How to buy a laptop that can run Windows XP (not a typo)
December 20, 2022 12:37 AM Subscribe
My mom's Windows XP laptop is nearly dead. She uses it for very specialized industry software that doesn't work on newer versions - I've tried. The software company stopped supporting this too. I have all the original CDs.
I'm fine with buying a laptop from eBay. But... how do I find the newest / lightest laptop that I can reformat and reinstall this 2004 era software? (Don't worry, this will almost never be connected to the internet. She has an iPad for that.)
Why not consider getting a new laptop and then run the legacy applications in some sort of virtual machine such as https://www.vmware.com/products/workstation-player.html
?
posted by foleypt at 2:29 AM on December 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
?
posted by foleypt at 2:29 AM on December 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
You can also try out a virtual machine on a current computer that you have and see how well it works, before buying a new one.
posted by trig at 2:40 AM on December 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by trig at 2:40 AM on December 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yes, it seems like a perfect use case for a virtual machine. I like VirtualBox for this kind of thing.
posted by Puppy McSock at 2:59 AM on December 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Puppy McSock at 2:59 AM on December 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
If you're trying the virtual machine route, there's a very handy trimmed down version of Windows XP on the Internet Archive, which I've found to be perfect for VMs where you just need a working XP install to be able to run some specific bit of software, and don't want to waste a load of disk space.
You just download the ISO file (100MB), and your virtual machine software (e.g. Virtualbox or VMware) can present that as a CD to the virtual machine so that you can install XP. The same file also be burned to an actual CD if you need to install a minimal XP on a physical 2004 era laptop.
posted by automatronic at 3:41 AM on December 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
You just download the ISO file (100MB), and your virtual machine software (e.g. Virtualbox or VMware) can present that as a CD to the virtual machine so that you can install XP. The same file also be burned to an actual CD if you need to install a minimal XP on a physical 2004 era laptop.
posted by automatronic at 3:41 AM on December 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
If you do need an actual laptop, you can probably go for something from a few years after 2004. You'd likely find something thinner and lighter, but still able to run XP. Windows 7 came out in 2009, but XP was so ubiquitous in businesses that it was probably well after 2012 before there was any new hardware for which manufacturers didn't provide drivers that worked on XP. There are some pretty thin/light Toshiba machines from 2010-11 like the 13.3" R830. They shipped with Windows 7 by then but I expect they'd run XP just fine, and would be a lot nicer to use than some brick from 2004. And they go very cheap on eBay these days.
posted by automatronic at 4:03 AM on December 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by automatronic at 4:03 AM on December 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think this is a solvable problem without resorting to legacy hardware. Nobody in this industry does backwards-compatibility and long term support better than Microsoft, not even IBM, and it's not close.
Before you try the Virtualbox approach: Windows has long had a legacy compatibility mode option under the hood. It works well. That, in combination the tools provided by the Microsoft Sysinternals suite can let you keep some extremely old applications running far longer than you'd expect. ( It isn't always necessary, but the idea of that step is to use Filemon and Regmon to grant applications permissions to read and write from parts of the system that Windows modernization has progressively restricted.)
This is... not particularly easy, and you need to be meticulous about it, but it's achievable and it gets you the benefits of modern hardware and security updates while keeping the old software running.
If you go this route, document all the changes you needed to make so that you can refer back to them in a few years.
posted by mhoye at 5:45 AM on December 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
Before you try the Virtualbox approach: Windows has long had a legacy compatibility mode option under the hood. It works well. That, in combination the tools provided by the Microsoft Sysinternals suite can let you keep some extremely old applications running far longer than you'd expect. ( It isn't always necessary, but the idea of that step is to use Filemon and Regmon to grant applications permissions to read and write from parts of the system that Windows modernization has progressively restricted.)
This is... not particularly easy, and you need to be meticulous about it, but it's achievable and it gets you the benefits of modern hardware and security updates while keeping the old software running.
If you go this route, document all the changes you needed to make so that you can refer back to them in a few years.
posted by mhoye at 5:45 AM on December 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
Used thinkpads are easy to find on ebay if you don't want to do a virtual machine or compatibility mode. Thinkpads run basically forever and parts are easy to find. It's nice to keep useful things out of the waste stream. Reddit has a thinkpad fangroup. Newer machines will have new components for which XP won't have drivers, so can't recognize. also, sent MefiMail.
posted by theora55 at 6:41 AM on December 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 6:41 AM on December 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
VM, VM, VM. Buy a brand new computer and set up a virtual machine. I do this for software required to maintain legacy control systems that only runs on XP. The additional benefit of doing it this way is that if/when the new laptop goes kaput, you can simply copy the VM instance onto any other computer that has the VM suite installed and be back up and running in minutes rather than having to buy new hardware and go through the re-install process and potentially lose valuable data. (I use VMware because that is what my company uses and it works).
Buying an old computer means that you will be constantly dealing with the issues of degrading hardware that you are already having to deal with. Setting up the VM will definitely have a learning curve, but it is worth it to help future-proof.
When you get a new computer I would recommend a few things.
1. Get a decent multicore processor, Intel i5-level or higher with at least 2-cores, 4+ would be better.
2. Get more RAM that you would normally consider. I have run VMs on 8GB of RAM and it will work, but it can be somewhat frustrating depending on the memory intensity of the application you are running. I would recommend 16GB which in this day and age is not that expensive.
You need these because essentially you will be running 2 computers on 1 set of hardware so they have to share resources.
posted by dudemanlives at 6:42 AM on December 20, 2022
Buying an old computer means that you will be constantly dealing with the issues of degrading hardware that you are already having to deal with. Setting up the VM will definitely have a learning curve, but it is worth it to help future-proof.
When you get a new computer I would recommend a few things.
1. Get a decent multicore processor, Intel i5-level or higher with at least 2-cores, 4+ would be better.
2. Get more RAM that you would normally consider. I have run VMs on 8GB of RAM and it will work, but it can be somewhat frustrating depending on the memory intensity of the application you are running. I would recommend 16GB which in this day and age is not that expensive.
You need these because essentially you will be running 2 computers on 1 set of hardware so they have to share resources.
posted by dudemanlives at 6:42 AM on December 20, 2022
Thinkpads run basically forever and parts are easy to find
Generally I'm a huge fan of the used-thinkpad approach, but I will say that chargers (which, unlike the actual computers, are not long-lasting in my experience) and batteries have always been a serious issue for me. The chargers for thinkpads from the era we're talking about are like 3 generations behind, so even finding genuine used ones these days is difficult. Also, the one part I've had fail more than any other is the actual charging port, and while the part might not be hard to find the repair in some models is very complex. So I would only intentionally buy a thinkpad from that era if my plan was to keep it in one location and not have it be portable, to reduce the wear on the charger and port.
posted by trig at 6:59 AM on December 20, 2022
Generally I'm a huge fan of the used-thinkpad approach, but I will say that chargers (which, unlike the actual computers, are not long-lasting in my experience) and batteries have always been a serious issue for me. The chargers for thinkpads from the era we're talking about are like 3 generations behind, so even finding genuine used ones these days is difficult. Also, the one part I've had fail more than any other is the actual charging port, and while the part might not be hard to find the repair in some models is very complex. So I would only intentionally buy a thinkpad from that era if my plan was to keep it in one location and not have it be portable, to reduce the wear on the charger and port.
posted by trig at 6:59 AM on December 20, 2022
To repeat Trig's point: modern Thinkpads are not the Thinkpads you remember.
posted by mhoye at 10:24 AM on December 20, 2022
posted by mhoye at 10:24 AM on December 20, 2022
I would encourage you to explore the virtualization route encouraged in previous posts.
posted by kbanas at 10:28 AM on December 20, 2022
posted by kbanas at 10:28 AM on December 20, 2022
(I don't think that was my point, but anyway, yes to trying virtualization before anything ;-)
posted by trig at 10:38 AM on December 20, 2022
posted by trig at 10:38 AM on December 20, 2022
If you're considering the virtualization route, make sure your "new" laptop has full hardware support for virtualization - it'll really improve performance. Hardware-assisted virtualization requires both CPU and BIOS support. I had a circa 2010 laptop with CPU-supported virtualization, but BIOS couldn't enable it, leaving me with unacceptably slow virtual machines.
For candidate Windows 10 PCs, you easily can tell if virtualization is already enabled under the Performance tab of the Task Manager, as shown in this answers.microsoft.com post.
posted by kgander at 11:46 AM on December 20, 2022
For candidate Windows 10 PCs, you easily can tell if virtualization is already enabled under the Performance tab of the Task Manager, as shown in this answers.microsoft.com post.
posted by kgander at 11:46 AM on December 20, 2022
To repeat Trig's point: modern Thinkpads are not the Thinkpads you remember.
Up until the X220 Thinkpads ARE the Thinkpads you remember. Those are also sufficiently close to the XP era that they'll likely run XP without much fussing, and still new enough that they won't be dying of old age anytime soon.
(current laptop is an X201s, now 11 years old. Still runs fine but can't tell how well it would run XP; it's Debian 10.6)
posted by Stoneshop at 11:55 AM on December 20, 2022
Up until the X220 Thinkpads ARE the Thinkpads you remember. Those are also sufficiently close to the XP era that they'll likely run XP without much fussing, and still new enough that they won't be dying of old age anytime soon.
(current laptop is an X201s, now 11 years old. Still runs fine but can't tell how well it would run XP; it's Debian 10.6)
posted by Stoneshop at 11:55 AM on December 20, 2022
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Batteries are likely to be spent from machines of that age, so being able to find replacement batteries is going to be helpful.
Sony VAIO machines, and computers with 'Intel Centrino Mobile Technology' were some of the lighter machines from around that time from what I can remember.
posted by many-things at 1:37 AM on December 20, 2022