Why do I struggle so much to make gay friends?
March 17, 2022 12:08 PM
No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to make gay friends. Somehow, this doesn't seem to be a problem when I try to just make friends.
For reference, I am in my late twenties/early thirties and of course, a gay man. I would consider myself an extrovert, and in particular, am happiest when I have lots of friends.
I feel like I should probably start by stating why I want gay friends. To be honest, I think the real reason is that I often see groups of gay friends on social media (or really Instagram) having fun on brunch or vacation or whatever, and would like to be part of such a group myself. Maybe a more mature reason is that I would like to feel part of the gay community, and to be able to go to gay or queer spaces in a way that makes me feel like I belong.
Over the years, I've tried very hard to make gay friends. I've joined multiple sports teams, done various volunteer work, and of course, used apps that other people seem to be able to use to make friends. My experience has mostly been poor. People don't seem interested in getting to know me, no matter how hard I try. They don't ask me questions about my life, they hang out together without me, they don't respond to my texts, and they forget about me. When I try to remind them that I exist, they forget about me again. I cry a lot, because of how difficult this seems to be for me.
I think at this point, it's natural to look inward. Maybe I am being paranoid about body language and tone, maybe I need to do a better job of making my presence known, or maybe I need to initiate more. But in addition to trying to specifically make gay friends, I've tried to make friends in contexts where sexuality isn't relevant (as I said earlier, I am happiest when I have a lot of friends). And somehow, the situation is completely reversed.
In particular, I've also tried to make friends through athletic groups and volunteer work and apps, all of which are in a non-gay context. And everyone I meet is incredibly nice to me. So nice that I feel guilty asking this question. When I tell them about how I'm applying for jobs, they offer to help practice interviewing and negotiating. They invite me to go on long runs even though my pace is a good 3 minutes per mile slower. They include me even though I don't know if I deserve it, because I spend so much time trying to make gay friends.
To give a specific example, a straight friend I made from BumbleBFF who I hadn't seen in months invited me to his Halloween party. He took the time to introduce me to other people attending, and the next day thanked me for coming and sent photos. That day, I went to a kickball team in a gay league, where everyone showed up in their costumes. People on my team were talking amongst themselves about what they had done over the weekend, which mostly included them hanging out with each other but without me because I wasn't invited. No one asked me what I did, and no one talked to me about my costume, but they did whisper about it behind my back. After the kickball game, I went to a race put on by my non-gay running group, where people gave me compliments on my costume, like a lot, were making plans to hang out afterwards, and generally made me feel included and like they liked me as a person.
And this seems to be how things always go. When I try to make friends in a setting that is gay, I feel self-conscious and unlikeable. But when I try to make friends in a setting that is not gay, I feel the exact opposite.
I would like advice on where to go from here. Right now, I feel like convincing myself that having a group of gay friends is just not for me, and to spend my time building friendships with people who actually seem to care about me. But putting it like that, I feel like there must be something really wrong with me. It feels like if anything, I should have the exact opposite experience.
For reference, I am in my late twenties/early thirties and of course, a gay man. I would consider myself an extrovert, and in particular, am happiest when I have lots of friends.
I feel like I should probably start by stating why I want gay friends. To be honest, I think the real reason is that I often see groups of gay friends on social media (or really Instagram) having fun on brunch or vacation or whatever, and would like to be part of such a group myself. Maybe a more mature reason is that I would like to feel part of the gay community, and to be able to go to gay or queer spaces in a way that makes me feel like I belong.
Over the years, I've tried very hard to make gay friends. I've joined multiple sports teams, done various volunteer work, and of course, used apps that other people seem to be able to use to make friends. My experience has mostly been poor. People don't seem interested in getting to know me, no matter how hard I try. They don't ask me questions about my life, they hang out together without me, they don't respond to my texts, and they forget about me. When I try to remind them that I exist, they forget about me again. I cry a lot, because of how difficult this seems to be for me.
I think at this point, it's natural to look inward. Maybe I am being paranoid about body language and tone, maybe I need to do a better job of making my presence known, or maybe I need to initiate more. But in addition to trying to specifically make gay friends, I've tried to make friends in contexts where sexuality isn't relevant (as I said earlier, I am happiest when I have a lot of friends). And somehow, the situation is completely reversed.
In particular, I've also tried to make friends through athletic groups and volunteer work and apps, all of which are in a non-gay context. And everyone I meet is incredibly nice to me. So nice that I feel guilty asking this question. When I tell them about how I'm applying for jobs, they offer to help practice interviewing and negotiating. They invite me to go on long runs even though my pace is a good 3 minutes per mile slower. They include me even though I don't know if I deserve it, because I spend so much time trying to make gay friends.
To give a specific example, a straight friend I made from BumbleBFF who I hadn't seen in months invited me to his Halloween party. He took the time to introduce me to other people attending, and the next day thanked me for coming and sent photos. That day, I went to a kickball team in a gay league, where everyone showed up in their costumes. People on my team were talking amongst themselves about what they had done over the weekend, which mostly included them hanging out with each other but without me because I wasn't invited. No one asked me what I did, and no one talked to me about my costume, but they did whisper about it behind my back. After the kickball game, I went to a race put on by my non-gay running group, where people gave me compliments on my costume, like a lot, were making plans to hang out afterwards, and generally made me feel included and like they liked me as a person.
And this seems to be how things always go. When I try to make friends in a setting that is gay, I feel self-conscious and unlikeable. But when I try to make friends in a setting that is not gay, I feel the exact opposite.
I would like advice on where to go from here. Right now, I feel like convincing myself that having a group of gay friends is just not for me, and to spend my time building friendships with people who actually seem to care about me. But putting it like that, I feel like there must be something really wrong with me. It feels like if anything, I should have the exact opposite experience.
I think part of the problem is that one can't really form friendships solely around "being gay". Because ultimately one's sexuality, while an important part of life, is just a single facet of a person. The gay community is a great place to find allies and places where you can volunteer/mobilize people as a class group, but there is no guarantee that any of the gay people you meet will be similar enough to you to form meaningful friendships. There's a lot of stereotyping of gay people and obsession with "coding" personality traits, but they are ultimately just stereotypes and nothing more. Hanging out with other gay people isn't a guarantee of kinship. There's nothing wrong with you in these situations you describe, it's simply that the only thing you have in common with these people is your sexuality, and you seem to want a connection beyond that.
In my experience as a lesbian, the only way I've found to make other genuine lesbian friendships was to simply stumble into them or use the LGBT community as an ice-breaker, not a recruitment force . We're promised so much about acceptance and The Gay CommunityTM but in my experience, sexuality alone is not enough common ground for the kind of friendship you're wanting. It's more of a starting point, and the rest is what you make of it. That being said, having casual friends to chat with about shared experiences is a great to do via LGBT meetup groups and events, but the big thing is that you got to get out there and chat with people about things beyond the often stereotype-addled surface. When you're in these majority-gay spaces, have you chatted with people about their work, their interests, their passions? In my experience the best way to make friends is to have genuine interest in the whole person.
posted by Pemberly at 12:49 PM on March 17, 2022
In my experience as a lesbian, the only way I've found to make other genuine lesbian friendships was to simply stumble into them or use the LGBT community as an ice-breaker, not a recruitment force . We're promised so much about acceptance and The Gay CommunityTM but in my experience, sexuality alone is not enough common ground for the kind of friendship you're wanting. It's more of a starting point, and the rest is what you make of it. That being said, having casual friends to chat with about shared experiences is a great to do via LGBT meetup groups and events, but the big thing is that you got to get out there and chat with people about things beyond the often stereotype-addled surface. When you're in these majority-gay spaces, have you chatted with people about their work, their interests, their passions? In my experience the best way to make friends is to have genuine interest in the whole person.
posted by Pemberly at 12:49 PM on March 17, 2022
To be honest, I think the real reason is that I often see groups of gay friends on social media (or really Instagram) having fun on brunch or vacation or whatever, and would like to be part of such a group myself.
I can't speak to the intricacies of queer communities, and without seeing you in the situations you describe, I couldn't say whether there's something about YOU, or the way you act, that is an issue.
But I would guess that the social media FOMO is probably the crux of the problem. Those are literally just snapshots of a moment in time; you have no idea how the people in those photos actually feel about each other, or how much a part of each others' lives they actually are, or how healthy those dynamics are. Instagram is just an ad. A lot of the time it's LITERALLY an ad. But all the time it's an ad for the personal brand of the person you're following. It's built to make you feel less-than, like there's a life out there you're not part of but maybe you could be if you just looked different or consumed better. It's a lie.
(Based on your specific anecdotes I doubt it has anything to do with the queerness or straightness of these groups and everything to do with the specific interpersonal dynamics. Groups of people are groups of people, no matter what their shared identity is; and a lot of people...suck. People at the kickball game talked about your costume behind your back while deliberately ignoring you? Queer or straight, they're a pack of childish shitheads! You don't wanna go to brunch with shitheads, do you?)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:06 PM on March 17, 2022
I can't speak to the intricacies of queer communities, and without seeing you in the situations you describe, I couldn't say whether there's something about YOU, or the way you act, that is an issue.
But I would guess that the social media FOMO is probably the crux of the problem. Those are literally just snapshots of a moment in time; you have no idea how the people in those photos actually feel about each other, or how much a part of each others' lives they actually are, or how healthy those dynamics are. Instagram is just an ad. A lot of the time it's LITERALLY an ad. But all the time it's an ad for the personal brand of the person you're following. It's built to make you feel less-than, like there's a life out there you're not part of but maybe you could be if you just looked different or consumed better. It's a lie.
(Based on your specific anecdotes I doubt it has anything to do with the queerness or straightness of these groups and everything to do with the specific interpersonal dynamics. Groups of people are groups of people, no matter what their shared identity is; and a lot of people...suck. People at the kickball game talked about your costume behind your back while deliberately ignoring you? Queer or straight, they're a pack of childish shitheads! You don't wanna go to brunch with shitheads, do you?)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:06 PM on March 17, 2022
To give a specific example, a straight friend I made from BumbleBFF who I hadn't seen in months invited me to his Halloween party. He took the time to introduce me to other people attending, and the next day thanked me for coming and sent photos.
I just want to point out that this man made a point of creating a profile on BumbleBFF, so he clearly has some very explicit and direct intention in cultivating friendships and might be making an effort to be thoughtful in a way that folks you've met more organically are not. Also, please do get together with this BumbleBFF person because he sounds like a good friend!
I'm not sure if my experience is relevant or useful, but I'm a straight, cis woman who sometimes has a harder time making friendships with women than men, and, there are a range of reasons, but I think it's for a few reasons: 1) there's a story I tell myself that it's harder to make friends with women, so I'm trying to undo that because maybe I'm unintentionally undermining myself, and 2) because I tend to see friendships with women as more emotionally intimate than with men, so I sometimes have a higher bar for what it means to be friends with a woman. Which is to say, are you, consciously or not, expecting more from friendships with gay people than you do with others?
Also, I want to note that you seem to conflate having gay friends with having a group of gay friends. These aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you see on social media isn't necessarily real life. Also, those people who whispered about your costume seem like meanies, and I hope you are able to get away from them. That sounds hurtful.
I know this is hard because I find it hard. My inclination is to suggest you continue to focus on cultivating friends, not specifically gay friends, at least for a little bit.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:10 PM on March 17, 2022
I just want to point out that this man made a point of creating a profile on BumbleBFF, so he clearly has some very explicit and direct intention in cultivating friendships and might be making an effort to be thoughtful in a way that folks you've met more organically are not. Also, please do get together with this BumbleBFF person because he sounds like a good friend!
I'm not sure if my experience is relevant or useful, but I'm a straight, cis woman who sometimes has a harder time making friendships with women than men, and, there are a range of reasons, but I think it's for a few reasons: 1) there's a story I tell myself that it's harder to make friends with women, so I'm trying to undo that because maybe I'm unintentionally undermining myself, and 2) because I tend to see friendships with women as more emotionally intimate than with men, so I sometimes have a higher bar for what it means to be friends with a woman. Which is to say, are you, consciously or not, expecting more from friendships with gay people than you do with others?
Also, I want to note that you seem to conflate having gay friends with having a group of gay friends. These aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you see on social media isn't necessarily real life. Also, those people who whispered about your costume seem like meanies, and I hope you are able to get away from them. That sounds hurtful.
I know this is hard because I find it hard. My inclination is to suggest you continue to focus on cultivating friends, not specifically gay friends, at least for a little bit.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:10 PM on March 17, 2022
like to feel part of the gay community, and to be able to go to gay or queer spaces in a way that makes me feel like I belong.
Hey ok so I am a straight cis lady so please flag this for deletion if I'm inadvertently being an asshole here, but this sentence really reminds me a LOT of how I felt as a young straight cis lady in re. Being A Woman With Other Women.
The cause was internalized misogyny.
For a long time I didn't feel right in groups with other women because I had been taught by society/media/my limited social skills that women were Like This and all I knew is that I wasn't Like That, and so I was never going to fit in or have women friends or etc etc. I didn't start actually having healthy friendships with other women until I unlearned a lot of that false narrative.
I'm not saying you have internalized homophobia or anything like that, but what I AM getting in waves from your question is a lot of self dislike and low confidence. Remember/notice that the people who you are having successful friendships with are the folks you're engaging with authentically. People like you when you're being yourself, you have proof of that. I had to move past my I'm Not Like Other Girls phase to start getting along with folks, and you do, too. Whatever in your negative self talk is telling you that you're Not Like Other Gays and you don't deserve your community is a lie. People are not a monolith.
edit to add I failed to preview, so yeah ditto bluedaisy basically
posted by phunniemee at 1:15 PM on March 17, 2022
Hey ok so I am a straight cis lady so please flag this for deletion if I'm inadvertently being an asshole here, but this sentence really reminds me a LOT of how I felt as a young straight cis lady in re. Being A Woman With Other Women.
The cause was internalized misogyny.
For a long time I didn't feel right in groups with other women because I had been taught by society/media/my limited social skills that women were Like This and all I knew is that I wasn't Like That, and so I was never going to fit in or have women friends or etc etc. I didn't start actually having healthy friendships with other women until I unlearned a lot of that false narrative.
I'm not saying you have internalized homophobia or anything like that, but what I AM getting in waves from your question is a lot of self dislike and low confidence. Remember/notice that the people who you are having successful friendships with are the folks you're engaging with authentically. People like you when you're being yourself, you have proof of that. I had to move past my I'm Not Like Other Girls phase to start getting along with folks, and you do, too. Whatever in your negative self talk is telling you that you're Not Like Other Gays and you don't deserve your community is a lie. People are not a monolith.
edit to add I failed to preview, so yeah ditto bluedaisy basically
posted by phunniemee at 1:15 PM on March 17, 2022
This might be a bizarre suggestion, but do you need a housemate? Or want to be someone's housemate?
I'll explain - I'm wondering if this has become such a mental/emotional sticking point for you that a longer term exposure might work in your favor. The queer Facebook group for my city seems to function first and foremost as a housemate finder - it makes sense, because obviously us queer folks want to know that we're safe in our homes. If you're able to get a fellow gay housemate, then they'll likely see how confident and comfortable you are when you're around your general friend group. And longer term exposure will mean that they'll see a lot more facets of you than when you're at other events.
I feel for you, it's not immature to want to have friends with important things in common. But I also agree with We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese, that you shouldn't put up with shithead behavior.
posted by leemleem at 1:17 PM on March 17, 2022
I'll explain - I'm wondering if this has become such a mental/emotional sticking point for you that a longer term exposure might work in your favor. The queer Facebook group for my city seems to function first and foremost as a housemate finder - it makes sense, because obviously us queer folks want to know that we're safe in our homes. If you're able to get a fellow gay housemate, then they'll likely see how confident and comfortable you are when you're around your general friend group. And longer term exposure will mean that they'll see a lot more facets of you than when you're at other events.
I feel for you, it's not immature to want to have friends with important things in common. But I also agree with We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese, that you shouldn't put up with shithead behavior.
posted by leemleem at 1:17 PM on March 17, 2022
Ask yourself: Do you like these people apart from them being gay? If they were straight, would you still want to talk to them? Or would you run for the hills?
I wish you the best of luck in making whatever friends you choose (and in DATING other gay men--we aren't necessarily friendliest with those we're attracted to, for better or worse).
posted by kingdead at 1:57 PM on March 17, 2022
I wish you the best of luck in making whatever friends you choose (and in DATING other gay men--we aren't necessarily friendliest with those we're attracted to, for better or worse).
posted by kingdead at 1:57 PM on March 17, 2022
I relate to this question and situation so much.
In my 20s, I joined LGBTQ+ sports groups, affinity groups, political groups, you name it--all in the interest of making gay friends. It took me years before I found any friends out of it, and largely because of what you are describing here. I can't overstate how awful some of those guys were to me.
Through one of these groups, I did end up making a few casual friends, spent a few years describing them as "not kindred spirits, but more people I DO things with" before realizing that they didn't really care about me at all. It was disheartening.
Today (a couple of decades later), I have mostly straight or nominally queer friends. It's very much the way Pemberly describes things above--once I stopped trying to make friends who were gay, I found other people who were better suited to the kind of warmth, engagement, and interest I need from a true friend.
I have a few gay friends, but I didn't meet any of them by seeking them out. Every time, it's been through another mutual interest or affiliation, and for me at least, that was the right way to find them.
posted by yellowcandy at 3:39 PM on March 17, 2022
In my 20s, I joined LGBTQ+ sports groups, affinity groups, political groups, you name it--all in the interest of making gay friends. It took me years before I found any friends out of it, and largely because of what you are describing here. I can't overstate how awful some of those guys were to me.
Through one of these groups, I did end up making a few casual friends, spent a few years describing them as "not kindred spirits, but more people I DO things with" before realizing that they didn't really care about me at all. It was disheartening.
Today (a couple of decades later), I have mostly straight or nominally queer friends. It's very much the way Pemberly describes things above--once I stopped trying to make friends who were gay, I found other people who were better suited to the kind of warmth, engagement, and interest I need from a true friend.
I have a few gay friends, but I didn't meet any of them by seeking them out. Every time, it's been through another mutual interest or affiliation, and for me at least, that was the right way to find them.
posted by yellowcandy at 3:39 PM on March 17, 2022
OK, things don't seem to be working out super well with the kickball team, which means you have very little to lose if you use them as a resource to find other groups instead.
Like, in as friendly and nonjudgemental a way as you can manage (kind of, "oh, that's just the way it is"), but actually say, at the kickball group, that you have been wanting to make more friendships with other gay men, but worry that you haven't been vibing or fitting in well with this group (insert self-deprecating comment about not being good enough at kickball - uh, do you know that people were whispering about your costume? 100% sure?!? If so then it's actually because this group is way too judgemental), but that you'd really appreciate recommendations of any groups or activities where you might fit in better?
If there are people there who don't like you or want to be friends, then you might get lucky in enlisting them so that they might honestly suggest groups that you will fit in better at, if they want you to move on. And they get to alleviate guilt by actually helping.
If *you* have been coming across as standoffish (really common for people to think that someone who is nervous, doesn't like *them*) then that would reinforce that you are genuinely trying to make friends and you have been wanting people to like you.
You could do with the fresh-start.
posted by Elysum at 5:29 PM on March 17, 2022
Like, in as friendly and nonjudgemental a way as you can manage (kind of, "oh, that's just the way it is"), but actually say, at the kickball group, that you have been wanting to make more friendships with other gay men, but worry that you haven't been vibing or fitting in well with this group (insert self-deprecating comment about not being good enough at kickball - uh, do you know that people were whispering about your costume? 100% sure?!? If so then it's actually because this group is way too judgemental), but that you'd really appreciate recommendations of any groups or activities where you might fit in better?
If there are people there who don't like you or want to be friends, then you might get lucky in enlisting them so that they might honestly suggest groups that you will fit in better at, if they want you to move on. And they get to alleviate guilt by actually helping.
If *you* have been coming across as standoffish (really common for people to think that someone who is nervous, doesn't like *them*) then that would reinforce that you are genuinely trying to make friends and you have been wanting people to like you.
You could do with the fresh-start.
posted by Elysum at 5:29 PM on March 17, 2022
I guess to clarify, I get that it's helpful, at least theoretically, to have more in common than just being gay to be friends. But I think what's confusing to me is that, when I'm even less discerning, when I just look for people to be friends with, I'm successful as I mention in my post. My experience is that having an interest in getting to know other people can often be enough to form a friendship. But I don't get even that when I try to make gay friends.
I guess it's helpful also to add that my bar for who I would call a friend might be different than others. I think right now I'm concerned with the question, is this person willing to go to a gay bar with me if I asked them to hang out? And in the city I live in now, the only people I feel like would say yes are straight. And the only people who have taken the initiative to say unprompted to me, we should go to a gay bar together, are straight.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 5:39 PM on March 17, 2022
I guess it's helpful also to add that my bar for who I would call a friend might be different than others. I think right now I'm concerned with the question, is this person willing to go to a gay bar with me if I asked them to hang out? And in the city I live in now, the only people I feel like would say yes are straight. And the only people who have taken the initiative to say unprompted to me, we should go to a gay bar together, are straight.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 5:39 PM on March 17, 2022
Have you thought about leading? Like, make a Facebook Group (I know, ugh) like Fun Gays & Friends Big Gay Brunch Bunch Etc. Have events (start with brunch!) Ask a few of your straight friends to join you and Insta that hell out of that brunch. Invite promising people from the gays you do meet. You're the leader, you're in charge, you can make the social media posts that others FOMO.
You sound JUST FINE, but don't neglect nurturing your straight friends. Real true friendships are rare, and go far beyond sexuality.
posted by cyndigo at 6:16 PM on March 17, 2022
You sound JUST FINE, but don't neglect nurturing your straight friends. Real true friendships are rare, and go far beyond sexuality.
posted by cyndigo at 6:16 PM on March 17, 2022
"And the only people who have taken the initiative to say unprompted to me, we should go to a gay bar together, are straight."
If I were you, I would ask one of these people who offered if they have other gay friends to bring along. Their other gay friends already have the advantage of being friends-of-a-friend, and are, I suspect, more likely to be kind and friendly to you.
posted by yellowcandy at 6:32 PM on March 17, 2022
If I were you, I would ask one of these people who offered if they have other gay friends to bring along. Their other gay friends already have the advantage of being friends-of-a-friend, and are, I suspect, more likely to be kind and friendly to you.
posted by yellowcandy at 6:32 PM on March 17, 2022
This is a good question. Thinking about my own queer friends, I didn't meet any of them doing Gay Stuff, even though I do do that stuff. They're all from the canonical sort of friendmaking experiences like former roommate, had a weird job together, etc. Of course, this feels a lot harder in a way if you're looking for queer friends because the numbers simply aren't in our favor.
posted by dusty potato at 6:37 PM on March 17, 2022
posted by dusty potato at 6:37 PM on March 17, 2022
And in the city I live in now, the only people I feel like would say yes are straight. And the only people who have taken the initiative to say unprompted to me, we should go to a gay bar together, are straight.
Maybe try this out a few times, find a couple bars that feel good, and then go by yourself? I know it's not easy to go to a bar alone, but if there's a gay bar you like with something else to do, like a fun dj night, pub quiz, whatever you're into, then you have an activity besides just sitting and nursing a drink.
I suggest this because at a very low time in my life I found a tiny bar that had a dj night of music I liked, and just went. For the first time in my life, to a bar where I didn't know anyone. I bought a beer and danced. I'm not sure I talked to anyone that night, but it was a monthly, so I kept going and eventually made friends.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:38 PM on March 17, 2022
Maybe try this out a few times, find a couple bars that feel good, and then go by yourself? I know it's not easy to go to a bar alone, but if there's a gay bar you like with something else to do, like a fun dj night, pub quiz, whatever you're into, then you have an activity besides just sitting and nursing a drink.
I suggest this because at a very low time in my life I found a tiny bar that had a dj night of music I liked, and just went. For the first time in my life, to a bar where I didn't know anyone. I bought a beer and danced. I'm not sure I talked to anyone that night, but it was a monthly, so I kept going and eventually made friends.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:38 PM on March 17, 2022
Part of this is a numbers thing. If you get along with 50% of people you meet (which would be a lot! I think I’m closer to maybe 10%) and 90% of the population is straight, there are just fewer gay friends to vibe with in the first place. It does take more effort to find the minority of people you get along with in a minority of the population. It’s not something you are inherently doing wrong, it’s just a matter of continuing to look. Nearly all my friends are queer, and it’s taken a long time for that to be the case. Affinity groups were not a good fit for me because I am not a High Aesthetic Person and somehow it seemed that all the LGBTQ places near me mostly attracted people who wanted to spend much more time on appearance and were very into that as a mode of being in the world. I think that’s great! I really enjoy being acquaintances with high aesthetic people! But we’re never close friends because I am very not that person so we just don’t have a deep vibe together. But wearing a little pride button to other types of things and making friends with the other people who weren’t straight got me a wonderful friend group.
posted by Bottlecap at 9:48 AM on March 18, 2022
posted by Bottlecap at 9:48 AM on March 18, 2022
I'm surprised that there's not more conversation here about sexuality, racism, lookism, and other similar factors, particularly with you bringing up Instagram, gay brunch, a similar reference points. Unquestionably, there's a culture of mostly white gay men than can be very racially exclusive, very dismissive of people who they see as not sexually interesting to them (often based on weight, style, race, or other similarly superficial characteristics), and so on.
Are you POC and the gay guys you're meeting mostly white?
Are you sexually attracted to some of these guys? Do they seem like a group of friends where some of them have dated/hooked up in the past, and now there's an inward-facing sexual line being drawn?
Are you of a similar social class as these guys?
Are you interested in things similar to what they're interested in? (For example do you actually care about these sports teams/volunteer groups? Do they?)
Have you tried to be friends with anyone you've dated/hooked up with but who it didn't work out romantically?
Broadly speaking, I'd recommend looking to make friends among people who are similar to you in terms of social class, interests, etc. -- and yes, even looks and race, as awkward as it may sound to phrase it that way, particularly if you have qualities that our dominant society doesn't value.
Continue doing what you're doing among those types of people, and I think you'll be okay. Also, don't expect a group of 8 gay friends taking brunch Instagram pictures. Could you really ever be *meaningfully close* with 8 people like that?
posted by lewedswiver at 4:51 PM on March 18, 2022
Are you POC and the gay guys you're meeting mostly white?
Are you sexually attracted to some of these guys? Do they seem like a group of friends where some of them have dated/hooked up in the past, and now there's an inward-facing sexual line being drawn?
Are you of a similar social class as these guys?
Are you interested in things similar to what they're interested in? (For example do you actually care about these sports teams/volunteer groups? Do they?)
Have you tried to be friends with anyone you've dated/hooked up with but who it didn't work out romantically?
Broadly speaking, I'd recommend looking to make friends among people who are similar to you in terms of social class, interests, etc. -- and yes, even looks and race, as awkward as it may sound to phrase it that way, particularly if you have qualities that our dominant society doesn't value.
Continue doing what you're doing among those types of people, and I think you'll be okay. Also, don't expect a group of 8 gay friends taking brunch Instagram pictures. Could you really ever be *meaningfully close* with 8 people like that?
posted by lewedswiver at 4:51 PM on March 18, 2022
Just want to second lewedswiver and those suggestions . . . from your previous questions it sounds like you aren't white. There are a lot of white gay men who are racist and just never really try to address it because they assume being gay means they can't be discriminatory towards other people (i.e. "I know what it's like to be discriminated against so my views can't be biased"). This intersects with lookism and a really narrow band of what's considered attractive to create really toxic subcommunities. If you're focusing on athletic-type groups the lookism can be an even bigger factor. If you haven't branched out into LGBTQ+ groups that aren't dominated by fit, white, gay cis-men, then I would try those. It goes without saying--it's tremendously shitty that we live in a world where that's something that you'd need to consider. You should be able to join a kickball league and just play kickball without having to worry about those dynamics!
Also: please don't listen to anyone who says it's exclusionary to want gay friends. It is comforting to have a friend or friends who share your identity, who might implicitly get where you're coming from and who you don't have to test out to see how much they'll accept you before allowing yourself to let your guard down.
posted by Anonymous at 11:30 AM on March 21, 2022
Also: please don't listen to anyone who says it's exclusionary to want gay friends. It is comforting to have a friend or friends who share your identity, who might implicitly get where you're coming from and who you don't have to test out to see how much they'll accept you before allowing yourself to let your guard down.
posted by Anonymous at 11:30 AM on March 21, 2022
A small update, I recently traveled to a Latin American country. I made more gay friends who were friendly and inviting in three weeks than I have in my city (which I'll go ahead and say is Chicago) in three years. And this is without joining a kickball team or volunteering or trying very hard at all to be honest.
I think there's still something going on. All two of the Chicagoans who invited me to hang out with them for pride were straight white men. But it is helpful to know that all I need to do to make gay friends is to go to another country.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 11:56 AM on July 5, 2022
I think there's still something going on. All two of the Chicagoans who invited me to hang out with them for pride were straight white men. But it is helpful to know that all I need to do to make gay friends is to go to another country.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 11:56 AM on July 5, 2022
I just wanted to add another aspect that I think might explain some of the issues I've been having, which is of gender diversity. All of the experiences I mentioned in my question of making gay friends were in spaces where the vast majority of people were men. Most of the experiences I mentioned in my question of making friends in general tended to have more gender diversity.
This thought came up because something happened in a gay running group I joined (again, mostly men), that almost replicated an experience I had in grad school, in a field where the vast majority of people are men. And I also struggled to make friends in grad school with other grad students in my field. Really, the only difference was I for whatever reason was willing to accept that making friends with grad students would be difficult.
On the other hand, I've been going to a queer meetup that has a lot of gender diversity, and the experience is more like when I try to make friends in general. People approach me and introduce themselves to me and make me feel included. They reach out afterwards to tell me they appreciated meeting me. And they make it very clear that they are interested in being friends with me, which in turn makes me feel like I'm having an easier time making friends.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 8:13 PM on December 16, 2022
This thought came up because something happened in a gay running group I joined (again, mostly men), that almost replicated an experience I had in grad school, in a field where the vast majority of people are men. And I also struggled to make friends in grad school with other grad students in my field. Really, the only difference was I for whatever reason was willing to accept that making friends with grad students would be difficult.
On the other hand, I've been going to a queer meetup that has a lot of gender diversity, and the experience is more like when I try to make friends in general. People approach me and introduce themselves to me and make me feel included. They reach out afterwards to tell me they appreciated meeting me. And they make it very clear that they are interested in being friends with me, which in turn makes me feel like I'm having an easier time making friends.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 8:13 PM on December 16, 2022
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So, like, what kind of gay are you? To illustrate what I mean: I am not a cool queer, I am a nerdy weirdo queer. I do not fit in with hip queer people, even hip activist queer people. They meet me, they are briefly fooled by my hair when I'm maintaining a cool haircut and then they figure out that I'm a boring weirdo and that's that. Like, I actually hung out with a couple of cool queer people once and they literally blanked me the next time we met, I think because I confessed that my clothes were mostly from eBay, to which one of them had said "gross!!!".
Also, are you gregarious and extroverted? I am not, and I don't fit into fun crowds - my idea of fun is hanging out and talking about stuff or maybe going to a museum. So I am not going to meet friends in situations that attract the gregarious type.
Basically, I go places that are queer friendly but predominantly nerdy and my friends have come from those spaces. (I've lost some friends during the pandemic through drift, though, and need to step up my friend game again.) My friends are not a tight-knit group who all know each other.
Alison Bechdel once said that she wrote Dykes To Watch Out For about this tight-knit group of lesbian friends (and later other queer people) but had never really had that large, tight-knit social circle. I observe that often what appears to be a large but tight-knit social circle is extremely transient - like, people are besties for six months and then split town or have a big fight or something horrible comes out about one of them and the group fragments.
I feel like there is weird stuff around intimacy in queer circles - instant intimacy that falls apart sometimes, grouping around hatred of an outgroup at other times. You are not alone in your difficulty in finding queer friends. Like, when I see all the cool art queers hanging out at events, I wish i too was a cool art queer....but then I think about all the cool art queer drama and meanness and abuse that I hear about from some of my other friends and how those groups are not always how they look.
posted by Frowner at 12:23 PM on March 17, 2022