Please help me dress like a professional adult.
January 22, 2022 12:22 PM Subscribe
What's the best resource to teach me how to dress like a professional? Not Men's Wearhouse or Jos A Bank, please; I haven't had much success with them.
Austin, TX area and points north; maybe I should consult with an actual tailor? Does anybody do that anymore? Thanks in advance for your advice. :)
So hooray, I just got a big promotion at work, but the drawback is that I will now be meeting face to face with DOD customers and asking them to spend millions of dollars on IT. I don't think my wardrobe is up to snuff. Also I've put on some pandemic weight, so all of my Medium shirts are too small, but everything that's Large has too much neck hole.
I'm almost 50 years old, about 5'11", weigh about 215lbs, medium / average frame.
Austin / Round Rock area tailor? Is Brooks Brothers worth anything, or is that all marketing hooey?
So hooray, I just got a big promotion at work, but the drawback is that I will now be meeting face to face with DOD customers and asking them to spend millions of dollars on IT. I don't think my wardrobe is up to snuff. Also I've put on some pandemic weight, so all of my Medium shirts are too small, but everything that's Large has too much neck hole.
I'm almost 50 years old, about 5'11", weigh about 215lbs, medium / average frame.
Austin / Round Rock area tailor? Is Brooks Brothers worth anything, or is that all marketing hooey?
Department stores used to excel at this. Try Macy’s or better yet, Nordstrom. Have them help you buy one of each of what you need in the closest size (dress shirts traditionally have 3 numbered measurements), and they should be able to tailor it, too, if needed. From there, you can watch for sales or buy stuff even at like Marshall or TJ Maxx if you’re an off the rack size, or have them tailored at a local shop if you’re not. Brooks Brothers can do all this but it might be more upscale than necessary, especially if your size is still shifting or you haven’t quite settled on what works best for you. I might save it for a special occasion.
posted by vunder at 1:07 PM on January 22, 2022
posted by vunder at 1:07 PM on January 22, 2022
Fit is king. Whatever you buy must go to a tailor for alterations. A proper fit will not only be more comfortable but will make you look better, and is the single most important signifier that distinguishes a man who knows how to dress himself.
If you want introductory-to-advanced information, I highly recommend spending some time watching videos in the Gentleman’s Gazette YouTube channel. Just search for videos on topics relevant to your style of clothing. The channel covers everything from full formal to casual, but the range of businesswear from suits to jacket-and-slacks to “business casual” are very well covered, as well as advice on building a wardrobe.
posted by slkinsey at 1:20 PM on January 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you want introductory-to-advanced information, I highly recommend spending some time watching videos in the Gentleman’s Gazette YouTube channel. Just search for videos on topics relevant to your style of clothing. The channel covers everything from full formal to casual, but the range of businesswear from suits to jacket-and-slacks to “business casual” are very well covered, as well as advice on building a wardrobe.
posted by slkinsey at 1:20 PM on January 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Bespoke seems high-end for the kind of sales environment you describe, even at that level. Agreed with folks above that tailored off the rack sounds about right. This sounds to me like it could be a Nordstrom-level situation, in general, but if I were you, I might also consider Brooks Brothers if I wanted to move up from where you are right now.
Another thought: do you have a counterpart at your firm with whom you can comfortably discuss this? Or, a mentor one or two rungs up the ladder who can advise? Sometimes there are benefits to leaning in to the "company look," whatever that may be.
And congratulations. :-)
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:33 PM on January 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Another thought: do you have a counterpart at your firm with whom you can comfortably discuss this? Or, a mentor one or two rungs up the ladder who can advise? Sometimes there are benefits to leaning in to the "company look," whatever that may be.
And congratulations. :-)
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:33 PM on January 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Another vote for tailored off the rack, but to also get your basics from department store-and-upwards, because the cheaper side of things does horrendous things with the bias of the cloth and seam allowance anyway that tailoring to fit is just throwing money after bad. This is more dire with women's/feminine fashion but i assume something similar might happen with suiting apparel.
posted by cendawanita at 1:41 PM on January 22, 2022
posted by cendawanita at 1:41 PM on January 22, 2022
A family member was in a similar situation, and they hired a stylist.
That person helped them select good things, procured them, helped take measurements and handled getting the adjustments done.
It wasn't particularly cheap, nor were the clothes, but they looked sharp and felt good about themselves. They tapered off the service as they built up a wardrobe and learned what they liked and how to find/tailor it.
It sounds like you're in the range that the couple grand could be a worthwhile investment.
posted by jellywerker at 1:48 PM on January 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
That person helped them select good things, procured them, helped take measurements and handled getting the adjustments done.
It wasn't particularly cheap, nor were the clothes, but they looked sharp and felt good about themselves. They tapered off the service as they built up a wardrobe and learned what they liked and how to find/tailor it.
It sounds like you're in the range that the couple grand could be a worthwhile investment.
posted by jellywerker at 1:48 PM on January 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
There is an Indochino at the Domain if you are interested in something more bespoke. Have friends that have had custom suits made there that they were happy with for the price point.
posted by honeybee413 at 1:52 PM on January 22, 2022
posted by honeybee413 at 1:52 PM on January 22, 2022
I just asked and it was "Trunk Club" through Nordstrom. They highly recommend the service.
posted by jellywerker at 1:55 PM on January 22, 2022
posted by jellywerker at 1:55 PM on January 22, 2022
A few online retailers to check out for suiting:
Black Lapel. Pretty good affordability/quality ratio. I bought a tux here awhile back. You send them some photos of yourself and they do their best to 'tailor' based on that. I had to get the jacket tailored but otherwise they did a good job.
Proper Cloth. Super customizable sizes. If you can get your measurements from a tailor (or try yourself) you can order a suit accordingly. Also has a good range of dressiness from casual to formal.
Suit Supply and Indochino have similar customizability but I'm less familiar overall. I get the impression they are a bit more fast fasion.
posted by TurnKey at 1:57 PM on January 22, 2022
Black Lapel. Pretty good affordability/quality ratio. I bought a tux here awhile back. You send them some photos of yourself and they do their best to 'tailor' based on that. I had to get the jacket tailored but otherwise they did a good job.
Proper Cloth. Super customizable sizes. If you can get your measurements from a tailor (or try yourself) you can order a suit accordingly. Also has a good range of dressiness from casual to formal.
Suit Supply and Indochino have similar customizability but I'm less familiar overall. I get the impression they are a bit more fast fasion.
posted by TurnKey at 1:57 PM on January 22, 2022
If this were me, I would go both to Nordstrom and to Brookie's. But before I did that, I'd figure out the bare minimum purchases. If you haven't worn a lot of suits or Serious Business clothes, you're probably going to develop at least some opinions about them as you go, so you don't want to overinvest up front.
How many suits do you need? How many besuited meetings per week do you expect to take? Are you going to be wearing suits every day? If you need to dress up every day but don't need a suit per se, a couple of sportcoats and some dress trousers or even serious chinos are going to be more useful than many many expensive suits.
You probably want two suits, a dark blue and a medium grey, both in very boring wool fabrics but not gabardine because it goes shiny. You want white and light blue dress shirts. You want maybe three silk ties in boring rep stripes or conservative patterns. You want some over the calf dress socks and conservative black oxfords, possibly from Allen Edmonds. This seems like the starter conservative business wardrobe.
After that, you can look for summer suits, variations on color, variations on fabric, etc....if you discover that you like wearing suits.
If not, and you don't need to wear a suit more than twice a week, buy a couple of sportcoats, some slightly more casual dress shirts and some odd trousers or dressy chinos - meaning, sportcoats in not-suit fabric - tweed or a wool with a visible texture, for instance. Consider whether you will be wearing a tie every day. If not, more casual sportcoats and button down collar shirts will be sufficient. The colorways of sportcoats tend to be Not Black, Not Dark Grey and Not Dark Navy (unless the fabric is super interesting). So, like, a light grey tweed plus a button down plus a pair of trousers that harmonize - maybe a brown. A good salesperson will be able to help you with this. You'll want the same over the calf socks but a pair of loafers in a medium or dark brown.
Put This On's wardrobe starter post is great and if you read to the middle it tells you a bit about suits and links to some very useful suit starter posts.
In general, you'll want the minimum of conservative, well-fitting suits that will offend nobody and after you've worn those for a while, you can add more until your wardrobe is filled out a bit. No one will notice or care if you wear a conservative suit twice in one week - wear a white shirt and a blue tie one day and a blue shirt and a grey tie the next.
posted by Frowner at 2:08 PM on January 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
How many suits do you need? How many besuited meetings per week do you expect to take? Are you going to be wearing suits every day? If you need to dress up every day but don't need a suit per se, a couple of sportcoats and some dress trousers or even serious chinos are going to be more useful than many many expensive suits.
You probably want two suits, a dark blue and a medium grey, both in very boring wool fabrics but not gabardine because it goes shiny. You want white and light blue dress shirts. You want maybe three silk ties in boring rep stripes or conservative patterns. You want some over the calf dress socks and conservative black oxfords, possibly from Allen Edmonds. This seems like the starter conservative business wardrobe.
After that, you can look for summer suits, variations on color, variations on fabric, etc....if you discover that you like wearing suits.
If not, and you don't need to wear a suit more than twice a week, buy a couple of sportcoats, some slightly more casual dress shirts and some odd trousers or dressy chinos - meaning, sportcoats in not-suit fabric - tweed or a wool with a visible texture, for instance. Consider whether you will be wearing a tie every day. If not, more casual sportcoats and button down collar shirts will be sufficient. The colorways of sportcoats tend to be Not Black, Not Dark Grey and Not Dark Navy (unless the fabric is super interesting). So, like, a light grey tweed plus a button down plus a pair of trousers that harmonize - maybe a brown. A good salesperson will be able to help you with this. You'll want the same over the calf socks but a pair of loafers in a medium or dark brown.
Put This On's wardrobe starter post is great and if you read to the middle it tells you a bit about suits and links to some very useful suit starter posts.
In general, you'll want the minimum of conservative, well-fitting suits that will offend nobody and after you've worn those for a while, you can add more until your wardrobe is filled out a bit. No one will notice or care if you wear a conservative suit twice in one week - wear a white shirt and a blue tie one day and a blue shirt and a grey tie the next.
posted by Frowner at 2:08 PM on January 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
A further thought: I personally would not go with bespoke, Indochino etc at this point. You'll be much happier dropping that kind of money in six months or a year when you can buy something you are absolutely sure you'll like and wear. No one wants to spend a ton of money on a suit only to discover that they feel weird wearing it or that it's too conservative for casual meetings and not conservative enough for big meetings.
posted by Frowner at 2:10 PM on January 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 2:10 PM on January 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: These are all great answers, thank you for your thoughtful replies.
joycehealy I'm a cis male, thanks for asking me to clarify. :)
I haven't set a budget per se, but I'm prepared to spend a couple of thousand dollars over the next 12 months to build a suitable wardrobe.
My experience at Men's Wearhouse and Jos A Bank has been that the retail staff isn't well trained in suiting a style / color palette to my particular use case. Being pretty much incompetent myself, I'm seeking competence. It seems that Brooks Brothers is a consensus step up from those, so I'll be looking into that for sure. I also appreciate the idea of Trunk Club.
Re: three-piece vs business casual, I don't know what I don't know, I'll definitely be asking my new colleagues for guidance.
posted by ZakDaddy at 3:30 PM on January 22, 2022
joycehealy I'm a cis male, thanks for asking me to clarify. :)
I haven't set a budget per se, but I'm prepared to spend a couple of thousand dollars over the next 12 months to build a suitable wardrobe.
My experience at Men's Wearhouse and Jos A Bank has been that the retail staff isn't well trained in suiting a style / color palette to my particular use case. Being pretty much incompetent myself, I'm seeking competence. It seems that Brooks Brothers is a consensus step up from those, so I'll be looking into that for sure. I also appreciate the idea of Trunk Club.
Re: three-piece vs business casual, I don't know what I don't know, I'll definitely be asking my new colleagues for guidance.
posted by ZakDaddy at 3:30 PM on January 22, 2022
Men's Wearhouse and Jos. A Bank are in a separate category from Brooks Brothers. These are places where you will largely buy something that's kinda right for you, off a rack of things that are available. Brooks Brothers goes from nice to very-nice, typically tailored to meet your specific body.
But there's a middle ground to consider: The best dressed guy I ever worked with bought his suits from Men's Wearhouse, and then took them immediately to a tailor who then worked their magic. Ended up with something reasonably inexpensive but with impeccable fit. Don't overlook the option to get something almost right from somewhere, and have a professional make it better and personalize it for your body.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:49 PM on January 22, 2022
But there's a middle ground to consider: The best dressed guy I ever worked with bought his suits from Men's Wearhouse, and then took them immediately to a tailor who then worked their magic. Ended up with something reasonably inexpensive but with impeccable fit. Don't overlook the option to get something almost right from somewhere, and have a professional make it better and personalize it for your body.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:49 PM on January 22, 2022
Echoing others - Brooks Brothers and a stylist with whom you make an appointment in the men’s section of Nordstrom are the best places to start. Given your industry, it sounds like you’re looking for a boxy suit cut rather than a European-style slim cut. Brooks Brothers absolutely makes sense for an initial suit. It’s often worthwhile to buy two pairs of pants with the one jacket, especially since you live in a warm climate. Bring the shoes and belt you would wear with the suit.
For shirts, getting a cheaper shirt tailored will look better than an expensive one off the rack. Brooks Brothers shirts are fine, as are many department store options including Macy’s. Bring the suit and the shirts to the tailor you select for all the tweaks.
You might also swing by Bonobos to check out more casual options on the higher quality side.
Finally, shirt stays are the secret to achieving that military trim look.
posted by Last_wave_by at 6:22 PM on January 22, 2022
For shirts, getting a cheaper shirt tailored will look better than an expensive one off the rack. Brooks Brothers shirts are fine, as are many department store options including Macy’s. Bring the suit and the shirts to the tailor you select for all the tweaks.
You might also swing by Bonobos to check out more casual options on the higher quality side.
Finally, shirt stays are the secret to achieving that military trim look.
posted by Last_wave_by at 6:22 PM on January 22, 2022
I was always too tall and skinny for Brooks Brothers but it doesn't sound like that should be a problem for you. But honestly it sounds less like you need styling advice and more that you aren't aware there's a uniform for the work you're doing. What you want first is a navy blue two-piece suit in worsted wool, single breasted, with flat-front trousers, in the correct size. You can get that at any of the places mentioned, even Men's Wearhouse or Jos. A. Bank. A navy blue two-piece suit disappears. This is not a fashion item, it's a uniform, and you can buy the matching uniform almost anywhere. Start with plain white* shirts with point or spread collars (button down collars are casual, and not to be worn with ties) and don't let anybody talk you into contrasting cuffs.
When you want to move beyond the navy blue two piece, that's when you might want some more fashion advice. It used to be that men didn't wear black suits (black was for undertakers) and your own industry may or may not still adhere to that rule. Charcoal grey was the standard second suit when I was being taught such things, but you could do worse than just buying a few different navy suits (say one with a chalk pinstripe, one with more texture to the fabric). Just figure out what color ties you can get away with; there may also be unspoken rules about that in a DOD sort of place. As you attend meetings, start keeping notes on what the people who outrank you are wearing, and mimic what they do for best results.
* A friend had a story about an exec where she worked years ago who was asked why he always wore a suit, even on casual Friday. His reply: "I'm wearing a blue shirt."
posted by fedward at 7:15 PM on January 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
When you want to move beyond the navy blue two piece, that's when you might want some more fashion advice. It used to be that men didn't wear black suits (black was for undertakers) and your own industry may or may not still adhere to that rule. Charcoal grey was the standard second suit when I was being taught such things, but you could do worse than just buying a few different navy suits (say one with a chalk pinstripe, one with more texture to the fabric). Just figure out what color ties you can get away with; there may also be unspoken rules about that in a DOD sort of place. As you attend meetings, start keeping notes on what the people who outrank you are wearing, and mimic what they do for best results.
* A friend had a story about an exec where she worked years ago who was asked why he always wore a suit, even on casual Friday. His reply: "I'm wearing a blue shirt."
posted by fedward at 7:15 PM on January 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Very strongly seconding the recommendation to hire a stylist, especially since you say you're willing to budget a couple thousand $ for a wardrobe overhaul. They are so great to work with, and you'll come out of it with pieces that work well together. Let them worry about which brands and styles will work well with your body type! You said you are seeking competence, so for example: when people say you need "a good fit" do you know what that means for you? Colours, styles, fabrics that would work with your lifestyle? A good stylist will know this, and will teach you what to look for in the future.
The store staff are most concerned about making a sale. A stylist that you hire will make sure that you are happy and will recommend their services to friends and family. For people who are kinda clueless about fashion (like myself) it's so worth it. I tried this method of shopping on a whim a few yrs ago, and since then, my partner and also a couple friend of ours are now sold on stylists!
posted by tinydancer at 7:58 PM on January 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
The store staff are most concerned about making a sale. A stylist that you hire will make sure that you are happy and will recommend their services to friends and family. For people who are kinda clueless about fashion (like myself) it's so worth it. I tried this method of shopping on a whim a few yrs ago, and since then, my partner and also a couple friend of ours are now sold on stylists!
posted by tinydancer at 7:58 PM on January 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
All of the advice up thread about getting a stylist and about using a tailor to get a good fit is great; nothing to add. I used to be in consulting, now in a government job where I'm on the buy side of the table for IT. I would suggest that part of your equation here is matching your customers. When I was consulting, I had a range of wardrobe and tried to match the client culture, maybe one notch up from what they were wearing. This meant sometimes a suit, sometimes just a jacket and tie, sometimes no tie. Think of it as corporate camouflage.
I don't know what your DoD clients might be wearing, but in the other government circles Jos A Bank is a solid middle of the road choice for where men in leadership positions buy their clothes. If your customers are in government, they probably make less than you do. I can also tell you that the government world has become more casual in the last 20 years (with pockets of people still wearing suits and ties every day). The pandemic has really accelerated that move towards casual because of perpetual work-from-home and people gaining/losing enough weight that pre-pandemic clothes don't fit anymore.
posted by BlueTongueLizard at 7:29 AM on January 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't know what your DoD clients might be wearing, but in the other government circles Jos A Bank is a solid middle of the road choice for where men in leadership positions buy their clothes. If your customers are in government, they probably make less than you do. I can also tell you that the government world has become more casual in the last 20 years (with pockets of people still wearing suits and ties every day). The pandemic has really accelerated that move towards casual because of perpetual work-from-home and people gaining/losing enough weight that pre-pandemic clothes don't fit anymore.
posted by BlueTongueLizard at 7:29 AM on January 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
(Brooks Brothers is a nice intermediate step between straight tailor made clothes and Men's Wearhouse; they measured my masculine of center wife without blinking and made some nice recommendations, but they are not cheap. Great quality, though.)
posted by joycehealy at 12:29 PM on January 22, 2022