Lawn to fescue transition
April 4, 2022 11:54 AM Subscribe
I'd like to convert my smallish lawn into a fescue or other more drought-tolerant/ native vegetation. In my ideal situation, I'd overseed the fescue on my lawn over the course of a few years and eventually my preferred plant would just win out. Is that possible? Or is the only way to accomplish this to do a complete sod removal and reseeding?
Contrary to what you might hear, lawn grass is an insanely resilient crop that survives extremely well in acceptable to good condition on nothing more than rainwater (unless you live in a literal desert), and will totally out compete any local ground cover plant under-yard like conditions.
So yeah, you have to cover it or rip it out.
Also you don't say what your current lawn grass is, but fescue is a common cool-season lawn grass (means it doesn't do well in the hot summers, ie: temps regularly above about 85F) and that also means it's not particularly heat or drought tolerant, so what you have would most likely outcompete fescue, unless you water a lot.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:22 PM on April 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
So yeah, you have to cover it or rip it out.
Also you don't say what your current lawn grass is, but fescue is a common cool-season lawn grass (means it doesn't do well in the hot summers, ie: temps regularly above about 85F) and that also means it's not particularly heat or drought tolerant, so what you have would most likely outcompete fescue, unless you water a lot.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:22 PM on April 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you have droughts and your current lawn isn’t drought-tolerant, the next drought will kill it back and you can seed into that. If your grass survives unwatered better than fescue does, as The_Vegetables surmises, keep the grass.
It’s still cool underfoot and alive underground even when it turns brown, I find on the West Coast. Many fashionable alternatives described as drought-tolerant require more inputs and more maintenance than just cutting your grass short in late spring and letting it go natural.
PLUS that’s a perfect time to poink out any rosette weeds.
posted by clew at 2:30 PM on April 4, 2022
It’s still cool underfoot and alive underground even when it turns brown, I find on the West Coast. Many fashionable alternatives described as drought-tolerant require more inputs and more maintenance than just cutting your grass short in late spring and letting it go natural.
PLUS that’s a perfect time to poink out any rosette weeds.
posted by clew at 2:30 PM on April 4, 2022
When I wanted to re-do my lawn a few years ago I solarized it suing the procedure I found in Paul Tukeys organic lawn care book. The basic procedure is that you water the hell out of the lawn after it starts getting hot out. then you cover it with thin clear plastic that's sealed at the edges and you leave it until it cooks the grass/weeds/seeds to death and then you can start over.
That book also has some good advice about what kind of grass you can plant that meets the goals of want you want from your lawn.
posted by Dr. Twist at 3:06 PM on April 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
That book also has some good advice about what kind of grass you can plant that meets the goals of want you want from your lawn.
posted by Dr. Twist at 3:06 PM on April 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
fescue is a common cool-season lawn grass (means it doesn't do well in the hot summers, ie: temps regularly above about 85F) and that also means it's not particularly heat or drought tolerant, so what you have would most likely outcompete fescue, unless you water a lot.
It's true that summer temps regularly above 85 is not good for them, but within those parameters they can be acclimatized to being quite drought tolerant. Tall fescue and red fescue can establish very deep root systems. It's best to plant in fall to take advantage of winter rain (if you live in a place not suffering from severe winterdrought, that is). Once established they must be watered deeply and infrequently to drive their roots into the soil.
I agree that fescue is likely to be outcompeted- many drought tolerant plants have a characteristic of not being fast growing, especially in hot weather. If you really want your lawn to succeed, do a proper removal and preparation for a seed lawn. It will be most successful and drought tolerant if you don't skip these steps (or use sod).
posted by oneirodynia at 3:10 PM on April 4, 2022
It's true that summer temps regularly above 85 is not good for them, but within those parameters they can be acclimatized to being quite drought tolerant. Tall fescue and red fescue can establish very deep root systems. It's best to plant in fall to take advantage of winter rain (if you live in a place not suffering from severe winterdrought, that is). Once established they must be watered deeply and infrequently to drive their roots into the soil.
I agree that fescue is likely to be outcompeted- many drought tolerant plants have a characteristic of not being fast growing, especially in hot weather. If you really want your lawn to succeed, do a proper removal and preparation for a seed lawn. It will be most successful and drought tolerant if you don't skip these steps (or use sod).
posted by oneirodynia at 3:10 PM on April 4, 2022
fescue... can be acclimatized to being quite drought tolerant.
Yes, I'm not downing fescue as an excellent lawn grass, but under those same parameters warm-weather lawn grasses that are bred for summer conditions and already exist will thrive and outcompete fescue, and any damage/worn spots in fescue will be overtaken by ones meant for summer conditions that have equally deep rooting systems and faster spread unless specifically maintained for fescue.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:18 PM on April 4, 2022
Yes, I'm not downing fescue as an excellent lawn grass, but under those same parameters warm-weather lawn grasses that are bred for summer conditions and already exist will thrive and outcompete fescue, and any damage/worn spots in fescue will be overtaken by ones meant for summer conditions that have equally deep rooting systems and faster spread unless specifically maintained for fescue.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:18 PM on April 4, 2022
PS: I prefer sheet mulching to solarization for lawn killing: there can be toxic residues left in soil from plastic sheeting; and plastic sheeting is made from oil, and must go into a landfill. The two ways of removing a lawn are discussed here.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:21 PM on April 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 3:21 PM on April 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well it depends on where the OP is planning to plant this lawn- i.e. hardly anyone on the West Coast is going to grow warm-season grasses because they don't want a brown lawn in winter. Kikuyu and Bermuda grasses are considered invasive in Northern California. They might be appropriate in parts of southern California, but in this state where we experience no rainfall from May to October there's still only a limited geography where warm-season grasses are used, and fescue is generally the go-to grass for drought tolerance, even if it's not as deep-rooted as Bermuda.
So Think_Long, you may get even more specific answers to your question with a location added.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:49 PM on April 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
So Think_Long, you may get even more specific answers to your question with a location added.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:49 PM on April 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Good point. What’s your climate, what’s your aspect (shade or sun), and what are you optimizing for?
posted by clew at 5:02 PM on April 4, 2022
posted by clew at 5:02 PM on April 4, 2022
I’m in zone 4 and have been trying to establish a no mow fescue “eco grass” lawn since 2019, and it’s been a lot harder than I expected. I started from bare dirt when I regraded part of my yard, and the first two years I really struggled with weeds. I did a lot of manual weeding, and it sucked. Then I overseeded with Dutch white clover, which did better. Last year we had a record drought, and I didn’t water it at all. The clover completely died, chunks of fescue survived, and Creeping Charlie snuck in and established a foothold.
I ended up also digging up 75% of the rest of my sod and planting native meadow seed mixes. Those parts of my yard are thriving and are 100% more rewarding - you might want to consider a hardy meadow mix rather than grass if you’re at all interested in providing a mini ecosystem for pollinators and birds.
posted by Maarika at 5:43 PM on April 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I ended up also digging up 75% of the rest of my sod and planting native meadow seed mixes. Those parts of my yard are thriving and are 100% more rewarding - you might want to consider a hardy meadow mix rather than grass if you’re at all interested in providing a mini ecosystem for pollinators and birds.
posted by Maarika at 5:43 PM on April 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The design space, goals, and methods here are vast.
In addition to your rough location and sun exposure, your usage goals, and your desired maintenance and esp willingness to mow (and mow technology) are very important.
Sedges are great and you can find native types that will work in your yard for light/moderate foot traffic. They are pretty and ecologically useful and don't need more than yearly maintenance.
Where I want higher traffic "turf" to play games with kids and pets etc, I have grasses, clover, mock strawberry, violets, and ground Ivy. I mow it rarely with a push-reel mower, and I never water it (outside of establishment phase). But that's in IL and I get good rain and good soil, so it not something anyone can do.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:06 PM on April 4, 2022
In addition to your rough location and sun exposure, your usage goals, and your desired maintenance and esp willingness to mow (and mow technology) are very important.
Sedges are great and you can find native types that will work in your yard for light/moderate foot traffic. They are pretty and ecologically useful and don't need more than yearly maintenance.
Where I want higher traffic "turf" to play games with kids and pets etc, I have grasses, clover, mock strawberry, violets, and ground Ivy. I mow it rarely with a push-reel mower, and I never water it (outside of establishment phase). But that's in IL and I get good rain and good soil, so it not something anyone can do.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:06 PM on April 4, 2022
Response by poster: Great conversation all. I’m in 4b/5a (MN USA) and it’s a mix of full sun and full shade. My preference would be infrequent reel mowing and no watering.
I’m an enthusiastic gardener so have no problem putting the work in, I’m just not looking forward to looking at bare dirt for an extended period of time.
posted by Think_Long at 6:59 PM on April 4, 2022
I’m an enthusiastic gardener so have no problem putting the work in, I’m just not looking forward to looking at bare dirt for an extended period of time.
posted by Think_Long at 6:59 PM on April 4, 2022
Tapestry lawn is a way to think of this. All good answers above. We stripped turf and weeded, then planted various things. Spring will tell how well this worked.
posted by lathrop at 8:04 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by lathrop at 8:04 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
The University of Minnesota extension recommends a mix of fine fescue and bluegrass for minimum imput (no watering, mow once a week or less) lawns.
posted by radiogreentea at 9:03 AM on April 5, 2022
posted by radiogreentea at 9:03 AM on April 5, 2022
One great thing about the species I mentioned is that they cut great with a reel mower! I sometimes struggle with grass when it gets taller, but all those nice broad leaves of the native violets snip off perfectly.
As an ecologist I am keenly aware of the desire and benefits of native plants, but the clover and ground ivy do get used by a range of native insects, and lots of native birds eat the mock strawberry.
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:36 AM on April 5, 2022
As an ecologist I am keenly aware of the desire and benefits of native plants, but the clover and ground ivy do get used by a range of native insects, and lots of native birds eat the mock strawberry.
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:36 AM on April 5, 2022
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posted by holgate at 12:12 PM on April 4, 2022