Hellow Fellow Kids! Wait, What?
December 14, 2022 4:57 PM Subscribe
Fellow Teachers of MeFi - what's the weirdest stuff that Kids of today are doing in school?
For bonus points: why does their behavior actually make perfect sense?
For example: I'm a college lecturer. I put all of my lecture notes (Keynote slides as PDFs) online and project them as I talk. In the past 2 or 3 years, I've noticed an odd behavior: I will be lecturing, and a student will pull out their phone, take a picture, and put the phone away.
For a time, I would always stop briefly to remind the class "These notes are online - click here and here..." thinking they simply did not realize the PDFs were available.
Yet clearly, from the angle of the phone, and the student's expression, I deduced that (A) they are taking a picture of the projection screen, not me, and (B) they are totally calm about it - this is not some sort of secret "gotcha" moment.
After a while, I believe I finally figured it out. Students are not taking pictures becaue they think "Oh, I don't have this slide content" rather they are taking pictures because "Oh, this is an important think to remember" - given that I show hundreds of slides, taking a picture of one or two actually makes a lot of sense.
This Ask is meant to be light-hearted, and "Kids" can be "anyone you think might be younger than yourself"
"School" might also be "Work" if you wish.
For example: I'm a college lecturer. I put all of my lecture notes (Keynote slides as PDFs) online and project them as I talk. In the past 2 or 3 years, I've noticed an odd behavior: I will be lecturing, and a student will pull out their phone, take a picture, and put the phone away.
For a time, I would always stop briefly to remind the class "These notes are online - click here and here..." thinking they simply did not realize the PDFs were available.
Yet clearly, from the angle of the phone, and the student's expression, I deduced that (A) they are taking a picture of the projection screen, not me, and (B) they are totally calm about it - this is not some sort of secret "gotcha" moment.
After a while, I believe I finally figured it out. Students are not taking pictures becaue they think "Oh, I don't have this slide content" rather they are taking pictures because "Oh, this is an important think to remember" - given that I show hundreds of slides, taking a picture of one or two actually makes a lot of sense.
This Ask is meant to be light-hearted, and "Kids" can be "anyone you think might be younger than yourself"
"School" might also be "Work" if you wish.
Setting up Discords for study groups/talking about the class and trading info and ah, lighthearted remarks. I took a 4th year class last summer where the students asked each other questions about the lecture all during the lecture like “did he just really say x?!” the whole time.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:15 PM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 5:15 PM on December 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Using a screenshot of an image as wallpaper instead of downloading the image.
posted by betweenthebars at 6:22 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by betweenthebars at 6:22 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Well, last week one of my students rolled and proceeded to demolish an entire rotisserie chicken they’d brought with them… during a class they’re not even enrolled in. Besides “kids are weird,” I chalked it up to a) YouTube had taught many of them to really appreciate a good lecture, because they really love learning and have boundless curiosity IF it fits a more passive viewer style and fits a fast-paced and funny YouTube-style talking head format, and b) since many went through long periods of at-home learning, they unlearned rules about “they can eat and pee only during certain times of the day.” It felt like the same energy I have when I watch a Defunctland video about Disneyland queuing systems or a Jenny Nicholson video about church plays or a John Oliver video about anything. Do I care at all about the topic itself? Nope, but I know they’re talking about it I’m gonna be entertained and learn something, so I’ll watch it while I eat dinner.
Levity aside, there is absolutely something educators at all levels can learn from how social media influencers leverage parasocial relationships. Completely different question whether passive consumption of knowledge is the best preparation for their lives… but it’s an interesting thought experiment to consider how influencers on YouTube, twitch, podcasts, TikToks, whatever have effectively weaponized the classic one-way knowledge delivery system educators have always used: lectures. There are so few conversations about what educators could learn from talking head-style influencers on this one particular teaching tool, but maybe there should be.
posted by lilac girl at 6:28 PM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
Levity aside, there is absolutely something educators at all levels can learn from how social media influencers leverage parasocial relationships. Completely different question whether passive consumption of knowledge is the best preparation for their lives… but it’s an interesting thought experiment to consider how influencers on YouTube, twitch, podcasts, TikToks, whatever have effectively weaponized the classic one-way knowledge delivery system educators have always used: lectures. There are so few conversations about what educators could learn from talking head-style influencers on this one particular teaching tool, but maybe there should be.
posted by lilac girl at 6:28 PM on December 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
Using a screenshot of an image as wallpaper instead of downloading the image.
There are a lot of services that do some browser trickery to disable downloading/ saving images. But there will never be a good solution around the analogue hole.
posted by porpoise at 6:38 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are a lot of services that do some browser trickery to disable downloading/ saving images. But there will never be a good solution around the analogue hole.
posted by porpoise at 6:38 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've noticed an odd behavior: I will be lecturing, and a student will pull out their phone, take a picture, and put the phone away.
People of all ages do this at conferences too, and I assume would do the same even if the presenter said the presentation was available online. It's like taking notes - capturing the most important bits - without having to do any writing/typing.
posted by fabius at 5:45 AM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
People of all ages do this at conferences too, and I assume would do the same even if the presenter said the presentation was available online. It's like taking notes - capturing the most important bits - without having to do any writing/typing.
posted by fabius at 5:45 AM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have seen the “take a picture of the PDF I already gave you” a fair bit this year, though not before the pandemic. I kind of wonder if they’ve got into habits of screen capping while they were remote and assemble material more like their own slide shows now. I can’t remember seeing anyone physically taking notes all semester, but my observations are dubious given the distance, masking obscuring my lines of sight, and the configuration of my room.
Following on mention of the unlearning of certain norms, my (undergraduate) students seem to have almost no sense of urgency at all about start and end times for classes. I have never been strict about such things, and I don't care if one or two people arrive late and take a seat at the back or leave early for something without distracting others. But since returning from years of remote (and what seemed to be low-stakes/effort years after), a lot has changed. There's a lot more packs of four and five coming in ten minutes late, still talking, all holding Starbucks cups full to the same degree and casually looking around for seats. Same for people just getting up and leaving early. My completely-scientifically-uninvestigated hypothesis is that they are much more accustomed to consuming information in a solitary, discretionary fashion (I pull up whichever Netflix show/YouTube clip I want, start and stop watching whenever I want, etc.). This plus weird educational environments in recent years has left less of a sense of class sessions as *interactions* with an instructor, and more of a sense of them as packets of content that they'll make use of on their own. (And I have put lots of extra recordings of classes, extra readings, and other links in front of them for years, as have most others. Those things are probably antecedents of this, too.)
posted by el_lupino at 2:05 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Following on mention of the unlearning of certain norms, my (undergraduate) students seem to have almost no sense of urgency at all about start and end times for classes. I have never been strict about such things, and I don't care if one or two people arrive late and take a seat at the back or leave early for something without distracting others. But since returning from years of remote (and what seemed to be low-stakes/effort years after), a lot has changed. There's a lot more packs of four and five coming in ten minutes late, still talking, all holding Starbucks cups full to the same degree and casually looking around for seats. Same for people just getting up and leaving early. My completely-scientifically-uninvestigated hypothesis is that they are much more accustomed to consuming information in a solitary, discretionary fashion (I pull up whichever Netflix show/YouTube clip I want, start and stop watching whenever I want, etc.). This plus weird educational environments in recent years has left less of a sense of class sessions as *interactions* with an instructor, and more of a sense of them as packets of content that they'll make use of on their own. (And I have put lots of extra recordings of classes, extra readings, and other links in front of them for years, as have most others. Those things are probably antecedents of this, too.)
posted by el_lupino at 2:05 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
How accessible are your download links on mobile? Your students may be taking photos because the links and/or downloaded PDFs don't work as great on their phones.
posted by creatrixtiara at 9:50 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by creatrixtiara at 9:50 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: How accessible are your download links on mobile? Your students may be taking photos because the links and/or downloaded PDFs don't work as great on their phones.
My other job is kind of a full-stack web designer role, so I'm very attuned to these issues. It's a good question, as initially that was my concern : "do they not know about the PDFs, are they not able to load the PDFs, do my PDFs suck? etc."
Turns out that was not the problem.
Seeing the responses, I think I could narrow down my question to be something more like this:
"As an old, I find someone randomly sticking a camera in my face and taking a picture, while I'm lecturing, quite distracting. Do youth of today not realize this? Do they realize, but not care? Etc."
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:50 PM on December 16, 2022
My other job is kind of a full-stack web designer role, so I'm very attuned to these issues. It's a good question, as initially that was my concern : "do they not know about the PDFs, are they not able to load the PDFs, do my PDFs suck? etc."
Turns out that was not the problem.
Seeing the responses, I think I could narrow down my question to be something more like this:
"As an old, I find someone randomly sticking a camera in my face and taking a picture, while I'm lecturing, quite distracting. Do youth of today not realize this? Do they realize, but not care? Etc."
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:50 PM on December 16, 2022
Best answer: The other option is: have you asked your students directly?
posted by creatrixtiara at 6:08 PM on December 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by creatrixtiara at 6:08 PM on December 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Do they realize, but not care? Etc."
This has scary implications of the success of state surveillance PR.
posted by porpoise at 11:29 PM on December 16, 2022
This has scary implications of the success of state surveillance PR.
posted by porpoise at 11:29 PM on December 16, 2022
Yeah, I think what counts as normal has changed. See also: screenshotting digital text to share it rather than copy-pasting, photographing the cover of a book you want to buy later rather than writing down the title, taking photos and video at concerts openly (and everyone does it, not just creepy obsessive nerds), the whole art form of memes and Tik-tok stitching and duets and etc. I'm on the cusp of this change and I do some of these things but not others.
Basically, I think the current norm is that media and public performance are fair game to record snippets of for remembering, quoting, enthusing about, riffing on, and discussing. And it seems pretty reasonable that some of your students see a lecture as a public performance rather than a private conversation, ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY'RE NEWLY BACK AFTER A PANDEMIC, AND MISSED A LOT OF SENIOR-YEAR-OF-HIGH-SCHOOL/FRESHMAN-YEAR-OF-COLLEGE SOCIALIZATION ABOUT HOW TO ACT IN COLLEGE.
(I think that last one also explains the wandering late etc, tbh. Some of them are getting 99% of their info about how to act at school from teen dramas, where everyone shrugs off their teachers' preferences except for maybe that one cool one. It's your job to teach them otherwise if you want them to do something different.)
Honestly, I think your best bet is to pick your battles, worry about more universal norms like "don't stroll in late while talking," and let them learn with whatever tools work for them. (Remember when older generations got yelled at for taking notes on a laptop, using [newer reference work] rather than [older one], relying on spell check, practicing music with a tape recorder, or typing rather than learning good handwriting and copyeditors' marks? In hindsight, kind of petty, right?)
But, yeah, if you want them to know and care that you find it rude, you have to tell them, you have to be persistent, and you have to risk them thinking you're being controlling and weird.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:18 AM on December 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Basically, I think the current norm is that media and public performance are fair game to record snippets of for remembering, quoting, enthusing about, riffing on, and discussing. And it seems pretty reasonable that some of your students see a lecture as a public performance rather than a private conversation, ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY'RE NEWLY BACK AFTER A PANDEMIC, AND MISSED A LOT OF SENIOR-YEAR-OF-HIGH-SCHOOL/FRESHMAN-YEAR-OF-COLLEGE SOCIALIZATION ABOUT HOW TO ACT IN COLLEGE.
(I think that last one also explains the wandering late etc, tbh. Some of them are getting 99% of their info about how to act at school from teen dramas, where everyone shrugs off their teachers' preferences except for maybe that one cool one. It's your job to teach them otherwise if you want them to do something different.)
Honestly, I think your best bet is to pick your battles, worry about more universal norms like "don't stroll in late while talking," and let them learn with whatever tools work for them. (Remember when older generations got yelled at for taking notes on a laptop, using [newer reference work] rather than [older one], relying on spell check, practicing music with a tape recorder, or typing rather than learning good handwriting and copyeditors' marks? In hindsight, kind of petty, right?)
But, yeah, if you want them to know and care that you find it rude, you have to tell them, you have to be persistent, and you have to risk them thinking you're being controlling and weird.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:18 AM on December 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You may find use in reframing this annoyance as a compliment: you’re getting real-time feedback about what they find important. Every time someone takes a picture, it’s because they’re paying attention and want to do well.
Before the pandemic I had a student pull out their phone and start recording me. It scared the daylights out of me because I didn’t know what they were doing at first, but I asked after class and the student said they were live-streaming me on reddit. It was meant as a compliment because the lecture was particularly entertaining… they had never considered that recording a teacher in a charged political environment might be taken in any other way.
posted by lilac girl at 11:15 AM on December 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
Before the pandemic I had a student pull out their phone and start recording me. It scared the daylights out of me because I didn’t know what they were doing at first, but I asked after class and the student said they were live-streaming me on reddit. It was meant as a compliment because the lecture was particularly entertaining… they had never considered that recording a teacher in a charged political environment might be taken in any other way.
posted by lilac girl at 11:15 AM on December 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I'm loving all the comments, thank you! I'm going to mark lilac girl as best, simply because the idea of being surreptitiously streamed while lecturing sounds very nerve-wracking.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 5:17 PM on December 17, 2022
posted by soylent00FF00 at 5:17 PM on December 17, 2022
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