Make my hot tub dreams come true?
July 24, 2022 9:15 AM Subscribe
I want to put a hot tub in but I'm not even sure where to start. I have tried starting with Google six or seven times over but there's so much garbage out there that I am not finding it helpful. What do you wish you had known before you installed your hot tub?
In my rich fantasy life I would get a wooden hot tub but I'm kind of aware that I probably can't afford that. I don't have a huge back yard, so I'll have to look at it, and I'd love to minimize the foot print. It would primarily be used by myself and my teenage son. He is a compulsive bather, which is not always the case with teenagers, and mostly wants to use it after swimming. So he can generally be relied on to be clean when he uses it.
I'm trying to make sense of chlorine vs salt options and wondering if either one can drain into the garden without creating a little brownfield.
So please tell me: what do you wish you'd researched better before you installed a hot tub?
In my rich fantasy life I would get a wooden hot tub but I'm kind of aware that I probably can't afford that. I don't have a huge back yard, so I'll have to look at it, and I'd love to minimize the foot print. It would primarily be used by myself and my teenage son. He is a compulsive bather, which is not always the case with teenagers, and mostly wants to use it after swimming. So he can generally be relied on to be clean when he uses it.
I'm trying to make sense of chlorine vs salt options and wondering if either one can drain into the garden without creating a little brownfield.
So please tell me: what do you wish you'd researched better before you installed a hot tub?
I don't know if it is relevant to the size of your yard, but knowing where the best place to hook up the plumbing and the power was a factor in cost for the hot tub at my previous house.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:13 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:13 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have one similar to this. It's great. The one surprise was that the motor makes a fairly loud hum, so if you're putting it right by a bedroom and you like to keep your windows open, aim the motor away from the house.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:48 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:48 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
oh and wrt draining, when we drain ours - which isn't often - we use a small pump and a long hose, into the shower closest to the yard so it goes down the drain. No idea re brown spots, but you can't dump that quantity of water into a yard.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:08 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:08 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Privacy. Scope out every possible angle prying neighbor eyes might have on the tub. Then, work out how to effectively, and eye-pleasingly, block those eyes.
This a million times over. I was at someone's house recently and they had a hot tub in the backyard that could be directly observed by three neighbors. That just didn't look relaxing to me but to each their own.
We no longer have a hot tub (due to moving; it is the thing we miss the most about that house) but I found the salt-based treatment much nicer than the chlorine. Not just easier to manage, but also nicer on our skin and it didn't have that harsh smell. When we drained it, we ran a long hose out away from the house; that would be a lot of water to dump on a small patch of yard.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:16 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
This a million times over. I was at someone's house recently and they had a hot tub in the backyard that could be directly observed by three neighbors. That just didn't look relaxing to me but to each their own.
We no longer have a hot tub (due to moving; it is the thing we miss the most about that house) but I found the salt-based treatment much nicer than the chlorine. Not just easier to manage, but also nicer on our skin and it didn't have that harsh smell. When we drained it, we ran a long hose out away from the house; that would be a lot of water to dump on a small patch of yard.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:16 AM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Buying a hot tub gets very complicated fast. It's very similar to cars - expensive (and long wait from dealers) and a lot of junk used.
What I'd recommend is look for an operating used tub. You should be able to find one in the $2k-$3k range. They aren't particularly more popular in cities vs rural areas.
Then you need to pay an electrician to install the high voltage safety box. This can cost $500-$3000 depending on distance of outdoor cabling and if you have room in your breaker box.
You'll also need to pay for a hot tub moving company. There should be one company that services most of the hot tub companies around. It will have a bad website but you'll know it's real because they'll text you back.
Then, yes, privacy. I like the solution of installing privacy fence from a hardware store close to the tub. it's not a hard job if you dig your own holes. But it's a job. Or you could pay, probably $2k or so for this.
Last, chemicals. Your mileage may vary on this, and everyone has their own opinions. But what has worked best for me after trying many systems is something called "shocking" your tub. Every time you use the tub you put in a few tablespoons of chlorine granules. It evaporates overnight and next time you enter the tub it will have a low level. It's an alternative to other systems that try to have active chlorine at a low level all the time, but it's what is simplist and doesn't require lots of water test kits and expensive chemicals and stuff. I change the water entirely every few months as well.
posted by bbqturtle at 1:00 PM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
What I'd recommend is look for an operating used tub. You should be able to find one in the $2k-$3k range. They aren't particularly more popular in cities vs rural areas.
Then you need to pay an electrician to install the high voltage safety box. This can cost $500-$3000 depending on distance of outdoor cabling and if you have room in your breaker box.
You'll also need to pay for a hot tub moving company. There should be one company that services most of the hot tub companies around. It will have a bad website but you'll know it's real because they'll text you back.
Then, yes, privacy. I like the solution of installing privacy fence from a hardware store close to the tub. it's not a hard job if you dig your own holes. But it's a job. Or you could pay, probably $2k or so for this.
Last, chemicals. Your mileage may vary on this, and everyone has their own opinions. But what has worked best for me after trying many systems is something called "shocking" your tub. Every time you use the tub you put in a few tablespoons of chlorine granules. It evaporates overnight and next time you enter the tub it will have a low level. It's an alternative to other systems that try to have active chlorine at a low level all the time, but it's what is simplist and doesn't require lots of water test kits and expensive chemicals and stuff. I change the water entirely every few months as well.
posted by bbqturtle at 1:00 PM on July 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
The alternative to all of the above is to go to a dealer. They will charge you $8k-$18k, and it will cover the tub and transport. They will try to upsell you on chemicals. You still need to do the electric and fencing.
posted by bbqturtle at 1:02 PM on July 24, 2022
posted by bbqturtle at 1:02 PM on July 24, 2022
if it is cold where you live and you intend to use it in winter...consider optimizing for getting in and out of the tub while spending as little time as possible exposed to the elements.
posted by mmascolino at 1:09 PM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mmascolino at 1:09 PM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Whether you buy new or used, get the specs for what the tub needs to sit on and figure out what that's going to cost before you pull the trigger. We got a swim spa "cheap" off of Craigslist, and beyond the electrical and plumbing, it needed a beefy concrete slap to sit on. This ended up being quite a bit more expensive than we planned on.
Modern spas, even swim spas, are, I think, a little less "above-ground pool" than this one was, so it's likely that they don't need as beefy a platform, but that was an unexpected additional cost.
posted by straw at 4:47 PM on July 24, 2022
Modern spas, even swim spas, are, I think, a little less "above-ground pool" than this one was, so it's likely that they don't need as beefy a platform, but that was an unexpected additional cost.
posted by straw at 4:47 PM on July 24, 2022
Cedar hot tubs don't seem too pricy to me compared to the average non-wooden tub. The footprint is smaller but you'll still need a pad for the filter and pump, an electrician to run electrical, &c. I like them, they smell lovely, but they don't have all the fancy jets and things that the regular tubs do (if that is important). There are regular tubs that come equipped with salt water sanitation.
There are also plug-n-play hot tubs that just require an outlet, including mini 2 person spas. I have no idea how satisfying these are because it doesn't seem like they'd be very powerful, but maybe you mostly just want hot water and filtration.
My tap water report shows an average of 2.5 PPM of chloramine (as chlorine). This is what we water our garden with. 2.5 PPM is pretty much perfect for chlorine levels in a hot tub (when not shocking) so if you maintain that level it's fine to put in your garden. However, some municipalities require that hot tubs be drained into the sewer.
If you do end up getting a hot tub (or even just want to do more research) I highly recommend the articles and forum at Trouble Free Pool. I pay for their app, Pool Math, to calculate chemicals for my pool and hot tub, log additions, and keep a record of test levels and maintenance. I have a professional test kit (Taylor K-2006C) which is heads and shoulders above the worthless test strips and necessary in order to use Pool Math.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:01 PM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are also plug-n-play hot tubs that just require an outlet, including mini 2 person spas. I have no idea how satisfying these are because it doesn't seem like they'd be very powerful, but maybe you mostly just want hot water and filtration.
My tap water report shows an average of 2.5 PPM of chloramine (as chlorine). This is what we water our garden with. 2.5 PPM is pretty much perfect for chlorine levels in a hot tub (when not shocking) so if you maintain that level it's fine to put in your garden. However, some municipalities require that hot tubs be drained into the sewer.
If you do end up getting a hot tub (or even just want to do more research) I highly recommend the articles and forum at Trouble Free Pool. I pay for their app, Pool Math, to calculate chemicals for my pool and hot tub, log additions, and keep a record of test levels and maintenance. I have a professional test kit (Taylor K-2006C) which is heads and shoulders above the worthless test strips and necessary in order to use Pool Math.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:01 PM on July 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Hottub checklist:
posted by zenon at 9:24 AM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
- you can't place your hottub below power lines. Local rules might require a fence.
- size: a small hottub is great- a 1000 liter weights only about 1000 kilos. Fits four nicely & isn't cost prohibitive to fill or maintain.
- heavy: hot tubs require a stable flat surface that can can get wet
- power: proper high voltage @240 is standard because it's better - for me it means it will heat up faster
- power safety: code will require a shut off switch and make require additional grounding. I have both.
- power supply: you will need to run 240v 30 amp from your power box to your hottub location. Your panel may not have that extra capacity to offer. That might be prohibitively expensive for just one need, or it might be a necessary upgrade to your house YMMWV
- features: Simple is best. I have two big jets and 8 small. And a light. The only thing it doesn't have is ozone, which wears out (grrr) but I find provide nicer water quality.
- Water: your local water impacts the chemistry and cost of having a hottub. you might need to descale your tub, you might be able to afford just cycling the water out. the best resource is your local pool supply - they exist to oversell you on all the chemicals but are still worth consulting to get started.
- chemistry: I find that keeping a tight control of the pH is key. Chlorine (and most substitutes) is acidic so too much of that burns the nose and irritates the eyes, but too little and your tub won't stay clean. Bromide has a metallic smell that some people don't like on them, I'm a fan. It costs more but hot tubs really don't consume that much. An ozonator helps zap the impurities in the water so a lower level of chemicals are needed (generally). There is much to be said about chemistry but the short version is that you want to treat the water until it is properly buffered and stable. Cheap kits won't provide all the necessary tests, I have the 6 way kit from Taylor. Seconding using an app or website to stay on it. Trouble Free Forums are great - here's their wiki on hot tubs that covers setup procedures in more detail.
- brand: Nordic. I have a small round one from them
posted by zenon at 9:24 AM on July 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
* Costco has good tubs for cheap : $2000 for a small tub on sale is possible. Many of them run fine on 120V so you won't need an electrician.
* I struggled with bromine and chlorine chemicals for a while, and finally went with a salt water system (which uses electrolysis to make chlorine). Whatever you choose, it will take some learning and fine-tuning.
* electricity costs can be higher than the purchase cost in a few years, so prefer a more expensive well-insulated tub to a cheaper one if you have the choice.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 3:35 PM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
* I struggled with bromine and chlorine chemicals for a while, and finally went with a salt water system (which uses electrolysis to make chlorine). Whatever you choose, it will take some learning and fine-tuning.
* electricity costs can be higher than the purchase cost in a few years, so prefer a more expensive well-insulated tub to a cheaper one if you have the choice.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 3:35 PM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: This is all incredibly helpful. Thank you!
posted by amandabee at 3:28 PM on August 24, 2022
posted by amandabee at 3:28 PM on August 24, 2022
Best answer: Former Hot Tub technician and current owner, AMA.
There is a lot of variation on hot tub needs/requirements from place to place because of local water chemistry and local temperatures. It was hilarious attending spa training in Arizona hearing the issues the locals had verses the issues I had doing maintenance in a Canadian ski town.
Keeping that in mind some thoughts:
1) I don't really see a need for more privacy because of tubs than that provided by an in use deck/patio but YMMV. Sitting in my tub isn't any different than sitting on my deck. On the hill it is common for customers to have tubs on decks/patios directly facing runs and ski in/out paths.
2) Even professionally we just used simple four test test strips. Because even a very large residential tub is only a couple thousand litres compared to the volume of a pool just changing out the water semi annually/as needed will correct a lot of issues that would rate messing with complicated chemistry that you can test with more complicated test kits. But then again water is cheap and fairly plentiful in my area. Really the only thing we look at is chlorine and pH levels for safety with a glance at dissolved solids as an indicator that water needs to be changed.
3) Also because of the small volume of a residential tub even if users are straight from a shower chlorine levels in a tub will drop to zero in a short time once people are sitting in it. bbqturtle's method of just dumping in a measured amount of chlorine after every use works pretty well if you are using the tub at least a couple times a week. You'll have to calibrate how much but once you have it dialed in you can then use the test strips every week or two to check on pH or is your usage changes. If the tub gets used for extended periods (like an hour or two in a day) you can augment with a mini puck or two tossed into the filter basket to provide some continuous injection.
4) Tubs can require a lot of maintenance. Replacing jets, filters, pumps, spa paks etc. will often be more than the cost of chemicals over a long enough period. Like the element I replaced last year on my personal (25 year old) tub cost as much as year's worth of chemicals and I didn't have to pay someone to put it in.
5) Tubs don't like to sit drained. If it gets below freezing you either keep your tub operating or take extensive measures to make sure it is completely drained otherwise freezing damage will occur. Something to keep in mind if looking at used tubs.
6) If water maintenance gets away from you and the water greens some oxygen shock can help the chlorine do its job.
7) Small plastic tubs are shallower than larger plastic tubs as a side effect of how they are manufactured and depth also varies by manufacturer so if you are comparing different models consider where the water depth will be when you are sitting in the tub.
8) If the pH is too low the chlorine struggles to do its job so one needs to adjust that first if the chemistry gets away from you. Also the tub will take a while to stabilize so don't test more frequently than every hour when you are making adjustments.
9) Look into requirements for security (fences). In my area a self latching fence etc. isn't required if there is a lock on the lid.
10) in my area it is common for spas to require up to 60A circuits. If the wire install is complicated (IE: expensive) it can be worth the cost of just installing 60A wire (or conduit anyways) to future proof your installation. Canada requires the actual wire hooked to the hot tub be copper but only for 1.2m; I think areas governed by the NEC are similar. It is really common to switch to aluminum for the run between the panel and the last 1.2m for cost reasons. This is not the aluminum wiring you hear horror stories about and if installed by a competent person isn't a problem. You also can't have electrical outlets within a certain distance of the tub.
I'm biased but I like MAXX/American Whirlpool spas.
posted by Mitheral at 3:39 PM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
There is a lot of variation on hot tub needs/requirements from place to place because of local water chemistry and local temperatures. It was hilarious attending spa training in Arizona hearing the issues the locals had verses the issues I had doing maintenance in a Canadian ski town.
Keeping that in mind some thoughts:
1) I don't really see a need for more privacy because of tubs than that provided by an in use deck/patio but YMMV. Sitting in my tub isn't any different than sitting on my deck. On the hill it is common for customers to have tubs on decks/patios directly facing runs and ski in/out paths.
2) Even professionally we just used simple four test test strips. Because even a very large residential tub is only a couple thousand litres compared to the volume of a pool just changing out the water semi annually/as needed will correct a lot of issues that would rate messing with complicated chemistry that you can test with more complicated test kits. But then again water is cheap and fairly plentiful in my area. Really the only thing we look at is chlorine and pH levels for safety with a glance at dissolved solids as an indicator that water needs to be changed.
3) Also because of the small volume of a residential tub even if users are straight from a shower chlorine levels in a tub will drop to zero in a short time once people are sitting in it. bbqturtle's method of just dumping in a measured amount of chlorine after every use works pretty well if you are using the tub at least a couple times a week. You'll have to calibrate how much but once you have it dialed in you can then use the test strips every week or two to check on pH or is your usage changes. If the tub gets used for extended periods (like an hour or two in a day) you can augment with a mini puck or two tossed into the filter basket to provide some continuous injection.
4) Tubs can require a lot of maintenance. Replacing jets, filters, pumps, spa paks etc. will often be more than the cost of chemicals over a long enough period. Like the element I replaced last year on my personal (25 year old) tub cost as much as year's worth of chemicals and I didn't have to pay someone to put it in.
5) Tubs don't like to sit drained. If it gets below freezing you either keep your tub operating or take extensive measures to make sure it is completely drained otherwise freezing damage will occur. Something to keep in mind if looking at used tubs.
6) If water maintenance gets away from you and the water greens some oxygen shock can help the chlorine do its job.
7) Small plastic tubs are shallower than larger plastic tubs as a side effect of how they are manufactured and depth also varies by manufacturer so if you are comparing different models consider where the water depth will be when you are sitting in the tub.
8) If the pH is too low the chlorine struggles to do its job so one needs to adjust that first if the chemistry gets away from you. Also the tub will take a while to stabilize so don't test more frequently than every hour when you are making adjustments.
9) Look into requirements for security (fences). In my area a self latching fence etc. isn't required if there is a lock on the lid.
10) in my area it is common for spas to require up to 60A circuits. If the wire install is complicated (IE: expensive) it can be worth the cost of just installing 60A wire (or conduit anyways) to future proof your installation. Canada requires the actual wire hooked to the hot tub be copper but only for 1.2m; I think areas governed by the NEC are similar. It is really common to switch to aluminum for the run between the panel and the last 1.2m for cost reasons. This is not the aluminum wiring you hear horror stories about and if installed by a competent person isn't a problem. You also can't have electrical outlets within a certain distance of the tub.
I'm biased but I like MAXX/American Whirlpool spas.
posted by Mitheral at 3:39 PM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by Thorzdad at 9:28 AM on July 24, 2022 [6 favorites]