I feel like I am being ignored out of a job and I don't know what to do?
November 30, 2021 7:26 AM
For the last several months I have been being ignored by all my managers. No email, text, or call is ever responded to. I have tried repeatedly to connect with them without success since at least August (it is now November).
I work for a medium sized company with terminals across the U.S. and Canada. All my managers work from a different terminal in a different time zone than me; I have no superiors or HR that I can see or talk to in person at my terminal.
For the last several months I have been being ignored by all my managers. No email, text, or call is ever responded to. I have tried repeatedly to connect with them without success since at least August (it is now November).
At the same time all my work is being covertly undermined by them. I supervise the safety and compliance of around 130-150 employees. If I take corrective action or discipline, do some training, etc., all things I am supposed to be doing, my managers will reject or undo all of that without even notifying me of it. For example, if I suspend an employee for violation of company policies or for safety and compliance issues, he’ll show up the next day because my manager reinstated him without notifying me of it at all. Another example is if I conduct a pre-employment test with a prospective candidate and he or she fails as per the criteria given to me, my managers will hire them anyway, again without notifying me of this.
I really don’t even know what I am supposed to be doing anymore. What work can or should I do if what my understanding of my responsibilities are is in conflict with the agendas of my managers who refuse to communicate with me? I feel like I am being covertly pushed out of the company (I noticed late October that my job is being advertised on Indeed as well).
Last week I sent in my letter of resignation to all my managers — and predictably not a single one of them has acknowledged it.
In my letter of resignation I offered to remain at the company for two weeks, but nobody has acknowledged it, and frankly I don’t know what work I should be doing for the next two weeks. I honestly don’t know what work I am expected to do because my managers have ignored me for almost 6 months and whatever work I do they just undo it anyway.
What should I do? Should I just cut my losses?
I work for a medium sized company with terminals across the U.S. and Canada. All my managers work from a different terminal in a different time zone than me; I have no superiors or HR that I can see or talk to in person at my terminal.
For the last several months I have been being ignored by all my managers. No email, text, or call is ever responded to. I have tried repeatedly to connect with them without success since at least August (it is now November).
At the same time all my work is being covertly undermined by them. I supervise the safety and compliance of around 130-150 employees. If I take corrective action or discipline, do some training, etc., all things I am supposed to be doing, my managers will reject or undo all of that without even notifying me of it. For example, if I suspend an employee for violation of company policies or for safety and compliance issues, he’ll show up the next day because my manager reinstated him without notifying me of it at all. Another example is if I conduct a pre-employment test with a prospective candidate and he or she fails as per the criteria given to me, my managers will hire them anyway, again without notifying me of this.
I really don’t even know what I am supposed to be doing anymore. What work can or should I do if what my understanding of my responsibilities are is in conflict with the agendas of my managers who refuse to communicate with me? I feel like I am being covertly pushed out of the company (I noticed late October that my job is being advertised on Indeed as well).
Last week I sent in my letter of resignation to all my managers — and predictably not a single one of them has acknowledged it.
In my letter of resignation I offered to remain at the company for two weeks, but nobody has acknowledged it, and frankly I don’t know what work I should be doing for the next two weeks. I honestly don’t know what work I am expected to do because my managers have ignored me for almost 6 months and whatever work I do they just undo it anyway.
What should I do? Should I just cut my losses?
I'm tempted to wonder how long they'd keep paying you for if you just stopped doing anything. But yeah, the responsible thing is to tell HR. Up to you whether you tell them about the whole situation or just make sure they know your last day.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:34 AM on November 30, 2021
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:34 AM on November 30, 2021
EDIT: I suppose I should have specified that the "managers" ignoring me include HR and the owner of the company.
posted by 8LeggedFriend at 7:39 AM on November 30, 2021
posted by 8LeggedFriend at 7:39 AM on November 30, 2021
There's a very big part of me which wants you to rescind your resignation, stop doing your job, but keep collecting your paycheck for as long as they choose to pay you. You can even look for and start working a new job. There is literally no downside, and goodness knows they don't deserve your integrity.
If you at least wait until they fill your position and formally fire you, you get to collect unemployment benefits. You may also be able to collect unemployment now, even after you have resigned, by claiming that your workplace pushed you out of your job by ghosting you. You certainly have enough documentation to prove it. I don't know the exact technical term for it, but your local labor board will have guidance.
posted by MiraK at 7:40 AM on November 30, 2021
If you at least wait until they fill your position and formally fire you, you get to collect unemployment benefits. You may also be able to collect unemployment now, even after you have resigned, by claiming that your workplace pushed you out of your job by ghosting you. You certainly have enough documentation to prove it. I don't know the exact technical term for it, but your local labor board will have guidance.
posted by MiraK at 7:40 AM on November 30, 2021
Ok, that is utterly bizarre. Are you counting on them for anything related to leaving the company? (In particular, if you're in the US, do you need a COBRA to continue your insurance coverage?)
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:41 AM on November 30, 2021
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:41 AM on November 30, 2021
Because you supervise safety and compliance, you might want to spend the next two weeks documenting everything you've done and how it has been undermined -- and making sure you have that documentation when you leave the company. That way if a lawsuit or other action happens, you have proof if they try to set you up as a scapegoat.
posted by mcduff at 7:41 AM on November 30, 2021
posted by mcduff at 7:41 AM on November 30, 2021
Out of sheer bloody mindedness I'd be tempted to travel to wherever HR is and demand to be able to turn in your resignation in person.
What if you called HR from a different number just to see if you could get them to pick up?
What if you just kept re-suspending people they un-suspended? Would that eventually flush them out?
I assume they are continuing to pay you?
Anyway, I would send your resignation registered mail so you know they received it, and then document everything and walk on the day of your choosing. My concern after that would be if they didn't provide tax documentation or other records you might need. You might have to get an attorney involved if that happens.
posted by emjaybee at 7:56 AM on November 30, 2021
What if you called HR from a different number just to see if you could get them to pick up?
What if you just kept re-suspending people they un-suspended? Would that eventually flush them out?
I assume they are continuing to pay you?
Anyway, I would send your resignation registered mail so you know they received it, and then document everything and walk on the day of your choosing. My concern after that would be if they didn't provide tax documentation or other records you might need. You might have to get an attorney involved if that happens.
posted by emjaybee at 7:56 AM on November 30, 2021
If it's just compliance with company policies, I suppose the owners and managers make the policies and can revise them on the fly.
But if you are enforcing legal requirements and they are refusing to follow the law, it seems like you have many other options, such as telling them that you will inform the proper authorities of their failures. You may even be legally required to do so.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:58 AM on November 30, 2021
But if you are enforcing legal requirements and they are refusing to follow the law, it seems like you have many other options, such as telling them that you will inform the proper authorities of their failures. You may even be legally required to do so.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:58 AM on November 30, 2021
Yes, my knee-jerk reaction would simply be to walk off the job on your resignation date and look for a new one, and continue to cash the paychecks until they figure out you're really gone and stop it. That would serve them right, I've had bad bosses before but never one that would simply ignore me.
Speaking professionally, I'd second carefully documenting the efforts you made to enforce compliance, just in case. It may be worth checking with a labor lawyer to make sure you protect yourself from any liability. IANAL but if it were me, on my last day, I'd formally notify them I'm done and reference my earlier notice. If they are really incompetent and continue to pay me, I'd return the money or destroy the checks.
So sorry. I know having a boss that doesn't breathe down your neck sounds like the punchline to a joke, but this must be so stressful.
posted by fortitude25 at 8:04 AM on November 30, 2021
Speaking professionally, I'd second carefully documenting the efforts you made to enforce compliance, just in case. It may be worth checking with a labor lawyer to make sure you protect yourself from any liability. IANAL but if it were me, on my last day, I'd formally notify them I'm done and reference my earlier notice. If they are really incompetent and continue to pay me, I'd return the money or destroy the checks.
So sorry. I know having a boss that doesn't breathe down your neck sounds like the punchline to a joke, but this must be so stressful.
posted by fortitude25 at 8:04 AM on November 30, 2021
You may be in a situation where you are constructively dismissed. A similar same thing happened to me - started January 2019, and was completed March 2020. They were waiting out the master-services contract that I was engaged on (Government client).
Not a single on of their managers, directors or other leads responded to any single email I sent during that time. (As - it leaves a trackable/auditable trail). Plenty of adhoc calls to my phone.
It took me until July 2019 to realize what was happening. Well - they kept taking projects and initiatives away, they ignored all of my advice, guidance, documentation and then proceeded to give me zero tasks, zero meetings and zero acknowledgement.
Found another client - worked both of them until end of March 2020 - paid for my home renovation.
posted by rozcakj at 8:06 AM on November 30, 2021
Not a single on of their managers, directors or other leads responded to any single email I sent during that time. (As - it leaves a trackable/auditable trail). Plenty of adhoc calls to my phone.
It took me until July 2019 to realize what was happening. Well - they kept taking projects and initiatives away, they ignored all of my advice, guidance, documentation and then proceeded to give me zero tasks, zero meetings and zero acknowledgement.
Found another client - worked both of them until end of March 2020 - paid for my home renovation.
posted by rozcakj at 8:06 AM on November 30, 2021
I would take a new job but continue to draw the paycheck from your current job while doing minimal work there (maybe 45 minutes a day?). Once they notice you’re not doing the job anymore, they can fire you. It might take months, during which you draw a paycheck for not doing anything.
posted by mr_roboto at 8:25 AM on November 30, 2021
posted by mr_roboto at 8:25 AM on November 30, 2021
"Constructive Dismissal" - that's the term for it! Here's the wikipedia page. Apparently this allows you to get compensation from your employer (not just unemployment but punitive fines etc) by complaining to your labor board about their behavior. If that's something you're interested in, it sounds like you did the perfect thing by resigning. (Still doesn't stop you from continuing to draw your paycheck for as long as they choose to pay you.)
posted by MiraK at 8:26 AM on November 30, 2021
posted by MiraK at 8:26 AM on November 30, 2021
I have found that everyone seems to be ignoring everyone else right now.
Elsewhere on this site is an article about people who have taken second jobs while retaining their first job, essentially doubling their income.
posted by mecran01 at 8:28 AM on November 30, 2021
Elsewhere on this site is an article about people who have taken second jobs while retaining their first job, essentially doubling their income.
posted by mecran01 at 8:28 AM on November 30, 2021
Ordinarily I'd say to just keep drawing the paycheck as long as you get it while not actually continuing to work past your declared resignation date, but in your case I'd worry (a) about legal liability related to safery and compliance if you stop working without acknowledgement of your resignation, and (b) that they might retroactively try to get the money back.
I might consult an employment lawyer on (a). I would not spend any extra money they paid me. And I'd probably send both another email and a registered letter explaining your resignation will be effective regardless of whether they acknowledge it or not, just to cover your ass.
I also definitely agree with documenting the ways they have reversed your actions, and would probably include the list in the resignation letters for the record.
posted by trig at 8:54 AM on November 30, 2021
I might consult an employment lawyer on (a). I would not spend any extra money they paid me. And I'd probably send both another email and a registered letter explaining your resignation will be effective regardless of whether they acknowledge it or not, just to cover your ass.
I also definitely agree with documenting the ways they have reversed your actions, and would probably include the list in the resignation letters for the record.
posted by trig at 8:54 AM on November 30, 2021
This is truly bizarre and sorry its happening to you - how unnerving. You should definitely do as others have suggested, keep drawing your paycheck (though now that you submitted your resignation, maybe it'll stop after 2 weeks) but spend ALL your time, energy, and mind on getting a new job.
Unless you plan to pursue something legally, don't mess around with the "documentation", that's busy work you are putting on yourself.
Just spend exactly 0 more seconds on this job, and get a new one! Good luck.
posted by RajahKing at 9:06 AM on November 30, 2021
Unless you plan to pursue something legally, don't mess around with the "documentation", that's busy work you are putting on yourself.
Just spend exactly 0 more seconds on this job, and get a new one! Good luck.
posted by RajahKing at 9:06 AM on November 30, 2021
Perhaps snail mail a letter of resignation, but send it registered mail, signature required so you'll have additional legal proof of your resignation?
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 9:35 AM on November 30, 2021
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 9:35 AM on November 30, 2021
I'll add to the suspicion that because you have a safety compliance role they can't simply fire you, so they are simply ignoring you until they can find someone who "sees things their way". Double down on independently documenting the safety actions you are taking. If you have stated a final day and want to stick with that plan, simply stop working on that day. Or, keep doing your job, don't worry about them, and collect unemployment if and when they do fire you. Either way, I hope you are also starting the search for a new (better!) place to work.
posted by meinvt at 10:08 AM on November 30, 2021
posted by meinvt at 10:08 AM on November 30, 2021
> Perhaps snail mail a letter of resignation, but send it registered mail, signature required
Nah I think OP should simply keep copies* of the email sent to which they have not received a reply. There's no need to go to any more effort, let alone added expense, to have proof of notification, because emails are proof aplenty.
* copies, meaning forward a copy of the resignation email to your personal email, and also take screenshots of the email in your work inbox to show their lack of response as of your last day (whenever that may be).
posted by MiraK at 10:09 AM on November 30, 2021
Nah I think OP should simply keep copies* of the email sent to which they have not received a reply. There's no need to go to any more effort, let alone added expense, to have proof of notification, because emails are proof aplenty.
* copies, meaning forward a copy of the resignation email to your personal email, and also take screenshots of the email in your work inbox to show their lack of response as of your last day (whenever that may be).
posted by MiraK at 10:09 AM on November 30, 2021
"I supervise the safety and compliance of around 130-150 employees."
Your job description and your company's actions combined scare me. I worry you're being set up as the fall guy for something. I also strongly disagree with the poster above who advised you not to "mess around with the 'documentation.'"
Most lawyers offer free phone calls to get an overview of what they can do for you. I would call one, possibly two, employment lawyers *before* you leave to get their assessment. If I were you, I"d document everything you can remember *now* on the fly before you leave, and then give a couple of the lawyers a call to see what they think.
posted by Violet Blue at 10:31 AM on November 30, 2021
Your job description and your company's actions combined scare me. I worry you're being set up as the fall guy for something. I also strongly disagree with the poster above who advised you not to "mess around with the 'documentation.'"
Most lawyers offer free phone calls to get an overview of what they can do for you. I would call one, possibly two, employment lawyers *before* you leave to get their assessment. If I were you, I"d document everything you can remember *now* on the fly before you leave, and then give a couple of the lawyers a call to see what they think.
posted by Violet Blue at 10:31 AM on November 30, 2021
While I actually like the idea of "keep the paychecks if they're too stupid to acknowledge your resignation and keep sending them to you", since you do something involving safety and compliance you may also want to be a LITTLE more responsible - because if you just lay back in the buckwheat, and an employee gets their hand chopped off, you're going to be on the hook for it in some capacity even if your managers are idiots.
So...as you continue to collect your paycheck (for as long as they're too stupid to keep sending it to you), I would pay a quiet visit to whichever office in your local government regulates the safety and compliance issues for your particular industry, and tell them the whole story, from soup to nuts. Start with the managers over-riding your work, and end with "and they're not acknowledging my resignation in any capacity and are outright ignoring me". I suspect they would be happy to work with you to resolve your situation first of all, and to do a little closer investigation into what your office is doing. Either way, this way if some shit does go down in your absence, you've gone on record with SOMEONE that "Hey, I tried to stop this and had already expressed intent to get the hell out."
(I'm assuming this would be considered a whistleblower action, any lawyers want to weigh in?)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:33 AM on November 30, 2021
So...as you continue to collect your paycheck (for as long as they're too stupid to keep sending it to you), I would pay a quiet visit to whichever office in your local government regulates the safety and compliance issues for your particular industry, and tell them the whole story, from soup to nuts. Start with the managers over-riding your work, and end with "and they're not acknowledging my resignation in any capacity and are outright ignoring me". I suspect they would be happy to work with you to resolve your situation first of all, and to do a little closer investigation into what your office is doing. Either way, this way if some shit does go down in your absence, you've gone on record with SOMEONE that "Hey, I tried to stop this and had already expressed intent to get the hell out."
(I'm assuming this would be considered a whistleblower action, any lawyers want to weigh in?)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:33 AM on November 30, 2021
I used to handle some OSHA stuff for my old industry (Harwell training grants and the like, so I worked with the people who performed your role), and if I were in your place I'd contact an employment lawyer in your jurisdiction ASAP. I'm mildly concerned you're being set up, so it would be advisable to chat with a professional before things go much further.
...to be clear, you may be fine! But it would be wise to find out if there are any steps you should be taking before you need to take them. In all likelihood you can just keep getting paid for being ignored, but it's best to make goddamn sure.
posted by aramaic at 11:21 AM on November 30, 2021
...to be clear, you may be fine! But it would be wise to find out if there are any steps you should be taking before you need to take them. In all likelihood you can just keep getting paid for being ignored, but it's best to make goddamn sure.
posted by aramaic at 11:21 AM on November 30, 2021
Although I would usually encourage you to take Empress Callipygos's frequently excellent advice, please don't this time.
This is how I would proceed:
(1) I would take as many notes as you can and see if you can track down an employment lawyer for a free consultation either today or tomorrow. That lawyer should be able to advise you.
(2) If not, or if you want to be extra careful, there are lawyers who specialize in protecting whistleblowers. Just google "lawyer whistleblower" and you'll see what I mean. Now, call one of them for a free consultation. Why? Because if your medium-sized North American company is large enough that you typically oversee more than 100 people for safety and compliance issues, and if they're looking to replace you with someone considerably less diligent, it's not impossible that they have reason to know the regulatory agency will not reprimand them. It may even be possible that the regulatory agency has someone there "on the take." Don't think it's impossible just because you've never experienced corruption before.
posted by Violet Blue at 12:51 PM on November 30, 2021
This is how I would proceed:
(1) I would take as many notes as you can and see if you can track down an employment lawyer for a free consultation either today or tomorrow. That lawyer should be able to advise you.
(2) If not, or if you want to be extra careful, there are lawyers who specialize in protecting whistleblowers. Just google "lawyer whistleblower" and you'll see what I mean. Now, call one of them for a free consultation. Why? Because if your medium-sized North American company is large enough that you typically oversee more than 100 people for safety and compliance issues, and if they're looking to replace you with someone considerably less diligent, it's not impossible that they have reason to know the regulatory agency will not reprimand them. It may even be possible that the regulatory agency has someone there "on the take." Don't think it's impossible just because you've never experienced corruption before.
posted by Violet Blue at 12:51 PM on November 30, 2021
I'd suggest the best course of action is to focus on stabilising your own situation and lining up the next job. The situation sounds somewhat demoralising and frustrating. Much healthier psychologically to be focusing on the next new opportunity without dwelling on this strange situation.
To reduce risk, documenting things sounds wise. Getting independent legal advice may also be wise.
Re: the "whistleblower" angle -- from someone who has known a few people who ended up in litigation with former employers (not from whistleblowing, from other situations involving competition with former employers) -- I'd suggest that you don't go out of your way to pick a legal fight with the old job, unless there's a very large upside and you have a very clear idea of what consequences this may cause.
It's very easy for people on the internet who don't have skin in the game to suggest you to take a course of action that might blow up into months or years of stress and legal expenses.
posted by are-coral-made at 2:02 PM on November 30, 2021
To reduce risk, documenting things sounds wise. Getting independent legal advice may also be wise.
Re: the "whistleblower" angle -- from someone who has known a few people who ended up in litigation with former employers (not from whistleblowing, from other situations involving competition with former employers) -- I'd suggest that you don't go out of your way to pick a legal fight with the old job, unless there's a very large upside and you have a very clear idea of what consequences this may cause.
It's very easy for people on the internet who don't have skin in the game to suggest you to take a course of action that might blow up into months or years of stress and legal expenses.
posted by are-coral-made at 2:02 PM on November 30, 2021
FFS, just make sure you're safe by calling a couple of lawyers for a free consultation, that's all I'm saying.
posted by Violet Blue at 2:11 PM on November 30, 2021
posted by Violet Blue at 2:11 PM on November 30, 2021
Definitely quickly make copies (both virtual and paper printouts) of all emails you've sent that have been ignored, all company policies you can find, and documentation of all safety violations.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 2:26 PM on November 30, 2021
posted by nouvelle-personne at 2:26 PM on November 30, 2021
"Consult with a lawyer to see if there's weird shit you need to protect yourself from" is definitely a better idea than the one I suggested, go with that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:03 PM on November 30, 2021
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:03 PM on November 30, 2021
as you continue to collect your paycheck (for as long as they're too stupid to keep sending it to you), I would pay a quiet visit to whichever office in your local government regulates the safety and compliance issues for your particular industry, and tell them the whole story, from soup to nuts.
I was just about to say this as well.
posted by Gelatin at 6:48 AM on December 2, 2021
I was just about to say this as well.
posted by Gelatin at 6:48 AM on December 2, 2021
And on further reading I also agree with "consult with lawyers pronto."
posted by Gelatin at 6:52 AM on December 2, 2021
posted by Gelatin at 6:52 AM on December 2, 2021
Good lord. I can't think of worse advice than continuing to cash paychecks beyond your resignation date. Please do not listen to that advice, which may undermine anything else you might do to protect yourself here.
Lawyer up ASAP. "Free first consult" is the phrase to use as you call around. Here's the MeFi Wiki's "Get A Lawyer" page, which links the National Employment Lawyers Association as a possible resource under the "Finding an attorney" section.
posted by mediareport at 2:54 AM on December 4, 2021
Lawyer up ASAP. "Free first consult" is the phrase to use as you call around. Here's the MeFi Wiki's "Get A Lawyer" page, which links the National Employment Lawyers Association as a possible resource under the "Finding an attorney" section.
posted by mediareport at 2:54 AM on December 4, 2021
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I had a past supervisor who never told HR I was leaving and I called them on my second to last day to see if they wanted to do an exit interview which is when they found out I’d be gone
posted by raccoon409 at 7:28 AM on November 30, 2021