What makes a music producer’s sound recognizable?
January 18, 2023 6:56 AM Subscribe
While listening to the Panic! At the Disco album, “Viva Las Vengeance,” I thought to myself, “This reminds me of the ‘That Thing You Do’ soundtrack, but I’m not sure why.” Lo and behold, both albums are written/produced by Mike Viola. So that explains why, but not how did my brain do that? I’m not knowledgeable about music production at all, and I’m really curious to know what I was hearing in order to make the connection.
Best answer: I don't know enough about music production to explain, either, but this made the rounds of the Internet last month and you might find it amusing/relevant: "I'm able to instantly detect if Jack Antonoff worked on a song due to a visceral hatred of his production style."
He talks a little here about some of the characteristics he notices.
posted by fire, water, earth, air at 7:51 AM on January 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
He talks a little here about some of the characteristics he notices.
posted by fire, water, earth, air at 7:51 AM on January 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
Best answer: This seems like something that can vary quite a bit based on music genres.
Like, Phil Spector productions are recognizable because everything sounds really big (doubled or tripled parts, large ensembles, added strings or brass, heavy echo and reverb, etc.), but Prince Paul productions are recognizable because of his expansive taste in samples, drum and scratch fills, and additional percussion over the loops.
posted by box at 8:18 AM on January 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Like, Phil Spector productions are recognizable because everything sounds really big (doubled or tripled parts, large ensembles, added strings or brass, heavy echo and reverb, etc.), but Prince Paul productions are recognizable because of his expansive taste in samples, drum and scratch fills, and additional percussion over the loops.
posted by box at 8:18 AM on January 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you’re interested in this topic in general, the podcast “Switched on Pop” dives into this. I really liked the analysis they did on the ABBA and Britney Spears episodes.
posted by lovableiago at 8:24 AM on January 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by lovableiago at 8:24 AM on January 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: It's going to depend on each producer, but what you're essentially asking is "what is production?", and that's a pretty big question. In general, it's going to be a combination of what you might call environment, equipment, knob twiddling, and add-ins. Add-ins (i.e., fills, backing parts, etc.) are probably what you'll notice most as a listener - the "hype sounds" pseudostrabismus is referring to. And certainly environment and equipment matter - that's why Jack White is so picky about studios and gear. But really, it's the knob-twiddling that really sets producers apart, and it's a pretty big category. I'm talking about mixing (how loud the various instruments sound relative to each other), EQ, effects (reverb, etc.), doubling, quantizing (or not), and all that.
There's a wealth of production information on Youtube. Two that I like are Rick Beato' What Makes This Song Great series and Reverb's What's That Sound series. Beato (often recommended here) is both a former producer and a music theory teacher, so different episodes focus on different things. The videos about fairly straightforward mainstream rock songs tend to go into more detail about the production, since they're not as interesting from a music theory perspective. The one that stands out off the top of my head is Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down", where I learned that the drums are a combination of a live drummer and a sampler/sequencer. Reverb, as the series name suggest, tries to recreate the production of a specific record. I thought the Motown episode was particularly helpful because of the sheer amount of instrumentation on Motown songs - you'll learn about multiple guitars, bass, piano, drums, horns, lead vocals, backing vocals, etc. And then once you watch a couple of each you'll start getting algorithmed other good stuff about production.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:33 AM on January 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
There's a wealth of production information on Youtube. Two that I like are Rick Beato' What Makes This Song Great series and Reverb's What's That Sound series. Beato (often recommended here) is both a former producer and a music theory teacher, so different episodes focus on different things. The videos about fairly straightforward mainstream rock songs tend to go into more detail about the production, since they're not as interesting from a music theory perspective. The one that stands out off the top of my head is Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down", where I learned that the drums are a combination of a live drummer and a sampler/sequencer. Reverb, as the series name suggest, tries to recreate the production of a specific record. I thought the Motown episode was particularly helpful because of the sheer amount of instrumentation on Motown songs - you'll learn about multiple guitars, bass, piano, drums, horns, lead vocals, backing vocals, etc. And then once you watch a couple of each you'll start getting algorithmed other good stuff about production.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:33 AM on January 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
I don't think this is production. I can look at paintings or drawings and connect them back to the artist, read short stories or books and know who did them. I've read technical documents and immediately recognized the author. One of my kids does origami and I can tell stuff he's folded from stuff I have.
In a complex thing, where there are an immense number of different ways to do it, people have small idiosyncrasies and an overall style which another person can recognize without knowing why. Sometimes there are small things which give it away, but often it's the overall feel. Our ability to recognize this kind of thing has been honed by evolution, and I'm sure that's taken an immense span of time.
If you're recognizing production values I'd imagine that you're not picking up specifics but the overall style of the producer, superimposed on the style of the artist. People are that good at this.
As for how that works, I don't think it's at all well understood. There are subtle patterns in everything, but it seems that the mechanisms which pick them out don't always tell us what they are. Our minds work very well, but we don't yet understand how.
I suppose this is similar to neural networks, which isn't surprising because I believe they're an attempt to emulate certain features of our minds, and having go them to function we don't know exactly what they're doing.
Human beings surround our similar processes with context and common sense, but they're still kind of opaque to us.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 10:11 AM on January 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
In a complex thing, where there are an immense number of different ways to do it, people have small idiosyncrasies and an overall style which another person can recognize without knowing why. Sometimes there are small things which give it away, but often it's the overall feel. Our ability to recognize this kind of thing has been honed by evolution, and I'm sure that's taken an immense span of time.
If you're recognizing production values I'd imagine that you're not picking up specifics but the overall style of the producer, superimposed on the style of the artist. People are that good at this.
As for how that works, I don't think it's at all well understood. There are subtle patterns in everything, but it seems that the mechanisms which pick them out don't always tell us what they are. Our minds work very well, but we don't yet understand how.
I suppose this is similar to neural networks, which isn't surprising because I believe they're an attempt to emulate certain features of our minds, and having go them to function we don't know exactly what they're doing.
Human beings surround our similar processes with context and common sense, but they're still kind of opaque to us.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 10:11 AM on January 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
It may be correlation rather than (or in addition to) causation — Urie may have gravitated to Viola (who’s worked with him for a while, actually) due to shared love of that kind of amped-up modernized power pop sound.
And I would put a fair amount of weight on songwriting as well as production here. I haven’t really listened to TTYD! or P!atD, but I’ve listened to a lot of his ‘90s/‘00s output with the Candy Butchers (after seeing an early version of the band do a phenomenal acoustic set as openers for They Might Be Giants in Boston in I think 1996) — and his sound/style is VERY consistent.
Also, Viola actually sang lead on “That Thing You Do!”, and he may well have played some / all of the other instruments too — the whole fictional-band shtick means the “real” credits for the song may not be knowable. And his credits on Viva Las Vengeance also extend to background vocals and various instruments, according to Wikipedia. So you might even be picking up commonalities that way. (His Graham Parker-style vocal inflections are at least for me pretty easily identifiable….)
posted by sesquipedalia at 1:45 PM on January 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
And I would put a fair amount of weight on songwriting as well as production here. I haven’t really listened to TTYD! or P!atD, but I’ve listened to a lot of his ‘90s/‘00s output with the Candy Butchers (after seeing an early version of the band do a phenomenal acoustic set as openers for They Might Be Giants in Boston in I think 1996) — and his sound/style is VERY consistent.
Also, Viola actually sang lead on “That Thing You Do!”, and he may well have played some / all of the other instruments too — the whole fictional-band shtick means the “real” credits for the song may not be knowable. And his credits on Viva Las Vengeance also extend to background vocals and various instruments, according to Wikipedia. So you might even be picking up commonalities that way. (His Graham Parker-style vocal inflections are at least for me pretty easily identifiable….)
posted by sesquipedalia at 1:45 PM on January 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. Gotta say my favorite response is kevinbelt’s what you're essentially asking is "what is production?" because it made me realize that I have an entire rabbit hole to go down and learn about now, and I bet it’s really going to increase my enjoyment of music!
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 7:54 AM on January 19, 2023
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 7:54 AM on January 19, 2023
I don't have anything substantial to directly answer your question, but I just want to nth the recommendation for Rick Beato's YouTube channel. I have a minimum of formal music education. I don't always understand what he is saying, but I adore the enthusiasm that he brings to the subject.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 11:29 AM on January 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 11:29 AM on January 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
To elaborate a bit on what kevinbelt said about environment/equipment/etc., there are a lot of elements you might be picking up on, but here are a few that first come to mind:
-- A producer might track the instruments largely the same way in the songs that stick out to you. How many mics to use on drums, and where to put them; where/at what angles the mic(s) are pointing at the guitar amp/cabinet (and which amp they use, when some producers have more power/knowledge than the band); maybe using the same microphone for vocalists on different projects ... some producers have their style and favorite gear.
-- The room(s) where things are recorded have different characteristics based on shape, size, and acoustic treatment. If a producer always wanted to record in the same studio, drums and vocals especially could have some of their sound in common.
-- Arrangement can play a role too; a producer might want to double- or even quadruple-track the rhythm guitars, pan them the same way each time.
-- The biggest factor to me is the equipment -- both analog onboard gear in real studios and the effects/plugins that both pro and amateur producers use. EQ and compression are the top ones, I'd say. If a producer always likes to EQ the cymbals a certain way, you'd likely register that as part of their sound. Compression comes in a bunch of strengths and flavors, so that can be part of some producers' signatures. And the mixing levels are part of it too; if they mix those cymbals higher or lower than most commercial music, that'll stand out. I think they way a producer mixes the bass guitar and kick drum also can serve as a sonic signature.
posted by troywestfield at 2:20 PM on January 19, 2023
-- A producer might track the instruments largely the same way in the songs that stick out to you. How many mics to use on drums, and where to put them; where/at what angles the mic(s) are pointing at the guitar amp/cabinet (and which amp they use, when some producers have more power/knowledge than the band); maybe using the same microphone for vocalists on different projects ... some producers have their style and favorite gear.
-- The room(s) where things are recorded have different characteristics based on shape, size, and acoustic treatment. If a producer always wanted to record in the same studio, drums and vocals especially could have some of their sound in common.
-- Arrangement can play a role too; a producer might want to double- or even quadruple-track the rhythm guitars, pan them the same way each time.
-- The biggest factor to me is the equipment -- both analog onboard gear in real studios and the effects/plugins that both pro and amateur producers use. EQ and compression are the top ones, I'd say. If a producer always likes to EQ the cymbals a certain way, you'd likely register that as part of their sound. Compression comes in a bunch of strengths and flavors, so that can be part of some producers' signatures. And the mixing levels are part of it too; if they mix those cymbals higher or lower than most commercial music, that'll stand out. I think they way a producer mixes the bass guitar and kick drum also can serve as a sonic signature.
posted by troywestfield at 2:20 PM on January 19, 2023
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posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:40 AM on January 18, 2023 [2 favorites]