Advanced Cat Introduction Strategies
December 19, 2021 7:26 AM
They will never be friends. Fine. I just need them both to survive. I’ve read and watched everything on introducing cats. I’ll keep them separated for the rest of their lives before getting rid of one. What’s the ridiculous thing I can try to avoid that?
Two and a half years ago ya’ll roasted me for maintaining but not loving my porch cat. Jokes on me, that sweet thing lives in my house now and wants nothing but cuddles.
My 14 yr old fixed tabby girl tolerated her big sister (not related) for 12 years until the older cat passed. One year ago, I brought in the porch cat who is a fixed girl, maybe about 5. Porch cat is twice my tiny (healthy, agile) tabby’s size. It was convenient to have them live separately for a long time. It isn’t now. We moved in August and after two big fights (injuries to cats and humans, both instigated by my Houdini-like tiny old tabby), we aren’t comfortable switching the cats out of one base camp - we need more closed doors between them.
We have a 3 story house. Porch cat spends nights in the basement, tabby spends days in the guest room, each gets 12-14 hours with us.
Following Jackson Galaxy’s guidance, we swap items between them and they each leave scent all over the common area. They eat on either side of the basement door. We’ve moved to putting a screen between them for meals and it’s all hissing and gutteral growls.
We have feliway. They share blankets and toys and carpets, just not at the same time. We are four months into this process and it requires two adults present for every meal. It is a hassle, but worth it to keep both.
We tried Prozac for the aggressor. Nothing changed.
What’s the ridiculous next step? Who can I write to for guidance? What kind of structure can I build? Do you have a pet psychic to recommend?
Two and a half years ago ya’ll roasted me for maintaining but not loving my porch cat. Jokes on me, that sweet thing lives in my house now and wants nothing but cuddles.
My 14 yr old fixed tabby girl tolerated her big sister (not related) for 12 years until the older cat passed. One year ago, I brought in the porch cat who is a fixed girl, maybe about 5. Porch cat is twice my tiny (healthy, agile) tabby’s size. It was convenient to have them live separately for a long time. It isn’t now. We moved in August and after two big fights (injuries to cats and humans, both instigated by my Houdini-like tiny old tabby), we aren’t comfortable switching the cats out of one base camp - we need more closed doors between them.
We have a 3 story house. Porch cat spends nights in the basement, tabby spends days in the guest room, each gets 12-14 hours with us.
Following Jackson Galaxy’s guidance, we swap items between them and they each leave scent all over the common area. They eat on either side of the basement door. We’ve moved to putting a screen between them for meals and it’s all hissing and gutteral growls.
We have feliway. They share blankets and toys and carpets, just not at the same time. We are four months into this process and it requires two adults present for every meal. It is a hassle, but worth it to keep both.
We tried Prozac for the aggressor. Nothing changed.
What’s the ridiculous next step? Who can I write to for guidance? What kind of structure can I build? Do you have a pet psychic to recommend?
I had reasonable success from helping my tabby-equivalent with dominance signalling, like letting her have a treat first in front of the"porch" cat, who didn't seem to care anyway. She also had a special high perch we'd remove the other from, and secret spaces with two exits that he couldn't/wouldn't access because of the size disparity, and sometimes when someone could actively supervise we'd have him in a tent (the human camping kind) in the common space while she roamed free. Basically we blatantly favored and spoiled her, in as un-cruel of a way possible towards the other cat, and generally helped her pretend she was the ruler of our tiny kingdom. If the other one had seemed put out this it obviously wouldn't have been a viable option, but I think he was just so intrinsically confident that as long as he still got his treats and snuggles he didn't care if the little old one wanted to posture.
posted by teremala at 7:57 AM on December 19, 2021
posted by teremala at 7:57 AM on December 19, 2021
Might be on the little unconventional side as I've never seen a so-called expert suggest this, but the downsides are really minimal given the circumstances, just a couple of fatter cats... but have you tried free feeding them? In my limited experience with a couple of rescues, removing all sources of food insecurity completely helped them chill out. It took a few weeks, but once they learned that they really didn't need to worry about food (and not just hope their humans remembered to feed them next meal time) and that it was always there when they wanted it, it was just one less thing to stress everyone out about. Neither cat has to worry about the other stealing their food, or that if they dont eat it right this second it might not be here next time, or that they needed to be on high alert for anything worth stealing.
Good luck, and thanks for doing this for the kittehs... they're both lucky to have you!
posted by cgg at 8:04 AM on December 19, 2021
Good luck, and thanks for doing this for the kittehs... they're both lucky to have you!
posted by cgg at 8:04 AM on December 19, 2021
September a year ago we brought in a third cat (Kruimel, f, neutered, 1y) to our two cats (Wodan, m, and Wiep, f, neutered, no relation, both ~8 years old and with us for about 7 at the time). They're all rescues, but Kruimel had been living outside for most if not all of her life; not used to interaction with humans, and displaying the typical 'eat all there is' behaviour. The other two were partly (Wodan) and fully (Wiep) socialised when we took them in and get along OK although Wiep can be a bit cranky at times.
After a few weeks of just letting things play out, adding Feliway and chill pills as we saw fit and hearing and seeing the occasional clash, we fitted two doors to a workshop/storage plus a door to a warmer room behind that with chip-reading cat flaps, programmed to let only Kruimel through. She has her own litterbox there, and a kibble dispenser; she gets wet food in a common area but about 2m apart and not in direct view of the others. This significantly reduced the number of skirmishes, although at some point Wodan forgot he was neutered and Kruimel got a few #felinemetoo moments. This ended when Kruimel caused Wodan to have to stay at the vet for a week, and on returning Wodan almost totally stopped bothering Kruimel. Of course that bit is impossible to predict and shouldn't be part of a coexistence plan, but the 'give them their own private area, plus a common one to enter and leave as they see fit' seems to have worked OK. In our case there's just one such private area; you may need two.
Parallel with this Kruimel has slowly gotten more used to actual interaction with humans, and she has come off her food insecurity eating behaviour (although she's still slightly chubby).
posted by Stoneshop at 9:12 AM on December 19, 2021
After a few weeks of just letting things play out, adding Feliway and chill pills as we saw fit and hearing and seeing the occasional clash, we fitted two doors to a workshop/storage plus a door to a warmer room behind that with chip-reading cat flaps, programmed to let only Kruimel through. She has her own litterbox there, and a kibble dispenser; she gets wet food in a common area but about 2m apart and not in direct view of the others. This significantly reduced the number of skirmishes, although at some point Wodan forgot he was neutered and Kruimel got a few #felinemetoo moments. This ended when Kruimel caused Wodan to have to stay at the vet for a week, and on returning Wodan almost totally stopped bothering Kruimel. Of course that bit is impossible to predict and shouldn't be part of a coexistence plan, but the 'give them their own private area, plus a common one to enter and leave as they see fit' seems to have worked OK. In our case there's just one such private area; you may need two.
Parallel with this Kruimel has slowly gotten more used to actual interaction with humans, and she has come off her food insecurity eating behaviour (although she's still slightly chubby).
posted by Stoneshop at 9:12 AM on December 19, 2021
Sometimes the sticking point is having to share a litter box. The dominant cat comes to feel hugely threatened when she smells the other cat's waste where she does her business, and remembers that feeling of threat when she encounters the other cat. See if you can come up with a way to ensure that they don't have to share boxes.
And also try the free feeding routine mentioned above. If nobody is concerned that the other one might nip in and get their share of the kibble they might relax a lot more.
What worked with our seven or eight cat menage back in the old, old days was a space heater. The place was freezing, literally, except near the space heater. They had to cooperate all get near it to be warm enough, and then the heat knocked them torpid; by the end of the spring after the heater was turned off they were all sleeping in cuddle piles.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:33 AM on December 19, 2021
And also try the free feeding routine mentioned above. If nobody is concerned that the other one might nip in and get their share of the kibble they might relax a lot more.
What worked with our seven or eight cat menage back in the old, old days was a space heater. The place was freezing, literally, except near the space heater. They had to cooperate all get near it to be warm enough, and then the heat knocked them torpid; by the end of the spring after the heater was turned off they were all sleeping in cuddle piles.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:33 AM on December 19, 2021
My neighbor, who currently has three ferals, and has had as many as 12, mentioned she puts the same perfume on the new ferals and the already integrated ferals to ease transitions to family life!
Also, if you want the name of a cat consultant very familiar with ferals, memail me.
posted by Violet Blue at 10:16 AM on December 19, 2021
Also, if you want the name of a cat consultant very familiar with ferals, memail me.
posted by Violet Blue at 10:16 AM on December 19, 2021
I can't offer any advice (I never figured it out when I had two kittehs, RIP shy tuxedo Max and struttin' monochrome Marty, and now I live in a place with room enough for just one).
But I thank OP for asking this question, and I'll be following the discussion. This challenge will come up sooner rather than later among my fellow cat-loving pals, and I'd like to be able to offer some solid advice.
Best of luck in your efforts to achieve in-house feline civility, OrangeVelour.
PS Those are some fine cats you have there.
posted by virago at 10:34 AM on December 19, 2021
But I thank OP for asking this question, and I'll be following the discussion. This challenge will come up sooner rather than later among my fellow cat-loving pals, and I'd like to be able to offer some solid advice.
Best of luck in your efforts to achieve in-house feline civility, OrangeVelour.
PS Those are some fine cats you have there.
posted by virago at 10:34 AM on December 19, 2021
Thanks for all the advice so far. I’d love more. For clarity and based on suggestions above, at times we’ve swapped their unclean litter boxes and it hasn’t been an issue. We have three boxes now but since porch cat never goes upstairs (she is allowed to but has been taught by the tabby not to) she uses basement box, tabby uses both guest room box and other box when she’s not locked up. I could *temporarily* put a box on the main floor but I’m not gonna live like that.
The problem isn’t porch cat and she’s like, the opposite of feral. Once she came in, she retired to her armchair and is not looking for trouble. She wants tummy rubs. It’s the elderly resident kitty who is out for blood.
posted by OrangeVelour at 10:40 AM on December 19, 2021
The problem isn’t porch cat and she’s like, the opposite of feral. Once she came in, she retired to her armchair and is not looking for trouble. She wants tummy rubs. It’s the elderly resident kitty who is out for blood.
posted by OrangeVelour at 10:40 AM on December 19, 2021
I have the same situation with my cats - two get along and the third one hates the others with a burning passion. Tried all the things you noted (reintroducing, perches, extra litter boxes, feliway, Prozac) with no luck. My vet recommended a behavioral therapist that would come observe the way they interact and suggest changes in the environment etc - I ended up resigning myself to keeping them separate forever, but it might be worth asking your vet for a recommendation of that kind.
posted by tinymojo at 12:26 PM on December 19, 2021
posted by tinymojo at 12:26 PM on December 19, 2021
Oh - because this often gets suggested as a remedy for cat problems: I started with two cats who didn’t get along and got the third to try to change their dynamic. Did not help! (But maybe if I added a fourth it would work….)
posted by tinymojo at 12:36 PM on December 19, 2021
posted by tinymojo at 12:36 PM on December 19, 2021
Our 12-year-old and 1.5-year-old cats fought a lot until we started consistently feeding the elder first, both regular food and treats. It's a dominance thing, and once we made the hierarchy we were going to enforce clear, they got along much better.
posted by telophase at 3:13 PM on December 19, 2021
posted by telophase at 3:13 PM on December 19, 2021
Silvervine works to chill out our grumpy one, where catnip never affected her.
Have you thought about trying CBD oil? There are pet-dosage tinctures available.
(I haven't used it on our cats, but it's been a big help with my doggo. He's terrified of fireworks, but has literally SLEPT through a half-hour town fireworks event on my lap with the help of CBD oil. The norm, prior, was wrapping in a blanket, shivering, on my lap - leaving him home alone, or anywhere without me, isn't a good option when there are firework booms.)
posted by stormyteal at 7:40 PM on December 19, 2021
Have you thought about trying CBD oil? There are pet-dosage tinctures available.
(I haven't used it on our cats, but it's been a big help with my doggo. He's terrified of fireworks, but has literally SLEPT through a half-hour town fireworks event on my lap with the help of CBD oil. The norm, prior, was wrapping in a blanket, shivering, on my lap - leaving him home alone, or anywhere without me, isn't a good option when there are firework booms.)
posted by stormyteal at 7:40 PM on December 19, 2021
A bit out of left field, but has the older kitty been checked recently for health problems like arthritis? Pain can make cats more aggressive.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:04 PM on December 19, 2021
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:04 PM on December 19, 2021
I have been having this problem for almost a year now with my 3 cats, 2 of whom are friends/ have been living with us longer and who ostracize the newcomer whom we adopted in Jan this year. Only recently, in the past month or so have we seen progress (less fighting, less hissing, more ignoring of the cat that they hate). It’s been rough and I nearly lost it several times.
I’ve also tried many of the tips mentioned online - e.g. swapping scents with blankets, shuffling home bases, feeding with a door/ screen between them, feliway etc. and none of them produced significant results.
What I ended up doing:
-Keeping them separate for months, with home bases/ safe rooms to retreat to for each cat. Our newcomer spent a lot of time initially locked up in his room as well, with gradually increasing “yard time” in the common areas.
-Increased the number of litter boxes. We have one for each cat in their safe areas and an extra or two in common areas. You seem to be doing this already so keep it up. You could add the extra one to reassure them that there’s more than enough resources to go around
-Got a ton of boxes/ hiding spaces for each cat so that they could retreat whenever they wanted to - I noticed that they bothered the newcomer less when they were cozy in their boxes (and vice versa). Make sure that these boxes keep the cats well shielded on all sides except for the entrance (so an open bed on the floor may not cut it) Experiment with hiding space locations & also consider how they can use multiple levels of safe spaces as well (e.g shelving). One of my cats is a heights lover and the other two (including the newcomer) feel safer lower to the ground. The cats will let you know what they prefer through this process of trial and error.
-Toys: you may want to get individual ones so that they don’t feel that they have to fight over them
-Most importantly, give it time! You’re gonna be in this for the long haul. Cats are creatures of habit and slow to adapt to change, even changes that may seem trivial to us. You mentioned you just moved in August, that is really recent and both cats may also not be 100% familiar with their new home yet, which adds to their insecurity and can spark fights.
Good luck and wishing you and your kitty friends all the best!
posted by pandanpanda at 10:18 PM on December 19, 2021
I’ve also tried many of the tips mentioned online - e.g. swapping scents with blankets, shuffling home bases, feeding with a door/ screen between them, feliway etc. and none of them produced significant results.
What I ended up doing:
-Keeping them separate for months, with home bases/ safe rooms to retreat to for each cat. Our newcomer spent a lot of time initially locked up in his room as well, with gradually increasing “yard time” in the common areas.
-Increased the number of litter boxes. We have one for each cat in their safe areas and an extra or two in common areas. You seem to be doing this already so keep it up. You could add the extra one to reassure them that there’s more than enough resources to go around
-Got a ton of boxes/ hiding spaces for each cat so that they could retreat whenever they wanted to - I noticed that they bothered the newcomer less when they were cozy in their boxes (and vice versa). Make sure that these boxes keep the cats well shielded on all sides except for the entrance (so an open bed on the floor may not cut it) Experiment with hiding space locations & also consider how they can use multiple levels of safe spaces as well (e.g shelving). One of my cats is a heights lover and the other two (including the newcomer) feel safer lower to the ground. The cats will let you know what they prefer through this process of trial and error.
-Toys: you may want to get individual ones so that they don’t feel that they have to fight over them
-Most importantly, give it time! You’re gonna be in this for the long haul. Cats are creatures of habit and slow to adapt to change, even changes that may seem trivial to us. You mentioned you just moved in August, that is really recent and both cats may also not be 100% familiar with their new home yet, which adds to their insecurity and can spark fights.
Good luck and wishing you and your kitty friends all the best!
posted by pandanpanda at 10:18 PM on December 19, 2021
If you've tried Jackson Galaxy's tips then I have nothing to add.
posted by kschang at 11:08 PM on December 19, 2021
posted by kschang at 11:08 PM on December 19, 2021
I must say though it was complete serendipity that turned my first two cats into friends - my sister in law had brought over her dog and both cats were utterly terrified of it, and when my girl saw how terrified my elder boy was, she started to comfort him and they became fast friends. Till this day she’s his defender in conflicts (he never does the same for her though ha!).
Cats are all individual though and warm up at different speeds (or not at all) to newcomers. My girl has been extremely hostile to cat#3 for most of this year, except in the last month where she’s started to tolerate him walking around in her vicinity. My conflict-averse boy on the other hand mellowed faster and has largely settled for pretending that cat#3 does not exist, save for the occasional squabble. I think as cat owners all we can do is try to provide an environment that would make them feel as secure as possible, with ample resources, and hope for the best.
posted by pandanpanda at 12:01 AM on December 20, 2021
Cats are all individual though and warm up at different speeds (or not at all) to newcomers. My girl has been extremely hostile to cat#3 for most of this year, except in the last month where she’s started to tolerate him walking around in her vicinity. My conflict-averse boy on the other hand mellowed faster and has largely settled for pretending that cat#3 does not exist, save for the occasional squabble. I think as cat owners all we can do is try to provide an environment that would make them feel as secure as possible, with ample resources, and hope for the best.
posted by pandanpanda at 12:01 AM on December 20, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by OrangeVelour at 7:30 AM on December 19, 2021