Why did my friend have such a bad reaction to weed?
May 6, 2022 1:39 PM Subscribe
My friend had a reaction to weed that seemed very unusual. Details inside.
About a week ago, I went to visit a friend and, at his request, brought some weed for him – edibles, to be exact. He’s used CBD oil for a while, but he wanted to try something psychoactive, so I brought him a THC gummy, which I use pretty regularly. (It’s legal where we live.) He had actually tried 5 mg of THC before, but it had little if any effect on him, so he wanted to up the dose and try 10 mg. He also didn’t want to try it while he was alone, which I thought was pretty wise.
Anyway. He took the 10 mg while I was there, and it was awful. He reacted really, really badly, which is to say that he had what I would characterize as a bad trip. He was having scary, intense hallucinations and was terrified. It was incredibly frightening for both of us (more for him, of course). He eventually fell asleep and after a fitful night was okay by the next morning, but badly shaken. I actually took the same product, same dose, and it had the same effect on me it always had, so there was nothing off about the weed itself, I don’t think.
My question is: what on earth happened? Do some people just have a strange reaction to cannabis? I’ve been around people using weed for decades, and have *never* seen anyone react to weed like that before. Is this just something that happens with people with a particular brain chemistry? Is it a portent of other health problems? He’s 37 and in good health, although more than usually anxious. Other than CBD oil, which he uses from time to time, he doesn’t regularly take any other drugs, either prescription or otherwise.
Just to be clear, this is not a “how can we keep this from happening again?’ question, because he will never, ever use the stuff again, This is more an informational question because as I said, I’ve never seen, or even heard of, anyone reacting to a fairly low dose of THC as though it’s a heavy-duty hallucinogen. I know edibles can be a bit unpredictable, but this was way out of the ordinary, at least in my experience.
About a week ago, I went to visit a friend and, at his request, brought some weed for him – edibles, to be exact. He’s used CBD oil for a while, but he wanted to try something psychoactive, so I brought him a THC gummy, which I use pretty regularly. (It’s legal where we live.) He had actually tried 5 mg of THC before, but it had little if any effect on him, so he wanted to up the dose and try 10 mg. He also didn’t want to try it while he was alone, which I thought was pretty wise.
Anyway. He took the 10 mg while I was there, and it was awful. He reacted really, really badly, which is to say that he had what I would characterize as a bad trip. He was having scary, intense hallucinations and was terrified. It was incredibly frightening for both of us (more for him, of course). He eventually fell asleep and after a fitful night was okay by the next morning, but badly shaken. I actually took the same product, same dose, and it had the same effect on me it always had, so there was nothing off about the weed itself, I don’t think.
My question is: what on earth happened? Do some people just have a strange reaction to cannabis? I’ve been around people using weed for decades, and have *never* seen anyone react to weed like that before. Is this just something that happens with people with a particular brain chemistry? Is it a portent of other health problems? He’s 37 and in good health, although more than usually anxious. Other than CBD oil, which he uses from time to time, he doesn’t regularly take any other drugs, either prescription or otherwise.
Just to be clear, this is not a “how can we keep this from happening again?’ question, because he will never, ever use the stuff again, This is more an informational question because as I said, I’ve never seen, or even heard of, anyone reacting to a fairly low dose of THC as though it’s a heavy-duty hallucinogen. I know edibles can be a bit unpredictable, but this was way out of the ordinary, at least in my experience.
Yep. Just like opiates don't work on some people, and caffeine affects some people badly, etc etc, there's a bad amount of THC for some brains. Anecdotally, I had a friend who loves CBD for anxiety who accidentally took a 10mg THC gummy (always check that packaging!) and they had a similar experience as your friend.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 1:49 PM on May 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 1:49 PM on May 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
10mg is a lot of THC!! Seriously, I am a somewhat regular user, and I found half of 5mg to be a nice amount. Especially for someone like your friend who, it sounds like, barely ingests weed. Of course you'd have a different reaction if you're a regular user.
Also, was this pure THC or THC balanced with CBD? One of the reasons some people, myself included, vastly prefer 1:1 THC:CBD products is that CBD balances out the paranoia-causing parts of THC.
posted by coffeecat at 1:50 PM on May 6, 2022 [21 favorites]
Also, was this pure THC or THC balanced with CBD? One of the reasons some people, myself included, vastly prefer 1:1 THC:CBD products is that CBD balances out the paranoia-causing parts of THC.
posted by coffeecat at 1:50 PM on May 6, 2022 [21 favorites]
The thing is, to someone with no tolerance, 10 mg IS a lot. How long did your friend wait until taking another 5mg? My guess is, like many first time edible users, he was impatient for the initial dose to kick in, and increased the dose, when he would have been fine with the initial dose or even less. Cannabis isn’t a hallucinogen per se, but reactions like the one you’ve described aren’t unheard of.
For future reference, if you ever encounter this problem with anyone else, CBD can sometimes counteract the effect of too much THC.
posted by sparringnarwhal at 1:50 PM on May 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
For future reference, if you ever encounter this problem with anyone else, CBD can sometimes counteract the effect of too much THC.
posted by sparringnarwhal at 1:50 PM on May 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
I'm just going to say that
a) 10mg THC is a LOT for me. I would be totally losing it too, and I'm an "experienced" THC eater
b) It's very common for people to not feel anything on their first time, and I feel like there's a scientific reason for this having to do with "cannabinoid receptors" that I'm not smart enough to elaborate on but maybe someone else can. In either case, many people are disappointed with their first time smoking/eating weed and don't get high until next time.
What I suspect happened was your friend went from typical first-time disappointment to explosively high dose (a high dose for them personally, and frankly, for me - though everyone is different).
I don't think there's anything wrong with your edibles, I think your friend just needed to try 5mg (or even less). When I've introduced friends to edibles I actually start them on like 3-4mg FWIW - and I'll preface with something like, "listen you might get a little stoned, but you also might just feel really relaxed/tired" as a way of setting expectations.
posted by windbox at 1:51 PM on May 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
a) 10mg THC is a LOT for me. I would be totally losing it too, and I'm an "experienced" THC eater
b) It's very common for people to not feel anything on their first time, and I feel like there's a scientific reason for this having to do with "cannabinoid receptors" that I'm not smart enough to elaborate on but maybe someone else can. In either case, many people are disappointed with their first time smoking/eating weed and don't get high until next time.
What I suspect happened was your friend went from typical first-time disappointment to explosively high dose (a high dose for them personally, and frankly, for me - though everyone is different).
I don't think there's anything wrong with your edibles, I think your friend just needed to try 5mg (or even less). When I've introduced friends to edibles I actually start them on like 3-4mg FWIW - and I'll preface with something like, "listen you might get a little stoned, but you also might just feel really relaxed/tired" as a way of setting expectations.
posted by windbox at 1:51 PM on May 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
Yes I know a few people who've had a bad trip, weed is a hallucinogen. I think back when people only smoked weed they would blame these bad trips on laced weed even though that's basically never happened. Typically it is a function of too much for that person, too fast, in a setting with bad vibes. And anxiety is the ultimate bad vibe. I don't really like edibles especially for beginners because it's impossible to titrate - you take the gummy and live with the consequences. Especially for someone with anxiety that's not a good combo.
posted by muddgirl at 1:52 PM on May 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 1:52 PM on May 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's not for everyone. I suspect a lot of the anti-drug fervor that pervades our society (Thanks, Nancy…) is a result of people's bad reactions to substances, either for reasons of set and setting, or a genetic predelection of incompatibility. Many attitudes are simply a result of ignorant prejudice. Some people's temperaments can't handle altering. Attitude and experience have much to do with whether things go well.
posted by sydnius at 2:00 PM on May 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sydnius at 2:00 PM on May 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Agreed that some people just respond badly to THC. I'll also add that it's true that 10mg is considered a low dose, but for someone who doesn't really use THC at all, a 10mg gummy can hit like a truck. Like, I smoked a bunch of pot in college, but the first time I went to California after legalization and had a 10mg gummy I couldn't believe how high I got.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:02 PM on May 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:02 PM on May 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
I do not like psychoactive substances, so have no tolerance for such things. One time I ate a 5mg candy and spent 3 days practically paralyzed on a friend’s couch barely able to open my eyes. My response range with THC is moderate existential anguish to paralytic funhouse horror.
posted by asimplemouse at 2:29 PM on May 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by asimplemouse at 2:29 PM on May 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Out of curiosity are you in a state/locality that requires lab testing for cannabis products?
I have lived in Oregon where there is some sort of lab testing to confirm the percentage of THC whereas other places don’t have this requirement. Seems like a long shot but it’s possible if the product wasn’t lab tested you could have gotten a rogue edible? I wouldn’t consider 10 mgs to be a large dose by any means, but mileage seems to vary quite a bit person to person.
“People who have taken large doses of marijuana may experience an acute psychosis, which includes hallucinations, delusions, and a loss of the sense of personal identity.”
posted by forkisbetter at 2:32 PM on May 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have lived in Oregon where there is some sort of lab testing to confirm the percentage of THC whereas other places don’t have this requirement. Seems like a long shot but it’s possible if the product wasn’t lab tested you could have gotten a rogue edible? I wouldn’t consider 10 mgs to be a large dose by any means, but mileage seems to vary quite a bit person to person.
“People who have taken large doses of marijuana may experience an acute psychosis, which includes hallucinations, delusions, and a loss of the sense of personal identity.”
posted by forkisbetter at 2:32 PM on May 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'd be (and have been, alas) a quivering, sweaty, paranoid mess after 10 mg of THC, and I'm a large gentleman. Quarter that amount is pleasantly hilarious for a whole evening for me
posted by scruss at 2:44 PM on May 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by scruss at 2:44 PM on May 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Do some people just have a strange reaction to cannabis?
Oh, yes. One of my good friends ended up marrying the guy who took care of her after a party where she had a bad reaction!
posted by praemunire at 3:10 PM on May 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Oh, yes. One of my good friends ended up marrying the guy who took care of her after a party where she had a bad reaction!
posted by praemunire at 3:10 PM on May 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Alexander Shulgin famously wrote about how he did not enjoy marijuana, which is notable since he's discovered/invented slightly more new psychoactive compounds than the average person has.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 3:30 PM on May 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by soylent00FF00 at 3:30 PM on May 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Out of curiosity are you in a state/locality that requires lab testing for cannabis products?
I actually don’t know! In any event, the weed is from California, although we are not.
posted by That darn sock! at 4:04 PM on May 6, 2022
I actually don’t know! In any event, the weed is from California, although we are not.
posted by That darn sock! at 4:04 PM on May 6, 2022
AKA Freshman Girl Syndrome. Quite often the first joint, bong rip, whatever ends up in a big bit of "I don't feel anything" and she shares that joint and smokes all your weed and nothing happens. My theory is that your brain counteracts that initial experience like an immune system fighting something off and does some sort of "Oh no" countermeasure. It takes a couple of times for the brain to relax and 'learn' to let the being stoned happen. Then that same joint, bong rip works.
Basically it is a thing that the first THC experience doesn't really do much sometimes. Doubling up the next time is probably not wise. Gotta let the brain get used to the thing that the THC is going to do and not consider it a weird thing that need correcting.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:40 PM on May 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Basically it is a thing that the first THC experience doesn't really do much sometimes. Doubling up the next time is probably not wise. Gotta let the brain get used to the thing that the THC is going to do and not consider it a weird thing that need correcting.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:40 PM on May 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
You might also want to try a vape pen or just a joint. Acts faster than edibles so you can stop and wait to feel it. Edibles are a bunch of too late to stop.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:42 PM on May 6, 2022
posted by zengargoyle at 4:42 PM on May 6, 2022
Edibles are a bunch of too late to stop.
The number of stories that start with "These edibles ain't shit"....
posted by praemunire at 4:52 PM on May 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
The number of stories that start with "These edibles ain't shit"....
posted by praemunire at 4:52 PM on May 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
One of the worst trips I've ever had was years ago with pot butter- I was up all night and it was very much Not Fun. I stayed away from it for a very long time, but am fine with and prefer gummies to smoking most of the time now. I'm sorry your friend had to experience that.
posted by oneirodynia at 5:07 PM on May 6, 2022
posted by oneirodynia at 5:07 PM on May 6, 2022
Just nthing the "10mg is a lot" feeling, and also that your friend may be more susceptible to certain strains — generally it's sativa vs indica, each tending towards a head or body high. I can never remember which is which but I myself have a preference (which I must double-check regularly..) because the other makes me feel super weird, and a large dose (I generally take 3-5mg) would really make me feel shitty. Whichever one your friend tried, it's worth switching to the other.
I hope your friend is feeling better and will be open to trying this again with a different strain, method, or dosage.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 5:08 PM on May 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
I hope your friend is feeling better and will be open to trying this again with a different strain, method, or dosage.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 5:08 PM on May 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's pretty common for someone's first time getting high to be too intense. Since edibles usually result in a more intense, longer-lasting high than inhalation, that could have exacerbated things.
Paranoia, racing thoughts and difficulty sleeping all sound like an average bad early experience from someone who has zero tolerance, whose fresh CB1 and CB2 receptors are meeting THC for the first time and reacting unpredictably. For most people, I would recommend a lot of sessions at 2.5mg or 5mg until those receptors have become desensitized (building tolerance) before attempting 10mg again.
However, intense visual hallucinations are not a common symptom of getting too high. That detail makes me think THC could have triggered a psychotic episode. Cannabis is contraindicated for people with a history of psychosis, but has also been known to trigger psychosis in people who do not have a previous history.
I am a cannabis industry professional who smokes a ton of weed; I'm not trying to demonize cannabis or stigmatize mental health conditions. Cannabis-Induced Psychosis is a real thing. Even the strongest cannabis advocates will agree it doesn't work for everyone, for a multitude of reasons.
I am no longer a budtender, and I am not your budtender, but if someone described this experience to me, the hallucinations would make me wary of recommending any level of THC use to them.
Note: CBD does not have the same warnings, and there has been a decent amount of research done to evaluate it for safety and antipsychotic properties in patients with schizophrenia.
posted by Juliet Banana at 5:24 PM on May 6, 2022 [13 favorites]
Paranoia, racing thoughts and difficulty sleeping all sound like an average bad early experience from someone who has zero tolerance, whose fresh CB1 and CB2 receptors are meeting THC for the first time and reacting unpredictably. For most people, I would recommend a lot of sessions at 2.5mg or 5mg until those receptors have become desensitized (building tolerance) before attempting 10mg again.
However, intense visual hallucinations are not a common symptom of getting too high. That detail makes me think THC could have triggered a psychotic episode. Cannabis is contraindicated for people with a history of psychosis, but has also been known to trigger psychosis in people who do not have a previous history.
I am a cannabis industry professional who smokes a ton of weed; I'm not trying to demonize cannabis or stigmatize mental health conditions. Cannabis-Induced Psychosis is a real thing. Even the strongest cannabis advocates will agree it doesn't work for everyone, for a multitude of reasons.
I am no longer a budtender, and I am not your budtender, but if someone described this experience to me, the hallucinations would make me wary of recommending any level of THC use to them.
Note: CBD does not have the same warnings, and there has been a decent amount of research done to evaluate it for safety and antipsychotic properties in patients with schizophrenia.
posted by Juliet Banana at 5:24 PM on May 6, 2022 [13 favorites]
I am also not a doctor but I believe that cannabis induced psychosis involves hallucinations/paranoia from 24 hours - 1 week after consumption or increase in potency. The effects during intoxication aren't typically considered. But certainly if he is concerned he should speak with a doctor or psychiatrist.
posted by muddgirl at 5:59 PM on May 6, 2022
posted by muddgirl at 5:59 PM on May 6, 2022
→
For me (after some excellent guidance from hippybear here), it's indica that gives a pleasant happy head high, which is a contrast to the couch-lock weed goggles experience from sativa. I'm also fairly neurodivergent (speed helps me sleep), so any trace of CBD gives me a couple of days of medium-strength dissociation.
posted by scruss at 7:00 PM on May 6, 2022
your friend may be more susceptible to certain strains — generally it's sativa vs indica, each tending towards a head or body high. I can never remember which is which but ...
For me (after some excellent guidance from hippybear here), it's indica that gives a pleasant happy head high, which is a contrast to the couch-lock weed goggles experience from sativa. I'm also fairly neurodivergent (speed helps me sleep), so any trace of CBD gives me a couple of days of medium-strength dissociation.
posted by scruss at 7:00 PM on May 6, 2022
Do some people just have a strange reaction to cannabis? I’ve been around people using weed for decades, and have *never* seen anyone react to weed like that before.
Yes they do, especially people who are not regular users.
Is this just something that happens with people with a particular brain chemistry?
Yes.
Is it a portent of other health problems?
Impossible to be sure.
He’s 37 and in good health, although more than usually anxious.
In my experience, chronically anxious people often have a terrible ride from chemicals that make other people high. Quite a lot of anxiety comes down to a habitual need to retain a strong sense of control, and getting high thoroughly disrupts the self-image that many people conceive of as the controller. For some people that disruption functions as a challenge and strong motivator for a lifelong inquiry into the nature of conscious existence; for others it does nothing more productive than trigger fear, in some cases to a completely disabling extent.
If you're interested in experiencing something similar to what your friend did, you could try eating ten times the dose of edibles you'd normally use. I like weed just fine, but in my early twenties I did make Edibles N00b Error #1 with my very first batch of special cookies. I ate a couple, then three hours later found myself outrageously stoned with an irresistible case of the munchies and no food in the house but a large batch of delicious, irresistible, fresh-baked special cookies.
The resulting total green-out was exceedingly unpleasant and not an experience I'd ever choose to repeat. Endless vertigo and nausea but no vomiting; complete loss of spatial orientation; total inability to get up off the floor, or move in any deliberate way really, just twelve hours of being hammered by relentless audiovisual special effects that very rapidly lost all interest and charm and became nothing but oppressive.
I don't recall being frightened particularly, just wanting! it! all! to! stop! and being really upset that it wouldn't and feeling completely stupid for self-inflicting what was clearly an excessive dose. But if I'd been a bit more set in my ways and had a strong attachment to things being basically normal rather than being an eager young inner space cadet, or somebody who wasn't completely confident that cannabis isn't essentially poisonous, I'm sure I'd have been utterly terrified.
posted by flabdablet at 9:48 PM on May 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yes they do, especially people who are not regular users.
Is this just something that happens with people with a particular brain chemistry?
Yes.
Is it a portent of other health problems?
Impossible to be sure.
He’s 37 and in good health, although more than usually anxious.
In my experience, chronically anxious people often have a terrible ride from chemicals that make other people high. Quite a lot of anxiety comes down to a habitual need to retain a strong sense of control, and getting high thoroughly disrupts the self-image that many people conceive of as the controller. For some people that disruption functions as a challenge and strong motivator for a lifelong inquiry into the nature of conscious existence; for others it does nothing more productive than trigger fear, in some cases to a completely disabling extent.
If you're interested in experiencing something similar to what your friend did, you could try eating ten times the dose of edibles you'd normally use. I like weed just fine, but in my early twenties I did make Edibles N00b Error #1 with my very first batch of special cookies. I ate a couple, then three hours later found myself outrageously stoned with an irresistible case of the munchies and no food in the house but a large batch of delicious, irresistible, fresh-baked special cookies.
The resulting total green-out was exceedingly unpleasant and not an experience I'd ever choose to repeat. Endless vertigo and nausea but no vomiting; complete loss of spatial orientation; total inability to get up off the floor, or move in any deliberate way really, just twelve hours of being hammered by relentless audiovisual special effects that very rapidly lost all interest and charm and became nothing but oppressive.
I don't recall being frightened particularly, just wanting! it! all! to! stop! and being really upset that it wouldn't and feeling completely stupid for self-inflicting what was clearly an excessive dose. But if I'd been a bit more set in my ways and had a strong attachment to things being basically normal rather than being an eager young inner space cadet, or somebody who wasn't completely confident that cannabis isn't essentially poisonous, I'm sure I'd have been utterly terrified.
posted by flabdablet at 9:48 PM on May 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I took 25mg of delta 8 for the first time and had an ego death experience (sort of... Aliens came to take me out of my timeline and I told them ok but I have to come back when we're done since I have a family and then I was gone, came back and had a psychedelic integration type of experience where I needed to pick and choose which belief threads/ruts I wanted to turn on again).
Some people are very sensitive to things. The delta 8 had no actual THC in it. This was not my first rodeo with things of this nature but it had been years. I was rather embarrassed to learn afterwards that my experience is very unusual.
posted by crunchy potato at 10:34 PM on May 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Some people are very sensitive to things. The delta 8 had no actual THC in it. This was not my first rodeo with things of this nature but it had been years. I was rather embarrassed to learn afterwards that my experience is very unusual.
posted by crunchy potato at 10:34 PM on May 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV. What I do however, is Google a lot.
The way MJ works on the brain in 2 ways:
* it interferes with brain functions as chemically, THC is very similar to anandamide, a neurotransmitter. Large amount of THC into the brain means brain's communication to nerves is disrupted. This causes impaired thinking, coordination, posture, balance, and reaction time.
* through the first way, it also messes with hippocampus, the area of brain that process information and thus, form memories. Thus, that's how THC produces "acid-trips". The information from the nerves are altered.
Study also shows that people with the "AKT1 gene" seems to process dopamine, the brain 'reward system" differently, esp. when influenced by THC, and thus, more susceptible to psychosis under prolonged MJ use. Your friend may be one of those people more sensitive to THC.
posted by kschang at 6:14 AM on May 7, 2022
The way MJ works on the brain in 2 ways:
* it interferes with brain functions as chemically, THC is very similar to anandamide, a neurotransmitter. Large amount of THC into the brain means brain's communication to nerves is disrupted. This causes impaired thinking, coordination, posture, balance, and reaction time.
* through the first way, it also messes with hippocampus, the area of brain that process information and thus, form memories. Thus, that's how THC produces "acid-trips". The information from the nerves are altered.
Study also shows that people with the "AKT1 gene" seems to process dopamine, the brain 'reward system" differently, esp. when influenced by THC, and thus, more susceptible to psychosis under prolonged MJ use. Your friend may be one of those people more sensitive to THC.
posted by kschang at 6:14 AM on May 7, 2022
10mg is a lot of THC!! Seriously, I am a somewhat regular user, and I found half of 5mg to be a nice amount.
Yeah I am an edibles-for-sleep person and I take about 2.5 mg and 10 mg would... not be good for me. My partner, on the other hand, is a regular user and I've seen him take 20-30 mg of edibles with no real discernable effect. Which is to say, it varies, but for people who are anxious, a bad trip can be bad, partly because it comes on slow so there's a lot of dread build-up. Heed what Juliet Banana is saying, sometimes people have out of the ordinary troubles with edibles, but he should also keep a general eye on his mental health just to be on the safe side.
posted by jessamyn at 10:26 AM on May 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah I am an edibles-for-sleep person and I take about 2.5 mg and 10 mg would... not be good for me. My partner, on the other hand, is a regular user and I've seen him take 20-30 mg of edibles with no real discernable effect. Which is to say, it varies, but for people who are anxious, a bad trip can be bad, partly because it comes on slow so there's a lot of dread build-up. Heed what Juliet Banana is saying, sometimes people have out of the ordinary troubles with edibles, but he should also keep a general eye on his mental health just to be on the safe side.
posted by jessamyn at 10:26 AM on May 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:48 PM on May 6, 2022 [15 favorites]