how could this be?
May 4, 2022 7:30 AM Subscribe
Birth certificate shenanigans?
So, my dad lost my birth certificate because that's how he rolls. 🙄
He needed a copy for some estate planning. I have a tiny wallet-sized copy of my original birth certificate from the District of Columbia (where I was born (duh)) but figured it couldn't hurt to have a copy of my long-form certificate myself, so I went online and ordered a couple of copies.
My mother passed away in 1997. (This is important later.)
My parents were both born in immediately post-Independence India (1950). They do not have birth certificates because India didn't do that kind of thing back then. Record keeping there was pretty shoddy for many decades.
I know for a fact, based on my parents' birthdates, that when I was born, my parents were both 34 years old. I was born in March '85, my dad's birthday is in June, my mom's in November.
My long-form certificate arrives in the mail indicating that my dad was 34 at the time of my birth, but my mom was 33... ??!!
Cue brain explosion.
Could this just be a typo at the time of my birth? A hospital administrator who misheard my mother's birthday? My mother lying about her age due to vanity (not necessarily out of the question).
Or was my mother born in 1951 and my dad and I have been repeating her birthday wrong for... 37 years?!
My mother's parents are dead. All of her siblings are dead (she was the youngest of 6). She is dead. She has no birth certificate. We have no way to confirm whether this is an administrative error or a collective error on my dad's and my parts.
The thing that's sort of wigging me out is that if we have her birth year wrong, that means her fucking GRAVE MARKER is wrong. I'm having all sorts of feelings about this.
Could this in any way impact me? I've been telling doctors that she was born in 1950 all my life when I've had to give family medical history. I was never told otherwise. Any document that I've had to apply for that asks for my parents' DOB says she was born in 1950
This birth certificate is the first time I'm suspecting that something is awry.
Do I need to worry about this?
My Indian and Indian-American Mefite brethren - is there any way, at this point, to somehow track down a birth record for my mom? She was born in the Princely State of Maihar and moved to New Delhi when she was 3 months old when her dad took a job in Nehru's first government.
I'm sort of reeling at this. Her grave marker potentially being wrong is really upsetting me.
Any thoughts as to how this could happen or any way to confirm whether this is an error of any sort would be helpful.
My dad does not think this is a big deal. But my dad is also a classic narcissist with Main Character Syndrome and frequently forgets how old I am too, so...
Help!
So, my dad lost my birth certificate because that's how he rolls. 🙄
He needed a copy for some estate planning. I have a tiny wallet-sized copy of my original birth certificate from the District of Columbia (where I was born (duh)) but figured it couldn't hurt to have a copy of my long-form certificate myself, so I went online and ordered a couple of copies.
My mother passed away in 1997. (This is important later.)
My parents were both born in immediately post-Independence India (1950). They do not have birth certificates because India didn't do that kind of thing back then. Record keeping there was pretty shoddy for many decades.
I know for a fact, based on my parents' birthdates, that when I was born, my parents were both 34 years old. I was born in March '85, my dad's birthday is in June, my mom's in November.
My long-form certificate arrives in the mail indicating that my dad was 34 at the time of my birth, but my mom was 33... ??!!
Cue brain explosion.
Could this just be a typo at the time of my birth? A hospital administrator who misheard my mother's birthday? My mother lying about her age due to vanity (not necessarily out of the question).
Or was my mother born in 1951 and my dad and I have been repeating her birthday wrong for... 37 years?!
My mother's parents are dead. All of her siblings are dead (she was the youngest of 6). She is dead. She has no birth certificate. We have no way to confirm whether this is an administrative error or a collective error on my dad's and my parts.
The thing that's sort of wigging me out is that if we have her birth year wrong, that means her fucking GRAVE MARKER is wrong. I'm having all sorts of feelings about this.
Could this in any way impact me? I've been telling doctors that she was born in 1950 all my life when I've had to give family medical history. I was never told otherwise. Any document that I've had to apply for that asks for my parents' DOB says she was born in 1950
This birth certificate is the first time I'm suspecting that something is awry.
Do I need to worry about this?
My Indian and Indian-American Mefite brethren - is there any way, at this point, to somehow track down a birth record for my mom? She was born in the Princely State of Maihar and moved to New Delhi when she was 3 months old when her dad took a job in Nehru's first government.
I'm sort of reeling at this. Her grave marker potentially being wrong is really upsetting me.
Any thoughts as to how this could happen or any way to confirm whether this is an error of any sort would be helpful.
My dad does not think this is a big deal. But my dad is also a classic narcissist with Main Character Syndrome and frequently forgets how old I am too, so...
Help!
This post was deleted for the following reason: posters request -- frimble
Best answer: Could this just be a typo at the time of my birth? A hospital administrator who misheard my mother's birthday? My mother lying about her age due to vanity (not necessarily out of the question).
Could be any of those, could also be that she had just been through a fairly grueling procedure (having you!) and gave the wrong age. It was only a few months after her birthday, and I am constantly having to think for a second or two to remember how old I am, so I would not be surprised if she made a mental error under the circumstances.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:35 AM on May 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
Could be any of those, could also be that she had just been through a fairly grueling procedure (having you!) and gave the wrong age. It was only a few months after her birthday, and I am constantly having to think for a second or two to remember how old I am, so I would not be surprised if she made a mental error under the circumstances.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:35 AM on May 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
Best answer: My mom's death certificate lists an incorrect birth date for her. I tried to get it fixed, even getting a copy of her birth certificate with the correct date, but the state of Illinois made it as hard as possible (I was supposed to find the doctor who signed the death certificate ten years after her death). I gave up, so now it's just wrong. (I might try again someday now that they'll have more stuff online.)
This is in the US. I just want to stress that mistakes happen. Someone filled it out wrong. I don't know who.
Also, my grandmother was wrong about the year she was born for something like 70 years, at least if her birth certificate is right. So stuff like that happens too.
(My experiences are all in the US.)
posted by FencingGal at 7:40 AM on May 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is in the US. I just want to stress that mistakes happen. Someone filled it out wrong. I don't know who.
Also, my grandmother was wrong about the year she was born for something like 70 years, at least if her birth certificate is right. So stuff like that happens too.
(My experiences are all in the US.)
posted by FencingGal at 7:40 AM on May 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I’d lean toward the certificate being mistaken. For any of the reasons you list. I’m an adoptee so my birth certificate contains several falsehoods. These official records which seem so very important are often not created or maintained with the kind of gravitas or decorum that one would expect. My certificate even has the faked signature of the doctor who delivered me. I think your memory of her birth date is correct.
posted by amanda at 7:52 AM on May 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by amanda at 7:52 AM on May 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
Without her here to answer questions, there are a variety of possibilities and no answers. One possibility is she answered her age based on the Hindu (Saka) Calendar, not the Western Calendar.
I am Chinese, and our elders sometimes answer their age by lunar Calendar, which can be 1 year off depending on which month it is due to the lunar vs solar cycle mismatch and presence of the "leap month" in the lunar calendar.
My question to you is this: does it really matter that much, in the grand scheme of things?
posted by kschang at 7:58 AM on May 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I am Chinese, and our elders sometimes answer their age by lunar Calendar, which can be 1 year off depending on which month it is due to the lunar vs solar cycle mismatch and presence of the "leap month" in the lunar calendar.
My question to you is this: does it really matter that much, in the grand scheme of things?
posted by kschang at 7:58 AM on May 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I mean, in the grand scheme of my life I suppose it doesn't matter, as it seems from the answers I've gotten so far that this shouldn't have any major repercussions for my life administratively.
I think the only thing that is really troubling to me about this is the possibility that her grave marker is incorrect, but that's definitely an emotional response (and I already have complicated-to-negative feelings about the graveyard where my dad chose to bury her ashes).
As for whether she was answering her age based on the Hindu calendar - not likely, as she was a passionate Atheist.
She also self-reported her birth year as 1950 her entire life as far as I can recall, so I think the safest guess is that this is an administrative error.
posted by nayantara at 8:03 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the only thing that is really troubling to me about this is the possibility that her grave marker is incorrect, but that's definitely an emotional response (and I already have complicated-to-negative feelings about the graveyard where my dad chose to bury her ashes).
As for whether she was answering her age based on the Hindu calendar - not likely, as she was a passionate Atheist.
She also self-reported her birth year as 1950 her entire life as far as I can recall, so I think the safest guess is that this is an administrative error.
posted by nayantara at 8:03 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: As far as I know there's no gravestone police, so if your mom's headstone reports the date/age she used her whole life, you should rest easy knowing her self ID is written in stone.
posted by phunniemee at 8:08 AM on May 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 8:08 AM on May 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Best answer: If she always self-reported her birth year as 1950, then don't you think that's the date she would have wanted on her grave marker? Would you want a grave marker for her that wasn't what she herself would have wanted?
posted by Redstart at 8:11 AM on May 4, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 8:11 AM on May 4, 2022 [12 favorites]
Response by poster: Redstart - fair point. That does make sense.
Man I just wish record keeping in India wasn't so crappy back then! This is something that's going to live rent-free in my mind for ages. I'm no longer distressed but I am wildly curious as to what happened.
posted by nayantara at 8:28 AM on May 4, 2022
Man I just wish record keeping in India wasn't so crappy back then! This is something that's going to live rent-free in my mind for ages. I'm no longer distressed but I am wildly curious as to what happened.
posted by nayantara at 8:28 AM on May 4, 2022
My mother lying about her age due to vanity
The gestational parent being 35 at the child's birth is considered "advanced maternal age" and associated with various risks, and hearing that could have been an impetus for her to round downwards even throughout her whole pregnancy to distance herself from it. Or, yes, a clerical error is certainly possible: I've accidentally made far more nonsensical mistakes when entering data like these, and it's difficult to catch when both versions look equally plausible. Birthdays in particular are tough because if there's some similarity to one's own or a family member's, there's the impulse to record that much more familiar date.
posted by teremala at 8:47 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The gestational parent being 35 at the child's birth is considered "advanced maternal age" and associated with various risks, and hearing that could have been an impetus for her to round downwards even throughout her whole pregnancy to distance herself from it. Or, yes, a clerical error is certainly possible: I've accidentally made far more nonsensical mistakes when entering data like these, and it's difficult to catch when both versions look equally plausible. Birthdays in particular are tough because if there's some similarity to one's own or a family member's, there's the impulse to record that much more familiar date.
posted by teremala at 8:47 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the only thing that is really troubling to me about this is the possibility that her grave marker is incorrect, but that's definitely an emotional response (and I already have complicated-to-negative feelings about the graveyard where my dad chose to bury her ashes).
My father is listed on his parents' grave marker incorrectly, because someone else in the family thought they were being 'helpful'. I still find it mildly troubling, so I think your complicated feelings are completely normal. Bereavement is weird, but if you can find a way to be comfortable with what has been written in stone I think that's for the best. There are many possible explanations, choose to believe the one that makes the most sense to you.
posted by plonkee at 9:08 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
My father is listed on his parents' grave marker incorrectly, because someone else in the family thought they were being 'helpful'. I still find it mildly troubling, so I think your complicated feelings are completely normal. Bereavement is weird, but if you can find a way to be comfortable with what has been written in stone I think that's for the best. There are many possible explanations, choose to believe the one that makes the most sense to you.
posted by plonkee at 9:08 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: She was born in the Princely State of Maihar and moved to New Delhi when she was 3 months old when her dad took a job in Nehru's first government.
No idea if you would be able to track this down, but if you are unable to track down her birth date in records in India, maybe you could find out when your grandfather took the job. Or if you know much about what he did or how long he was there it could give you clues.
For example a quick Wikipedia search says that the government was from 1947 to April 1952, with the outgoing elections taking place between Oct 1951 and February 1952. If your mother was born in November 1951 and they moved in February 1952, they would have moved at the end of the elections and he would have only been there (working for that particular government) for a few months. It’s possibly more likely that they moved in February 1951 (and she was born in Nov 1950), before they knew the administration would be over in a few months? Just some thoughts, and any additional info you might have could narrow it down!
posted by sillysally at 9:29 AM on May 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
No idea if you would be able to track this down, but if you are unable to track down her birth date in records in India, maybe you could find out when your grandfather took the job. Or if you know much about what he did or how long he was there it could give you clues.
For example a quick Wikipedia search says that the government was from 1947 to April 1952, with the outgoing elections taking place between Oct 1951 and February 1952. If your mother was born in November 1951 and they moved in February 1952, they would have moved at the end of the elections and he would have only been there (working for that particular government) for a few months. It’s possibly more likely that they moved in February 1951 (and she was born in Nov 1950), before they knew the administration would be over in a few months? Just some thoughts, and any additional info you might have could narrow it down!
posted by sillysally at 9:29 AM on May 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also I’m assuming you are an only child, otherwise I would recommend cross checking with your siblings’ birth certificates.
posted by sillysally at 9:32 AM on May 4, 2022
posted by sillysally at 9:32 AM on May 4, 2022
Best answer: I assume your birth certificate was a paper form fed into a typewriter. (Mine was, at least, and I'm only a few years older than you.) If so, the possibility of a mere typo is extremely high in this particular scenario. Not only is the incorrect second digit adjacent to the correct key (as would be the case for all ages other than X0-X1), but the incorrect second digit is also the same as the first digit. It's quite possible that the typist hit the 3 key, then thought they were moving their finger over to the 4 key, but after pressing it, oops, still on the 3. Depending on the typewriter model, it would be difficult to impossible to correct the mistake, and since it didn't affect anything and it erred on the side of youthfulness and vanity, the typist probably just left the typo as is and moved on to the next one in their stack of birth certificates.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Clarifying my above, the first Nehru ministry was followed by the second, but maybe you know if he worked in the second as well, or only in the first, or some other info to help narrow it down)
posted by sillysally at 11:07 AM on May 4, 2022
posted by sillysally at 11:07 AM on May 4, 2022
My mom was born in the US and lived her entire life until her parents died and she discovered the original copy of her birth certificate - to find that her name had been misspelled for her entire life, including throughout all her school years, getting her driver's license, getting married, graduating from college, and dying. Every single document has her misspelled name. Of course this if before Real ID, but in the end it never mattered. It certainly has never mattered to me in terms of my legal identity.
posted by citygirl at 11:10 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by citygirl at 11:10 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I think genealogists and historians will tell you that much larger inconsistencies are very common in all sorts of life records. In my limited experience, if an official notices and huffs at you, you can be sorry for the incompetence of a previous official and go with whichever interpretation this official likes.
posted by clew at 11:32 AM on May 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by clew at 11:32 AM on May 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
Best answer: My parents were born in pre-partition India as well and while I "know" their dates of birth I would wager they're as accurate as December 25, year 0, is Jesus' birthday. Same goes for all my uncles and aunts.
Have your parents kept any documents from when they immigrated to the US? I'd imagine the government would have asked for as much ID as they could at that time.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Have your parents kept any documents from when they immigrated to the US? I'd imagine the government would have asked for as much ID as they could at that time.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: sillysally your timeline for a November 1950 birthdate checks out based on my knowledge of my grandfather's career (he served in both of Nehru's ministries). And kevinbelt's explanation of a key entry error on a typewriter totally checks out too. I'm going to choose to frame this as either a key entry error or perhaps my mom being so exhausted post-labor that she had a brain fart when telling the administrator her age. (Hell sometimes I forget how old I am and I haven't given birth ever, I'm just a bit spacey sometimes.)
Alas I am an only child so no siblings to cross-reference this with. I am very close to one of my cousins on my mom's side who is a professor in Delhi and may have some access to archival info about our grandfather or at least some insight into whether there could be any birth records in existence in anyway. But everyone's very helpful answers here have helped me feel less confused/distressed about this - again my main concern is whether this could bite me bureaucratically down the line but it looks like these kinds of errors are not uncommon and don't really impact me in any meaningful way.
Thanks all for your input!
posted by nayantara at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Alas I am an only child so no siblings to cross-reference this with. I am very close to one of my cousins on my mom's side who is a professor in Delhi and may have some access to archival info about our grandfather or at least some insight into whether there could be any birth records in existence in anyway. But everyone's very helpful answers here have helped me feel less confused/distressed about this - again my main concern is whether this could bite me bureaucratically down the line but it looks like these kinds of errors are not uncommon and don't really impact me in any meaningful way.
Thanks all for your input!
posted by nayantara at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: any portmanteau - my dad might have those records but he probably doesn't because he loses things/throws away things constantly without thinking of repercussions (hence me needing to order replacement copies of the birth certificate). He threw away all of my mother's medical records, which tracked her cancer diagnosis/remission/recurrence/complications and was something that my endocrinologist and gynecologist were curious about (she had cervical cancer) as they are working in tandem to treat my PCOS. But he does have near-photographic memory of all she went through and was able to summarize it in great detail for me as he was her primary caretaker so it didn't matter in the end. But yeah, my dad loses shit all the time. C'est la vie.
posted by nayantara at 11:41 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by nayantara at 11:41 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My grandfather's first name and middle name are swapped on his birth certificate, compared to what is on his grave, and what my mother and her siblings always thought was the correct order. My wife's father's birthday is simply listed as January 1st for official purposes, because he too was born in a place without much record-keeping, and nobody remembers the actual date. Mistakes in this sort of thing are common.
This may not be very helpful, but if I were in your shoes, I'd challenge why I think that date is so important. The grave marker is still correct in its most critical function - it's still the resting place of your mother, and her legacy and history aren't jeopardized by this ambiguity. She was still the same person.
But, FWIW, it seems much more likely that there was a typo in the birth certificate, versus your father being wrong about his partner's age.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:41 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
This may not be very helpful, but if I were in your shoes, I'd challenge why I think that date is so important. The grave marker is still correct in its most critical function - it's still the resting place of your mother, and her legacy and history aren't jeopardized by this ambiguity. She was still the same person.
But, FWIW, it seems much more likely that there was a typo in the birth certificate, versus your father being wrong about his partner's age.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:41 AM on May 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My kid's birth certificate had a mistake on it and getting it corrected meant a bunch of paperwork and a trip to to the courthouse. Your parents might have noticed the mistake (if that's what it was) and just not ever bothered getting it fixed.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:19 AM on May 5, 2022
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:19 AM on May 5, 2022
Best answer: Genealogy is one of my hobbies so I spend a lot of time looking at scans of old records. Birthdates (and everything else!) get written down incorrectly all the time.
posted by Jacqueline at 4:24 AM on May 6, 2022
posted by Jacqueline at 4:24 AM on May 6, 2022
Best answer: My husband’s biological sex was marked wrong on his birth certificate (US, late 1960’s). There was nothing ambiguous about his biological sex. Mistakes happen.
posted by vitabellosi at 12:18 AM on May 7, 2022
posted by vitabellosi at 12:18 AM on May 7, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by nayantara at 7:31 AM on May 4, 2022