Friend accused of not scanning groceries at self-checkout
September 8, 2022 10:05 AM Subscribe
A friend has been accused by a local grocery store chain of intentionally not scanning some items in self-checkout lanes. The police phoned my friend and told them only vague details so far, but they said the store has video of this happening at multiple locations around their city (in the US) over a period of time. My friend told the police to give their contact info to the store, in hopes of settling matters directly with them. I didn't ask my friend if they actually did this or not, but they seem pretty rattled and they're looking for advice going forward, based on the hope they can just pay for whatever wasn't scanned.
The only steps taken so far are that after reaching my friend by phone, the police emailed some security cam images to them, which my friend affirmed was them. They also confirmed they'd been to that store. They are capable of paying for whatever didn't get scanned and told the police they'd be happy to deal directly with the store and that the police could give the store their phone number. I don't know what dollar amounts are involved, but it sounds like it may be a lot, based on the "multiple locations over a period of time" part of the conversation.
The only steps taken so far are that after reaching my friend by phone, the police emailed some security cam images to them, which my friend affirmed was them. They also confirmed they'd been to that store. They are capable of paying for whatever didn't get scanned and told the police they'd be happy to deal directly with the store and that the police could give the store their phone number. I don't know what dollar amounts are involved, but it sounds like it may be a lot, based on the "multiple locations over a period of time" part of the conversation.
I would advise no further interaction with the police without a lawyer present.
posted by sickinthehead at 10:13 AM on September 8, 2022 [37 favorites]
posted by sickinthehead at 10:13 AM on September 8, 2022 [37 favorites]
To clean up the problem with the store, your friend should engage a lawyer.
But it is also possible that this is a scam of some sort. Is your friend sure that the people calling are actually the police? Has your friend visited them at a police station, seen their badges, etc?
I would not give any personal information -- any information at all -- to anyone who telephoned me and said they were the police. Even if I had done the things they claimed, I would decline to talk to them over the phone, and would instead ask to meet with them at a police station. Then, I'd meet with them there with my lawyer present.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 10:14 AM on September 8, 2022 [97 favorites]
But it is also possible that this is a scam of some sort. Is your friend sure that the people calling are actually the police? Has your friend visited them at a police station, seen their badges, etc?
I would not give any personal information -- any information at all -- to anyone who telephoned me and said they were the police. Even if I had done the things they claimed, I would decline to talk to them over the phone, and would instead ask to meet with them at a police station. Then, I'd meet with them there with my lawyer present.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 10:14 AM on September 8, 2022 [97 favorites]
This really doesn’t pass the smell test. The police don’t just telephone you to accuse you of a crime. I think your friend is being set up for a scam.
posted by ook at 10:17 AM on September 8, 2022 [134 favorites]
posted by ook at 10:17 AM on September 8, 2022 [134 favorites]
For reference, this was going around recently about a lawyer advising people to not use self checkout because of the risk of being accused of theft. Whether or not the police would contact you in this manner, I can't say, but being accused of theft at self checkout is not unheard of.
posted by primethyme at 10:19 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by primethyme at 10:19 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Police in the US may call you while investigating a crime. If they believe you've committed a crime, they arrest you (otherwise, flight risk).
posted by Rash at 10:22 AM on September 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Rash at 10:22 AM on September 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
A consideration for your friend: If your friend has been doing this and they think that the dollar amount might rise to felony theft, they need a lawyer stat. I have heard of Target in particular letting stuff pend until people have taken enough that they can be convicted of felony theft.
But this frankly sounds like fraud - either someone pretending to be the cops or the cops in cahoots with someone at the store to shake people down over trivial amounts. Your friend needs a lawyer for this too.
posted by Frowner at 10:24 AM on September 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
But this frankly sounds like fraud - either someone pretending to be the cops or the cops in cahoots with someone at the store to shake people down over trivial amounts. Your friend needs a lawyer for this too.
posted by Frowner at 10:24 AM on September 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
They are unlikely to be able to just pay for what wasn't scanned going forward. If the penalty for stealing is just having to pay for the value of the goods you stole, that's not much of a deterrent. They might be able to reach an agreement where in exchange for being trespassed from the stores in the chain (ordered not to return) they can avoid a criminal prosecution.
It's possible if you lawyer up and stop cooperating, the police will decide it's too much trouble to go through with charges. This is especially true if the total amount of goods stolen is under the felony limit for your city/state.
The police very much do telephone you as they are gathering information and deciding whether to charge you with a crime. If you call the police department you can ask for person calling you by name to see if they are legit.
posted by hermanubis at 10:25 AM on September 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's possible if you lawyer up and stop cooperating, the police will decide it's too much trouble to go through with charges. This is especially true if the total amount of goods stolen is under the felony limit for your city/state.
The police very much do telephone you as they are gathering information and deciding whether to charge you with a crime. If you call the police department you can ask for person calling you by name to see if they are legit.
posted by hermanubis at 10:25 AM on September 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also if the cops emailed them images, what is that email address? Is it legit? Like, that is extremely weird, right?
posted by Frowner at 10:25 AM on September 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 10:25 AM on September 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
There are a large number of scams that involve scammers pretending to be police officers.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 10:34 AM on September 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by Winnie the Proust at 10:34 AM on September 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
I mean, yeah, obviously they shouldn't talk to the cops without a lawyer, and even then they should talk as little as possible. I don't think it's out of the question that the police would just call them directly - I've been emailed by the police before (a place I'd quit was burglarized shortly after I left, and disgruntled former employees are easy suspects). But I do think the really important question is whether your friend did, in fact, do what they're accused of doing. That would be a pretty easy explanation for why they're rattled (they got caught and might go to jail), and explains some other questionable details as well. Why did they ask the police to pass their contact info to the store? The store's phone number is a Google search away; they could easily call the store and settle the matter themselves. That they don't suggests to me that they're not actually interested in paying for what they stole, only that they're interested in getting the police off their back. And it wouldn't be surprising if the store didn't agree, considering they already suspect your friend of screwing them over multiple times.
Ultimately, though, this is a pretty easily determined question of fact. Self-checkout lanes are covered in security cameras (for exactly this reason), and if your friend did actually steal, the store almost certainly has all the evidence they need. That your friend confirmed the person on the images was them is just icing on the cake. And if they don't have any such evidence, well, it seems kind of far-fetched that the police would get involved, unless the items stolen were like the ingredients to make bathtub meth or something and they thought your friend was a drug kingpin. (Which, if so, bigger problems.)
So yeah, my impression is that your friend is either guilty, in which case they'll need to get a lawyer, or being scammed, which should be pretty easy to verify (or not verify, as the case may be). Check the email address, call the police station, etc.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:38 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ultimately, though, this is a pretty easily determined question of fact. Self-checkout lanes are covered in security cameras (for exactly this reason), and if your friend did actually steal, the store almost certainly has all the evidence they need. That your friend confirmed the person on the images was them is just icing on the cake. And if they don't have any such evidence, well, it seems kind of far-fetched that the police would get involved, unless the items stolen were like the ingredients to make bathtub meth or something and they thought your friend was a drug kingpin. (Which, if so, bigger problems.)
So yeah, my impression is that your friend is either guilty, in which case they'll need to get a lawyer, or being scammed, which should be pretty easy to verify (or not verify, as the case may be). Check the email address, call the police station, etc.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:38 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
A friend of a friend is a recurrent shoplifter and the way they were apprehended was that they were caught in the act, detained into a back room of the mall, and their face compared against the mall’s other security camera images of shoplifters, where matches were found. I think this is a scam.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:38 AM on September 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:38 AM on September 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
The police use both telephone and email when contacting witnesses and suspects.
posted by hermanubis at 10:39 AM on September 8, 2022
posted by hermanubis at 10:39 AM on September 8, 2022
Larger stores have policies for dealing with theft. If your friend did steal from the store, the policy is probably to call the police. Settling this in some way with the store is not going to be an option. Stores lose a lot of money to theft, and they take it very seriously.
posted by FencingGal at 10:48 AM on September 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by FencingGal at 10:48 AM on September 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
It kind of sounds like your friend DID in good faith scan all of their items and they think that what's happening is they must have mistakenly fail to scan some things? And for that they'd like to just pay the store? If that's your friend's understanding, then I think this is a scam, because they're trying to manipulate you into questioning your memory and being afraid. Are they sure the store is even involved at all? Your friend needs a lawyer to protect them from whatever is happening here and make it go away.
If on the other hand your friend is like, yeah, I did read on the internet that you can just not scan some things, so I decided to try it - then your friend absolutely needs a criminal lawyer & to do whatever they say. But still confirm this isn't a scam in either case!
posted by bleep at 11:04 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
If on the other hand your friend is like, yeah, I did read on the internet that you can just not scan some things, so I decided to try it - then your friend absolutely needs a criminal lawyer & to do whatever they say. But still confirm this isn't a scam in either case!
posted by bleep at 11:04 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
If your friend actually did this, then their next call should be to a lawyer and they should do whatever the lawyer says.
If they didn't, then I think there's a very high likelihood this is a scam rather than a mistake they somehow made so often and so widely that the cops are now after them. They could still talk to a lawyer if it would make them feel better, it's never a bad idea to talk to a lawyer when the cops are involved! Otherwise, if they speaks with these cops again, I don't think they should do anything except confirm a name, badge number, or whatever is appropriate identification where you are, and then contact that police precinct directly to confirm that they're talking to an actual cop about an actual case. (If the 'store' calls, same deal - get a name and a store number and call that store directly to verify that they're talking to that actual person about an actual accusation.)
posted by Stacey at 11:22 AM on September 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
If they didn't, then I think there's a very high likelihood this is a scam rather than a mistake they somehow made so often and so widely that the cops are now after them. They could still talk to a lawyer if it would make them feel better, it's never a bad idea to talk to a lawyer when the cops are involved! Otherwise, if they speaks with these cops again, I don't think they should do anything except confirm a name, badge number, or whatever is appropriate identification where you are, and then contact that police precinct directly to confirm that they're talking to an actual cop about an actual case. (If the 'store' calls, same deal - get a name and a store number and call that store directly to verify that they're talking to that actual person about an actual accusation.)
posted by Stacey at 11:22 AM on September 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
I have heard of Target in particular letting stuff pend until people have taken enough that they can be convicted of felony theft.
I used to work at Target and this was definitely the practice at my store. There was a whole bit about bad checks from a particular repeat customer where they first told everybody on the front to look out for that guy and stop taking his checks, and then said, no, we know who he his and the amounts aren't that high, so don't let him know we know. They also did this with team members stealing from the store, so when you got in trouble you really got in trouble (like, perp walked out the front door, in handcuffs, past other employees who would of course spread the news to everybody in minutes, so you lost your job, your freedom, and your reputation all at once).
But also at my store if you were a repeat offender you'd just get apprehended the next time you offended in the store. I don't think they ever got to the point of open warrants. You weren't ever informed that Target knew you'd been taking stuff without paying for it until someone said "can you come with me please." It seems weird that the police would be contacting your friend and not, y'know, just arresting them.
posted by fedward at 11:28 AM on September 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
I used to work at Target and this was definitely the practice at my store. There was a whole bit about bad checks from a particular repeat customer where they first told everybody on the front to look out for that guy and stop taking his checks, and then said, no, we know who he his and the amounts aren't that high, so don't let him know we know. They also did this with team members stealing from the store, so when you got in trouble you really got in trouble (like, perp walked out the front door, in handcuffs, past other employees who would of course spread the news to everybody in minutes, so you lost your job, your freedom, and your reputation all at once).
But also at my store if you were a repeat offender you'd just get apprehended the next time you offended in the store. I don't think they ever got to the point of open warrants. You weren't ever informed that Target knew you'd been taking stuff without paying for it until someone said "can you come with me please." It seems weird that the police would be contacting your friend and not, y'know, just arresting them.
posted by fedward at 11:28 AM on September 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Whether they did do or they didn't do it, the whole thing seems bizarre. If this is a large enough chain to have multiple locations and self checkout with security cameras, they have enough insurance and enough on their plate to not go after your one specific friend. Unless your friend has REALLY been doing some spectacular shoplifting, in which case... why not an arrest?
This sounds like a scam to get people to pay to get fake charges to go away--and it's possibly being run by someone inside loss prevention at the store, seeing as they have access to security footage. Sleazy!
posted by kingdead at 11:29 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
This sounds like a scam to get people to pay to get fake charges to go away--and it's possibly being run by someone inside loss prevention at the store, seeing as they have access to security footage. Sleazy!
posted by kingdead at 11:29 AM on September 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Your friend needs to call some lawyers, find one and then tell the person they are speaking with that they can contact the lawyer.
Or, to try and ensure it is not a scam (and a lawyer is $$$), get the calling "police officer"'s information (name, number, badge number, division, email), then call the stations number directly and ask to be transfered - or even just verify that the information is correct.
This sounds like a scam - your friend needs someone technical to verify the email address is from the police.
posted by rozcakj at 12:24 PM on September 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Or, to try and ensure it is not a scam (and a lawyer is $$$), get the calling "police officer"'s information (name, number, badge number, division, email), then call the stations number directly and ask to be transfered - or even just verify that the information is correct.
This sounds like a scam - your friend needs someone technical to verify the email address is from the police.
posted by rozcakj at 12:24 PM on September 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh - there are photos? And your friend confirmed that it was your friend in the photos?
Then, probably not a scam - how would a scammer get legit security cam photo's from many different stores...? (Unless the store had a data breach, but I find that doubtful, and a scammer wouldn't go after just one person)
posted by rozcakj at 12:26 PM on September 8, 2022
Then, probably not a scam - how would a scammer get legit security cam photo's from many different stores...? (Unless the store had a data breach, but I find that doubtful, and a scammer wouldn't go after just one person)
posted by rozcakj at 12:26 PM on September 8, 2022
My [lawyer, prosecutor] father told me from a very, very early age to NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer present if you're even mildly concerned that they suspect you of something, even if it means going to jail overnight or something else equally untoward.
And yeah, if they're calling, they're fishing for your friend to confess. (Doesn't sound likely to be a scam to me, but who knows.)
LWYRUP
posted by nosila at 12:32 PM on September 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
And yeah, if they're calling, they're fishing for your friend to confess. (Doesn't sound likely to be a scam to me, but who knows.)
LWYRUP
posted by nosila at 12:32 PM on September 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
My question is whether your friend has actually been shoplifting (bagging items without scanning and paying for them). Not just is that your friend in the footage but does the footage actually showing them doing it? If so, absolutely time to find a lawyer now and at least have a premlinary conversation so they know who to call if something more develops.
If they are innocent, then it probably makes sense to do some research to see if it is a scam. Call the nonemergency line for the police and ask to the speak to the officer that contacted them. (Scammers can use the name of real police officers so just knowing that they work there isn't enough.) Tell them that you just want to confirm it was really them that contacted you and then hang up and find a lawyer. (Don't start talking abut what happens next) If there is no such officer or if you talk to them and they don't know anything about it then your friend can decide if they want to report it. The most important thing is that they don't get caught up in something where the store representative or officer offer to make it go away if he pays up and they start pressuring him to come up with untraceable money fast.
If there is any further contact and it seems legit, your friend should still absolutely insist on meeting them in their office (at the store or police station), not privately or in the lobby but in a way that confirms their legal identity. Ideally bring the lawyer. The promise to make things go away is how scammers get people in a such a state they aren't thinking clearly.
posted by metahawk at 1:30 PM on September 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
If they are innocent, then it probably makes sense to do some research to see if it is a scam. Call the nonemergency line for the police and ask to the speak to the officer that contacted them. (Scammers can use the name of real police officers so just knowing that they work there isn't enough.) Tell them that you just want to confirm it was really them that contacted you and then hang up and find a lawyer. (Don't start talking abut what happens next) If there is no such officer or if you talk to them and they don't know anything about it then your friend can decide if they want to report it. The most important thing is that they don't get caught up in something where the store representative or officer offer to make it go away if he pays up and they start pressuring him to come up with untraceable money fast.
If there is any further contact and it seems legit, your friend should still absolutely insist on meeting them in their office (at the store or police station), not privately or in the lobby but in a way that confirms their legal identity. Ideally bring the lawyer. The promise to make things go away is how scammers get people in a such a state they aren't thinking clearly.
posted by metahawk at 1:30 PM on September 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
This could be a scam but as one of the links above shows, Walmart and Target absolutely do work like this by waiting for the amount stolen to become large enough to have real consequences. I don't think it matters if your friend is guilty or innocent. They need a lawyer. They also should stop going to this store and stop using self checkout at all.
This is to protect your friend from being scammed even if the police and store people are real. They are experts at this type of situation and so your friend needs an expert too.
posted by soelo at 2:32 PM on September 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is to protect your friend from being scammed even if the police and store people are real. They are experts at this type of situation and so your friend needs an expert too.
posted by soelo at 2:32 PM on September 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just to reinforce why you don't talk to cops without a lawyer, if this is actually real your friend made the cop's life a lot easier by confirming that they have in fact patronized the store in question and that they are in fact the subject of the security video. The only thing left to argue about is whether the security video shows your friend failing to scan items that were then removed from the premises. Admitting to the possibility by asking the police to have the store contact them is also actively unhelpful, but doesn't directly prove an element of the crime at least. Still looks bad, though.
Don't talk to cops. If you insist on doing so, don't admit to anything, no matter how innocent it seems. It just makes your life and your attorney's life harder down the road.
posted by wierdo at 5:27 PM on September 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
Don't talk to cops. If you insist on doing so, don't admit to anything, no matter how innocent it seems. It just makes your life and your attorney's life harder down the road.
posted by wierdo at 5:27 PM on September 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
Based on my teen’s work at the local grocery store, this is likely Not a Scam, especially if the friend has seen their own image! Self check out has security cameras. Most stores allow for an oversight, but facial recognition is a thing and it’s likely your friend is swiping a card for payment, and they do monitor for people shoplifting-via-non-payment. My teen has watched video. Generally the store waits for the problem behavior to reach a threshold before taking action.
This store has reached that threshold. Your friend is not working with the store manager, who might have discretion for pressing charges, and with this repeat behavior might ban them from all local stores. They are working with an agency that can leave a negative public record that would come up with future background checks, not to mention that scammers take advantage of negative public records. They engaged in behavior that has come back to haunt them. If they have access to a lawyer via family, friends, employer EAP style benefits - get that done. If it’s more than one store location, it’s better to just hash it out with one fell swoop.
In the Before Times I took my kids to see an Ai Wei Wei exhibit at DC’s Hirshhorn-one theme was essentially “we are always under surveillance” one wall had a beautiful gold pattern like you would see of a silk scarf… that on second glance, was an elaborate network of gold security cameras. Their reaction was nothing like what they appreciated from the older teens tell-all from behind the scenes. For good or ill, it’s best to presume someone has a camera.
posted by childofTethys at 7:29 PM on September 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
This store has reached that threshold. Your friend is not working with the store manager, who might have discretion for pressing charges, and with this repeat behavior might ban them from all local stores. They are working with an agency that can leave a negative public record that would come up with future background checks, not to mention that scammers take advantage of negative public records. They engaged in behavior that has come back to haunt them. If they have access to a lawyer via family, friends, employer EAP style benefits - get that done. If it’s more than one store location, it’s better to just hash it out with one fell swoop.
In the Before Times I took my kids to see an Ai Wei Wei exhibit at DC’s Hirshhorn-one theme was essentially “we are always under surveillance” one wall had a beautiful gold pattern like you would see of a silk scarf… that on second glance, was an elaborate network of gold security cameras. Their reaction was nothing like what they appreciated from the older teens tell-all from behind the scenes. For good or ill, it’s best to presume someone has a camera.
posted by childofTethys at 7:29 PM on September 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
People seem to really be into the scam idea and it’s probably worth a quick phone call to verify the email is real, but honestly the idea of someone stealing security footage paired with identifying information and then going out to scam individuals seems a bit convoluted.
Assuming the situation is what it appears to be I have to say that "Gosh, I’ll just pay them for what I took" is an awe inspiring exhibition of presumed social privilege. Unless your friend really does have significant social status they are likely headed for a hard awakening. They really need to drop the idea of unfettered cooperation with people who will be rewarded for screwing them and engage a lawyer tout suite.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:10 PM on September 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Assuming the situation is what it appears to be I have to say that "Gosh, I’ll just pay them for what I took" is an awe inspiring exhibition of presumed social privilege. Unless your friend really does have significant social status they are likely headed for a hard awakening. They really need to drop the idea of unfettered cooperation with people who will be rewarded for screwing them and engage a lawyer tout suite.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:10 PM on September 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
If you suspect someone is stealing from you and you do nothing to stop it even though you can do something then why is your inaction rewarded by the state?
The short answer is, statute of limitations laws. Victims of theft typically have a period of years to press charges. Criminals don't get to run free because victims of crime don't press charges immediately. If the criminal commits the same crime against the same victim during that statute of limitations period, that's stupid on the criminal's part.
The longer answer is, this argument makes no sense when applied to any other crime. Like, if a husband comes home drunk and beats his wife, and she films the whole thing and documents her injuries, but decides not to press charges, she's still a victim of domestic violence, and if it happens again, she would still be able to use the video of the first incident. If a group of people steal your car, and the police can immediately identify some of them but not others, they might wait to charge the ones they know until the whole group can be apprehended. There are any number of reasons a victim could choose not to press charges after a single incident, but victims of crime don't lose their rights because they wait longer than you'd like to press charges, or because they're a corporation instead of an individual. They're still victims of crime, and an alternative that disregarded victims' rights would create a much less just society.
And also, they're not "doing nothing" to stop theft. They've got signs posted around the store, they have security cameras, a lot of times they have security guards posted near the door, and often those security guards will in fact apprehend shoplifters. They may not be doing as much as *you* personally wish they would, but that's quite different than doing nothing at all.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:02 AM on September 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
The short answer is, statute of limitations laws. Victims of theft typically have a period of years to press charges. Criminals don't get to run free because victims of crime don't press charges immediately. If the criminal commits the same crime against the same victim during that statute of limitations period, that's stupid on the criminal's part.
The longer answer is, this argument makes no sense when applied to any other crime. Like, if a husband comes home drunk and beats his wife, and she films the whole thing and documents her injuries, but decides not to press charges, she's still a victim of domestic violence, and if it happens again, she would still be able to use the video of the first incident. If a group of people steal your car, and the police can immediately identify some of them but not others, they might wait to charge the ones they know until the whole group can be apprehended. There are any number of reasons a victim could choose not to press charges after a single incident, but victims of crime don't lose their rights because they wait longer than you'd like to press charges, or because they're a corporation instead of an individual. They're still victims of crime, and an alternative that disregarded victims' rights would create a much less just society.
And also, they're not "doing nothing" to stop theft. They've got signs posted around the store, they have security cameras, a lot of times they have security guards posted near the door, and often those security guards will in fact apprehend shoplifters. They may not be doing as much as *you* personally wish they would, but that's quite different than doing nothing at all.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:02 AM on September 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by eirias at 10:13 AM on September 8, 2022 [159 favorites]