Any composers here?
June 26, 2022 11:00 AM Subscribe
I've been playing the piano and "composing" since I was a kid, but I'm still just an amateur and would like to improve. I would appreciate advice from more experienced composers.
I've always loved playing the piano and I've been scribbling short songs and melodies in my notebooks for more than 20 years. Now I'm in my 30s and I want to improve my skills and possibly record some of the pieces in a studio, and MAYBE even upload them to Spotify or some other platform. I'm also considering learning at least the basics of violin or cello to add to my piano compositions.
I had weekly piano and music theory lessons for 12 years, from ages 7 until 19, and piano has been my main hobby during those years, so technically I'm able to play anything (although my skills have deteriorated over the years), and I understand how music and harmony works. But I never studied composition, and although I think the melody itself is usually good, some of my songs sound boring or the structure of the song is confusing, or I feel like something is missing and I can't figure out what it is. Or I write just a very short melody and even though it sounds good, it's hard for me to compose the rest of the song. I would like to compose songs which really resonate with people, but some of my compositions sound very "meh" to me and I can't figure out how to make them better (although I'm probably overly critical of my own compositions). And at the same time there's so many piano songs which are simple (e.g. Ludovico Einaudi, Yiruma etc.) yet beautiful and millions of people love them, and I would love to learn how to compose such songs. I wrote a couple of jazzy or more dramatic songs, but most of my compositions can probably be described as relaxing/melancholy piano and I enjoy writing these the most.
If you're composing music (professionally or just as a hobby), I'd be very happy for any kind of advice, especially:
1) Which books/websites/apps/youtube channels would you recommend to help me understand composition and improve my composition skills?
2) Did someone teach you or did you study composition by yourself? Should I pay for in-person composition lessons or is this generally not necessary if you pretty much understand the instrument and music theory?
3) Which app or program do you use to write music? Or which one do you think would be best for piano or piano+violin/cello compositions? I've always written on paper and I want to have my compositions organised in a better way.
4) How do you make sure a similar song doesn't already exist? It's very frustrating when I find out that some part of an already existing song sounds similar to something I've spent hours working on. But then again with just 88 keys and a limited number of combinations that sound good to the human ear, I sometimes feel like all the "good" melodies must have already been written, and that I can't possibly write something completely unique and original...
Thanks!
I've always loved playing the piano and I've been scribbling short songs and melodies in my notebooks for more than 20 years. Now I'm in my 30s and I want to improve my skills and possibly record some of the pieces in a studio, and MAYBE even upload them to Spotify or some other platform. I'm also considering learning at least the basics of violin or cello to add to my piano compositions.
I had weekly piano and music theory lessons for 12 years, from ages 7 until 19, and piano has been my main hobby during those years, so technically I'm able to play anything (although my skills have deteriorated over the years), and I understand how music and harmony works. But I never studied composition, and although I think the melody itself is usually good, some of my songs sound boring or the structure of the song is confusing, or I feel like something is missing and I can't figure out what it is. Or I write just a very short melody and even though it sounds good, it's hard for me to compose the rest of the song. I would like to compose songs which really resonate with people, but some of my compositions sound very "meh" to me and I can't figure out how to make them better (although I'm probably overly critical of my own compositions). And at the same time there's so many piano songs which are simple (e.g. Ludovico Einaudi, Yiruma etc.) yet beautiful and millions of people love them, and I would love to learn how to compose such songs. I wrote a couple of jazzy or more dramatic songs, but most of my compositions can probably be described as relaxing/melancholy piano and I enjoy writing these the most.
If you're composing music (professionally or just as a hobby), I'd be very happy for any kind of advice, especially:
1) Which books/websites/apps/youtube channels would you recommend to help me understand composition and improve my composition skills?
2) Did someone teach you or did you study composition by yourself? Should I pay for in-person composition lessons or is this generally not necessary if you pretty much understand the instrument and music theory?
3) Which app or program do you use to write music? Or which one do you think would be best for piano or piano+violin/cello compositions? I've always written on paper and I want to have my compositions organised in a better way.
4) How do you make sure a similar song doesn't already exist? It's very frustrating when I find out that some part of an already existing song sounds similar to something I've spent hours working on. But then again with just 88 keys and a limited number of combinations that sound good to the human ear, I sometimes feel like all the "good" melodies must have already been written, and that I can't possibly write something completely unique and original...
Thanks!
1. Alan Belkin's Musical Composition is a good recent overview of what goes into thinking like a (classical) composer. Reading it would probably give you a good sense of what sort of skills you don't have yet and might want to pick up (or don't care about). I am also a fan of the old The Shaping Forces in Music by Ernst Toch for the same sort of thing.
2. I studied by myself, received an undergraduate degree in composition, and have taken some private lessons after that. I think it would be worthwhile for you try composition lessons, at least to the extent of taking something you have written and presenting it to an experienced composer for feedback. (*) You will almost certainly find that 1) they have a lot of things to say about the things you want to improve at ("boring" / " confusing" / "something is missing") and 2) they have even more to say about fundamental compositional skills that you think you're okay at but don't realize how tricky they are. I know you say you "pretty much understand music theory", but for example Aldwell & Schachter's Harmony and Voice Leading, which really only covers things I would consider to be fundamentals, is intended for use over the course of four semesters.
It is up to you to decide how much you want to care about item 2! By the fact that you are using the word "composer" I assume that you're more interested in that side of things than, say, a rock musician. Once you actually get some feedback you can decide how much you want to mostly just create some things that sound nice to you (nothing wrong with that) as opposed to learning and applying the finer points of the craft.
3. You should start out with MuseScore; it's free and will more than meet your needs for the present (and maybe forever).
4. I just don't worry about it. Occasionally I'll realize that something I thought was original was actually based on something I heard, and then I either throw it out and try something else or tweak it enough to be different.
(*) If you want some free feedback from a less-experienced composer, MeMail me; I'd be happy to look at a page or so of something you've done and give my impression of where you stand.
posted by dfan at 12:51 PM on June 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
2. I studied by myself, received an undergraduate degree in composition, and have taken some private lessons after that. I think it would be worthwhile for you try composition lessons, at least to the extent of taking something you have written and presenting it to an experienced composer for feedback. (*) You will almost certainly find that 1) they have a lot of things to say about the things you want to improve at ("boring" / " confusing" / "something is missing") and 2) they have even more to say about fundamental compositional skills that you think you're okay at but don't realize how tricky they are. I know you say you "pretty much understand music theory", but for example Aldwell & Schachter's Harmony and Voice Leading, which really only covers things I would consider to be fundamentals, is intended for use over the course of four semesters.
It is up to you to decide how much you want to care about item 2! By the fact that you are using the word "composer" I assume that you're more interested in that side of things than, say, a rock musician. Once you actually get some feedback you can decide how much you want to mostly just create some things that sound nice to you (nothing wrong with that) as opposed to learning and applying the finer points of the craft.
3. You should start out with MuseScore; it's free and will more than meet your needs for the present (and maybe forever).
4. I just don't worry about it. Occasionally I'll realize that something I thought was original was actually based on something I heard, and then I either throw it out and try something else or tweak it enough to be different.
(*) If you want some free feedback from a less-experienced composer, MeMail me; I'd be happy to look at a page or so of something you've done and give my impression of where you stand.
posted by dfan at 12:51 PM on June 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
The music I write doesn’t require a lot of music theory competence, so grain of salt: but I don’t think “blah” songs are improved by more technical study because what they are usually lacking is passion, soul, or other largely undefinable qualities. Smells Like Teen Spirit was a “borrowed” riff played by self-taught novices requiring zero study, but it roared from the depths of somewhere profound into the souls of millions.
My actual advice: Have you considered a writing partner?
posted by kapers at 1:53 PM on June 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
My actual advice: Have you considered a writing partner?
posted by kapers at 1:53 PM on June 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
How do you make sure a similar song doesn't already exist?
You don’t, really. Even George Harrison got dinged. If the actual Beatles can’t help it, you shouldn’t worry either. Unless you’re making money, nobody will actually care except for maybe a random mean tweet.
posted by kevinbelt at 1:53 PM on June 26, 2022
You don’t, really. Even George Harrison got dinged. If the actual Beatles can’t help it, you shouldn’t worry either. Unless you’re making money, nobody will actually care except for maybe a random mean tweet.
posted by kevinbelt at 1:53 PM on June 26, 2022
Hi! Formally trained composer here, now spending more time teaching than creating stuff myself.
Firstly: you have the hard parts covered, you've got ideas, skill with an instrument, and enthusiasm. The rest is developing craft.
Secondly: whether you should take lessons on other instruments depends what you want from the experience, if it's just a broader palette of sounds then I agree with Daily Alice that there's a world of synths and sample packs out there to scratch that itch. However if what you're after a more thorough understanding of what those instruments are capable of and what kinds of things work naturally on them, then go for it. For me, gaining a basic visceral understanding of what it's like to play a bowed string instrument, what it's like to play a brass instrument, what's it's like to play a woodwind instrument, etc. were valuable experiences.
To your questions:
1) Which books/websites/apps/youtube channels would you recommend to help me understand composition and improve my composition skills?
These are all books, listed in the order I'd engage with them:
Sounds and Scores - Henry Mancini (yes, that Henry Mancini of many iconic film themes, approaches composition from the angle of arranging - starting with a tune and building out an arrangement from there)
Musical Composition - Reginald Smith Brindle (classical perspective, pretty thorough)
The Fundamentals of Musical Composition - Arnold Schoenberg (classical perspective, influential)
The Study of Orchestration - Samuel Adler (focused on understanding the specific capabilities of instruments and how to write for them individually, and combined as groups)
Techniques of the Contemporary Composer - David Cope (probably the most pragmatic summary of developments in classical composition through the 20th century, dig into this one if you want to get a bit weird)
2) Did someone teach you or did you study composition by yourself? Should I pay for in-person composition lessons or is this generally not necessary if you pretty much understand the instrument and music theory?
I did. 1:1 composition/arranging lessons, then a mix of 1:1 lessons and studio style study at university. I'd say lessons are invaluable both for developing your craft and voice and discovering where your own creative blind spots are. I'd make this a higher priority than taking lessons on new instruments.
3) Which app or program do you use to write music? Or which one do you think would be best for piano or piano+violin/cello compositions? I've always written on paper and I want to have my compositions organised in a better way.
I used to use Sibelius a lot, but it's pretty expensive, and can be bloated/awkward in the same way as MS Word (they have a similar long and messy development history with clunky things grandfathered in under the hood from 25+ years ago). It's a good program, but probably overkill for your needs. Musescore is free and will most likely do most of what you'll want to do. It's kind of amazing really. You'll probably only need to go looking for something else if you get very pernickety about your page formatting, or want to get into non-traditional scoring methods, in which case pen and paper beat most software options anyway as long as you have a steady hand.
4) How do you make sure a similar song doesn't already exist? It's very frustrating when I find out that some part of an already existing song sounds similar to something I've spent hours working on. But then again with just 88 keys and a limited number of combinations that sound good to the human ear, I sometimes feel like all the "good" melodies must have already been written, and that I can't possibly write something completely unique and original...
Like others have said: you don't. Legally it's only an issue if you're making solid money from a composition and someone wealthy and litigious notices. And in that situation it sometimes doesn't matter if you have done something original, some people will sue over a similar 'vibe' (see the estate of Marvin Gaye vs. Pharell and Robin Thicke). Artistically, even if you're starting from the same basic musical idea, if you get good with your craft in terms of developing a musical idea then it doesn't matter. This is coming from a pretty old-school classical/jazz viewpoint, but to me how you mutate an idea over time throughout a composition, build an arrangement around it, harmonise and reharmonise it, etc. that's important and how you show real skill as a composer.
posted by threecheesetrees at 5:18 PM on June 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Firstly: you have the hard parts covered, you've got ideas, skill with an instrument, and enthusiasm. The rest is developing craft.
Secondly: whether you should take lessons on other instruments depends what you want from the experience, if it's just a broader palette of sounds then I agree with Daily Alice that there's a world of synths and sample packs out there to scratch that itch. However if what you're after a more thorough understanding of what those instruments are capable of and what kinds of things work naturally on them, then go for it. For me, gaining a basic visceral understanding of what it's like to play a bowed string instrument, what it's like to play a brass instrument, what's it's like to play a woodwind instrument, etc. were valuable experiences.
To your questions:
1) Which books/websites/apps/youtube channels would you recommend to help me understand composition and improve my composition skills?
These are all books, listed in the order I'd engage with them:
Sounds and Scores - Henry Mancini (yes, that Henry Mancini of many iconic film themes, approaches composition from the angle of arranging - starting with a tune and building out an arrangement from there)
Musical Composition - Reginald Smith Brindle (classical perspective, pretty thorough)
The Fundamentals of Musical Composition - Arnold Schoenberg (classical perspective, influential)
The Study of Orchestration - Samuel Adler (focused on understanding the specific capabilities of instruments and how to write for them individually, and combined as groups)
Techniques of the Contemporary Composer - David Cope (probably the most pragmatic summary of developments in classical composition through the 20th century, dig into this one if you want to get a bit weird)
2) Did someone teach you or did you study composition by yourself? Should I pay for in-person composition lessons or is this generally not necessary if you pretty much understand the instrument and music theory?
I did. 1:1 composition/arranging lessons, then a mix of 1:1 lessons and studio style study at university. I'd say lessons are invaluable both for developing your craft and voice and discovering where your own creative blind spots are. I'd make this a higher priority than taking lessons on new instruments.
3) Which app or program do you use to write music? Or which one do you think would be best for piano or piano+violin/cello compositions? I've always written on paper and I want to have my compositions organised in a better way.
I used to use Sibelius a lot, but it's pretty expensive, and can be bloated/awkward in the same way as MS Word (they have a similar long and messy development history with clunky things grandfathered in under the hood from 25+ years ago). It's a good program, but probably overkill for your needs. Musescore is free and will most likely do most of what you'll want to do. It's kind of amazing really. You'll probably only need to go looking for something else if you get very pernickety about your page formatting, or want to get into non-traditional scoring methods, in which case pen and paper beat most software options anyway as long as you have a steady hand.
4) How do you make sure a similar song doesn't already exist? It's very frustrating when I find out that some part of an already existing song sounds similar to something I've spent hours working on. But then again with just 88 keys and a limited number of combinations that sound good to the human ear, I sometimes feel like all the "good" melodies must have already been written, and that I can't possibly write something completely unique and original...
Like others have said: you don't. Legally it's only an issue if you're making solid money from a composition and someone wealthy and litigious notices. And in that situation it sometimes doesn't matter if you have done something original, some people will sue over a similar 'vibe' (see the estate of Marvin Gaye vs. Pharell and Robin Thicke). Artistically, even if you're starting from the same basic musical idea, if you get good with your craft in terms of developing a musical idea then it doesn't matter. This is coming from a pretty old-school classical/jazz viewpoint, but to me how you mutate an idea over time throughout a composition, build an arrangement around it, harmonise and reharmonise it, etc. that's important and how you show real skill as a composer.
posted by threecheesetrees at 5:18 PM on June 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
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I'm also considering learning at least the basics of violin or cello to add to my piano compositions.
Way easier to get a synthesizer and play these parts on keys than to buy and learn to play stringed instruments if you don't already.
How do you make sure a similar song doesn't already exist?
The best songwriting advice I ever got from my guitar teacher (who writes and performs original music for a living) is, stop caring about this. I used to be paralyzed by it. Your song might sound similar to other songs and that's okay. People like to hear things that remind them of other things they already know.
posted by Daily Alice at 12:29 PM on June 26, 2022 [1 favorite]