Advice for dealing with physical aggression from a 4 year old
June 12, 2022 4:22 PM Subscribe
Our sweet, affectionate, loving (almost) 4 year old is having some issues with physical aggression. What has worked for you?
When frustrated, our child will scratch, hit, bite, kick, headbutt etc. The bites and scratches often draw blood.
This is usually happening when he's very tired or hungry and he doesn't get his way (often at the end of screen time).
He is otherwise very sweet and affectionate. He does not play rough with kids or animals, he snuggles about 80% of his waking hours, he blows kisses to strangers who are hurt. He gets a LOT of attention and physical affection and exercise. We have always talked about feelings in a non judgmental way.
My wife has far more success with him than I do, but that's not surprising. She's a very good person who is good at things.
We've tried:
Never hitting him
Showing what to do when we're upset
Offering alternative actions (deep breath, saying "argh", jumping, talking about his feelings)
Trying to identify and praise times when he reacts well to similar things
Saying "we love you and it's okay to be mad/sad/upset, but hitting is never okay"
Talking with him about it when he's calm
Holding his hands (gently) so he can't hit
Taking away treats/toys as a consequence (he's always been very good about accepting that, actually!)
Doing preparation 'drills'. When he's calm, try getting him to plan out what he can do next time he's upset. (Usually he chooses violence, so... Not working yet)
This is similar to a current issue we're having where he is refusing to poop in the toilet (WAY better than our previous issue of refusing to poop at all!) He seems to be stuck in a mode where he just has to say no, and he doesn't ever have a reason for it (that he can explain, anyway).
My wife can sometimes distract him until he forgets about being upset. I can usually distract him for a few minutes, but then he very calmly approaches me and bites (or whatever) anyway. With an odd look in his eyes that I can't really describe.
I know that this is likely to go away with time, but... It really sucks right now! He's such a perfect guy in so many ways, and I know he'll be happier once he finds a way to cope with these feelings!
Afterwards he's probably remorseful, but he won't apologize. "My mouth can't say sorry!" "Never ever tell me to say sorry!"
Any reading or practical advice is welcome. So far I haven't found any online articles that aren't just restatements of things we're already doing.
When frustrated, our child will scratch, hit, bite, kick, headbutt etc. The bites and scratches often draw blood.
This is usually happening when he's very tired or hungry and he doesn't get his way (often at the end of screen time).
He is otherwise very sweet and affectionate. He does not play rough with kids or animals, he snuggles about 80% of his waking hours, he blows kisses to strangers who are hurt. He gets a LOT of attention and physical affection and exercise. We have always talked about feelings in a non judgmental way.
My wife has far more success with him than I do, but that's not surprising. She's a very good person who is good at things.
We've tried:
Never hitting him
Showing what to do when we're upset
Offering alternative actions (deep breath, saying "argh", jumping, talking about his feelings)
Trying to identify and praise times when he reacts well to similar things
Saying "we love you and it's okay to be mad/sad/upset, but hitting is never okay"
Talking with him about it when he's calm
Holding his hands (gently) so he can't hit
Taking away treats/toys as a consequence (he's always been very good about accepting that, actually!)
Doing preparation 'drills'. When he's calm, try getting him to plan out what he can do next time he's upset. (Usually he chooses violence, so... Not working yet)
This is similar to a current issue we're having where he is refusing to poop in the toilet (WAY better than our previous issue of refusing to poop at all!) He seems to be stuck in a mode where he just has to say no, and he doesn't ever have a reason for it (that he can explain, anyway).
My wife can sometimes distract him until he forgets about being upset. I can usually distract him for a few minutes, but then he very calmly approaches me and bites (or whatever) anyway. With an odd look in his eyes that I can't really describe.
I know that this is likely to go away with time, but... It really sucks right now! He's such a perfect guy in so many ways, and I know he'll be happier once he finds a way to cope with these feelings!
Afterwards he's probably remorseful, but he won't apologize. "My mouth can't say sorry!" "Never ever tell me to say sorry!"
Any reading or practical advice is welcome. So far I haven't found any online articles that aren't just restatements of things we're already doing.
Response by poster: "no biting, that hurts"
"Ow! We don't bite humans or animals!"
"We can't do (activity) today because you made some bad choices and hurt (person)"
He doesn't deal well with isolation, so leaving him alone doesn't happen anymore. Sometimes I'll take him to his room and just sit in the doorway being kind of quiet and I'll say "we can go back downstairs when your body is more calm"
The treat is mostly playing a computer game that he loves. It is a good motivator nearly all the time, and after he checks that it's still an option for tomorrow, he seems to really understand the cause and effect there without staying upset.
posted by Acari at 5:02 PM on June 12, 2022
"Ow! We don't bite humans or animals!"
"We can't do (activity) today because you made some bad choices and hurt (person)"
He doesn't deal well with isolation, so leaving him alone doesn't happen anymore. Sometimes I'll take him to his room and just sit in the doorway being kind of quiet and I'll say "we can go back downstairs when your body is more calm"
The treat is mostly playing a computer game that he loves. It is a good motivator nearly all the time, and after he checks that it's still an option for tomorrow, he seems to really understand the cause and effect there without staying upset.
posted by Acari at 5:02 PM on June 12, 2022
none of those sounds like effective discipline for a 4 year old. Telling him it hurts isn't discipline. Telling him later that some privilege isn't going to happen is way too abstract a connection to the problem.
I was going to suggest time outs - this was what we always did with our kids, although ours were not violent - they were very well behaved, actually, and I think the time outs were part of that. Why can't you do those? You said he doesn't deal well -- what does that mean? It's okay if he hates it and tantrums: they're not supposed to be fun. Time outs are supposed to be boring, lonely* and unpleasant (immediate, but nonviolent punishment) but also give an overstimulated child (which this one sounds like) an opportunity to calm down.
*this part is key: it's important not to reward bad behavior with lots of attention in the forms of lectures, etc.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:10 PM on June 12, 2022 [14 favorites]
I was going to suggest time outs - this was what we always did with our kids, although ours were not violent - they were very well behaved, actually, and I think the time outs were part of that. Why can't you do those? You said he doesn't deal well -- what does that mean? It's okay if he hates it and tantrums: they're not supposed to be fun. Time outs are supposed to be boring, lonely* and unpleasant (immediate, but nonviolent punishment) but also give an overstimulated child (which this one sounds like) an opportunity to calm down.
*this part is key: it's important not to reward bad behavior with lots of attention in the forms of lectures, etc.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:10 PM on June 12, 2022 [14 favorites]
Ugh, strong sympathy. This is a really hard thing, and we dealt with when our kid was that age (and are dealing it with it to a much lesser degree now).
Our issues were, like yours, frequently centered around the end of screen time. In particular, our kid had difficulty with the transition out of that, because he would be completely absorbed in the video he was watching and just lose track of everything else. Then, when we ended things, it was really tough for him to leave happy screenland.
I don't know if your kid has that issue, but in the off chance it might be helpful, here is a list of stuff we did:
1. Setting it as a certain number of videos, rather than a specific amount of time, so that we wouldn't have to cut off an interesting video right in the middle just as he was engaged.
2. Offering reminders during the screen time, so that it wasn't a surprise for him to come to the end of screen time ("this is the second video, kiddo.")
3. Requiring him to respond to the reminders ("how many videos has it been?" "..." "kid, you need to let me know that you keeping track. if we don't remember how long it has been, screen time is ending right now." "two.")
4. If something interesting is "other videos" or whatever, but screen time needs to be over, a little dialogue where we make a show of writing down the name of the interesting video/the channel it's on, so that it can be found for the next screen time.
5. Double-barreled parent interventions, where if misbehavior occurs, both parents show up and engage with the bad behavior, not just the one he hurt -- in part, it helped me and Mr. Machine learn from each other's techniques, but it also made a difference for our kid, visually seeing that that if he bit one parent, it upset both parents. One message that seemed to work particularly well was having one of us tell him that this is not how people in a family should treat each other, and then we would take turns telling him that this is not how his parents treated each other, because he models himself so strongly on us.
6. Specificity -- if he hits or bites in connection with ending screen time, then screen time immediately ends.
7. Escalation of consequences -- screen time going away for now isn't the worst thing that can happen. We would have discussions about how screen time would be going away for at least ____ days, and would not return even after that until he had shown us that he could keep himself from hitting and biting.
If he continued to hit and bite because he was mad that screen time ended like that, we would tell him that additional, unrelated treats and fun times could disappear, too, like cookie-baking with me or Saturday morning sports-watching with Mr. Machine. And we'd always structure it so that he would have a chance to course-correct to avoid that consequence -- it wasn't like, "all right, because you have done X, then you've lost Y." We used "if you don't stop X, then you will lose Y," with the idea to lose Y, he would have to knowingly choose it as a consequence of wanting to continue doing X.
Good luck.
posted by joyceanmachine at 5:13 PM on June 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
Our issues were, like yours, frequently centered around the end of screen time. In particular, our kid had difficulty with the transition out of that, because he would be completely absorbed in the video he was watching and just lose track of everything else. Then, when we ended things, it was really tough for him to leave happy screenland.
I don't know if your kid has that issue, but in the off chance it might be helpful, here is a list of stuff we did:
1. Setting it as a certain number of videos, rather than a specific amount of time, so that we wouldn't have to cut off an interesting video right in the middle just as he was engaged.
2. Offering reminders during the screen time, so that it wasn't a surprise for him to come to the end of screen time ("this is the second video, kiddo.")
3. Requiring him to respond to the reminders ("how many videos has it been?" "..." "kid, you need to let me know that you keeping track. if we don't remember how long it has been, screen time is ending right now." "two.")
4. If something interesting is "other videos" or whatever, but screen time needs to be over, a little dialogue where we make a show of writing down the name of the interesting video/the channel it's on, so that it can be found for the next screen time.
5. Double-barreled parent interventions, where if misbehavior occurs, both parents show up and engage with the bad behavior, not just the one he hurt -- in part, it helped me and Mr. Machine learn from each other's techniques, but it also made a difference for our kid, visually seeing that that if he bit one parent, it upset both parents. One message that seemed to work particularly well was having one of us tell him that this is not how people in a family should treat each other, and then we would take turns telling him that this is not how his parents treated each other, because he models himself so strongly on us.
6. Specificity -- if he hits or bites in connection with ending screen time, then screen time immediately ends.
7. Escalation of consequences -- screen time going away for now isn't the worst thing that can happen. We would have discussions about how screen time would be going away for at least ____ days, and would not return even after that until he had shown us that he could keep himself from hitting and biting.
If he continued to hit and bite because he was mad that screen time ended like that, we would tell him that additional, unrelated treats and fun times could disappear, too, like cookie-baking with me or Saturday morning sports-watching with Mr. Machine. And we'd always structure it so that he would have a chance to course-correct to avoid that consequence -- it wasn't like, "all right, because you have done X, then you've lost Y." We used "if you don't stop X, then you will lose Y," with the idea to lose Y, he would have to knowingly choose it as a consequence of wanting to continue doing X.
Good luck.
posted by joyceanmachine at 5:13 PM on June 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
also: it's clear the screen time is bad for him, if it's leading him to behave in that way. I'd scale it WAY WAY back - like to once a week. It's not his fault: screens are designed to be addicting. Of course he gets irrational when the dope is taken away.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:15 PM on June 12, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:15 PM on June 12, 2022 [8 favorites]
We have a toddler the same age, we follow Janet Lansbury. They are too young to have the self control not to do this when they are angry, so punishment is not the answer, especially taking away something that has no connection to the issue at hand. It’s hard to be told ‘no!’, or that you can’t have somethting - even for adults! Dealing with it without blowing up is a learned skill, and they are not there yet. When they are a little older you can start with the collaborative problemsolving , but until then, avoid the occasions when this is likely to happen, distract, and gently prevent them from doing any physical harm.
posted by sizeable beetle at 5:19 PM on June 12, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by sizeable beetle at 5:19 PM on June 12, 2022 [9 favorites]
Also, kids do well if they can. It helps me to reframe this behaviour as my kid having a hard time and struggling with something that’s tough for her. She’ll learn these skills with time and patience.
posted by sizeable beetle at 5:23 PM on June 12, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by sizeable beetle at 5:23 PM on June 12, 2022 [11 favorites]
Our first kid had similar issues, but a little earlier (coming up to three). I Don't have specific advice, but change happens little by little, and for us the problem just petered out after a year or two. Maybe the underlying cause was hormonal changes, or just some stage of mental development that he eventually grew out of, we'll never know. It got way better, and he's now nearly 16 and kind and nerdy and wonderful.
posted by pipeski at 5:34 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by pipeski at 5:34 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
We installed a punching bag which did not always help but over time my kids would attack it first at least. It will get better for most kids!
Ideas to pick from:
I had a few temper tantrum busting techniques that I think I got from Playful Parenting. First one was, I generally tried to make transitions silly. “Okay, you have watched 100 million minutes of videos!” Child starts bargaining. “Okay well you can watch 100 million AND ONE minute, so one minute more!”
Also I would often reverse roles. Like I would put on my video (phone) really loudly and then my child would demand I turn it off and then I would dramatically say I was going to SWOON IN DESPAIR if I couldn’t watch all the dog videos IN THE WORLD. Then my child would enforce screen time. I don’t think this was at the exact same time but it diffused the tension. If I remember right that book (PP) talks a lot about giving kids their power in fantasy at least.
I’d also lie down and tantrum (in a silly way) too. It worked sometimes.
A technique from How to Talk So Kids Will Listen is to give them their wish - “I bet you wish you could watch videos for two hours” “yes!” “What about 3 days!” Giggles “what about a million weeks!” “When would I eat?” “Drones would drop Cheerios on you!”…etc. eventually you just sigh and say “that would be cool” while you press the off button.
I invented the “mom manual” which required me to have them do lots of things like floss. Even my teenager still quasi jokes that whatever must be in the mom manual. For some reason blaming a manual also caused that glint — I know the one you mean! — to go away.
My kids did have a hard time with transitions after they were tired and so for us we basically did dinner, bath, bedtime with noooooo activities because at those times of day, they tended to go pear-shaped. Sometimes we did bath before dinner too and just brushed teeth. Whatever you can do helps. I was not parenting in a pandemic and my kids were in Montessori, so might not be possible, but I had them do sensory things (often “wash dishes”) while I cooked or tried to stop at a park going home and then had slow cooker soup. Anything to get through the 6-7:30 window.
Hang in there!
posted by warriorqueen at 5:42 PM on June 12, 2022 [10 favorites]
Ideas to pick from:
I had a few temper tantrum busting techniques that I think I got from Playful Parenting. First one was, I generally tried to make transitions silly. “Okay, you have watched 100 million minutes of videos!” Child starts bargaining. “Okay well you can watch 100 million AND ONE minute, so one minute more!”
Also I would often reverse roles. Like I would put on my video (phone) really loudly and then my child would demand I turn it off and then I would dramatically say I was going to SWOON IN DESPAIR if I couldn’t watch all the dog videos IN THE WORLD. Then my child would enforce screen time. I don’t think this was at the exact same time but it diffused the tension. If I remember right that book (PP) talks a lot about giving kids their power in fantasy at least.
I’d also lie down and tantrum (in a silly way) too. It worked sometimes.
A technique from How to Talk So Kids Will Listen is to give them their wish - “I bet you wish you could watch videos for two hours” “yes!” “What about 3 days!” Giggles “what about a million weeks!” “When would I eat?” “Drones would drop Cheerios on you!”…etc. eventually you just sigh and say “that would be cool” while you press the off button.
I invented the “mom manual” which required me to have them do lots of things like floss. Even my teenager still quasi jokes that whatever must be in the mom manual. For some reason blaming a manual also caused that glint — I know the one you mean! — to go away.
My kids did have a hard time with transitions after they were tired and so for us we basically did dinner, bath, bedtime with noooooo activities because at those times of day, they tended to go pear-shaped. Sometimes we did bath before dinner too and just brushed teeth. Whatever you can do helps. I was not parenting in a pandemic and my kids were in Montessori, so might not be possible, but I had them do sensory things (often “wash dishes”) while I cooked or tried to stop at a park going home and then had slow cooker soup. Anything to get through the 6-7:30 window.
Hang in there!
posted by warriorqueen at 5:42 PM on June 12, 2022 [10 favorites]
For one of my kids, time outs worked well. Time out meant that he had to sit quietly in a chair for a few minutes (the book recommended one minute per year of age) so that he could calm his body. We had different chairs we could use for a time out - it was important that we stayed nearby (it was not about isolation) but didn't interact unless he got up. If he left his chair, we restarted the timer when he sat down again. What helped for him was no big yelling or punishment - just the need to take a break until his body was calm again. Afterwards we could talk about what happened and, if it was serious enough, there might also be a consequence.
For the same kid, we also used story time to talk about things like why people get angry, what anger feels like in the body and what people do with their anger. When he was younger than your son, his favorite teddy bear had a real biting problem - bear would come up and bit people on the arm (bite! bite!) and then the person bit would model the same thing we would do if the child bit - "Bear, that hurts! Biting people is not OK. You need a time out" and then kiddo would bear in the time out chair. There was a lot of teddy bear biting for a few months but I was so grateful he was able to use the bear instead of doing real biting.
Just for the record, our other kid truly hated time out. Could not get her to stay in a time out chair unless you held her down (which felt really wrong). Fortunately the threat of time out usually got her to behave so it quickly became "Do it again and you get a time out" "I don't want to a time out!" "So don't do it again" and then the kids would humph and sulk but not do it again. (If she did, we opted for other consequences - actual time outs were just way too stressful for her whereas they are like a magic wand that calmed down the other kid. So your mileage may vary!!
posted by metahawk at 5:46 PM on June 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
For the same kid, we also used story time to talk about things like why people get angry, what anger feels like in the body and what people do with their anger. When he was younger than your son, his favorite teddy bear had a real biting problem - bear would come up and bit people on the arm (bite! bite!) and then the person bit would model the same thing we would do if the child bit - "Bear, that hurts! Biting people is not OK. You need a time out" and then kiddo would bear in the time out chair. There was a lot of teddy bear biting for a few months but I was so grateful he was able to use the bear instead of doing real biting.
Just for the record, our other kid truly hated time out. Could not get her to stay in a time out chair unless you held her down (which felt really wrong). Fortunately the threat of time out usually got her to behave so it quickly became "Do it again and you get a time out" "I don't want to a time out!" "So don't do it again" and then the kids would humph and sulk but not do it again. (If she did, we opted for other consequences - actual time outs were just way too stressful for her whereas they are like a magic wand that calmed down the other kid. So your mileage may vary!!
posted by metahawk at 5:46 PM on June 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Can you just get rid of all the screens? I don't mean as a punishment. I mean as a lifestyle choice.
I got rid of my TV when I was pregnant because I really want a screen-free baby. My son was screen free until before the pandemic (which hit just before his third birthday). During the worst of the pandemic there were screens (tv) introduced by grandparents. Now post-the-hopefully-worst-of-it, I really find that any screentime at all is bad for his behaviour. I feel like it overstimulates him somehow and predisposes him to something like what you describe, but without the violence. We're back in our home (i.e. no TV), we've never had a tablet, and if he asks to watch something (which he does every 2 or 3 weeks -- not often because it's just not a thing we do) I say "Sure," put the laptop on airplane mode and say "ugh...it's not working again." and he goes off the play something else.
If the screens are bad for him, I think removing the screens is a no-brainer. I know that's easier for me because my son has gone much of his life without a tv, all of his life without a tablet and doesn't even know video games exist. I'm not sure how you do it after it sounds like you've had a pretty screen-filled existence, but I would send the tv off "to be fixed" turn off the wifi to other devices and never look back.
Anything else you do is just treating the symptoms. The problem seems to be the screens.
(oh, and in the meantime, have you read How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids will talk and the companion "How to Talk so LIttle kids Will Listen"? When my son has been completely over the top emotional (but not violent) I've found that having a stuffy or doll talk (from the little kids books) works great:
Stuffy: Why is PenguinChild crying?
Me: He's upset because he wants to watch tv, but screentime is over.
Stuffy: Oh, that's hard. I like TV too. I want to watch TV.
Me: Yeah, he feels very very angry.
Stuffy: I want him to feel better.
Me: I want him to feel better too, but sometimes he just needs to have his big feelings. When he's ready we can help him.
Stuffy: How are we going to help him.
Me: Well, we can get him a glass of water to help him slow down and breathe, or we can hug him.
Stuffy: Oh that's a good idea. Why don't you hug him?
Me: I don't know if he wants a hug yet. He's very upset.
Stuffy: Maybe if he wants a hug he can touch his ear.
Me: Oh, that's a good idea. ANd if he wants a glass of water he can touch his nose. Or if he just wants some more time to have his big feelings he can touch his foot, or just not do anything.
So pretty early in this he will have gotten intrigued and stopped to listen and usually by the time we're suggesting signals that he's ready for help, he'll touch his nose or ear or whatever.
But yeah, this is just symptom-relief. Lose the screens.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:24 PM on June 12, 2022 [11 favorites]
I got rid of my TV when I was pregnant because I really want a screen-free baby. My son was screen free until before the pandemic (which hit just before his third birthday). During the worst of the pandemic there were screens (tv) introduced by grandparents. Now post-the-hopefully-worst-of-it, I really find that any screentime at all is bad for his behaviour. I feel like it overstimulates him somehow and predisposes him to something like what you describe, but without the violence. We're back in our home (i.e. no TV), we've never had a tablet, and if he asks to watch something (which he does every 2 or 3 weeks -- not often because it's just not a thing we do) I say "Sure," put the laptop on airplane mode and say "ugh...it's not working again." and he goes off the play something else.
If the screens are bad for him, I think removing the screens is a no-brainer. I know that's easier for me because my son has gone much of his life without a tv, all of his life without a tablet and doesn't even know video games exist. I'm not sure how you do it after it sounds like you've had a pretty screen-filled existence, but I would send the tv off "to be fixed" turn off the wifi to other devices and never look back.
Anything else you do is just treating the symptoms. The problem seems to be the screens.
(oh, and in the meantime, have you read How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids will talk and the companion "How to Talk so LIttle kids Will Listen"? When my son has been completely over the top emotional (but not violent) I've found that having a stuffy or doll talk (from the little kids books) works great:
Stuffy: Why is PenguinChild crying?
Me: He's upset because he wants to watch tv, but screentime is over.
Stuffy: Oh, that's hard. I like TV too. I want to watch TV.
Me: Yeah, he feels very very angry.
Stuffy: I want him to feel better.
Me: I want him to feel better too, but sometimes he just needs to have his big feelings. When he's ready we can help him.
Stuffy: How are we going to help him.
Me: Well, we can get him a glass of water to help him slow down and breathe, or we can hug him.
Stuffy: Oh that's a good idea. Why don't you hug him?
Me: I don't know if he wants a hug yet. He's very upset.
Stuffy: Maybe if he wants a hug he can touch his ear.
Me: Oh, that's a good idea. ANd if he wants a glass of water he can touch his nose. Or if he just wants some more time to have his big feelings he can touch his foot, or just not do anything.
So pretty early in this he will have gotten intrigued and stopped to listen and usually by the time we're suggesting signals that he's ready for help, he'll touch his nose or ear or whatever.
But yeah, this is just symptom-relief. Lose the screens.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:24 PM on June 12, 2022 [11 favorites]
I would first regulate his body:
More sleep - in bed by 8pm.
More exercise (get a trampoline, go for walks, etc).
More consistent healthy snacks (something with healthy fat and fibre every 2 hours, like a piece of cheese and half an apple type snacks).
Remind him to go to the toilet every 2 hours.
And…. zero screen time. Cold turkey, lie and say it broke and just do not let him look at screens any more, at all. For some kids it just riles them up and makes them angry zombies. Try no screens for a month and see how it goes.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 7:03 PM on June 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
More sleep - in bed by 8pm.
More exercise (get a trampoline, go for walks, etc).
More consistent healthy snacks (something with healthy fat and fibre every 2 hours, like a piece of cheese and half an apple type snacks).
Remind him to go to the toilet every 2 hours.
And…. zero screen time. Cold turkey, lie and say it broke and just do not let him look at screens any more, at all. For some kids it just riles them up and makes them angry zombies. Try no screens for a month and see how it goes.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 7:03 PM on June 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
All the pie-in-the-sky “playful parenting” and trendy blogs did not help us. What did help was establishing firm boundaries with the help of a behavioral psychologist who created a positive incentive plan for us. You can also read Alan Kazdin’s books. It was literally amazing to me how quickly aggressive behaviors totally went away. Like four weeks. 4 years old may be a little young for such a fast turnaround (we started at 6) but I think you can make progress.
If you don’t want to do this, or can’t find a therapist, then I’d just focus all your efforts at ignoring the behavior while gently moving his body away. Like, do not react at all. Paying attention and talking about it (“we don’t do that! let’s be kind!”) just reinforces it.
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:06 PM on June 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you don’t want to do this, or can’t find a therapist, then I’d just focus all your efforts at ignoring the behavior while gently moving his body away. Like, do not react at all. Paying attention and talking about it (“we don’t do that! let’s be kind!”) just reinforces it.
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:06 PM on June 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have a 4 year old and agree with trying to set more limitations on screen time even though it seems counterintuitive. We found there were tantrums if we had screens in the morning especially on weekdays or nthis before a weekend activity, so now it's weekends only with some other limits like after activities, only in a specific place. It's helped so much. Kid seemed to understand "we've gotten too grumpy when we look at the computer in the morning, but you can watch it at (other time)".
My kid has trouble calming down alone too. Another tactic that has worked is saying "I'm not mad at you and you're not in trouble. I just want us to calm down together. I know what a loving kid you are and you must have felt really mad to hit me" etc.
posted by beyond_pink at 7:35 PM on June 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
My kid has trouble calming down alone too. Another tactic that has worked is saying "I'm not mad at you and you're not in trouble. I just want us to calm down together. I know what a loving kid you are and you must have felt really mad to hit me" etc.
posted by beyond_pink at 7:35 PM on June 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
I just want to add, enforcing "no screens" is WAY easier than enforcing any limited amount of screentime.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:14 PM on June 12, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:14 PM on June 12, 2022 [10 favorites]
I'm not a parent, and don't know anything about small children. I used to be a small child who bit, so I have some experience of this from a different perspective.
He seems to be stuck in a mode where he just has to say no,
I think your intuition here is spot on and very insightful. Look into the phenomenon of Demand Avoidance and discomfort with changing states and being interrupted. It's a trait that is particularly strong in neurodivergent people but as far as I know, isn't limited to neurodivergent people.
Knowing a bit about how demand avoidance works can hopefully help you figure out what approach will work for your child.
posted by Zumbador at 9:22 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
He seems to be stuck in a mode where he just has to say no,
I think your intuition here is spot on and very insightful. Look into the phenomenon of Demand Avoidance and discomfort with changing states and being interrupted. It's a trait that is particularly strong in neurodivergent people but as far as I know, isn't limited to neurodivergent people.
Knowing a bit about how demand avoidance works can hopefully help you figure out what approach will work for your child.
posted by Zumbador at 9:22 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Honestly, a lot of this is just being 4. 4 is really hard!
Everything you’re doing is what you should be doing. Try to find more ways for him to entertain himself that don’t include screens (in my experience, these are usually messy, I recommend activities with colorful painters tape.). Be consistent with your patterns, they will (mostly) work and will start to work more consistently (mostly) but they aren’t magic; no matter what Janet Lansbury says, when your response fails to extinguish the behavior right away, it doesn’t necessarily mean it was the wrong response or that you weren’t doing it right, it just means kids are emotional and irrational and frustrating and frustrated. We did put screens away when we had bad behavior around them, not as a punishment but as a consequence. Often the days without screens were much better! Sometimes when we went back to a screen, we had better luck with the transition the next time. (Sometimes not!) I sometimes found that transitioning from the screen was easier if I engaged with the same screen during the last few minutes and offered an enjoyable post screen activity, like a snack or dance party or something. We used time outs but they were really just for everyone to regain some composure, they only barely worked.
But really, four is fucking hard, four and half was the hardest so far. Five is easier. Five and a half is a little hard again but not as bad as all of four.
posted by vunder at 10:44 PM on June 12, 2022
Everything you’re doing is what you should be doing. Try to find more ways for him to entertain himself that don’t include screens (in my experience, these are usually messy, I recommend activities with colorful painters tape.). Be consistent with your patterns, they will (mostly) work and will start to work more consistently (mostly) but they aren’t magic; no matter what Janet Lansbury says, when your response fails to extinguish the behavior right away, it doesn’t necessarily mean it was the wrong response or that you weren’t doing it right, it just means kids are emotional and irrational and frustrating and frustrated. We did put screens away when we had bad behavior around them, not as a punishment but as a consequence. Often the days without screens were much better! Sometimes when we went back to a screen, we had better luck with the transition the next time. (Sometimes not!) I sometimes found that transitioning from the screen was easier if I engaged with the same screen during the last few minutes and offered an enjoyable post screen activity, like a snack or dance party or something. We used time outs but they were really just for everyone to regain some composure, they only barely worked.
But really, four is fucking hard, four and half was the hardest so far. Five is easier. Five and a half is a little hard again but not as bad as all of four.
posted by vunder at 10:44 PM on June 12, 2022
You mention that this behavior often comes up around screen time, the cutting off of which often leads to much Sturm und Drang in our house. Some things that have taken down the temperature have been.
- A five minute warning. "We'll be sitting down to dinner in five minutes so find a good place to pause your game or video.
- Asking how much time is left in video and determining if the video can just be watched to the end and then pausing/stopping to join family
-
posted by brookeb at 10:48 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
- A five minute warning. "We'll be sitting down to dinner in five minutes so find a good place to pause your game or video.
- Asking how much time is left in video and determining if the video can just be watched to the end and then pausing/stopping to join family
-
posted by brookeb at 10:48 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
My children are older than yours but my son in particular has always had trouble transitioning from one activity to another esp from screen time. (He does have ADHD but since you haven't mentioned anything to that effect I'm going to not go into it here). Honestly, my feeling is - who can blame him? I've been working hard the past couple of weeks on a project (on a screen) that I'm really into and it takes all my self control/external commitments to put it down when I need to do something else. So I can appreciate how frustrated he is when screen time is up and I'm way more in control of how I manage my time than he is. We don't have biting but we have in the past had regressive physical outbursts, etc. , inappropriate for their ages. What has helped in our house is to a) really enforce screen time limits (things are worse when it's loosey goosey vs. very firm you have X min/hours), b) give warnings ahead of time "you've got 15 min. Now it's 5 , now it's 1, etc."), and c) plan for a transition time. My son loses track of his body and needs to eat, decompress, process what he's been doing. It's like reentry from outer space and then he's normal again. We do something mellow - a meal, an audio book for a while until he's back to back to himself again.I build this into our schedule before the next activity b/c if I don't it can really be hard and we all pay.
posted by snowymorninblues at 10:50 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by snowymorninblues at 10:50 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
I would look into Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and see if it resonates. Also know that sometimes this isn’t just a matter of ‘being four.’ If your instincts say something more serious is going on (you mention the look in his eye), then don’t discount that, especially as he gets older.
posted by asimplemouse at 3:49 AM on June 13, 2022
posted by asimplemouse at 3:49 AM on June 13, 2022
Response by poster: Thanks for your comments, everyone!
I don't want to respond to each item, but a few general notes:
- thanks for terms to search and articles/books to read
- Most things I listed were not discipline, but things done when he's calm.
- Demand Avoidance is an interesting idea. I don't feel like he's a good match for that overall, but I'll still try some techniques and read about it some more. It's definitely on the right track, but... if there is a version that only happens when tired?
- I'm sorry I even typed the word 'screens'.
- Time outs are not an option because he gets very scared.
Thank you all for taking time to respond. I appreciate your intentions and effort.
posted by Acari at 6:45 AM on June 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't want to respond to each item, but a few general notes:
- thanks for terms to search and articles/books to read
- Most things I listed were not discipline, but things done when he's calm.
- Demand Avoidance is an interesting idea. I don't feel like he's a good match for that overall, but I'll still try some techniques and read about it some more. It's definitely on the right track, but... if there is a version that only happens when tired?
- I'm sorry I even typed the word 'screens'.
- Time outs are not an option because he gets very scared.
Thank you all for taking time to respond. I appreciate your intentions and effort.
posted by Acari at 6:45 AM on June 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Oh I have been here! I think the advice above is great, but honestly, I can't say it will really make a difference. My kids are SO different from each other and I swear my parenting has been pretty much the same. I've learned to parent each child differently as they get older. He is 4. This is likely just a phase that he is going through that would happen no matter what book you read or principle you apply.
On a side note, I recently decided I shouldn't ask parenting questions here because people are often just too smug, too harsh and their experiences don't map onto mine. When OPs ask about their mental health struggles, no one would ever say "I'm perfectly happy, never struggled with depression, here's what I do, why aren't you doing this?!" But for some reason, people do just this in parenting questions, even when their situations/ages of their children/number of their children etc. are completely different.
I'm sure it is well-meaning, I 100% KNOW I've done it myself, but it is aggravating when you're looking for help or worried.
posted by heavenknows at 11:25 AM on June 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
On a side note, I recently decided I shouldn't ask parenting questions here because people are often just too smug, too harsh and their experiences don't map onto mine. When OPs ask about their mental health struggles, no one would ever say "I'm perfectly happy, never struggled with depression, here's what I do, why aren't you doing this?!" But for some reason, people do just this in parenting questions, even when their situations/ages of their children/number of their children etc. are completely different.
I'm sure it is well-meaning, I 100% KNOW I've done it myself, but it is aggravating when you're looking for help or worried.
posted by heavenknows at 11:25 AM on June 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Highly recommend the book Brain-Body Parenting by Mona Delahooke. She'd focus on the dysregulation he's having and how to help him through that. In a way, focusing on the specific behavior is sort of besides the point (even though this specific behavior is really distressing for everyone) because it's the dysregulation and what's causing it that's the problem. Co-regulation and connecting with him will help, as will identifying what's setting him off and trying to address that. Good luck!
posted by omnie at 7:49 PM on June 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by omnie at 7:49 PM on June 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Without my figuring anything out, he seems to have decided on his fourth birthday that he's done with all of that.
Just... Done.
Some short relapses in the weeks since then, but if I point it out then he stops immediately.
Kids are just bizarre!
posted by Acari at 6:18 PM on August 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just... Done.
Some short relapses in the weeks since then, but if I point it out then he stops immediately.
Kids are just bizarre!
posted by Acari at 6:18 PM on August 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:40 PM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]