Who should I ask about DIY house renovation planning
January 16, 2023 8:53 AM Subscribe
I'm a novice that's slowly renovating my 1979-built town home. I have tools, willingness, workspace, time, and youtube, but I'm clearly out of my depth on some things. As the task list grows beyond my comprehension, I could use someone with experience to tell me what's important and what could wait. I'm glad to pay them for their time and knowledge... who are they?
My day-job boss is a house flipper, and I'll be asking him, but there can be strange dynamics there, so other options would be appreciated.
My day-job boss is a house flipper, and I'll be asking him, but there can be strange dynamics there, so other options would be appreciated.
It really depends on what you mean. The best things to renovate are kitchens and bathrooms by far. Everything else is far more iffy. However, you should work ground up, ie: make sure the plumbing is good, AC etc works fine. Then make sure things are in well-maintained shape. Then worry about the lastest finishes.
I personally don't find home inspectors to be that great, my list from my home inspector was equally superficial considering he only spent one day. Instead, ask a realtor because if you are asking about renovations, they know what the current market is and what people are looking for.
IMO though, the best way is just live there, see what pisses you off, what you want changed, and what you like, and then slowly work though the list.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:18 AM on January 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
I personally don't find home inspectors to be that great, my list from my home inspector was equally superficial considering he only spent one day. Instead, ask a realtor because if you are asking about renovations, they know what the current market is and what people are looking for.
IMO though, the best way is just live there, see what pisses you off, what you want changed, and what you like, and then slowly work though the list.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:18 AM on January 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
It really depends on your objective. Are you hoping to add value when you sell in a few years? If so, I’d still avoid the house flipper, because their priorities are a little off, but I would ask a realtor. They’ll have an idea of what the market is looking for and can advise which projects will be cost-effective. They’ll also go a little deeper than superficial, because they know that houses with cracked foundations or not-up-to-code wiring have a harder time selling.
If you’re trying to make it “nicer”, a general contractor might be helpful, especially if they know you’re not actually planning to hire them to do the work. Hire them as a consultant, or even better, make friends with one and get their thoughts off the clock.
Some of the prioritization will depend on what economists call the discount rate - how you value money today vs in the future. Replacing your furnace will be a much bigger cash expenditure than removing wallpaper, but over time a more efficient furnace will save you money, whereas having painted walls instead of wallpapered ones won’t.
You probably don’t need to hire a home inspector, because unless you’ve had the house for quite some time, you’ve already hired one when you bought it. (I’m assuming you didn’t buy the house when it was new construction in 1979 and just decided to started renovating now a half-century later.) That report should still be valid today.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:44 AM on January 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you’re trying to make it “nicer”, a general contractor might be helpful, especially if they know you’re not actually planning to hire them to do the work. Hire them as a consultant, or even better, make friends with one and get their thoughts off the clock.
Some of the prioritization will depend on what economists call the discount rate - how you value money today vs in the future. Replacing your furnace will be a much bigger cash expenditure than removing wallpaper, but over time a more efficient furnace will save you money, whereas having painted walls instead of wallpapered ones won’t.
You probably don’t need to hire a home inspector, because unless you’ve had the house for quite some time, you’ve already hired one when you bought it. (I’m assuming you didn’t buy the house when it was new construction in 1979 and just decided to started renovating now a half-century later.) That report should still be valid today.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:44 AM on January 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Home inspector
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 9:53 AM on January 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 9:53 AM on January 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Prioritize things that, if not done, could lead to damage or health issues. For example, fix that leaky roof, replace any wood with signs of termite or water damage, check that your foundation is intact and your chimney is lined. if you have any gas appliances make sure that they're venting properly. Fix dripping faucets and lights that flicker, grout that is crumbly, etc.
Next look at items that make your house more energy efficient. Insulate attic spaces, replace single-glazed windows, upgrade the HVAC or water heater.
Then do the things that cause regular annoyances, like doors that don't shut properly, lights that are too dim, lose hinges or doorknobs, squeaky floors, etc.
For the rest of it take a "top down" approach: renovate ceilings and overhead light fixtures, then trim, then walls, and then floors.
Finally you get to the furnishings: curtains, rugs, etc.
Good luck!
posted by mezzanayne at 10:41 AM on January 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
Next look at items that make your house more energy efficient. Insulate attic spaces, replace single-glazed windows, upgrade the HVAC or water heater.
Then do the things that cause regular annoyances, like doors that don't shut properly, lights that are too dim, lose hinges or doorknobs, squeaky floors, etc.
For the rest of it take a "top down" approach: renovate ceilings and overhead light fixtures, then trim, then walls, and then floors.
Finally you get to the furnishings: curtains, rugs, etc.
Good luck!
posted by mezzanayne at 10:41 AM on January 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
Best answer: The kind of home inspector that you are looking for is a crusty person in their 60s or so, who was a general contractor or carpenter as their primary career, and now does home inspections as a side job in retirement. You don't want a home inspector who took a quick certification course and doesn't have any other significant experience in the residential construction trade outside of being an inspector. You want the kind of person who has had the joy of opening up drywall and seeing...all kinds of terrible things. This kind of person can actually tell you what you need to do to bring your house up to snuff, beyond the surface inspection that many house inspectors provide.
posted by rockindata at 10:41 AM on January 16, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 10:41 AM on January 16, 2023 [15 favorites]
Response by poster: For a few more details: I've been in the house for 20 years or so. Having recently been diagnosed with ADHD and now taking meds, I feel like I can do a better job than I have in the past. Barring a lottery win, I'm planning on staying in the house for a decade or more.
Over the years, I've gotten a lot of the fundamentals: new roof, siding, windows, doors, furnace, water heater, AC. I'm now getting caught up in the interior spaces and panicking a little bit at the level of disaster that is no longer lurking behind the walls. I think a former owner was a construction worker who renovated with leftover bits and bobs.
Thanks all!
posted by SunSnork at 10:54 AM on January 16, 2023
Over the years, I've gotten a lot of the fundamentals: new roof, siding, windows, doors, furnace, water heater, AC. I'm now getting caught up in the interior spaces and panicking a little bit at the level of disaster that is no longer lurking behind the walls. I think a former owner was a construction worker who renovated with leftover bits and bobs.
Thanks all!
posted by SunSnork at 10:54 AM on January 16, 2023
Best answer: One thing to consider, which a GC-consultant or properly qualified inspector can tell you about, is how the grandfathering rules work in your jurisdiction. That is to say, if you replace Item X as part of your renovation, will you be required to bring it (or adjacent things) up to current building code?
For example, if you change your kitchen, will you be required to meet current electrical codes for the number, capacity, and location of all the circuits in the kitchen? Sometimes you are, sometimes you aren't, but that kind of thing can get pretty expensive pretty fast (for example, if you had to upgrade your kitchen wiring, you could run out of circuit space in your main box, requiring the installation of a new electrical panel, which may then trigger upgrading to 200 amp service as well as adding arc fault interrupters, and so on).
Similarly, if I ever do any repair on my fireplace which exceeds $10K, my city requires me to convert it to a gas or electric fireplace rather than wood-burning. As-is, it's grandfathered in (and an increasingly rare feature).
These sorts of rules, if they exist in your jurisdiction, may become the main drivers behind your sequence planning.
[Side-tip: any time you open up a wall, take a photo before you close it back up -- it's really nice to be able to go back and see exactly where the wires, pipes, etc. all are]
posted by aramaic at 10:57 AM on January 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
For example, if you change your kitchen, will you be required to meet current electrical codes for the number, capacity, and location of all the circuits in the kitchen? Sometimes you are, sometimes you aren't, but that kind of thing can get pretty expensive pretty fast (for example, if you had to upgrade your kitchen wiring, you could run out of circuit space in your main box, requiring the installation of a new electrical panel, which may then trigger upgrading to 200 amp service as well as adding arc fault interrupters, and so on).
Similarly, if I ever do any repair on my fireplace which exceeds $10K, my city requires me to convert it to a gas or electric fireplace rather than wood-burning. As-is, it's grandfathered in (and an increasingly rare feature).
These sorts of rules, if they exist in your jurisdiction, may become the main drivers behind your sequence planning.
[Side-tip: any time you open up a wall, take a photo before you close it back up -- it's really nice to be able to go back and see exactly where the wires, pipes, etc. all are]
posted by aramaic at 10:57 AM on January 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
I have a house of a similar age that's in need of work. I'm relying on my home inspector's report for what's out of code and near end-of-life. I was also able to determine or estimate how old my appliances are, and work out their life expectancy. Between the two, I now have a spreadsheet with a rough estimate of when parts of the house will wear out, and replacement costs.
If you have popcorn ceilings: updating them will get much more expensive if they have asbestos, which is possible in a house that age. You can buy a test to mail in a sample. You can also gamble that you might move out before you get around to the ceilings.
Making updates based on what bugs you is a good way to plan. How much disruption the update will cause is another. My house has popcorn ceiling and epic wall texture. I looked up the process for updating those and it was enough of a headache that I decided to wait. Floors, ditto.
Another factor is expense - most of my budget is still going towards big-ticket fundamentals, but I've also been doing DIY/cheap things, like painting and handles and so forth. Cabinet handles aren't important but they are a significant improvement for me.
posted by mersen at 2:49 PM on January 16, 2023
If you have popcorn ceilings: updating them will get much more expensive if they have asbestos, which is possible in a house that age. You can buy a test to mail in a sample. You can also gamble that you might move out before you get around to the ceilings.
Making updates based on what bugs you is a good way to plan. How much disruption the update will cause is another. My house has popcorn ceiling and epic wall texture. I looked up the process for updating those and it was enough of a headache that I decided to wait. Floors, ditto.
Another factor is expense - most of my budget is still going towards big-ticket fundamentals, but I've also been doing DIY/cheap things, like painting and handles and so forth. Cabinet handles aren't important but they are a significant improvement for me.
posted by mersen at 2:49 PM on January 16, 2023
Cabinet handles aren't important but they are a significant improvement for me
...this relates to another point I failed to make -- once major potential-disaster items, or major cost-saving items, are dealt with move on to consider what things you use in your daily life and then work to improve those things as much as you can afford.
So, in the case of cabinet handles, get ones that feel right because you're going to be handling them daily for the rest of your time in the house. Similarly, buy quality door handles. You touch these things all the time, and believe it or not your fingers will subtly tell you the truth of their quality every time you use them. Put a Baldwin doorknob on your front door and you're gonna feel subtly shittier every time you use it. Buy shitty pot-metal cabinet pulls and slowly slowly in the background they'll make everything around them feel cheaper as well (unless you personally made the cabinet pulls, in which case you'll be reminded of your crafting triumph and not the crappy metal. It's all relative.)
Really. It's weird, but it works -- make your high-touch items the best you can cheerfully afford, and you'll feel better about the place. High-quality doors, for example, just feel and sound better in daily use than some pressed masonite junk. They may not seem worth it at the time, but daaaang do those small impressions add up over the years.
posted by aramaic at 3:26 PM on January 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
...this relates to another point I failed to make -- once major potential-disaster items, or major cost-saving items, are dealt with move on to consider what things you use in your daily life and then work to improve those things as much as you can afford.
So, in the case of cabinet handles, get ones that feel right because you're going to be handling them daily for the rest of your time in the house. Similarly, buy quality door handles. You touch these things all the time, and believe it or not your fingers will subtly tell you the truth of their quality every time you use them. Put a Baldwin doorknob on your front door and you're gonna feel subtly shittier every time you use it. Buy shitty pot-metal cabinet pulls and slowly slowly in the background they'll make everything around them feel cheaper as well (unless you personally made the cabinet pulls, in which case you'll be reminded of your crafting triumph and not the crappy metal. It's all relative.)
Really. It's weird, but it works -- make your high-touch items the best you can cheerfully afford, and you'll feel better about the place. High-quality doors, for example, just feel and sound better in daily use than some pressed masonite junk. They may not seem worth it at the time, but daaaang do those small impressions add up over the years.
posted by aramaic at 3:26 PM on January 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'd agree you shouldn't HIRE a professional flipper, but I'd bet your day-job boss does have plenty of valuable knowledge on process and pricing that would be useful to you.
That said, it's a little unclear how extensive a reno you're attempting (when I hear "reno" I think that you're trying to comprehensively update the place for all reasonable aesthetic and practical purposes - not necessarily tear down every wall to studs, but fully address all necessary and convenience issues that may come up in the next 20-30 years. But then your comment about wanting to know what's important and what can wait implies to me that you are taking this piece by piece, rather than full-throatedly attempting to "renovate").
If you're just trying to get or keep the place up to snuff, a well-qualified inspector is probably a good bet, potentially supplemented by an electrician or structural engineer or plumber or whatever IF you have reason to suspect the electrical system or foundation or plumbing needs attention. If you're trying to bring the townhome up to some generally accepted standard of quality, I'd seek out a general contractor who has done a decent amount of work in your area (I'd be proactive in explaining that you're willing to pay well for their consult - they're likely used to offering free quotes but bidding only on projects worth their time, so you'd want to be clear that you're willing to pay for their advice on its own). I base this off my experience with a contractor who partially renovated my partner's bathroom (they had done other stuff in the townhouse before and was a regular on this block) and, even though they didn't generally offer design advice, was able to tell us that everyone in the neighborhood was installing shower niches and using this particular classy metal strip for their tile edging trim and whatnot.
posted by exutima at 10:03 PM on January 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
That said, it's a little unclear how extensive a reno you're attempting (when I hear "reno" I think that you're trying to comprehensively update the place for all reasonable aesthetic and practical purposes - not necessarily tear down every wall to studs, but fully address all necessary and convenience issues that may come up in the next 20-30 years. But then your comment about wanting to know what's important and what can wait implies to me that you are taking this piece by piece, rather than full-throatedly attempting to "renovate").
If you're just trying to get or keep the place up to snuff, a well-qualified inspector is probably a good bet, potentially supplemented by an electrician or structural engineer or plumber or whatever IF you have reason to suspect the electrical system or foundation or plumbing needs attention. If you're trying to bring the townhome up to some generally accepted standard of quality, I'd seek out a general contractor who has done a decent amount of work in your area (I'd be proactive in explaining that you're willing to pay well for their consult - they're likely used to offering free quotes but bidding only on projects worth their time, so you'd want to be clear that you're willing to pay for their advice on its own). I base this off my experience with a contractor who partially renovated my partner's bathroom (they had done other stuff in the townhouse before and was a regular on this block) and, even though they didn't generally offer design advice, was able to tell us that everyone in the neighborhood was installing shower niches and using this particular classy metal strip for their tile edging trim and whatnot.
posted by exutima at 10:03 PM on January 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
If your exterior is good, I'd consider an interior designer, especially if endlessly reviewing other people's pics makes you anxious.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on January 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on January 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
everyone in the neighborhood was installing shower niches
Everyone should install a shower niche (who has the budget to remodel their shower). The fact that showers were built with tiny ledge (or mine, just a soapdish) is yet another thing that shows builders didn't even ask other people what they might need in a shower for 50 solid years, hence why I'm not sure you should ask someone in the trades.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on January 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Everyone should install a shower niche (who has the budget to remodel their shower). The fact that showers were built with tiny ledge (or mine, just a soapdish) is yet another thing that shows builders didn't even ask other people what they might need in a shower for 50 solid years, hence why I'm not sure you should ask someone in the trades.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on January 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
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Instead, I’d hire a home inspector, the kind you’d hire to check out a house before you bought it. This is the kind of knowledge they have. Their focus is on structural stability, safety, looking down the road to prevent problems via maintenance, etc.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:06 AM on January 16, 2023 [9 favorites]