Generator, here is my house. Do your magic.
February 21, 2022 7:22 PM Subscribe
I need to buy a generator for my house. What kind should I get and how do I make it work?
I recently moved to a house in upstate NY. We just had an insane ice storm and 70% of the surrounding area lost power for 3 days. By some miracle, I only lost it for a few minutes. But that got me thinking.... I really need to get a generator.
I have no idea how generators work! My parents have a 20 year old one that runs on gasoline, is ear splittingly loud, and is strong enough to power their furnace, water, kitchen, and bathroom. They keep it outside and plug it into some special socket in the side of the house. I have no idea how to replicate this in my house.
First question - what kind of generator do I need? I live in a little old brick house, two stories high, maybe 1400 square feet? My biggest concern of course is keeping the pipes from freezing. So I would need the furnace to be powered and I guess the hot water heater. And then next I guess the kitchen and bathroom? So whatever size is powerful enough to do that. And also, it has to be quiet or my neighbors will kill me. And do they all run on gasoline? Is there any other option?
Second question - Once I choose a generator and buy it from I guess Lowes or Home Depot or somewhere like that, how do I hook it up to my house? I think they have to be outside, right? Or are the new ones now able to be inside, like in my basement? I dont think my house has that special type socket that my parents have in their house.
I really dont know where to start with this! The other generator questions on Ask are either really old or the asker already knew the basics and just wanted to discuss size etc.
I recently moved to a house in upstate NY. We just had an insane ice storm and 70% of the surrounding area lost power for 3 days. By some miracle, I only lost it for a few minutes. But that got me thinking.... I really need to get a generator.
I have no idea how generators work! My parents have a 20 year old one that runs on gasoline, is ear splittingly loud, and is strong enough to power their furnace, water, kitchen, and bathroom. They keep it outside and plug it into some special socket in the side of the house. I have no idea how to replicate this in my house.
First question - what kind of generator do I need? I live in a little old brick house, two stories high, maybe 1400 square feet? My biggest concern of course is keeping the pipes from freezing. So I would need the furnace to be powered and I guess the hot water heater. And then next I guess the kitchen and bathroom? So whatever size is powerful enough to do that. And also, it has to be quiet or my neighbors will kill me. And do they all run on gasoline? Is there any other option?
Second question - Once I choose a generator and buy it from I guess Lowes or Home Depot or somewhere like that, how do I hook it up to my house? I think they have to be outside, right? Or are the new ones now able to be inside, like in my basement? I dont think my house has that special type socket that my parents have in their house.
I really dont know where to start with this! The other generator questions on Ask are either really old or the asker already knew the basics and just wanted to discuss size etc.
Like so many other things, it depends on your budget. When the time came for me to get one, I got a propane powered one that's hardwired into the panel, and has some little magic thing that tells it when the power goes off and it kicks in automatically. I don't have to worry about whether I'm away. And I sized it up enough that EVERYTHING runs. I need power for both heat and water (my well is 136 feet deep, this won't be a problem for you if you're in town), and it has provided real peace of mind. Wasn't cheap, though. It was several years ago, so I'm not going to bother with telling you how much it was.
I didn't do a thing other than write the cheque... you want an electrician when you're messing about with mains electricity.
posted by kate4914 at 7:44 PM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
I didn't do a thing other than write the cheque... you want an electrician when you're messing about with mains electricity.
posted by kate4914 at 7:44 PM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Standby generators are permanently installed outside, like an AC condenser. They are made to monitor the power and turn on automatically when the power fails. Obviously, more expensive, but that’s what I want to install at my house.
I have one of these. I warn you, they still are kind of loud. And yeah you will need it installed by an electrician. They way it works in my house is that it notices when the power is off and it kicks in within about a minute or two. It runs off of the natural gas line and powers some but not all of the house. Turns off when the power comes back on. Specifically it runs the refrigerator, the furnace, the water pump and a few other things. When you're not using them they usually need to run once a week for a short amount of time (and you can schedule this so it's at a time that isn't middle of the night or 6 am) so they know they are working. And you need to get them serviced once a year or so.
posted by jessamyn at 7:52 PM on February 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
I have one of these. I warn you, they still are kind of loud. And yeah you will need it installed by an electrician. They way it works in my house is that it notices when the power is off and it kicks in within about a minute or two. It runs off of the natural gas line and powers some but not all of the house. Turns off when the power comes back on. Specifically it runs the refrigerator, the furnace, the water pump and a few other things. When you're not using them they usually need to run once a week for a short amount of time (and you can schedule this so it's at a time that isn't middle of the night or 6 am) so they know they are working. And you need to get them serviced once a year or so.
posted by jessamyn at 7:52 PM on February 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
Others have mentioned the switch but I want to be explicit on why you need it because it's important: the reason you have an electrician install the manual transfer switch for your gas generator is because if not it could backfeed power up the line, which is illegal because you can hurt or kill the crew working to restore power because they're expecting a dead line.
posted by bluecore at 8:12 PM on February 21, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by bluecore at 8:12 PM on February 21, 2022 [12 favorites]
Another avenue you might care to explore is huge batteries. These still cost quite a lot more than generators for the same capacity, but going that way would give you no noise issue at all and no fumes to get rid of if you'd rather install it indoors.
Batteries can be set up to switch automatically from mains power to battery power and back so fast that your house would probably not even notice a mains outage, and they need much less maintenance than generators do. To keep your house compliant with applicable regulations and line workers safe, you'd need an islanding controller.
The best people to get advice from about these options will probably be your local rooftop solar contractors, because batteries and islanding are more often seen as co-installations with solar panels than used for pure outage protection.
posted by flabdablet at 8:47 PM on February 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Batteries can be set up to switch automatically from mains power to battery power and back so fast that your house would probably not even notice a mains outage, and they need much less maintenance than generators do. To keep your house compliant with applicable regulations and line workers safe, you'd need an islanding controller.
The best people to get advice from about these options will probably be your local rooftop solar contractors, because batteries and islanding are more often seen as co-installations with solar panels than used for pure outage protection.
posted by flabdablet at 8:47 PM on February 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm an old university networking administrator with giant diesel powered generators buried underground and Power Distribution Units and plugs that have different colors for grid power vs always-power. N-thing electrician for a full house thing.
The simple is the little gas powered generators that you can plug a fridge, an electric heater, and maybe a powerstrip fof some lights into run over a couple of extension cords running through the window to keep yourself alive.
The whole house thing is a different thing you should not try alone. Electricity doesn't work that way.
Being brutalist..... Power goes out so you go and turn off the master breaker to keep your electricity from flowing back into the grid. Then you turn off all of the breakers in the box except the high current on that leads to your generator. Crank up the generator. Turn on the kitchen, then the furnace, then the hot water, and go around and turn everything in the house off.
But you see how complicated that can be? Call an electrician to figure out how big your generator needs to be and add the circuitry/switching stuff to do things automatically. Or at least get it to the "pull lever for backup" level.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:50 PM on February 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
The simple is the little gas powered generators that you can plug a fridge, an electric heater, and maybe a powerstrip fof some lights into run over a couple of extension cords running through the window to keep yourself alive.
The whole house thing is a different thing you should not try alone. Electricity doesn't work that way.
Being brutalist..... Power goes out so you go and turn off the master breaker to keep your electricity from flowing back into the grid. Then you turn off all of the breakers in the box except the high current on that leads to your generator. Crank up the generator. Turn on the kitchen, then the furnace, then the hot water, and go around and turn everything in the house off.
But you see how complicated that can be? Call an electrician to figure out how big your generator needs to be and add the circuitry/switching stuff to do things automatically. Or at least get it to the "pull lever for backup" level.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:50 PM on February 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah. We have solar panels, but seemingly not a system that is very compatible with battery storage. So have been thinking about this as well. Seeing the ads where people are powering their house from their truck. How does that work? Electricians.
Enjoying the responses. Hope I ill find some useful information.
posted by Windopaene at 9:24 PM on February 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Enjoying the responses. Hope I ill find some useful information.
posted by Windopaene at 9:24 PM on February 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
If you install a solar system with battery backup, you will get a tax credit of ~30%, your electricity bills will be reduced permanently (you have expensive electricity there), and you will have silent power when the grid is down. Assuming you have natural gas powered furnace and water heater, you can get away with very little battery capacity because neither of those draw significant power. I ran my water heater off a small car battery and an inverter for a day, once.
Example company which does solar installations.
Fossil fuel generators also have to be maintained and used regularly to stay operating. It's expensive.
posted by flimflam at 9:55 PM on February 21, 2022
Example company which does solar installations.
Fossil fuel generators also have to be maintained and used regularly to stay operating. It's expensive.
posted by flimflam at 9:55 PM on February 21, 2022
Please keep in mind that "emergency generators" are completely different from "standby generators".
Emergency generators are generally smaller, and not expected to run more than a day or two, usually only hours. It'll keep the essentials going, but not meant for any more than that. Running it long-term will hurt it.
Standby generators are much bigger, more robust, cost a lot more, but also come with larger fuel tanks and can run for days at a time, and can feed more of the house.
They obviously had to be outside, and probably well away from the house to prevent the fumes from coming back in. They can be fed by variety of fuel sources, but usually are designed just for one type, from propane to LNG to gasoline to diesel.
And these, obviously can coexist with an existing solar installation and a home battery setup to store the excess energy to be used in emergencies or just decrease your electric bill.
It's not a plug-n-play thing. You need to talk with contractors and/or electricians who understand things like this, about budget, maintenance, fuel delivery, any necessary upgrades to your circuits, and so on.
posted by kschang at 2:28 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Emergency generators are generally smaller, and not expected to run more than a day or two, usually only hours. It'll keep the essentials going, but not meant for any more than that. Running it long-term will hurt it.
Standby generators are much bigger, more robust, cost a lot more, but also come with larger fuel tanks and can run for days at a time, and can feed more of the house.
They obviously had to be outside, and probably well away from the house to prevent the fumes from coming back in. They can be fed by variety of fuel sources, but usually are designed just for one type, from propane to LNG to gasoline to diesel.
And these, obviously can coexist with an existing solar installation and a home battery setup to store the excess energy to be used in emergencies or just decrease your electric bill.
It's not a plug-n-play thing. You need to talk with contractors and/or electricians who understand things like this, about budget, maintenance, fuel delivery, any necessary upgrades to your circuits, and so on.
posted by kschang at 2:28 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Solar is going to be next to useless during the key parts of an outage caused by upstate NY snowstorms because the panels will be under several inches of snow.
Enough batteries to run a house in the winter (especially if it's electric heat) for more than a moment will be very expensive and bulky for the purpose and many types of batteries (particularly the affordable ones) do need maintenance and can become dangerous.
The easiest thing to do is what your parents have - a generator that you have set up outside and is portable in that it's not permanently installed. Ideally it's in an outbuilding so it's not exposed to the weather. It cannot be right next to your house due to CO2 poisoning. You can get ones that run on gas, propane, or both. I recommend the last. Propane is less efficient but way safer and easier to store and transport. But having the fallback to gas in an extended outage is good.
Good ones are not that noisy but you'll pay for that. You can get them sized from big enough to run a partial single circuit to your entire house. Again, you'll pay more for bigger capacity and they'll consume fuel a lot faster with size. My personal one will do a little under 50 amps at 110, lives in a shed, and has a buried line that runs to my cutover box. I can't run the whole house on it but it's enough that by rotating which circuits are powered up on the cutover box, I can keep everything critical going for quite a while without having to buy an expensive generator and storing a ton of fuel. In 7 years, I've never had to use it (knock on wood).
If you think this is going to be common (ask your neighbors and most power companies will give you a history of outages for your area), getting the permanently installed variety with enough power to run everything automatically like what Jessamyn talked about removes a lot of headaches. My friends in more rural areas than me often have them because their likelihood of a multiday outage is much higher.
As has been touched on above, never plug your generator into your house circuits without a cutover. The "double male" cables at a physical level will let you plug a generator into an outlet and have that circuit work but as per above you risk killing people working on the power grid and if you did cause a fire your insurance company would have grounds to deny your claim.
If you're not going to have a cutover professionally installed (which is relatively expensive), run heavy gauge extension cords in through a window. Make sure they're rated for the current and make sure they're not overheating.
posted by Candleman at 4:27 AM on February 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Enough batteries to run a house in the winter (especially if it's electric heat) for more than a moment will be very expensive and bulky for the purpose and many types of batteries (particularly the affordable ones) do need maintenance and can become dangerous.
The easiest thing to do is what your parents have - a generator that you have set up outside and is portable in that it's not permanently installed. Ideally it's in an outbuilding so it's not exposed to the weather. It cannot be right next to your house due to CO2 poisoning. You can get ones that run on gas, propane, or both. I recommend the last. Propane is less efficient but way safer and easier to store and transport. But having the fallback to gas in an extended outage is good.
Good ones are not that noisy but you'll pay for that. You can get them sized from big enough to run a partial single circuit to your entire house. Again, you'll pay more for bigger capacity and they'll consume fuel a lot faster with size. My personal one will do a little under 50 amps at 110, lives in a shed, and has a buried line that runs to my cutover box. I can't run the whole house on it but it's enough that by rotating which circuits are powered up on the cutover box, I can keep everything critical going for quite a while without having to buy an expensive generator and storing a ton of fuel. In 7 years, I've never had to use it (knock on wood).
If you think this is going to be common (ask your neighbors and most power companies will give you a history of outages for your area), getting the permanently installed variety with enough power to run everything automatically like what Jessamyn talked about removes a lot of headaches. My friends in more rural areas than me often have them because their likelihood of a multiday outage is much higher.
As has been touched on above, never plug your generator into your house circuits without a cutover. The "double male" cables at a physical level will let you plug a generator into an outlet and have that circuit work but as per above you risk killing people working on the power grid and if you did cause a fire your insurance company would have grounds to deny your claim.
If you're not going to have a cutover professionally installed (which is relatively expensive), run heavy gauge extension cords in through a window. Make sure they're rated for the current and make sure they're not overheating.
posted by Candleman at 4:27 AM on February 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Your maintenance issues will be easier with natural gas or LPG fuel.
Whole-house generators, "stand-by", are complex. Various components are added to prevent too many devices coming on demanding power, at the same instant. It's all good.
LPG/Natural gas are going to be at least a little quieter than gasoline engines. But, hey, it's life. Where I live, the power lines are very poorly maintained, so it's way too common to loose power. You can't go outside and enjoy the still quiet of a blackout, too many generators!
posted by Goofyy at 1:35 PM on February 22, 2022
Whole-house generators, "stand-by", are complex. Various components are added to prevent too many devices coming on demanding power, at the same instant. It's all good.
LPG/Natural gas are going to be at least a little quieter than gasoline engines. But, hey, it's life. Where I live, the power lines are very poorly maintained, so it's way too common to loose power. You can't go outside and enjoy the still quiet of a blackout, too many generators!
posted by Goofyy at 1:35 PM on February 22, 2022
I think they have to be outside, right? Or are the new ones now able to be inside, like in my basement?
Yes it definitely has to be outside. Running something like this indoors [even in a basement] can be deadly.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:21 PM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yes it definitely has to be outside. Running something like this indoors [even in a basement] can be deadly.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:21 PM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
We have a Generac whole house generator which SAVED OUR SANITY for the five days we were without power after Hurricane Ida. It is installed on the concrete pad behind the garage next to an AC unit. We had to have new gas lines run to it and pray that the natural gas lines were not shut down during the hurricane. Obviously your fuel source may vary but we have been very pleased with natural gas.
The demand for generators down here in Louisiana is insane since everyone apparently forgot how long the power goes out after a storm. This could affect supplies up north.
We have a maintenance contract with the firm that installed the generator and it runs a self test every Sunday. They service it once a year. Total cost was in the 5 figures but worth every penny.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 9:27 AM on February 23, 2022
The demand for generators down here in Louisiana is insane since everyone apparently forgot how long the power goes out after a storm. This could affect supplies up north.
We have a maintenance contract with the firm that installed the generator and it runs a self test every Sunday. They service it once a year. Total cost was in the 5 figures but worth every penny.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 9:27 AM on February 23, 2022
I've had a Generac 8K watt portable generator (peak power 10K watts) since 2015. I hired an electrician to install an 8-circuit transfer switch which covers the whole house. The generator is in a shed I built with a heavy duty exhaust fan and big air vents to insure the thing gets enough air and doesn't get too hot in the summer (which is when at least half of our power failures have happened).
I replaced that one with a 2021 Generac portable generator with the same power specifications. We used the last one at least once every three months, for an average of 18 hours each, over a six year period. What killed it was the 2021 ice storm that killed power for everyone for a week. So we ran it for about 23 hours/day, with a half hour down time to refill it with gas and give it a breather. When the power came back on, the generator wouldn't run without backfiring. The repairman said no generator, not even the standby generators, are designed to run for a week straight, and that overworking them like that warps pistons and cylinder walls and kills compression. But it had been a trooper for the entire six years previous and kept our lights and pellet stove running when the houses around us were cold and dark.
We ordered both of ours through Lowes. In June, after people were in the middle of clearing downed trees and unable to find generators anywhere, we were lucky enough to get ours from Lowes online for about $1K and they delivered it in a week. In another week, (because nobody could find an available electrician either), it was finally hooked up for another $500, and ready to go. Yes, gasoline is a pain. It also is not an auto start. But I matched it to the entire house (minus the heavy appliances like electric stove, heat pump, dryer) and it has lots of reserve. It runs the refrigerator, microwave, all of the lights, switches, outlets, freezer, minor appliances, etc. It is very simple, but if it works as well as the last one did, the inconveniences will be worth it. I test it once a month and run it for 15 minutes each time.
One other thing. It might be a good idea to create a wiring diagram for your rooms, lights, switches, etc. So, if there is ever a problem, you can look at a sheet and know the outlet behind the bed in the spare bedroom is connected to switch A3 on the transfer switch. Might save you some headaches later.
posted by CollectiveMind at 1:54 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I replaced that one with a 2021 Generac portable generator with the same power specifications. We used the last one at least once every three months, for an average of 18 hours each, over a six year period. What killed it was the 2021 ice storm that killed power for everyone for a week. So we ran it for about 23 hours/day, with a half hour down time to refill it with gas and give it a breather. When the power came back on, the generator wouldn't run without backfiring. The repairman said no generator, not even the standby generators, are designed to run for a week straight, and that overworking them like that warps pistons and cylinder walls and kills compression. But it had been a trooper for the entire six years previous and kept our lights and pellet stove running when the houses around us were cold and dark.
We ordered both of ours through Lowes. In June, after people were in the middle of clearing downed trees and unable to find generators anywhere, we were lucky enough to get ours from Lowes online for about $1K and they delivered it in a week. In another week, (because nobody could find an available electrician either), it was finally hooked up for another $500, and ready to go. Yes, gasoline is a pain. It also is not an auto start. But I matched it to the entire house (minus the heavy appliances like electric stove, heat pump, dryer) and it has lots of reserve. It runs the refrigerator, microwave, all of the lights, switches, outlets, freezer, minor appliances, etc. It is very simple, but if it works as well as the last one did, the inconveniences will be worth it. I test it once a month and run it for 15 minutes each time.
One other thing. It might be a good idea to create a wiring diagram for your rooms, lights, switches, etc. So, if there is ever a problem, you can look at a sheet and know the outlet behind the bed in the spare bedroom is connected to switch A3 on the transfer switch. Might save you some headaches later.
posted by CollectiveMind at 1:54 AM on February 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
The fuel tank size would usually indicate its intended life and purpose.
A Generac GP8000 has roughly an 8-gallon tank, which can last up to 11 hours at 50% load, and weighs 200 lbs so you can shift it around.
The most directly comparable Generac is the RD015, which is a 1 ton (1757 lbs) diesel generator outputting 15 KW with a 32 gallon tank with optional 95 gallon extended tank.
Completely different class of generators, as you can see. One's just a mobile / emergency generator, the other is a true stand-by generator.
posted by kschang at 12:04 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
A Generac GP8000 has roughly an 8-gallon tank, which can last up to 11 hours at 50% load, and weighs 200 lbs so you can shift it around.
The most directly comparable Generac is the RD015, which is a 1 ton (1757 lbs) diesel generator outputting 15 KW with a 32 gallon tank with optional 95 gallon extended tank.
Completely different class of generators, as you can see. One's just a mobile / emergency generator, the other is a true stand-by generator.
posted by kschang at 12:04 PM on February 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
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Second, there are different types of generators. In this case, I think of backup vs standby generators. Backup generators are the portable ones they sell at Lowes and Home Depot, and by the sound of it, are the kind your parents have. If you lose power, you go to the garage or whatever and lug it out, plug it in, pull the cord or hit the ignition and you should be back in business.
Standby generators are permanently installed outside, like an AC condenser. They are made to monitor the power and turn on automatically when the power fails. Obviously, more expensive, but that’s what I want to install at my house. I don’t want to worry about my wife, or a babysitter in the dark because they can’t or don’t know how to get the backup generator going.
You need the electrician to install the switch that allows the house to get power from the generator rather than the grid.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:39 PM on February 21, 2022 [9 favorites]