Minisplit advice

September 5, 2022 8:17 AM

Sister is considering adding minisplit units to 1900 era two-family home she owns in Medford, NW of Boston. She's done the Mass Save energy audit and recommended work. Wanting to keep boiler system for emergency heat, even though the planned equipment would provide heat to -10F, so understands that Mass Save rebate would be based on tonnage of installed systems, rather than straight $10K. She has questions about expected cost - at least one estimate has been pushing $60K?! - and timing of install to take advantage of newly-enacted federal incentives.

Also, she has a sleeping porch that would have available space if condenser units were to be installed there. Is that a terrible idea? Let's leave aside the question of aesthetics and just be looking at impact on function, likely noise, condensate discharge, etc. And of course, if anyone has experience with an install in that area, information about tradespeople and experiences with units would be welcome. Thanks.

posted by bullatony to Home & Garden (16 answers total)

Best answer: We got mini splits put in, in Massachusetts, after using MassSave. I can not speak to the newer federal incentives but I can tell you what we did.

- We got a 3-in-1 system (i.e. 3 heads on one condenser) with the compressor outside, just for the bedrooms. I'll be honest, the sound is not that loud, you can hear it but it's not like an AC unit.
- We went with ReVision Energy and were very happy with them. I actually learned about them from a MeFite who worked for them!
- The process is a bit of a hassle, just balancing timing and $$ stuff and installation and contracts and whatever.
- We got Mitsubishi splits and they're great, if a little overkill (they can track where you are in the room and can follow you around with heat/cooling) and one room was too awkward for a wal mounted unit and we have a floor model and it's been fine.
- Ours cost approximately 18K in 2019. I've heard the prices are somewhat steeper now because the price of copper has gone way up. We paid I think 3K up front and the rest was a loan.
- We got a seven year 0% loan from Workers Credit Union (you have many options) to pay for it. We pay about $200/mo on the system. I do not believe there are income requirements to get loans (here in Vermont there are)

I'm looking at getting a system here where I live in Vermont and it's a different story but I have been talking to contractors about them recently. My understanding is that if you choose a house-attached condenser you're really looking at a different profile in terms of noise and vibration and they tend to discourage people from those unless there are no other options.
posted by jessamyn at 8:37 AM on September 5, 2022 [3 favorites]

For what it's worth, we're looking at minisplits up in seacoast NH, and got quoted $13,000 for three units in three rooms. This is an HVAC guy we've worked with for awhile, with a pretty small operation.
posted by damayanti at 8:38 AM on September 5, 2022

I just had Mitsubishi hyperheat minispilits (the kind that can efficiently heat in very cold weather) installed in Philadelphia, 3 heads on one condenser. Including installation, it cost $17k. I had to wait 3 or 4 months because of supply chain issues.
posted by mcduff at 8:45 AM on September 5, 2022

Best answer: Wow, I am signing my heat loan this week, also in Medford, MA.

We'll need five heads in the house. The first bid I got was $50k (from Evolved Mechanical), the second came out at $35k, with some aesthetic concessions (from Addario's HVAC). We're going with them, though so far I can only speak to their paperwork and advice, since they haven't done the work yet. We expected it to be less, because about 5 years ago we got one unit installed for about $6k, but apparently the economy and supply chain stuff has made that much of a difference.

We get the full $10k rebate plus the $25k zero-interest heat loan, so we are out of pocket nothing, though we'll have to pay the loan off for 7 years. We are also keeping our gas heat as backup, but still got the full rebate/loan.

Happy to answer any more specific questions. And I have a good friend who works in state environmental policy who has worked on the rebate program, so she often has great answers to specific questions for me, if you have more.
posted by gideonfrog at 8:58 AM on September 5, 2022

Response by poster: Thank you all so far. Great information. I also have two mitsubishi hyperheat units (I think that at the time they were installed there was no option for hyperheat multihead) installed in Ohio for about $7k in 2014. Very happy with them - they have made me something of a minisplit proselytizer - but things have to make sense $wise.
posted by bullatony at 9:24 AM on September 5, 2022

Definitely shop around for better prices. Many installers are saying there's a supply chain issue and price increase, but I've been tracking prices since before the pandemic and on a lot of units I'm only seeing about a 10% increase. There have been some supply chain hiccups but the ones I've seen were only around things like lineset covers.

Many installers have also raised their install cost by the exact amount of any new rebates and incentives. I realize everyone has to make a living but over $1,000/hr *per laborer* is really insane, and that's what I've seen install costs running around here from some of the minisplit-only contractors. So also see if you're able to figure out what the actual ROI would be of an install before dropping tens of thousands on it.

Describe the sleeping porch in more detail. Is it screened in? What is it over/under? You really want the condenser to be outside. They're somewhere between fairly quiet and a little bit of sound. I wouldn't want it over a bedroom or attached to the wall of a bedroom. The condensate in the winter is supposed to mostly exit via a hole in the bottom, but none of the units I've encountered drain *only* through that hole, presumably because the manufacturer assume it'll be outside. I can't find any example of an outdoor condenser pan with condensate pump. So yeah, you'd want it to be in a spot that won't get affected by water.
posted by MonsieurBon at 9:44 AM on September 5, 2022 [2 favorites]

Maybe this is obvious but you are paying for electrical work and some construction work as well. I had my older mini split replaced this year and since the infrastructure was in place, the price was only $5K.
posted by andreap at 9:53 AM on September 5, 2022

I had 3 head units and a condenser installed in my approximately 1000 sq ft rowhouse back in January. It cost about $13K all in (equipment and installation, no electrical work). Some thoughts:

1) Ask if they give any discounts for doing the work in the winter. I got about 5% off. Summer is over and she already has heat, so there’s no big rush.

2) Is electrical work necessary? Bigger panel, more amps? Depending on what electrical work is necessary that could easily add $5K to the price.

3) That said, $60K to install minisplits in a 1900 sq ft house seems wildly excessive to me. The head units are maybe $2500 at the absolute worst. However, there could be complicating factors not in your post, so it’s hard to say.

Why do you need five head units? Where are you putting them, and what is the layout of the house?
posted by rhymedirective at 12:12 PM on September 5, 2022 [1 favorite]

Looking into this in NYC, my impression was that a lot of the cost is driven by *where* you site the condensor units. Placing them on the ground in a back yard is cheap, getting a crane to haul them onto the roof, reinforcing the roof as needed if there are multiple units, and handling any permitting for that operation is not. Is that driving some of the cost?
posted by A Blue Moon at 3:05 PM on September 5, 2022 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: There are no extraordinary siting costs in this instance, only the usual questions of making the outdoor units accessible and inconspicuous. The sub-question of the sleeping porch was mine only, since at least one of the contractors had suggested that long lineset runs were a problem, although what I've seen suggests that the loss of efficiency is not great (up to some hard limits that we don't have). The sleeping porch siting would make for shorter stretches between outside and inside units, and would be outside but less subject to wind and other weather.
posted by bullatony at 5:28 PM on September 5, 2022

Your response makes me even more confused why she’s being quoted $60,000 for this work. It seems wild. Let’s way overestimate and say $20,000 for materials, is there $40,000 worth of labor being done? And why does she need 2 outside units?

I would not recommend putting a condenser on a sleeping porch—they leak some amount of moisture.
posted by rhymedirective at 8:10 PM on September 5, 2022

Like I mentioned earlier, installers are charging over $1,000/hr per person for labor. And they are marking up the hardware significantly. Multiple friends here (and my old landlord) in the PNW have had 2-3 head installs that cost ~$35,000, and got other quotes over $50k.
posted by MonsieurBon at 8:45 PM on September 5, 2022

I have a condenser on a roofed balcony (apartment building). It does interfere with the enjoyment of the balcony when running because it's blowing a bit of hot air and emitting about 40-50dB of sound, especially loud just after turning the setup on (once the flat is cool, I can work on the balcony no problem). The moisture output is significant, with about 5 liters per day on humid days, and in my situation where I'm not allowed to let it drip out of the balcony, I have to collect it in a bucket and empty it every day or three, but in a covered porch setup you can probably just let the condensate pipe hang over the edge and above a piece of ground where the moisture won't damage anything. Plus frankly it's a fairly large machine, like half a washing machine hanging out in your living space.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:31 PM on September 5, 2022

Response by poster: There are all sorts of reasons that a bid can be high. I'm inclined toward MonsieurBon's explanation in this instance, but it can also be a statement that the person simply isn't interested, or doesn't feel competent, and is submitting a bid that won't be accepted. It's worth mentioning again that this is a 1900 era home, not a 1900 square foot home, and it was gideonfrog's answer that talked about five heads, not my question. To some extent I was deliberately vague about the scope of the job, since I'm not asking for a design submission, but a more general sense for whether other's bids were in the realm of reasonableness, what experience folks had had with installers, Mass Save, and different manufacturers' units. Despite the shortcomings of my question-asking, I think we've got some good information and leads to pursue, so thank you all again!
posted by bullatony at 5:06 AM on September 6, 2022

We'll need five heads in the house. The first bid I got was $50k (from Evolved Mechanical), the second came out at $35k, with some aesthetic concessions (from Addario's HVAC).

We're on the other side of the country, but for what it is worth we recently got a bunch of bids for a similar sized system, and the more reputable of the companies were pricing near your lower number. Whether because of supply constraints, labor issues, profit, whatever, prices are clearly up over a couple of years ago. We had one or two companies that never bothered to send their bid (we just assumed they were fully booked) and a couple with outlier bids where it seemed like they either didn't understand the job or didn't want the work. As long as you get enough bids to see a clear pattern of pricing (or can compare with other people's costs for similar work locally(, then you are in a good position to pick the most reputable company with a solid price.

We also saw a clear pattern by what brand they were proposing, with the Mitsubishi systems higher and the competitors lower.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:58 AM on September 6, 2022

For what it's worth, we're looking at minisplits up in seacoast NH, and got quoted $13,000 for three units in three rooms

Also in seacoast NH, and this spring we installed five Mitsubishi wall units on one compressor for around $20k. One of the best investments we’ve made for sure.
posted by schoolgirl report at 3:51 PM on September 6, 2022