New rescue dog blues...organization edition
July 6, 2022 8:05 PM Subscribe
But this time, not about the dog exactly! But some strange things coming up with the organization we foster with that I am not feeling ethically great about.
So update on the foster dog I asked a question about: she's doing so much better! She now goes on walks outside, albeit still cautious at times, but walking confidently and she's excited to go outside and in the car! I can't tell you how many puppaccinos I have fed her while in the car... But that with the engage/disenage, along with her settling in seems to work. I am SO relieved. She is a very sweet dog.
Anyways, so like 4 days ago she went into heat. I have never had a dog in heat so I had to research more on what to do. I let the foster coordinator know because she was supposed to get her spay later this month. They mentioned something like that is strange, because it's "too soon" for this to happen. I thought they meant that because she was a year old. It wasn't until later today that I asked more and it turns out that this is the second time she's been in heat in the past month since they rescued her from the shelter.
I asked if we needed to plan to have her longer since I read that it can be risky to get a dog spayed during heat. Coordinator said not to worry about it, they have a vet that will do spays while the dogs are in heat. I said ok cool, vet knows way more than I do so great. But then they said they couldn't get an appointment with that vet, so we have to try another. They asked that other vet if they'd perform a spay while she was in heat and they said no, they have to wait a month post-heat. The coordinator wasn't happy with that because that delays the adoption process. So she told me to...just sneak the dog in there. I was like heh, excuse me?? And essentially they said that they don't know which dog of theirs is in heat from the rescue, just to not mention it to the vet techs and if they ask, deny it, and maybe they will still perform the spay. I...do not feel good about that. And I slightly voiced that I was uncomfortable with that (this is our second time fostering with this org, so I don't know the coordinator well) and they said they can get another volunteer to pick the foster dog up and drop them off if I'm not comfy. Otherwise, they can also try and see if their regular vet will take her in ASAP.
Does this seem weird? Am I overthinking this? If they have a vet they trust who knows that they're doing, who am I to question? But I also don't know how good I feel about them trying to sneak a dog in for spay. Wouldn't the vet immediately know she's in heat? I also voiced that I was worried about the aftercare since I read it can be a doozy for dogs who are in heat and this process has already been messy, so selfishly, I am also worried about the turmoil for the dog and our household.
I honestly feel a bit powerless here and I can't hold the dog hostage, but wanted to gauge if this is strange to anyone else. It's making me reconsider if I want to foster with this org again.
So update on the foster dog I asked a question about: she's doing so much better! She now goes on walks outside, albeit still cautious at times, but walking confidently and she's excited to go outside and in the car! I can't tell you how many puppaccinos I have fed her while in the car... But that with the engage/disenage, along with her settling in seems to work. I am SO relieved. She is a very sweet dog.
Anyways, so like 4 days ago she went into heat. I have never had a dog in heat so I had to research more on what to do. I let the foster coordinator know because she was supposed to get her spay later this month. They mentioned something like that is strange, because it's "too soon" for this to happen. I thought they meant that because she was a year old. It wasn't until later today that I asked more and it turns out that this is the second time she's been in heat in the past month since they rescued her from the shelter.
I asked if we needed to plan to have her longer since I read that it can be risky to get a dog spayed during heat. Coordinator said not to worry about it, they have a vet that will do spays while the dogs are in heat. I said ok cool, vet knows way more than I do so great. But then they said they couldn't get an appointment with that vet, so we have to try another. They asked that other vet if they'd perform a spay while she was in heat and they said no, they have to wait a month post-heat. The coordinator wasn't happy with that because that delays the adoption process. So she told me to...just sneak the dog in there. I was like heh, excuse me?? And essentially they said that they don't know which dog of theirs is in heat from the rescue, just to not mention it to the vet techs and if they ask, deny it, and maybe they will still perform the spay. I...do not feel good about that. And I slightly voiced that I was uncomfortable with that (this is our second time fostering with this org, so I don't know the coordinator well) and they said they can get another volunteer to pick the foster dog up and drop them off if I'm not comfy. Otherwise, they can also try and see if their regular vet will take her in ASAP.
Does this seem weird? Am I overthinking this? If they have a vet they trust who knows that they're doing, who am I to question? But I also don't know how good I feel about them trying to sneak a dog in for spay. Wouldn't the vet immediately know she's in heat? I also voiced that I was worried about the aftercare since I read it can be a doozy for dogs who are in heat and this process has already been messy, so selfishly, I am also worried about the turmoil for the dog and our household.
I honestly feel a bit powerless here and I can't hold the dog hostage, but wanted to gauge if this is strange to anyone else. It's making me reconsider if I want to foster with this org again.
I would be uncomfortable with this. The rescue people are probably thinking that if their regular vet spays dogs in heat, that means it's safe and there's no real harm in trying to sneak their way into having the other vet do it. But it doesn't seem smart to me. It's hard to imagine the vet wouldn't realize the dog was in heat before starting the surgery. If not, they'll probably realize it during the surgery. It sounds like it's typical for vets to charge more for spaying a dog in heat. The vet might also be annoyed and refuse to see dogs from this rescue group again. Maybe the rescue group doesn't care about that. But my biggest concern would be that if the vet they're using doesn't have experience spaying dogs in heat, the surgery may not go well. I certainly wouldn't try to get my own dog spayed while in heat by a vet who didn't want to spay dogs in heat.
posted by Redstart at 8:56 PM on July 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 8:56 PM on July 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
You are right to be concerned. I would just tell the rescue that you’re not comfortable with this and that you’ll wait until a month after her heat. If you’d rather be less confrontational, you can just cheerfully tell them you don’t mind keeping her until she can get spayed in a month. But either way, just be very firm about your decision and don’t hedge or leave room for them to work around your discomfort.
I think your primary moral obligation right now is the foster dog. Once they’ve found a home for that dog, I’d stop working with them, as well as report them to the vets in the area.
posted by lunasol at 9:46 PM on July 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
I think your primary moral obligation right now is the foster dog. Once they’ve found a home for that dog, I’d stop working with them, as well as report them to the vets in the area.
posted by lunasol at 9:46 PM on July 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
I seethe with frustration when people ask other people to violate ethics because it will make things easier, even in the tiniest ways. Having worked not with fosters but with other volunteer-and-low-paid-staff orgs, I also wonder whether the person who asked this of you is passing on a tactic they learned from leadership, or just trying to make do with a high caseload, and assuming that they know what’s best, like Redstart says. Given that this vet trade paper says, you *can* spay dogs in heat, but there’s a higher risk of complications, including swelling and bleeding, the foster org should be taking your worries about aftercare seriously! (*And* for anyone who might adopt her, if there’s a need for follow-up care, or the consequences of the surgery trauma making it hard for her to settle in to a new home…)
You could write a cheery email to the person who asked you, CCing the volunteer coordinator or some other person respected in the foster org who you think would make a good bystander (hopefully not their boss, but if needs must, do it), linking what you’ve read on the risks and saying something like, “There are extra risks that come with spaying in heat, including the possibility she will need treatment from me at home for swelling and bleeding. Taking her in to a vet who refused to spay her in heat and saying that she is *not* in heat would be inappropriate, and could strain my relationship or the org’s relationship with that vet. I’m going to make an appointment for a month from now. It has taken a while to build this dog’s trust and comfort with me, and so it seems prudent to avoid risks that might break that trust or intensify the level of foster care she needs. Thank you for understanding! We all want what’s best for this good girl.”
If you’re feeling salty, you might ask if it’s a shelter protocol to try to get dogs spayed while they’re in heat. If this is just one shady (probably overworked) coordinator making off-the-cuff remarks, that’s one thing, but if it’s SOP for the organization? Maybe you could talk to someone at the ASPCA - they might have a better idea of how to salvage the good and root out the bad from this foster org’s policies. Good luck!
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 12:46 AM on July 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
You could write a cheery email to the person who asked you, CCing the volunteer coordinator or some other person respected in the foster org who you think would make a good bystander (hopefully not their boss, but if needs must, do it), linking what you’ve read on the risks and saying something like, “There are extra risks that come with spaying in heat, including the possibility she will need treatment from me at home for swelling and bleeding. Taking her in to a vet who refused to spay her in heat and saying that she is *not* in heat would be inappropriate, and could strain my relationship or the org’s relationship with that vet. I’m going to make an appointment for a month from now. It has taken a while to build this dog’s trust and comfort with me, and so it seems prudent to avoid risks that might break that trust or intensify the level of foster care she needs. Thank you for understanding! We all want what’s best for this good girl.”
If you’re feeling salty, you might ask if it’s a shelter protocol to try to get dogs spayed while they’re in heat. If this is just one shady (probably overworked) coordinator making off-the-cuff remarks, that’s one thing, but if it’s SOP for the organization? Maybe you could talk to someone at the ASPCA - they might have a better idea of how to salvage the good and root out the bad from this foster org’s policies. Good luck!
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 12:46 AM on July 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Push back, with compassion for the difficulties of the humans involved.
posted by amtho at 7:16 AM on July 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 7:16 AM on July 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have a new dog and have been spending time in forums. Lots of people(non-vets) are wildly overconfident about their veterinary medicine expertise and give tons of advice. The vet said No. I'd calmly reply that you don't feel comfortable with the plan and would be happy to take the dog in to be spayed when she's been out of heat for several weeks.
Rescues ask vets for a break on fees and vets try to work with them. Lying to vets in that situation is not cool, is unethical. also, this is their highly trained job, and they'll know. Rescue organizations do not appear to be regulated in any way, they vary wildly. I think you'll get farther with That's so not cool; I can't do that than an ethics discussion.
posted by theora55 at 7:58 AM on July 7, 2022
Rescues ask vets for a break on fees and vets try to work with them. Lying to vets in that situation is not cool, is unethical. also, this is their highly trained job, and they'll know. Rescue organizations do not appear to be regulated in any way, they vary wildly. I think you'll get farther with That's so not cool; I can't do that than an ethics discussion.
posted by theora55 at 7:58 AM on July 7, 2022
"it turns out that this is the second time she's been in heat in the past month"
I think you've buried the lede here.
Forget spaying, your dog needs to see a vet as soon as possible to find out what is going on.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:48 AM on July 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think you've buried the lede here.
Forget spaying, your dog needs to see a vet as soon as possible to find out what is going on.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:48 AM on July 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, she needs to be seen by a vet ASAP.
Dogs go into heat every 6-8 months, depending on the individual, so this could be a serious problem.
And yes, a vet will be able to tell she's in heat.
The main reason most vets won't spay an in heat dog is that the uterus is highly vascularized, to the point that blood leaks through the vessels (which is where the bloody discharge you see during heat comes from).
posted by Archipelago at 10:34 AM on July 7, 2022
Dogs go into heat every 6-8 months, depending on the individual, so this could be a serious problem.
And yes, a vet will be able to tell she's in heat.
The main reason most vets won't spay an in heat dog is that the uterus is highly vascularized, to the point that blood leaks through the vessels (which is where the bloody discharge you see during heat comes from).
posted by Archipelago at 10:34 AM on July 7, 2022
When I was a kid, our dog died during spay surgery -- she was either in heat or pregnant, can't remember which.
posted by amtho at 10:43 AM on July 7, 2022
posted by amtho at 10:43 AM on July 7, 2022
With regards to the organization, I would approach this as an educational issue for the coordinator. Specifically I would respond that you're uncomfortable surprising a vet with a dog in heat due to rrrrrrrrrt's link and then offer to keep her for an extra month.
But she should be seen by a vet ASAP anyway.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:12 AM on July 7, 2022
But she should be seen by a vet ASAP anyway.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:12 AM on July 7, 2022
Response by poster: Yeah, she needs to be seen by a vet ASAP.
Dogs go into heat every 6-8 months, depending on the individual, so this could be a serious problem.
Ok yes I mentioned this to the coordinator too! I was like...Isn't that weird? I said that I read about pylometra, is that a concern? And the foster said if she is acting normal and not having any symptoms, it might be a split cycle so they don't want me to take her to the vet until her regular check up. I do not have the money to take her to a vet for an emergency, and can't charge it without their authorization (the previous place I fostered had a set emergency vet we could take them to where they had the rescue's card on file, given we give the rescue a call beforehand. This rescue does not share that info.)
Otherwise, I'm glad that this is strange to other folks. I'll push back and see what happens. Thanks all!
posted by socky bottoms at 12:58 PM on July 7, 2022
Dogs go into heat every 6-8 months, depending on the individual, so this could be a serious problem.
Ok yes I mentioned this to the coordinator too! I was like...Isn't that weird? I said that I read about pylometra, is that a concern? And the foster said if she is acting normal and not having any symptoms, it might be a split cycle so they don't want me to take her to the vet until her regular check up. I do not have the money to take her to a vet for an emergency, and can't charge it without their authorization (the previous place I fostered had a set emergency vet we could take them to where they had the rescue's card on file, given we give the rescue a call beforehand. This rescue does not share that info.)
Otherwise, I'm glad that this is strange to other folks. I'll push back and see what happens. Thanks all!
posted by socky bottoms at 12:58 PM on July 7, 2022
Please memail me, I can help with veterinary costs. I would really like you to be able to provide the level of care you think the dog needs. I hope you don't think this sounds weird.
posted by RustyBrooks at 6:23 PM on July 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by RustyBrooks at 6:23 PM on July 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: RustyBrooks, you are so kind! I wanted to come back with an update. So we got them to let us see the vet (and pushback on the spay, but they are still trying to get it set up soon with the vet who does spay dogs in heat.) we sorta exaggerated and said she was having bloody diarrhea to get them to give the go ahead for the vet. So she will at least be checked out. I don’t want to foster with this org again though, on top of this, theyve recently done some shady things. Thanks all for your help!
posted by socky bottoms at 10:09 AM on July 9, 2022
posted by socky bottoms at 10:09 AM on July 9, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
I don't know where you live but some rescues around the world are not putting the dogs first and are making a ton of money doing this work.
posted by dobbs at 8:45 PM on July 6, 2022 [5 favorites]