with any empathy would think you were dumb for having been in this situation. It made sense for your situation at the time. I'm making a point to say this because I think a lot of women get themselves in bad financial situations after divorce because they don't want to look greedy or because they feel shamed by people in their lives for having relied on their husband's income. But it looks like it worked very well for him professionally to have a partner without a job and you played a part in his success.
Do we need to get a lawyer to divorce? Any range of what that might cost? Can we not use a lawyer?
Given your concerns about how he'll act, I think YOU need a lawyer. You can have a free consult with a lawyer now, before you make any decisions, and they will tell you the broad parameters of what you can expect, like if your state is a community property state. Having this consult is not a commitment to divorce, it's a fact-finding exercise and I really think you should do that.
posted by lunasol at 11:28 AM on February 8, 2023 [18 favorites]
It doesn't at all. It sounds smart. And to your earlier point, no one with any empathy would think you were dumb for having been in this situation. It made sense for your situation at the time. I'm making a point to say this because I think a lot of women get themselves in bad financial situations after divorce because they don't want to look greedy or because they feel shamed by people in their lives for having relied on their husband's income. But it looks like it worked very well for him professionally to have a partner without a job and you played a part in his success.
Do we need to get a lawyer to divorce? Any range of what that might cost? Can we not use a lawyer?
Given your concerns about how he'll act, I think YOU need a lawyer. You can have a free consult with a lawyer now, before you make any decisions, and they will tell you the broad parameters of what you can expect, like if your state is a community property state. Having this consult is not a commitment to divorce, it's a fact-finding exercise and I really think you should do that.
posted by lunasol at 11:28 AM on February 8, 2023 [18 favorites]
This really depends on your jurisdiction, particularly whether you are in a community property state. But, on the bank accounts, you can probably contact the bank directly and ask them what the rules are for joint accounts.
I strongly encourage you to be mercenary and get what you are entitled to. Part of splitting up is realising that you must now put yourself firmly first.
posted by plonkee at 11:28 AM on February 8, 2023 [6 favorites]
I strongly encourage you to be mercenary and get what you are entitled to. Part of splitting up is realising that you must now put yourself firmly first.
posted by plonkee at 11:28 AM on February 8, 2023 [6 favorites]
As everyone said, you need a consultation with an attorney. But I think you should be mercenary—a lot of women fare poorly in divorce because they don’t want to appear greedy. And one thing to munch on mich later: I have had two women in my lives who are brilliant, well-educated, multiple degrees, impressive work history etc etc find themselves completely destitute at the time of divorce to high powered, high earning men. Both were so ashamed of this. And both had also been encouraged to stop working by these men almost immediately after they got married for one reason or another. They had also supported these men in non-monetary but invaluable ways pre and post marriage. So not always a trap when men do the “baby, you can just stay at home”, but it often is. Anyway, just a thought for way down the line. Also, in both od these cases the high-powered men tried to screw their wives financially and leave them destitute—and they certainly struggled in the early days of the divorce process— but the law was on their sides and they were mercenary and a few years out are thriving. You’ll be okay.
posted by namemeansgazelle at 11:54 AM on February 8, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by namemeansgazelle at 11:54 AM on February 8, 2023 [9 favorites]
Oh, also, you’re not divorced yet. I would start trying to at least put together a financial game plan for when you leave and the immediate months after. Talk to an attorney about the joint account thing before you do anything though.
posted by namemeansgazelle at 11:56 AM on February 8, 2023
posted by namemeansgazelle at 11:56 AM on February 8, 2023
It's true that a lot of your questions depend on the state where you are located, and also finding the right lawyer. But from my own experience of divorce, there is a lot that can be a negotiated before it gets to the court level, and even then, the court can decide that the agreement presented is not fair, and needs to be renegotiated.
I was in a similar situation to you in that I wasn't working outside my home, but I did do a lot to support my ex-husbands very successful career. We did mediate our divorce (though we also had our own lawyers), and we agreed with child support for 18 years (until my youngest graduated from college) and alimony until he retires, which will be 30 years if he retires at 65. However, the laws were changed in my state since my divorce, and alimony does not generally continue for a period as long as mine with out compelling reasons (like age of the person receiving money, their ability to work etc.) But I also had friends (both females with stay at home husbands) who got divorced after the laws changed and both were ordered to pay alimony to them based on the finances.
You 100% need a lawyer, and you need to find one that will help you get what you are entitled to. You should feel no shame in advocating for yourself, and also acknowledging that you contributed to your husband's career as well as the finances of your household through the unpaid work you did. My biggest piece of advice for choosing a lawyer is to find one that does not engage with you around the emotions of your divorce. I learned this the hard way with my first lawyer who would let me cry and complain, and all the while charge me for the time. My second lawyer cut me off as soon as I started to spin out on things that were beyond what the law and courts could dictate- and that saved me a lot of money in the mean time. Your lawyer should be able to tell you exactly what you need to do to successfully divorce and be positioned to start your new life.
As an aside, my divorce was one of the hardest things I have done in my life, and it is also the thing that lead to a transformation of my life, and I was able to create a life that I love, with a career I love, and I now have a partner who is better suited to me. We have been together longer than I was married. You will go through some dark times as you progress, but a better life is on the other side- you just need to put one foot in front of the other until you get there.
posted by momochan at 12:04 PM on February 8, 2023 [17 favorites]
I was in a similar situation to you in that I wasn't working outside my home, but I did do a lot to support my ex-husbands very successful career. We did mediate our divorce (though we also had our own lawyers), and we agreed with child support for 18 years (until my youngest graduated from college) and alimony until he retires, which will be 30 years if he retires at 65. However, the laws were changed in my state since my divorce, and alimony does not generally continue for a period as long as mine with out compelling reasons (like age of the person receiving money, their ability to work etc.) But I also had friends (both females with stay at home husbands) who got divorced after the laws changed and both were ordered to pay alimony to them based on the finances.
You 100% need a lawyer, and you need to find one that will help you get what you are entitled to. You should feel no shame in advocating for yourself, and also acknowledging that you contributed to your husband's career as well as the finances of your household through the unpaid work you did. My biggest piece of advice for choosing a lawyer is to find one that does not engage with you around the emotions of your divorce. I learned this the hard way with my first lawyer who would let me cry and complain, and all the while charge me for the time. My second lawyer cut me off as soon as I started to spin out on things that were beyond what the law and courts could dictate- and that saved me a lot of money in the mean time. Your lawyer should be able to tell you exactly what you need to do to successfully divorce and be positioned to start your new life.
As an aside, my divorce was one of the hardest things I have done in my life, and it is also the thing that lead to a transformation of my life, and I was able to create a life that I love, with a career I love, and I now have a partner who is better suited to me. We have been together longer than I was married. You will go through some dark times as you progress, but a better life is on the other side- you just need to put one foot in front of the other until you get there.
posted by momochan at 12:04 PM on February 8, 2023 [17 favorites]
Also, I can’t speak to the laws where you are, and I’m not an expert anyplace, but a 50-50 split of assets accumulated during the marriage doesn’t sound unlikely to me at all. You need a lawyer to tell you for real, but I wouldn’t talk yourself into going for less than what you’re owed, or into underestimating how much that might be.
posted by LizardBreath at 12:06 PM on February 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by LizardBreath at 12:06 PM on February 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
First of all, you need to stop apologizing. Any decision can look either bad or brilliant in retrospect and it all depends on how it plays out. You did what made sense for you at the time. There were several years during my marriage when I didn't work or worked very little and when I was surprise-divorcing I felt like it had all been a terrible mistake. But it turned out to be triflingly easy to get back into a decent job and I'm not actually sorry about those years at all. I did what was best for me at the time and it worked out fine. Ignore all the online doomsaying about financial prospects for women in divorce. Everything working out fine makes for boring copy.
Second, get a lawyer now, whether you think you're divorcing or not, because you want to make the decision on an informed basis. But definitely lose the cringing, apologetic mindset because it can only hurt you. You're right, he will feel like he did it all himself and is entitled to everything. He's not and you need to get your head straight for this fight.
posted by HotToddy at 1:01 PM on February 8, 2023 [12 favorites]
Second, get a lawyer now, whether you think you're divorcing or not, because you want to make the decision on an informed basis. But definitely lose the cringing, apologetic mindset because it can only hurt you. You're right, he will feel like he did it all himself and is entitled to everything. He's not and you need to get your head straight for this fight.
posted by HotToddy at 1:01 PM on February 8, 2023 [12 favorites]
Lawyers are both litigators and educators. You need an education from a good lawyer. Now.
Have a one time meeting, pay cash, and get all of these questions answered by someone who can speak authoritatively.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:02 PM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Have a one time meeting, pay cash, and get all of these questions answered by someone who can speak authoritatively.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:02 PM on February 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think that my husband will think that he worked for all those assets himself and that I shouldn't get any.
Yes. This is unfortunately very common. You cannot afford not to be mercenary right now. I have been really, really disheartened to hear many of my male friends and acquaintances and even my own brother talk without irony about how their ex-wives "got away with" all their assets that they'd worked so hard to accumulate FOR THEIR FAMILY. Like what in the actual fuck. Secure your future.
If this helps at all, when I was speaking somewhat hysterically on the phone to a lawyer in the early days of starting my divorce process, she told me quite frankly that as far as they are concerned, the division of assets is the easiest and by far least emotional part of the whole ordeal. Custody and child support were the much more challenging and intractable pieces, everything else was just a few formulas and a list of numbers on a spreadsheet. This was oddly comforting to hear because it was the part I was by far most scared and stressed about and it helped me get a sense of what I was entitled to, which in reality was quite a bit more than I had originally felt prepared for. Highly, highly recommend getting a few free consultations with lawyers on the calendar, they will clarify your immediate concerns and give you direction on what and how to focus on next.
I can't help with everything but a stab at a few answers:
- At what date are the asset amounts fixed? For us, it was the time we started filling out the paperwork.
- Am I allowed to use our joint money to live on while we are separated? Yes. You will have to. This is very common.
- How long does a divorce take? A few months at minimum if you're largely aligned and things are not combative. Months to years if not.
- Do we need to get a lawyer to divorce? Any range of what that might cost? Can we not use a lawyer? You can get by without one (I did, even with kids in the mix) but I honestly wouldn't advise it, especially if he is as prepared as you say to claim all the money as "his." We were largely in alignment, highly motivated not to drag things out, had a pretty clear vision of how to divide things equitably and, most critically to our success, had always made similar salaries. The minimum amount you will spend on lawyers is their retainer, probably. For example, I consulted with one who said that if things between us were indeed as cooperative and low-conflict as I had presented them, she was confident that she could get everything done within ten billable hours, which was her minimum, at a billable rate of $200/hour. My boyfriend and his ex-wife went to mediation but things between them were far more contentious and they spent $7k.
- Would his retirement account also be split (he earned that whole account while we were married, although I believe has a separate account from his previous job). Or would that be his alone? They'll put this on the balance sheet along with everything else.
- I, separately, have around $36,000 of retirement savings that I saved prior to marriage (all the savings happened prior to marriage, but since it is invested in the stock market, it has gone up somewhat since the date of our marriage. Would that also get completely split? Or just the increase since we got married? Or would I keep it entirely since the investment happened before we were married?) This would also go on the balance sheet but I imagine you'd probably keep the whole thing for simplicity. If amounts are traded back and forth, they will backdate the amount to when the paperwork was filed or divorce finalized.
- Is there anything else that I should know, financially or otherwise, as I contemplate this? Anything you wish you'd known? Echoing what others have said, obviously defer to your legal counsel and it depends where you live but expecting a 50/50 split doesn't sound unreasonable to me at all. When my parents split, my mom kept the house because that's what she wanted and my dad took an equivalent amount of cash from their accounts. I kept my house and did a cash-out refinance to make my ex-husband whole. They will factor your education, job prospects, and future earning potential into determining how much alimony (or spousal maintenance as it's also called) is paid and for how long.
Good luck to you. I'm so sorry things have turned in the direction that they have, I don't doubt that having arrived at this point is incredibly painful. Take care of and look out for yourself. <3
posted by anderjen at 2:51 PM on February 8, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yes. This is unfortunately very common. You cannot afford not to be mercenary right now. I have been really, really disheartened to hear many of my male friends and acquaintances and even my own brother talk without irony about how their ex-wives "got away with" all their assets that they'd worked so hard to accumulate FOR THEIR FAMILY. Like what in the actual fuck. Secure your future.
If this helps at all, when I was speaking somewhat hysterically on the phone to a lawyer in the early days of starting my divorce process, she told me quite frankly that as far as they are concerned, the division of assets is the easiest and by far least emotional part of the whole ordeal. Custody and child support were the much more challenging and intractable pieces, everything else was just a few formulas and a list of numbers on a spreadsheet. This was oddly comforting to hear because it was the part I was by far most scared and stressed about and it helped me get a sense of what I was entitled to, which in reality was quite a bit more than I had originally felt prepared for. Highly, highly recommend getting a few free consultations with lawyers on the calendar, they will clarify your immediate concerns and give you direction on what and how to focus on next.
I can't help with everything but a stab at a few answers:
- At what date are the asset amounts fixed? For us, it was the time we started filling out the paperwork.
- Am I allowed to use our joint money to live on while we are separated? Yes. You will have to. This is very common.
- How long does a divorce take? A few months at minimum if you're largely aligned and things are not combative. Months to years if not.
- Do we need to get a lawyer to divorce? Any range of what that might cost? Can we not use a lawyer? You can get by without one (I did, even with kids in the mix) but I honestly wouldn't advise it, especially if he is as prepared as you say to claim all the money as "his." We were largely in alignment, highly motivated not to drag things out, had a pretty clear vision of how to divide things equitably and, most critically to our success, had always made similar salaries. The minimum amount you will spend on lawyers is their retainer, probably. For example, I consulted with one who said that if things between us were indeed as cooperative and low-conflict as I had presented them, she was confident that she could get everything done within ten billable hours, which was her minimum, at a billable rate of $200/hour. My boyfriend and his ex-wife went to mediation but things between them were far more contentious and they spent $7k.
- Would his retirement account also be split (he earned that whole account while we were married, although I believe has a separate account from his previous job). Or would that be his alone? They'll put this on the balance sheet along with everything else.
- I, separately, have around $36,000 of retirement savings that I saved prior to marriage (all the savings happened prior to marriage, but since it is invested in the stock market, it has gone up somewhat since the date of our marriage. Would that also get completely split? Or just the increase since we got married? Or would I keep it entirely since the investment happened before we were married?) This would also go on the balance sheet but I imagine you'd probably keep the whole thing for simplicity. If amounts are traded back and forth, they will backdate the amount to when the paperwork was filed or divorce finalized.
- Is there anything else that I should know, financially or otherwise, as I contemplate this? Anything you wish you'd known? Echoing what others have said, obviously defer to your legal counsel and it depends where you live but expecting a 50/50 split doesn't sound unreasonable to me at all. When my parents split, my mom kept the house because that's what she wanted and my dad took an equivalent amount of cash from their accounts. I kept my house and did a cash-out refinance to make my ex-husband whole. They will factor your education, job prospects, and future earning potential into determining how much alimony (or spousal maintenance as it's also called) is paid and for how long.
Good luck to you. I'm so sorry things have turned in the direction that they have, I don't doubt that having arrived at this point is incredibly painful. Take care of and look out for yourself. <3
posted by anderjen at 2:51 PM on February 8, 2023 [6 favorites]
Girl, get a lawyer and get everything you are entitled to (hopefully 50%). Do not feel bad for a second. The deal that was made was that you would do domestic labor in support of his earnings. Do not feel bad for a second.
posted by haptic_avenger at 5:43 PM on February 8, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by haptic_avenger at 5:43 PM on February 8, 2023 [11 favorites]
Definitely consult a lawyer and the sooner the better. Being on the front foot in these situations can be critical and it's highly likely your husband is about to or has already done this.
That you haven't 'worked' is untrue - it's unlikely he could have earned what he did without your support, so don't ever feel bad about going after what is yours.
posted by dg at 5:36 PM on February 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
That you haven't 'worked' is untrue - it's unlikely he could have earned what he did without your support, so don't ever feel bad about going after what is yours.
posted by dg at 5:36 PM on February 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
First squirrel away some cash and hide it well, at least an amount large enough to provide for a deposit on an apartment, two months' rent, and two month's groceries. Money for phone, gas, and a car payment, if you need it, plus a couple hundred for unexpected expenses.
Get the best damn lawyer you can find. Don't let him know you've got one. Figure out what you're entitled to, get your exit plan mapped out, and DON'T say a bloody work to him about divorce before you are ready and prepared to walk. I'd bet good money that he will start screwing you over if you say something ahead of the game, and I would be inclined to think that he's already started to stash money away, simply because what he says to you is that he already believes everything is his. If he says you haven't worked during the marriage, then obviously he thinks you don't deserve anything if you leave him. Sounds like has the bucks to really screw you over. Please, please don't let him do it!
If he's making a lot of money, and will continue to make an exceptional amount more, it's not at all too much to ask for alimony. The idea of alimony could be used as a bargaining point for you. Discuss that whole issue with your lawyer---perhaps you could trade alimony for short term payments for support, housing and tuition for you to finish your degree. You would then be done with him, and he with you.
Sounds like your self-esteem is in the toilet because of the verbal abuse you have been given. You absolutely did work at home, and if he were to attempt to hire someone for the work you have done, he would pay a pretty penny indeed. A good lawyer will get you the amount you deserve for the years you were his social coordinator, his housekeeper, his wardrobe organizer, financial assistant, caterer, and on and on and....
Someone that encourages you to be dependent has positioned you to be vulnerable to abuse, even if you agree to it. Sounds like he doesn't have much respect for you, and living with that is poisonous. I will also bet that there have been things he has said or implied with regard to infertility and about the relationship where he caused you to have many self-doubts and negative thoughts. Please have more self-regard and confidence! You got this, girl.
posted by BlueHorse at 8:10 PM on February 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
Get the best damn lawyer you can find. Don't let him know you've got one. Figure out what you're entitled to, get your exit plan mapped out, and DON'T say a bloody work to him about divorce before you are ready and prepared to walk. I'd bet good money that he will start screwing you over if you say something ahead of the game, and I would be inclined to think that he's already started to stash money away, simply because what he says to you is that he already believes everything is his. If he says you haven't worked during the marriage, then obviously he thinks you don't deserve anything if you leave him. Sounds like has the bucks to really screw you over. Please, please don't let him do it!
If he's making a lot of money, and will continue to make an exceptional amount more, it's not at all too much to ask for alimony. The idea of alimony could be used as a bargaining point for you. Discuss that whole issue with your lawyer---perhaps you could trade alimony for short term payments for support, housing and tuition for you to finish your degree. You would then be done with him, and he with you.
Sounds like your self-esteem is in the toilet because of the verbal abuse you have been given. You absolutely did work at home, and if he were to attempt to hire someone for the work you have done, he would pay a pretty penny indeed. A good lawyer will get you the amount you deserve for the years you were his social coordinator, his housekeeper, his wardrobe organizer, financial assistant, caterer, and on and on and....
Someone that encourages you to be dependent has positioned you to be vulnerable to abuse, even if you agree to it. Sounds like he doesn't have much respect for you, and living with that is poisonous. I will also bet that there have been things he has said or implied with regard to infertility and about the relationship where he caused you to have many self-doubts and negative thoughts. Please have more self-regard and confidence! You got this, girl.
posted by BlueHorse at 8:10 PM on February 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
Right now, take pictures of bank statements, mortgage statements, pension statements. Car loans? Basically, document your financial circumstances thoroughly. I'd set up a new gmail account and use it cautiously in a private browser window; store everything there. Document account numbers and anything you can think of for every bill, incl. electric, etc. You might not need info on minor bills, but it's easy.
It might be smart to have a credit card in your own name in case he tries to shut you out of assets. Does he control your mobile phone account, including ownership of your number? Some people planning divorce will start hiding assets or take other actions in anger that can make things just so hard for you.
Start writing the narrative of how he asked you to follow him to his dream job and not work. This will help you remember details. Think about friends and family who know the details. Divorces seldom go to a trial, but building up your confidence will really help.
Yes, you need a lawyer. The Family Violence shelter near you may be able to find a good attorney, even if there is no physical abuse. His behavior sounds like it's a form of emotional and certainly financial abuse, and they are a good resource.
In some states, assets held before marriage are not split.
Why would you not get 50% of the assets? You should.
Think about what you want and need and how you will recover. Not about him and what he thinks should happen. It's fair to ask for alimony for the time you're in school, for instance. I've seen so many women leave assets behind because they got bullied. A therapist can help you re-build your sense of self-worth.
posted by theora55 at 9:15 AM on February 10, 2023
It might be smart to have a credit card in your own name in case he tries to shut you out of assets. Does he control your mobile phone account, including ownership of your number? Some people planning divorce will start hiding assets or take other actions in anger that can make things just so hard for you.
Start writing the narrative of how he asked you to follow him to his dream job and not work. This will help you remember details. Think about friends and family who know the details. Divorces seldom go to a trial, but building up your confidence will really help.
Yes, you need a lawyer. The Family Violence shelter near you may be able to find a good attorney, even if there is no physical abuse. His behavior sounds like it's a form of emotional and certainly financial abuse, and they are a good resource.
In some states, assets held before marriage are not split.
Why would you not get 50% of the assets? You should.
Think about what you want and need and how you will recover. Not about him and what he thinks should happen. It's fair to ask for alimony for the time you're in school, for instance. I've seen so many women leave assets behind because they got bullied. A therapist can help you re-build your sense of self-worth.
posted by theora55 at 9:15 AM on February 10, 2023
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posted by DrGail at 11:21 AM on February 8, 2023 [5 favorites]