Does it exist? Not Fantasy Football, but all the same gaming dynamics
December 27, 2021 10:55 PM Subscribe
There are lots of good things about fantasy football...
- a group activity that is Covid safe
- low cost (gambling)
- scratches an analytic itch for problem solving
- the interface to 'play' is heavily enabled and subsidized by the current industry
Some bad things...
- It's sports gambling
- The NFL and their coalition of partners are problematic for multiple reasons from player safety to, well there are a LOT of reasons
- The variance is a blessing and a curse. There's enough so it activates some of the 'loot box' Pavlovian response, but there's almost a little too much and it feels like a farce some times.
Context: I inherited a dynasty (multiple year) team from a good friend and started playing with a group of people I largely don't know. It's pretty fun.
What I'm really after: the rules for this particular league are rich enough so that it's an intriguing analytic exercise:
- Fantasy Football in general is a casual form of value assessment with payoff for success/luck
- The 'dynasty' aspect means that there's a time-value aspect to win now vs win later
- This league starts each new year with an auction of outstanding players. This is really a big part of the draw for me. Instead of a random seeding of who picks when, there's a fixed budget and escalating contracts so along with planning your squad across years, there's an intricate valuation event that kicks off each year with a live auction with pressure cooker results
- Sure, the NFL is toxic, but it is watchable and moreso, for a competitive activity, it has a lot of interesting layered stochastic processes
...player talent
...player situation
...player contract situation (esp for multi year considerations)
...synergy/conflict within a team in terms of schemes that support or players that compete for usage
There's a lot going on and that makes the gambling fun, and this is supercharged by a thoughtful league structure.
- I mentioned the interface and how FF is very turn key for people who want to do it. There's another aspect: the commentariat that has evolved around it. Reddit's FF pages routinely have locally sourced or 'professional' pundits offering advice, solicitation or 'you vote' content to inform your own valuations
I don't expect any one thing to be able to duplicate this phenomena. This is clearly the product of the biggest American sport partnering with a huge gambling interest and then thousands of 'villages' to create something that is really engaging.
BUT, what if I wanted to engage a similar sized group of friends in something that was:
(1) continuous...part of the allure of FF is that it's basically year round
(2) stochastic...it's not a closed game, almost anything can happen
(3) deep...there's lots of external and intrinsic strategic consideration
(4) Not fantasy football
Does something close to this exist?
*I do some other gaming and I know this is a golden age for board games and online MMPO games and, and all kinds of games...Part of this is to find something that has the right amount of management/spectator, so it's not a droll resource optimization problem like some games I've done recently [cough, Indonesia, cough]
Some bad things...
- It's sports gambling
- The NFL and their coalition of partners are problematic for multiple reasons from player safety to, well there are a LOT of reasons
- The variance is a blessing and a curse. There's enough so it activates some of the 'loot box' Pavlovian response, but there's almost a little too much and it feels like a farce some times.
Context: I inherited a dynasty (multiple year) team from a good friend and started playing with a group of people I largely don't know. It's pretty fun.
What I'm really after: the rules for this particular league are rich enough so that it's an intriguing analytic exercise:
- Fantasy Football in general is a casual form of value assessment with payoff for success/luck
- The 'dynasty' aspect means that there's a time-value aspect to win now vs win later
- This league starts each new year with an auction of outstanding players. This is really a big part of the draw for me. Instead of a random seeding of who picks when, there's a fixed budget and escalating contracts so along with planning your squad across years, there's an intricate valuation event that kicks off each year with a live auction with pressure cooker results
- Sure, the NFL is toxic, but it is watchable and moreso, for a competitive activity, it has a lot of interesting layered stochastic processes
...player talent
...player situation
...player contract situation (esp for multi year considerations)
...synergy/conflict within a team in terms of schemes that support or players that compete for usage
There's a lot going on and that makes the gambling fun, and this is supercharged by a thoughtful league structure.
- I mentioned the interface and how FF is very turn key for people who want to do it. There's another aspect: the commentariat that has evolved around it. Reddit's FF pages routinely have locally sourced or 'professional' pundits offering advice, solicitation or 'you vote' content to inform your own valuations
I don't expect any one thing to be able to duplicate this phenomena. This is clearly the product of the biggest American sport partnering with a huge gambling interest and then thousands of 'villages' to create something that is really engaging.
BUT, what if I wanted to engage a similar sized group of friends in something that was:
(1) continuous...part of the allure of FF is that it's basically year round
(2) stochastic...it's not a closed game, almost anything can happen
(3) deep...there's lots of external and intrinsic strategic consideration
(4) Not fantasy football
Does something close to this exist?
*I do some other gaming and I know this is a golden age for board games and online MMPO games and, and all kinds of games...Part of this is to find something that has the right amount of management/spectator, so it's not a droll resource optimization problem like some games I've done recently [cough, Indonesia, cough]
One can always play the stock market with a trading simulator. You'd be subject to the real market conditions, and your trades will determine your portfolio's worth at the end of the day.
posted by kschang at 3:16 AM on December 28, 2021
posted by kschang at 3:16 AM on December 28, 2021
Response by poster: baseball
I thought about this and will consider it. I'm not averse to a different fantasy sports league, but I guess I was looking for a more...esoteric? answer.
stock market
Another previous consideration. I think there's something here and I've considered how to do it for larger components of the economy. One of the hooks for FF is that while pro football is complex, you can sit there and think, "I know more about this than the next guy right here...". Maybe my intuition is wrong here but stock prices seem a bit more inscrutable, even more random, not less, over similar time periods.
Does anyone have experience doing something like this with stocks?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 4:38 AM on December 28, 2021
I thought about this and will consider it. I'm not averse to a different fantasy sports league, but I guess I was looking for a more...esoteric? answer.
stock market
Another previous consideration. I think there's something here and I've considered how to do it for larger components of the economy. One of the hooks for FF is that while pro football is complex, you can sit there and think, "I know more about this than the next guy right here...". Maybe my intuition is wrong here but stock prices seem a bit more inscrutable, even more random, not less, over similar time periods.
Does anyone have experience doing something like this with stocks?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 4:38 AM on December 28, 2021
Surely someone, somewhere has written software for stock portfolio competition. It's a common thing in HS and college business classes.
You can do a similar thing with prediction markets where you can place bets on on-going things like elections and on one-time events like rocket launches. Have a process for picking a small number of possible bets and place your $1 bets for real or not.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:29 AM on December 28, 2021
You can do a similar thing with prediction markets where you can place bets on on-going things like elections and on one-time events like rocket launches. Have a process for picking a small number of possible bets and place your $1 bets for real or not.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:29 AM on December 28, 2021
I feel like I've heard of fantasy-sports-izations of all sorts of systems:
- Oscar Race
- Congress (bill sponsorship, bills passing...okay, maybe just the House for that)
etc.
posted by HeroZero at 6:22 AM on December 28, 2021
- Oscar Race
- Congress (bill sponsorship, bills passing...okay, maybe just the House for that)
etc.
posted by HeroZero at 6:22 AM on December 28, 2021
fantasy sports in other genres, including (true) football in the english premier league?
fantasy.premierleague.com
posted by appleses at 7:09 AM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
fantasy.premierleague.com
posted by appleses at 7:09 AM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Fantasy horse racing might be an option (if you stick with sports) as races run all year long and run all over the world. In addition to a regular stable, you can also pick up horses for certain runs (think Triple Crown, which involves new horses every year as the races are age-restricted). There is lots and lots of data to analyze with horse racing, while at the same time, it's a sport that is open to all sorts of outcomes (as there are more than two horses in each race), so in a lot of ways, anything can happen.
posted by sardonyx at 8:02 AM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 8:02 AM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
I used to run a fantasy movie league (you're a "studio head" with a fixed budget and "bought" movies for the upcoming movie season) but with covid and streaming services and all that I'm not sure how it would even work anymore. I loved it since I'm not into sports much but am into movies.
The math was pretty simple since it was based on screens showing, per screen average, total weekly $$ and, I think towards the end, Metacritic or Imdb rating? Anyway it was possible to do well with a film that had a high rating and a great per screen average while some tent pole would sink your opponent because it did not.
posted by fiercekitten at 9:00 AM on December 28, 2021
The math was pretty simple since it was based on screens showing, per screen average, total weekly $$ and, I think towards the end, Metacritic or Imdb rating? Anyway it was possible to do well with a film that had a high rating and a great per screen average while some tent pole would sink your opponent because it did not.
posted by fiercekitten at 9:00 AM on December 28, 2021
Out of the park Baseball is a rabbit hole of statistics and depth that some people never come back from. There are online leagues but just playing solo against the AI is also satisfying. The rules are also very configurable, allowing to do things like set up MLB as a relegation system a la English soccer, then start at the bottom level and try to win your way to the majors. That was a COVID lockdown time killer for me last year...
Also bonus, the 2022 game is on sale for $5 since 2023 will be out in March or April.
posted by COD at 10:16 AM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also bonus, the 2022 game is on sale for $5 since 2023 will be out in March or April.
posted by COD at 10:16 AM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Re: software for stock market competition see howthemarketworks.com.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:02 PM on December 28, 2021
posted by SemiSalt at 5:02 PM on December 28, 2021
There's fantasy pro wrestling, if you want a layer of meta
posted by Jacen at 2:14 AM on December 29, 2021
posted by Jacen at 2:14 AM on December 29, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by michaelh at 12:24 AM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]