Lingua francas for Cantonese-speaking communities
November 2, 2021 12:25 PM Subscribe
I live in an area of the US with a large overseas Chinese community (a historical Chinatown) that is mostly Cantonese/Taishanese speaking. I speak Mandarin, but unfortunately do not speak or understand any Cantonese. Is it better to use Mandarin or English when communicating?
Personal details: I grew up in the US and don't have a native-level command of Mandarin, but I grew up in a Mandarin-speaking household and am relatively fluent with a minimal accent. The Chinese communities in the area I grew up in were mostly Mandarin speaking, so I also don't feel like I have the best cultural understanding of the Cantonese communities I now interact with.
My goals here are a) to be as respectful as possible, and b) to produce the least amount of friction for the other party in terms of communication. In particular, I worry about any potential political or cultural offenses caused by assuming that someone speaks Mandarin just because they are ethnically Chinese.
I'm guessing the real answer here is "it depends", but I'm wondering if there is some general guidance I can use to inform my interactions. I'd very much appreciate any thoughts here - thanks!
Personal details: I grew up in the US and don't have a native-level command of Mandarin, but I grew up in a Mandarin-speaking household and am relatively fluent with a minimal accent. The Chinese communities in the area I grew up in were mostly Mandarin speaking, so I also don't feel like I have the best cultural understanding of the Cantonese communities I now interact with.
My goals here are a) to be as respectful as possible, and b) to produce the least amount of friction for the other party in terms of communication. In particular, I worry about any potential political or cultural offenses caused by assuming that someone speaks Mandarin just because they are ethnically Chinese.
I'm guessing the real answer here is "it depends", but I'm wondering if there is some general guidance I can use to inform my interactions. I'd very much appreciate any thoughts here - thanks!
Oh sorry...I think I read too fast: whether you use English or Mandarin will just depend on who you're talking to, and people will tell you if they do know English or not. We're very direct.
posted by toastyk at 12:46 PM on November 2, 2021
posted by toastyk at 12:46 PM on November 2, 2021
You can check in English first what they prefer and switch to that language. Generally people understand at least a basic level of Mandarin if they spent some time in PRC/Taiwan, but there may be some people who only know Cantonese/Taishanese or another dialect e.g. people who emigrated long ago from Hong Kong/Guangdong, are multi-generation in the US or from the Southeast Asian diaspora.
There may also be a political element if you are interacting with people who have moved from Hong Kong more recently, due to the mainland/local tensions and recent protests there. I know for certain if you assume people speak Mandarin in HK some will bristle or take offence, but I think there's less of that tension in overseas Chinese communities and most people won't mind.
posted by monocot at 2:10 PM on November 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
There may also be a political element if you are interacting with people who have moved from Hong Kong more recently, due to the mainland/local tensions and recent protests there. I know for certain if you assume people speak Mandarin in HK some will bristle or take offence, but I think there's less of that tension in overseas Chinese communities and most people won't mind.
posted by monocot at 2:10 PM on November 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
Generally speaking you can use Mandarin, as most will speak at least a limited Mandarin.
I grew up speaking Mandarin even though my household is technically Cantonese. :D So you'll generally be fine. I speak both fluently, with or without accent. So most people have no idea where I'm really from. :D Many assume I'm ABC because of my fluent English. But I'm not that either.
Most people in Chinatown are not that political, IMHO. If you speak Mandarin, they won't automatically assume you're from Mainland unless you have a certain attitude and/or put a lot of "er" in your pronunciations (that's sort of a joke). They'd probably assume you're ABC.
posted by kschang at 3:57 PM on November 2, 2021
I grew up speaking Mandarin even though my household is technically Cantonese. :D So you'll generally be fine. I speak both fluently, with or without accent. So most people have no idea where I'm really from. :D Many assume I'm ABC because of my fluent English. But I'm not that either.
Most people in Chinatown are not that political, IMHO. If you speak Mandarin, they won't automatically assume you're from Mainland unless you have a certain attitude and/or put a lot of "er" in your pronunciations (that's sort of a joke). They'd probably assume you're ABC.
posted by kschang at 3:57 PM on November 2, 2021
I believe that it will really depend on which Chinatown you're talking about.
If the non-Mandarin Chinese speakers are multi-generational (or not recent immigrants), I'd suggest sticking to English. Even the younger generation may not be completely fluent in Cantonese/ Toishanese, and depending on the neighbourhood, even older people who moved overseas as adults or young adults may not speak fluently - much less modern Mandarin.
After you've established rapport in English, you can gently probe how well Mandarin is understood/ welcome.
Your Mandarin accent - mainland or Taiwanese or US-taught may also affect how it's taken.
But if a) and b) are your well intentioned goals. English.
fwiw, I'm in Vancouver and I resent people assuming that I speak Mandarin just because of how I look (moved here ~35 years ago at age 5, and family always seemed to move away when HKers started moving into the neighbourhood, so I'm barely a Cantonese speaker and functionally illiterate).
If they are genuinely in need of aid and can't speak English, I'll try my best (it has happened a bunch, also super recently arrived Toishan speakers, but this was mostly in the 90's/ 00's). But casual assumption that I speak Mandarin? They can get lost.
(The Chinatown here is essentially on it's deathbed, almost exclusively "lo yeh" (old timer - 1970-1990) Cantonese. Even in Richmond/ Burnaby, there are pan-Chinese neighbourhoods and predominantly-Cantonese neigbourhoods. Toishan, Fukinese, etc. has become a very small minority.)
When shopkeeps and the like start speaking Cantonese to me, I'm flattered and enjoy trying to remember how to speak.
posted by porpoise at 8:36 PM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
If the non-Mandarin Chinese speakers are multi-generational (or not recent immigrants), I'd suggest sticking to English. Even the younger generation may not be completely fluent in Cantonese/ Toishanese, and depending on the neighbourhood, even older people who moved overseas as adults or young adults may not speak fluently - much less modern Mandarin.
After you've established rapport in English, you can gently probe how well Mandarin is understood/ welcome.
Your Mandarin accent - mainland or Taiwanese or US-taught may also affect how it's taken.
But if a) and b) are your well intentioned goals. English.
fwiw, I'm in Vancouver and I resent people assuming that I speak Mandarin just because of how I look (moved here ~35 years ago at age 5, and family always seemed to move away when HKers started moving into the neighbourhood, so I'm barely a Cantonese speaker and functionally illiterate).
If they are genuinely in need of aid and can't speak English, I'll try my best (it has happened a bunch, also super recently arrived Toishan speakers, but this was mostly in the 90's/ 00's). But casual assumption that I speak Mandarin? They can get lost.
(The Chinatown here is essentially on it's deathbed, almost exclusively "lo yeh" (old timer - 1970-1990) Cantonese. Even in Richmond/ Burnaby, there are pan-Chinese neighbourhoods and predominantly-Cantonese neigbourhoods. Toishan, Fukinese, etc. has become a very small minority.)
When shopkeeps and the like start speaking Cantonese to me, I'm flattered and enjoy trying to remember how to speak.
posted by porpoise at 8:36 PM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
My Taishanese and Cantonese speaking parents are in their 70s and came to Canada separately as young adults. I was born here. For my parents (and myself of course), English would be better than Mandarin. They can understand it somewhat, but do not speak it. (I am slowly learning Mandarin myself and man is the pronunciation hard. The sounds are so different from Taishanese/Canto.)
posted by methroach at 9:23 PM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by methroach at 9:23 PM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
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Cantonese/Taishanese people (at least, my area and people) are very friendly and love making connections. You're good.
posted by toastyk at 12:43 PM on November 2, 2021 [1 favorite]