What car is like a Honda Fit?
January 27, 2023 2:34 PM Subscribe
Because Reasons, I will probably need to purchase a car suddenly. I don't particularly want to, but mine (a Honda Fit) is likely totaled. If Honda was still making the Fit, there's no question that I'd buy another. What car should I get? Parameters + additional car-related questions inside.
Basically I want a relatively inexpensive car that I can occasionally fill with a lot of people or stuff, and that is reasonably comfortable for the 800-mile round trip I drive 2-3 times per year. (Which is why my Fit was perfect.)
-- Non-negotiable: a new car, not used.
-- I'm in a big city so I have access to every dealership.
-- I want a car that gets good mileage.
-- Hybrid, sure?
-- Electric...fine, though I def. don't understand how this works, and I'm generally not an early adopter. See also: Los Angeles electricity bills are already astronomical and I don't feel like I have an understanding of how "pay an even bigger electric bill!" is a good solution?
-- I have excellent credit so I'll likely qualify for my credit union's 4.5% rate. I hate that rates are so high.
-- I've never done a lease, and I don't like the idea of being tied to a mileage limit. (I live in Los Angeles, and I do that earlier mentioned 800-mi. drive 2-3x per year, so.) Convince me otherwise?
-- I liked the Fit because it was cheap + had Tardis-level room inside (me + 4 teen boys + their musical instruments and school bags? sure!) and it was a reasonably comfortable ride.
-- Lastly, I want a "normal" car that is easy to repair and get parts for. I have seen a relative with a Tesla have ridiculous wait times for normal-level repairs and service. I have seen a friend with a Mini Cooper pay astronomical prices for parts. I want the opposite of those.
Car me, please!
Basically I want a relatively inexpensive car that I can occasionally fill with a lot of people or stuff, and that is reasonably comfortable for the 800-mile round trip I drive 2-3 times per year. (Which is why my Fit was perfect.)
-- Non-negotiable: a new car, not used.
-- I'm in a big city so I have access to every dealership.
-- I want a car that gets good mileage.
-- Hybrid, sure?
-- Electric...fine, though I def. don't understand how this works, and I'm generally not an early adopter. See also: Los Angeles electricity bills are already astronomical and I don't feel like I have an understanding of how "pay an even bigger electric bill!" is a good solution?
-- I have excellent credit so I'll likely qualify for my credit union's 4.5% rate. I hate that rates are so high.
-- I've never done a lease, and I don't like the idea of being tied to a mileage limit. (I live in Los Angeles, and I do that earlier mentioned 800-mi. drive 2-3x per year, so.) Convince me otherwise?
-- I liked the Fit because it was cheap + had Tardis-level room inside (me + 4 teen boys + their musical instruments and school bags? sure!) and it was a reasonably comfortable ride.
-- Lastly, I want a "normal" car that is easy to repair and get parts for. I have seen a relative with a Tesla have ridiculous wait times for normal-level repairs and service. I have seen a friend with a Mini Cooper pay astronomical prices for parts. I want the opposite of those.
Car me, please!
Take a look at VW’s offerings. We had similar car requirements and bought a VW golf several years ago. We still like it a lot!
posted by peperomia at 3:24 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by peperomia at 3:24 PM on January 27, 2023
The smallest current Honda models are the Civic and the HR-V.
You might also check out the the non-Prime Prius models and the Mazda3, which gets really good reviews, and the Toyota CH-R, which does not.
And the Subaru Crosstrek. It's a little bigger than some of the other things I'm mentioning, but I know lots of people that own them and they all seem to love them.
posted by box at 3:32 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
You might also check out the the non-Prime Prius models and the Mazda3, which gets really good reviews, and the Toyota CH-R, which does not.
And the Subaru Crosstrek. It's a little bigger than some of the other things I'm mentioning, but I know lots of people that own them and they all seem to love them.
posted by box at 3:32 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I like my Nissan Rogue SV, and when I bought it last year the dealerships seemed the most hungry (i.e. willing to sell off the lot at MSRP rather than have you make a deposit to get on a waiting list). It's pretty roomy, has good fit and finish for the price, driving assist works well (and you don't need the higher trim levels) and it has a 500 mile range if you're gentle with the cruise control.
But you also should look at current Hondas, because there might be dozens of little things that feel right to you, given your experience with the Fit.
posted by credulous at 3:36 PM on January 27, 2023
But you also should look at current Hondas, because there might be dozens of little things that feel right to you, given your experience with the Fit.
posted by credulous at 3:36 PM on January 27, 2023
When I was looking a few years ago, the HRV and the Fit were made on the same platform, the HRV was just taller. That's a little annoying for gas mileage reasons but also new engines are pretty great so it might be a wash. The HRVs I looked at (again, years ago) had the same tardis folding seats the Fit was known for.
posted by Narrow Harbor at 3:50 PM on January 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Narrow Harbor at 3:50 PM on January 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
My Kia Niro is basically a larger fit. It holds so much stuff and it’s great for long trips. Hybrid too.
posted by joycehealy at 3:56 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by joycehealy at 3:56 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I went from a Fit (totaled on a California freeway) to a Prius and have been happy with it.
posted by wintersweet at 4:06 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by wintersweet at 4:06 PM on January 27, 2023
I was going to suggest VW Golf, but the latest version (v8) has touch controls everywhere which are hard to see and use when driving, apparently the next Golf will go back to physical controls.
posted by Lanark at 4:07 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by Lanark at 4:07 PM on January 27, 2023
I lease my Honda Civic, which I chose entirely because it got me SUBSTANTIALLY lower payments without any meaningful restrictions. I get 10k miles per year, which is plenty for me, and if I go over I pay a penalty, they don't take back the car or anything. Probably worth investigating at least to see if you can get a good deal.
posted by epj at 4:14 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by epj at 4:14 PM on January 27, 2023
The Golf Sportwagen was the sweet spot on “Tardis-level room” - we had five people + luggage, sets of dining chairs, skis inside the car with passengers in the back, etc. They discontinued the wagon in 2019 to focus on the more popular SUV line. A regular Golf will not have enough room for the junk in your trunk.
I would size up from the Golf in the VW line of cars, consider Subaru, or go hybrid/electric in a SUV. Unfortunately the non-SUV hatchback is a dying category. I love them too, I’ll miss them.
I wonder about the teens in this story. Is at least one of them yours? Will there be a new driver operating the car? If so, don’t lease! Definitely buy and consider what you will do if there’s an accident.
posted by shock muppet at 4:33 PM on January 27, 2023
I would size up from the Golf in the VW line of cars, consider Subaru, or go hybrid/electric in a SUV. Unfortunately the non-SUV hatchback is a dying category. I love them too, I’ll miss them.
I wonder about the teens in this story. Is at least one of them yours? Will there be a new driver operating the car? If so, don’t lease! Definitely buy and consider what you will do if there’s an accident.
posted by shock muppet at 4:33 PM on January 27, 2023
My wife and I just bought a Chevy Trax which looked a lot smaller from the outside than it feels on the inside. I don't know if you have short person problems but it's one of the few small SUV/car things that I've ever driven that made me feel like I could see and sit comfortably in. It looks like the 2024s are a little bigger than my 2015. It's not a hybrid but we easily get 29mpg on ours and I imagine the newer ones are even better.
Our other car is a Hyundai Ioniq hybrid (which I also love) and it's a little bigger than a Prius (which I found incredibly small), but with kids and equipment I think if I were going to go with a Hyundai I'd try the Sonata hybrid, which was too big for me as a one-person commuter vehicle. (I get 60mpg in my Ioniq though!)
posted by possibilityleft at 4:33 PM on January 27, 2023
Our other car is a Hyundai Ioniq hybrid (which I also love) and it's a little bigger than a Prius (which I found incredibly small), but with kids and equipment I think if I were going to go with a Hyundai I'd try the Sonata hybrid, which was too big for me as a one-person commuter vehicle. (I get 60mpg in my Ioniq though!)
posted by possibilityleft at 4:33 PM on January 27, 2023
Electric...fine, though I def. don't understand how this works, and I'm generally not an early adopter. See also: Los Angeles electricity bills are already astronomical and I don't feel like I have an understanding of how "pay an even bigger electric bill!" is a good solution?
I wouldn’t recommend electric in your case because of the regular long-distance trips, but the higher electric bills are offset by the zero gasoline bills.
posted by hwyengr at 4:35 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I wouldn’t recommend electric in your case because of the regular long-distance trips, but the higher electric bills are offset by the zero gasoline bills.
posted by hwyengr at 4:35 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love my Honda HRV, which has been called a Fit on stilts.
I leased a Hyundai and would never lease again. I was always anxious about doing something they’d charge me for at the end of the lease, like not getting the oil changed enough. Also the saleswoman never told me I’d be out an additional $400 if I didn’t buy the car or lease again. I found out when I read the contract, and by then I was so exhausted from the whole process I just went with it.
posted by FencingGal at 4:38 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I leased a Hyundai and would never lease again. I was always anxious about doing something they’d charge me for at the end of the lease, like not getting the oil changed enough. Also the saleswoman never told me I’d be out an additional $400 if I didn’t buy the car or lease again. I found out when I read the contract, and by then I was so exhausted from the whole process I just went with it.
posted by FencingGal at 4:38 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I see the subaru crosstrek mentioned above but not the impreza, which is an almost identical car cabin to the crosstrek but on a lower chassis (and cheaper). We're on our third impreza now, but the first one was a decision between it and the fit. No regrets!
posted by Tandem Affinity at 5:31 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by Tandem Affinity at 5:31 PM on January 27, 2023
Road trips in an EV are not as much of a hurdle as many people think. The network of DC fast chargers is growing quickly, and newer cars like the Hyundai Ioniq 5 are able to charge very quickly. Still not five minutes fast like pulling off to fill up with gas and hitting the road again, but... 20 to 25 minutes is a real-world 10-80% recharge time. And you've got a good 3-4 hours of range at freeway speeds, which, after that, pretty much anyone should take an alertness break anyway. And many newer EVs have charging station route planning built into the nav system, or you can use your phone.
I don't have a specific vehicle suggestion for you, but wanted to say that an 800-mile trip a few times a year is still quite doable with a pure EV. Take that 25 minute recharge time to stretch your legs, hit the restroom, get a snack, go for a walk around the block to clear your head. Not a bad practice for a road trip in any vehicle.
posted by xedrik at 5:34 PM on January 27, 2023
I don't have a specific vehicle suggestion for you, but wanted to say that an 800-mile trip a few times a year is still quite doable with a pure EV. Take that 25 minute recharge time to stretch your legs, hit the restroom, get a snack, go for a walk around the block to clear your head. Not a bad practice for a road trip in any vehicle.
posted by xedrik at 5:34 PM on January 27, 2023
Response by poster: I really appreciate the answers so far. I'll just add no VWs, please.
(Not that you asked, but I am Jewish and grew up with a grandma who always said "No VWs!! They're Nazi cars!" and I thought she was being completely ridiculous. Then a few years ago I went to Yad Vashem and saw a Nazi Volkswagen with my own eyes, and had a very visceral reaction. Doesn't matter that it's fundamentally not the same company anymore, and I'm not even saying my feelings are rational, but there you go; I can't drive one.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:46 PM on January 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
(Not that you asked, but I am Jewish and grew up with a grandma who always said "No VWs!! They're Nazi cars!" and I thought she was being completely ridiculous. Then a few years ago I went to Yad Vashem and saw a Nazi Volkswagen with my own eyes, and had a very visceral reaction. Doesn't matter that it's fundamentally not the same company anymore, and I'm not even saying my feelings are rational, but there you go; I can't drive one.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:46 PM on January 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'm going to chime in with suggesting a Subaru Impreza or Crosstrek, depending on how you feel about being higher up off the ground with more clearance but adding a little bulk and $$$. We *almost* bought a Crosstrek for our recent car and ended up with a Forester because Reasons but I'd still be really happy with the Crosstrek (or Impreza, but we deal with some pretty beat-up roads on a regular basis so we rationalized the higher clearance of crossover).
posted by Tomorrowful at 5:54 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Tomorrowful at 5:54 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am a Fit owner. This is my second, after having totaled (in insurance speak, I was able to drive the car home...) my last one. I am slightly afraid of being in your shoes, as I am a huge fan of our small city car.
I am glad to see you eliminated VWs of your own accord. I've owned one, and it always had all sorts of little crap breaking. And with the emissions scandal back a few years ago, I wouldn't trust them further than I could throw them. Plus, I prefer Japanese manufacturing philosophies over the German ones.
Most of the ones I would consider today from Japanese manufactures are up-thread, but I would also suggest looking at Ford's offerings (the EcoSport looks cool!), as they have the best manufacturing practices of the US manufactures (though, your very valid reasoning for no VWs might also apply to Fords...I work in manufacturing and I've started amending Henry Ford's name in my head when someone mentions him with "known anti-Semite and Nazi sympathizer" ).
posted by chiefthe at 6:47 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am glad to see you eliminated VWs of your own accord. I've owned one, and it always had all sorts of little crap breaking. And with the emissions scandal back a few years ago, I wouldn't trust them further than I could throw them. Plus, I prefer Japanese manufacturing philosophies over the German ones.
Most of the ones I would consider today from Japanese manufactures are up-thread, but I would also suggest looking at Ford's offerings (the EcoSport looks cool!), as they have the best manufacturing practices of the US manufactures (though, your very valid reasoning for no VWs might also apply to Fords...I work in manufacturing and I've started amending Henry Ford's name in my head when someone mentions him with "known anti-Semite and Nazi sympathizer" ).
posted by chiefthe at 6:47 PM on January 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
We were you last month when our beloved Fit was totaled. We got a Bolt EUV and have no regrets, but we don’t ever take long trips.
posted by Xalf at 7:21 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by Xalf at 7:21 PM on January 27, 2023
Seconding HRV or Mazda 3 (hatchback). Crosstrek is surprisingly opposite of a Fit, in that it looks big on the outside and has less cargo space than you'd think.
posted by unreadyhero at 7:22 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by unreadyhero at 7:22 PM on January 27, 2023
Given the usual reliability of Hondas, I wouldn't be too quick to rule out a dealer-certified 2020 (last model year in North America it seems) Fit.
posted by TimHare at 8:01 PM on January 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by TimHare at 8:01 PM on January 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
The last time I bought a new car (2016) I was looking at Fits but wound up with a Kia Soul and I am still very happy with that purchase. You’ll have to look and see if you think it’ll fit as much stuff in it, but I am regularly surprised at how much I can fit in it. It drives nice, has very comfortable/sturdy interiors for the price point, and it’s unbelievably reliable (I haven’t had to do a single repair in 7 years).
posted by lunasol at 8:09 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by lunasol at 8:09 PM on January 27, 2023
We loved our Fit and currently love our HRV.
posted by PussKillian at 8:28 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by PussKillian at 8:28 PM on January 27, 2023
Los Angeles electricity bills are already astronomical and I don't feel like I have an understanding of how "pay an even bigger electric bill!" is a good solution?
The thing is that burning gasoline to convert the energy contained in it to movement is stupidly inefficient, somewhere around 20%. Converting electricity into motion is much, much more efficient. Where I live, an electric car has energy costs of about 1/3 of a gas car. It would be worse for you, I'd imagine, but still cheaper. Electric cars are also typically cheaper to operate in terms of repairs, maintenance and eventual replacement (there's a lot less to go wrong).
As long as you 800 mile trip has level 3 fast charging on the route, I wouldn't hesitate to get a small electric vehicle (Kia Kona has the best range, but I think the Chevy Bolt or Bolt EUV provide the best value over the Kona or the Nissan Leaf).
posted by ssg at 8:39 PM on January 27, 2023
The thing is that burning gasoline to convert the energy contained in it to movement is stupidly inefficient, somewhere around 20%. Converting electricity into motion is much, much more efficient. Where I live, an electric car has energy costs of about 1/3 of a gas car. It would be worse for you, I'd imagine, but still cheaper. Electric cars are also typically cheaper to operate in terms of repairs, maintenance and eventual replacement (there's a lot less to go wrong).
As long as you 800 mile trip has level 3 fast charging on the route, I wouldn't hesitate to get a small electric vehicle (Kia Kona has the best range, but I think the Chevy Bolt or Bolt EUV provide the best value over the Kona or the Nissan Leaf).
posted by ssg at 8:39 PM on January 27, 2023
The Chevy Bolt EV and EUV are screaming bargains right now, especially since they qualified again for the big tax credit on January 1st. However be aware that some EVs may lose the tax credit in March or April when the IRS completes writing the new rules, so now's a really good time to be looking hard at an EV.
Following on the electric cost explainers above, I illustrate the cost of driving electric as being the equivalent of $1 per gallon gas. THAT is a number that people understand. Now, that's based on charging at home and $0.12 per kWh on our electric bills in my region (US Southeast), and your electricity is far more expensive in California. But it's still cheaper than gas.
Cross-country (literally) roadtrips started being possible in EVs in 2017* when Electrify America started their rollout, and they are still rolling on their ten-year plan. Further, the infrastructure bill of 2021 and the inflation reduction act of 2022 pumped massive amounts of money into roadtrip charging infrastructure, and all that is going to hit in the next year or two. Again, though, roadtrips are already possible NOW -- I just got back from a 1000-mile trip two nights ago. Unless you are going to the middle of North Dakota, roadtrips are no problem, and even if you are, that area will be covered by end of the year :)
* Tesla reached this milestone in 2012, and remains WAY ahead of all the other carmakers in nearly every performance metric. But getting a Tesla comes with a lot of baggage lately and I'll assume you aren't interested in a Tesla.
posted by intermod at 9:08 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Following on the electric cost explainers above, I illustrate the cost of driving electric as being the equivalent of $1 per gallon gas. THAT is a number that people understand. Now, that's based on charging at home and $0.12 per kWh on our electric bills in my region (US Southeast), and your electricity is far more expensive in California. But it's still cheaper than gas.
Cross-country (literally) roadtrips started being possible in EVs in 2017* when Electrify America started their rollout, and they are still rolling on their ten-year plan. Further, the infrastructure bill of 2021 and the inflation reduction act of 2022 pumped massive amounts of money into roadtrip charging infrastructure, and all that is going to hit in the next year or two. Again, though, roadtrips are already possible NOW -- I just got back from a 1000-mile trip two nights ago. Unless you are going to the middle of North Dakota, roadtrips are no problem, and even if you are, that area will be covered by end of the year :)
* Tesla reached this milestone in 2012, and remains WAY ahead of all the other carmakers in nearly every performance metric. But getting a Tesla comes with a lot of baggage lately and I'll assume you aren't interested in a Tesla.
posted by intermod at 9:08 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd also suggest investigating a Chevy Bolt on the strengths of our Volt, which has been fantastic (but was discontinued in 2019, so you can't buy one new).
posted by pullayup at 9:57 PM on January 27, 2023
posted by pullayup at 9:57 PM on January 27, 2023
My friend who wanted to buy a second Fit but couldn't got a Crosstrek instead and is happy with it. If this is a factor for you, it has AWD. Depending on the specific model, it may have adaptive cruise control/automatic braking/lane assist/blind spot alert included. If the teen boys are going to be driving it, the extra safety factor is nice.
I liked the Mazda 3s prior to 2020 that I rented/borrowed but when I was helping my housemate buy a car in 2021, we test drove that year's model and both disliked it. I remember the 2018/9 models being fun to drive (for the price point) and the 2021 just wasn't.
posted by Candleman at 11:27 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I liked the Mazda 3s prior to 2020 that I rented/borrowed but when I was helping my housemate buy a car in 2021, we test drove that year's model and both disliked it. I remember the 2018/9 models being fun to drive (for the price point) and the 2021 just wasn't.
posted by Candleman at 11:27 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't have a specific vehicle suggestion for you, but wanted to say that an 800-mile trip a few times a year is still quite doable with a pure EV. Take that 25 minute recharge time to stretch your legs, hit the restroom, get a snack, go for a walk around the block to clear your head. Not a bad practice for a road trip in any vehicle.
I have a coworker who, twice a year, drives their electric vehicle approximately 2500 miles to visit family (so two 5000 mile roundtrips every year). They say it is completely not an issue, there are adequate charging locations even in the sparsely populated states and it lines up well with needing to take a break anyway. The trip takes them pretty much the same time as it would for someone in a gas vehicle who was taking a safe number of rest stops.
I drive someone else's Crosstrek regularly and have considered one for my next car. Compared to the Fits I have driven, it feels substantially more solid and planted, as well as much quieter and more comfortable. (I am tall and always felt squeezed in a Fit, like I mostly fit but without even half an inch of extra space.) But for someone who loves the Fit, the Crosstrek might feel a bit tall and wide; as suggested, the Impreza might be a better match unless you are regularly driving to trailheads where a few extra inches of ground clearance are needed.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:52 AM on January 28, 2023
I have a coworker who, twice a year, drives their electric vehicle approximately 2500 miles to visit family (so two 5000 mile roundtrips every year). They say it is completely not an issue, there are adequate charging locations even in the sparsely populated states and it lines up well with needing to take a break anyway. The trip takes them pretty much the same time as it would for someone in a gas vehicle who was taking a safe number of rest stops.
I drive someone else's Crosstrek regularly and have considered one for my next car. Compared to the Fits I have driven, it feels substantially more solid and planted, as well as much quieter and more comfortable. (I am tall and always felt squeezed in a Fit, like I mostly fit but without even half an inch of extra space.) But for someone who loves the Fit, the Crosstrek might feel a bit tall and wide; as suggested, the Impreza might be a better match unless you are regularly driving to trailheads where a few extra inches of ground clearance are needed.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:52 AM on January 28, 2023
I love my Impreza hatch (feels huuuge inside) but good gas mileage is not a thing I would claim. I find the city mileage highly disappointing, in fact. But it's a really really great car otherwise!
My previous car was the Mazda3 and the old versions were fun and surprisingly roomy, but the latest body style is more about style than substance and the hatch opening is so aerodynamic-ified that I'm not sure you could get a single sheet of plywood in there.
posted by misskaz at 6:01 AM on January 28, 2023
My previous car was the Mazda3 and the old versions were fun and surprisingly roomy, but the latest body style is more about style than substance and the hatch opening is so aerodynamic-ified that I'm not sure you could get a single sheet of plywood in there.
posted by misskaz at 6:01 AM on January 28, 2023
Is the Suzuki Splash / Vauxhall Agila available in your territory? They are fab.
posted by parmanparman at 9:13 AM on January 28, 2023
posted by parmanparman at 9:13 AM on January 28, 2023
Toyota Yaris, we have three kids and it’s the best car for us.
posted by mathiu at 1:24 PM on January 29, 2023
posted by mathiu at 1:24 PM on January 29, 2023
Response by poster: Appreciate all the suggestions. I'm still (still!) in a complete runaround with my insurance, so I haven't been able to move forward on anything yet.
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:01 PM on February 27, 2023
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:01 PM on February 27, 2023
burning gasoline to convert the energy contained in it to movement is stupidly inefficient, somewhere around 20%.
Most gas car engines are currently around 40%. Nissan thinks it's found a way to increase that number to 50%
The efficiency of Gas power stations has improved over the last 20 years from around 40% to 62% in the latest designs.
Electric cars make sense when you have a clean energy source, but in countries where the electricity comes from gas or coal they are probably worse than a gas car because the electric car costs more to build and much more to recycle at the end of its life.
posted by Lanark at 4:17 AM on March 3, 2023
Most gas car engines are currently around 40%. Nissan thinks it's found a way to increase that number to 50%
The efficiency of Gas power stations has improved over the last 20 years from around 40% to 62% in the latest designs.
Electric cars make sense when you have a clean energy source, but in countries where the electricity comes from gas or coal they are probably worse than a gas car because the electric car costs more to build and much more to recycle at the end of its life.
posted by Lanark at 4:17 AM on March 3, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by nickggully at 2:41 PM on January 27, 2023 [1 favorite]