What should I say here?
December 27, 2020 10:00 AM Subscribe
So my parents did not get my kid anything for Christmas. There is a complicated family dynamic with a million moving parts, but I need a way to gently say to them, "This is hurtful." Help?
This is a bare-bones description of some of the moving parts:
-- Parents = my father + stepmother (married 30+ years)
-- In my generation: Stepmother has always exhibited massive favoritism for one of her bio children. Her other bio child + me & my bio sibling are frequently left out. It's annoying as hell but also we're all grown-ups at this point so whatever.
-- In the grandchildren generation: As grandparents, my dad & stepmom have shown less favoritism, seeming to cherish all the grandchildren equally.
-- Grandparents are, stupidly, doing that thing where they haven't been taking Covid seriously enough.
-- All of us non-favorites in my generation are taking it very seriously, but the favorite in my generation isn't.
-- Which led to grandparents flying (!!!) to see the favorite and their family this xmas. This whole family was handsomely rewarded with presents, new home furnishings, just a parade of benefits. It's ridiculous, but again I don't really care on my behalf.
-- None of this would have been a very big deal but at the end of Xmas Day we had a family Zoom where those grandchildren were showing off all their stuff they got from Grandma and Grandpa, while my kid sat there on my end realizing that they didn't get him anything -- not even a card.
-- My child has no other grandparents to gift him anything -- some are dead; the other living grandparent is ill enough that presents are out of the question.
-- There's absolutely the sucky Covid element. Kid only got boring old Mom and Dad to gift him, after 10 months at home, Thanksgiving with just the three of us, etc. It's hard to watch everyone out there having fun without him!
I'd like to find a somewhat gentle way of saying to the grandparents that this sucked, that my kid felt bad. I need it to be separate from "give my kid stuff!" and more like "my kid really loves you, and you're his grandparents, and it would really be nice to show him how much you care for him on a major holiday." And/or "It was hard for Kid to see his cousins and their mountain of presents, knowing he received nothing." There is definitely *a lot* of other family baggage here, so I'm needing to find a way where I discuss this one element, not the mountain of trash that is Everything Wrong.
Can you help me with a script and/or some thoughts of what I should be considering at this moment?
This is a bare-bones description of some of the moving parts:
-- Parents = my father + stepmother (married 30+ years)
-- In my generation: Stepmother has always exhibited massive favoritism for one of her bio children. Her other bio child + me & my bio sibling are frequently left out. It's annoying as hell but also we're all grown-ups at this point so whatever.
-- In the grandchildren generation: As grandparents, my dad & stepmom have shown less favoritism, seeming to cherish all the grandchildren equally.
-- Grandparents are, stupidly, doing that thing where they haven't been taking Covid seriously enough.
-- All of us non-favorites in my generation are taking it very seriously, but the favorite in my generation isn't.
-- Which led to grandparents flying (!!!) to see the favorite and their family this xmas. This whole family was handsomely rewarded with presents, new home furnishings, just a parade of benefits. It's ridiculous, but again I don't really care on my behalf.
-- None of this would have been a very big deal but at the end of Xmas Day we had a family Zoom where those grandchildren were showing off all their stuff they got from Grandma and Grandpa, while my kid sat there on my end realizing that they didn't get him anything -- not even a card.
-- My child has no other grandparents to gift him anything -- some are dead; the other living grandparent is ill enough that presents are out of the question.
-- There's absolutely the sucky Covid element. Kid only got boring old Mom and Dad to gift him, after 10 months at home, Thanksgiving with just the three of us, etc. It's hard to watch everyone out there having fun without him!
I'd like to find a somewhat gentle way of saying to the grandparents that this sucked, that my kid felt bad. I need it to be separate from "give my kid stuff!" and more like "my kid really loves you, and you're his grandparents, and it would really be nice to show him how much you care for him on a major holiday." And/or "It was hard for Kid to see his cousins and their mountain of presents, knowing he received nothing." There is definitely *a lot* of other family baggage here, so I'm needing to find a way where I discuss this one element, not the mountain of trash that is Everything Wrong.
Can you help me with a script and/or some thoughts of what I should be considering at this moment?
I would seriously consider going no contact with these people, because (IMHO) life is entirely too short to spend it being concerned with the behavior of toxic people. YMMV
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 10:14 AM on December 27, 2020 [44 favorites]
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 10:14 AM on December 27, 2020 [44 favorites]
I mean, it seems like they were actively trying to be hurtful, so telling them they succeeded probably won't change anything except make them glad that they successfully got under your skin. You should be working on protecting your kids from people who would use them as pawns in their shitty power game.
posted by brainmouse at 10:18 AM on December 27, 2020 [65 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 10:18 AM on December 27, 2020 [65 favorites]
I would just say what you wrote above: "My kid really loves you, and you're his grandparents, and it would really be nice to show him how much you care for him on a major holiday". And if they huff and puff about it, then from now on just purchase something, wrap it, and say it's from them. Then when your kid calls to thank them for the gift they didn't send, hopefully they'll feel shitty enough about it to step it up.
posted by greta simone at 10:19 AM on December 27, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by greta simone at 10:19 AM on December 27, 2020 [15 favorites]
Hey AnonGrandparents, it was so awesome so see everyone on the Christmas zoom! Kidanon always loves seeing his cousins and he enjoyed seeing their presents. He asked us if his present from AnonGpa is still in the mail. What should I tell him?
(USPS is delayed, and I’d want to confirm that that isn’t a factor before having a conversation about gifting/non gifting)
posted by arnicae at 10:19 AM on December 27, 2020 [121 favorites]
(USPS is delayed, and I’d want to confirm that that isn’t a factor before having a conversation about gifting/non gifting)
posted by arnicae at 10:19 AM on December 27, 2020 [121 favorites]
I don't know your parents and this might be an uncharitable reading, but it seems very plausible that they intended this. Your parents are not dumb. They know how hurtful this was. That was the point. I'm willing to bet that they very much want you to talk to them about this so they can put the blame on you for not inviting them to/joining them at the massive pandemic Christmas event. They'll frame your (responsible) behavior as covid paranoia that ruined your child's holiday. If you have any other parenting disagreements, expect those to come out as well.
If you're looking forward to that argument and you think you can prevail and use it to make your parents better people, go for it! Otherwise, just accept who they are and focus on your kid. You don't have to go into your history, but just let them talk about how shitty it was and how they feel.
posted by Garm at 10:24 AM on December 27, 2020 [20 favorites]
If you're looking forward to that argument and you think you can prevail and use it to make your parents better people, go for it! Otherwise, just accept who they are and focus on your kid. You don't have to go into your history, but just let them talk about how shitty it was and how they feel.
posted by Garm at 10:24 AM on December 27, 2020 [20 favorites]
Modeling that you have to tolerate that kind of behavior is something your child may carry in a very negative way for their entire life, and make all sorts of relationships incredibly difficult for them. I cannot emphasize how damaging this can be for a child, not for them to experience it, but to having their parents participate and play their role in the toxic relationship.
I would not engage in their behavior, and would refocus your efforts on supporting your child, and teaching them how to healthfully mourn the loss of things like living grandparents; this is something our society on a whole does a real shitty job of. You don't need to focus on them or get a script for what to say to them, you need to focus on your kid. If you are bad at this (which, hey, lots of us are, especially if our families of origin are problematic), therapists are generally very good at this.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:24 AM on December 27, 2020 [50 favorites]
I would not engage in their behavior, and would refocus your efforts on supporting your child, and teaching them how to healthfully mourn the loss of things like living grandparents; this is something our society on a whole does a real shitty job of. You don't need to focus on them or get a script for what to say to them, you need to focus on your kid. If you are bad at this (which, hey, lots of us are, especially if our families of origin are problematic), therapists are generally very good at this.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:24 AM on December 27, 2020 [50 favorites]
The good news is you don't have a lot to lose.
You probably do have to include your stepmom in the conversation bc she is almost certainly the one who buys the gifts and controls those logistics. In fact, I'd address her directly, on the phone. And I suspect that letting her save face might be a good idea (although I doubt she sent anything; if she had, she'd have said so on the Zoom.)
"Phyllis, it was wonderful to see you and the family on the Zoom. I have to say, it was surprising for Tommaso to have been left out of the gift giving. I told him a lot of stuff has been delayed in the mail this year because he was so hurt to have been left out, and I thought I'd better check with you to see what's really going on. Were you planning on sending him anything for Christmas?"
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:44 AM on December 27, 2020 [13 favorites]
You probably do have to include your stepmom in the conversation bc she is almost certainly the one who buys the gifts and controls those logistics. In fact, I'd address her directly, on the phone. And I suspect that letting her save face might be a good idea (although I doubt she sent anything; if she had, she'd have said so on the Zoom.)
"Phyllis, it was wonderful to see you and the family on the Zoom. I have to say, it was surprising for Tommaso to have been left out of the gift giving. I told him a lot of stuff has been delayed in the mail this year because he was so hurt to have been left out, and I thought I'd better check with you to see what's really going on. Were you planning on sending him anything for Christmas?"
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:44 AM on December 27, 2020 [13 favorites]
It is inconceivable to me that they didn’t do it on purpose (because otherwise they would have felt bad when the gift bragging started and tried to minimize it or tell your kid that his gift was en route). So I think addressing it directly is the way to go. Most bullies back down from direct conflict.
Asking about parcel delivery tracking is a good in that allows them to save face and atone.
“Hi! Nice to chat with everyone over Xmas! Marty was pretty sad that his cousins showed off gifts from you and he didn’t get any- before I discuss with him that some people treat other unequally, I just wanted to ensure nothing is en route?”
If they confirm no gift, I would ask them directly why they thought it was ok to flaunt unequal treatment of grandchildren in front of a child, and what that teaches your child- AND what it teaches his cousins.
They can’t even blame it on the other parents or the children since they’d all have reasonably concluded that all the cousins would have gotten gifts. Only the grandparents began that call with full knowledge that your child didn’t get a gift.
It’s not at all about getting a gift or not- it’s about blatantly doing something that would obviously make a child feel shitty.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:54 AM on December 27, 2020 [39 favorites]
Asking about parcel delivery tracking is a good in that allows them to save face and atone.
“Hi! Nice to chat with everyone over Xmas! Marty was pretty sad that his cousins showed off gifts from you and he didn’t get any- before I discuss with him that some people treat other unequally, I just wanted to ensure nothing is en route?”
If they confirm no gift, I would ask them directly why they thought it was ok to flaunt unequal treatment of grandchildren in front of a child, and what that teaches your child- AND what it teaches his cousins.
They can’t even blame it on the other parents or the children since they’d all have reasonably concluded that all the cousins would have gotten gifts. Only the grandparents began that call with full knowledge that your child didn’t get a gift.
It’s not at all about getting a gift or not- it’s about blatantly doing something that would obviously make a child feel shitty.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:54 AM on December 27, 2020 [39 favorites]
Is the kid distressed or are you? I say this without judgement because I know how it feels. If you kid is upset I would explain that sometimes adults are forgetful and careless and don't always know how to show love but they do love. Then drop it because you can't make anyone else be considerate and nobody is entitled to a gift even if they are a kid.
You and your family can move on and your kid is going to be fine. I used to care a lot about how my parents showed love and interest to my kids and then I realized I was projecting and nursing my old hurts. Our kids care about what we are doing most. They are not as concerned about grandparents. I wouldn't paint the parents in a bad light to your kid. I wouldn't paint life as boring when your kid may not be thinking that at all.
If you want to bring up to the parents I would say something along the lines of "It was hard for Kid to see his cousins and their mountain of presents, knowing he received nothing." Because this scene was inconsiderate and in poor taste. You don't eat cake in front of kids unless there is cake for everyone. They are adults and should know better. I would keep it very short and factual and keep it to one or two sentences without piling on or being accusatory about their motivations.
posted by loveandhappiness at 10:57 AM on December 27, 2020 [20 favorites]
You and your family can move on and your kid is going to be fine. I used to care a lot about how my parents showed love and interest to my kids and then I realized I was projecting and nursing my old hurts. Our kids care about what we are doing most. They are not as concerned about grandparents. I wouldn't paint the parents in a bad light to your kid. I wouldn't paint life as boring when your kid may not be thinking that at all.
If you want to bring up to the parents I would say something along the lines of "It was hard for Kid to see his cousins and their mountain of presents, knowing he received nothing." Because this scene was inconsiderate and in poor taste. You don't eat cake in front of kids unless there is cake for everyone. They are adults and should know better. I would keep it very short and factual and keep it to one or two sentences without piling on or being accusatory about their motivations.
posted by loveandhappiness at 10:57 AM on December 27, 2020 [20 favorites]
The dynamics on my dad's side of the family are like this. Overt favoritism, unequal gifting, the whole shebang. Luckily I had lots of adults in my life who showed me what love and affection look like, and I never felt like I missed having a relationship with "family" that is only family by accident of birth or marriage.
Honestly, I think my mom took it harder than my brother or I ever did; we are in our 30s now and she still goes on about something that happened when I was a toddler. Don't be that parent. Talk to your kid first and gauge how they feel. They are likely very aware of this dynamic (I was, by age 5 or 6) and they just may not care because if they realize Gramps and Step-Gran don't care about him, no amount of gifting will make up for that.
posted by basalganglia at 11:01 AM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
Honestly, I think my mom took it harder than my brother or I ever did; we are in our 30s now and she still goes on about something that happened when I was a toddler. Don't be that parent. Talk to your kid first and gauge how they feel. They are likely very aware of this dynamic (I was, by age 5 or 6) and they just may not care because if they realize Gramps and Step-Gran don't care about him, no amount of gifting will make up for that.
posted by basalganglia at 11:01 AM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
Perfect idea upthread to ask grandparents what to tell your son. In parallel You have an honest conversation with your son about how he’s feeling, acknowledge that it wasn’t nice and being left out hurts and then try to do something special together to make up for it (hard in Covid times I know). And yes if their answer is petty then reduce contact.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:02 AM on December 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:02 AM on December 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
I can’t read this any other way than they were punishing you for not doing the in-person holiday, and rubbing it in over zoom. So I don’t think there’s any need to tell them anything. And if you did, this would not be satisfying for you because they’d never validate it. In fact, I’m sure they’d LOVE for you to comment so they can turn it around on you and say “well, that’s why you don’t deprive a child of Christmas with their family!”
It’s really hard to adjust (lower) your expectations of parental figures as an adult but I think it may be easier for your kid if they start now. How old is the kid? The appropriate phrasing of how you help them adjust will depend on age.
I strongly disagree with asking them to confirm the gift is in the mail. That’s passive aggressive and it IS asking for presents which as you say, isn’t the issue. It’s not helping them save face because there is no present and I bet they’re DYING for you to make it an issue this way so they can lash out again by blaming you.
posted by kapers at 11:08 AM on December 27, 2020 [15 favorites]
It’s really hard to adjust (lower) your expectations of parental figures as an adult but I think it may be easier for your kid if they start now. How old is the kid? The appropriate phrasing of how you help them adjust will depend on age.
I strongly disagree with asking them to confirm the gift is in the mail. That’s passive aggressive and it IS asking for presents which as you say, isn’t the issue. It’s not helping them save face because there is no present and I bet they’re DYING for you to make it an issue this way so they can lash out again by blaming you.
posted by kapers at 11:08 AM on December 27, 2020 [15 favorites]
As a respectful counterargument to loveandhappiness's comment about kids not caring, I can assure you that as the grandchild of someone who chose their stepchildren's families over mine every holiday, including my birthday: I cared, and it sucked knowing that my grandpa wasn't willing to make more of an effort until AFTER his second wife died. I knew it without my parents telling me.
As such, I am very, very sorry you and your child are going through this.
A part of me wants to say, go for the jugular! Draw a line in the sand! I don't know how to do that, though, because I grew up with my parents not-so-silently acknowledging the deficit in my grandpa's ability to love me properly all the time. I hope you find a way, though, because your kiddo deserves it, which is exactly why you asked this question in the first place.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 11:17 AM on December 27, 2020 [8 favorites]
As such, I am very, very sorry you and your child are going through this.
A part of me wants to say, go for the jugular! Draw a line in the sand! I don't know how to do that, though, because I grew up with my parents not-so-silently acknowledging the deficit in my grandpa's ability to love me properly all the time. I hope you find a way, though, because your kiddo deserves it, which is exactly why you asked this question in the first place.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 11:17 AM on December 27, 2020 [8 favorites]
Mail/deliveries ARE severely delayed. We just received a package yesterday that was mailed on NOVEMBER 21. It arrived over a month later. I shipped a package on December 3 and it still hasn’t arrived. So things are getting gummed up in the mail. I’m not the only one experiencing this.
That said, I would definitely confirm or ask if they have or have not sent a gift. They may have been wondering why your kid wasn’t opening the gifts they sent or showing the gift off during the zoom call. They could very well be hurt that your kid didn’t seem to be interested in the gift they sent, not knowing that the gift hadn’t actually arrived.
Have a clear cut conversation about it. Ask them point blank if they sent a gift or not. If not, then have a serious discussion about the hurtfulness of and any consequences to this behavior.
posted by Sassyfras at 11:18 AM on December 27, 2020 [11 favorites]
That said, I would definitely confirm or ask if they have or have not sent a gift. They may have been wondering why your kid wasn’t opening the gifts they sent or showing the gift off during the zoom call. They could very well be hurt that your kid didn’t seem to be interested in the gift they sent, not knowing that the gift hadn’t actually arrived.
Have a clear cut conversation about it. Ask them point blank if they sent a gift or not. If not, then have a serious discussion about the hurtfulness of and any consequences to this behavior.
posted by Sassyfras at 11:18 AM on December 27, 2020 [11 favorites]
It’s hard to say based on this information what is really going on. Christmas was only two days ago...it seems reasonable to me that the grandparents brought presents for the kids they were seeing on the holiday and just haven’t had the chance to give your kid presents yet. If this was two weeks from now and the grandkids were gloating about their presents I’d find it stranger, but Christmas JUST happened yk?
Do they usually give presents to all the grandkids regardless of whether they see you on the holiday or not? I find people in that generation to be by far the most inflexible and unadaptable about COVID stuff. My mom said “no presents” this year because she just didn’t see the point if we weren’t going to see each other. Could that be at play here?
posted by cakelite at 11:21 AM on December 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
Do they usually give presents to all the grandkids regardless of whether they see you on the holiday or not? I find people in that generation to be by far the most inflexible and unadaptable about COVID stuff. My mom said “no presents” this year because she just didn’t see the point if we weren’t going to see each other. Could that be at play here?
posted by cakelite at 11:21 AM on December 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
A box meant for me ended up with my sole sibling - there are some familial dynamics at play but it was indeed an unintended mistake. I would also suggest that you point blank ask to confirm whether gifts were delayed, misdirected or even stolen before taking your next actions.
posted by rdnnyc at 11:52 AM on December 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by rdnnyc at 11:52 AM on December 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
This is a great opportunity to model being unconcerned when someone else has more than you. No one owes anyone gifts. Your feelings about these parents should not depend on their gift-giving, both on general principle and because it extinguishes any manipulative effect they might have hoped to achieve.
posted by lakeroon at 12:13 PM on December 27, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by lakeroon at 12:13 PM on December 27, 2020 [8 favorites]
This is either a mail-delay situation (unlikely, because they would probably have said something about gifts, but possible), or a carefully laid out plan. It's perfect in a way -- you can't really say anything without it sounding like "I want gifts", but the issue is totally separate from the material gifts. So they have you hamstrung -- I've dealt with a few people with these ninja-level skills for inflicting pain and then gaslighting, and if that's what is going on you're probably best off to just ignore it and talk to your kid separately.
posted by nixxon at 12:29 PM on December 27, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by nixxon at 12:29 PM on December 27, 2020 [7 favorites]
I don't know what the best way to approach this is, and some direct approaches have been described above. If you want to do this in a more eggshell-y/passive-aggressive way (passive aggression isn't always bad), you could say something like "During that family Zoom, favored grandchildren were showing off all their stuff they got from Grandma and Grandpa, while my kid sat there on my end realizing that they didn't get him anything. I know you might have sent presents that are delayed in the mail, and if so could you let me know so that I can tell him? If not, that's certainly your right, and I'll get him something myself and say that it's from you. But could you write him a card or call him so that he knows his grandparents care? I'll tell you what I bought him so that you can take credit for it."
Use this approach if you want to make it clear that money isn't the issue, but also that they're assholes.
posted by trig at 12:45 PM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
Use this approach if you want to make it clear that money isn't the issue, but also that they're assholes.
posted by trig at 12:45 PM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
Regarding this:
There's absolutely the sucky Covid element. Kid only got boring old Mom and Dad to gift him, after 10 months at home, Thanksgiving with just the three of us, etc. It's hard to watch everyone out there having fun without him!
Did the other cousins also get shafted? If so (maybe even if not) you could start a family tradition of sending cousinly gifts across the families - maybe a kind of Secret Santa type of deal (you might be able to do it for New Year's or some other upcoming date this time around. Or even make do a Monthly Pandemic Small Gift Exchange, or something). And if cousins aren't the best address for this, then maybe friend groups - there have to be a lot of kids who would enjoy the excitement of not just getting but also picking out or making gifts for their friends, especially this year.
posted by trig at 12:50 PM on December 27, 2020 [9 favorites]
There's absolutely the sucky Covid element. Kid only got boring old Mom and Dad to gift him, after 10 months at home, Thanksgiving with just the three of us, etc. It's hard to watch everyone out there having fun without him!
Did the other cousins also get shafted? If so (maybe even if not) you could start a family tradition of sending cousinly gifts across the families - maybe a kind of Secret Santa type of deal (you might be able to do it for New Year's or some other upcoming date this time around. Or even make do a Monthly Pandemic Small Gift Exchange, or something). And if cousins aren't the best address for this, then maybe friend groups - there have to be a lot of kids who would enjoy the excitement of not just getting but also picking out or making gifts for their friends, especially this year.
posted by trig at 12:50 PM on December 27, 2020 [9 favorites]
Anon, not answering your question - but if you think your kid would be entertained by Random MeFi Mail (Trademark) I’d be happy to send them a postcard or two or even a small stocking stuffer as a random mail surprise. If you’re interested maybe get the mods to message me with your address or just message me directly? I sympathize with 10 months of sitting around with only your immediate family.
posted by arnicae at 12:53 PM on December 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by arnicae at 12:53 PM on December 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
I had a similar weird thing happen with my kids this year. I talked with the kid who got left out and made clear to frame it, truthfully, as "That's strange, I bet it happened because of this non-malicious reason," and they seemed satisfied.
I do think you should acknowledge it to your son and I do think you should check with the grandparents that it wasn't that a gift got lost in the mail. I don't think you should buy them something and say it came from them; what's the point? It's okay for your son to know that some relatives are closer than other relatives, and also that some relatives kinda suck.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:00 PM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
I do think you should acknowledge it to your son and I do think you should check with the grandparents that it wasn't that a gift got lost in the mail. I don't think you should buy them something and say it came from them; what's the point? It's okay for your son to know that some relatives are closer than other relatives, and also that some relatives kinda suck.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:00 PM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
I think there are three things here.
One is your child's Christmas. Look, for all that I have raised my kids to focus on the living and not the gifts, the fact is that for most kids, not getting anything when other kids do is incredibly hurtful, which is why most families are sensitive to it. What I would want for my kids is parents that acknowledge the feelings, and support the child in moving forward. That was lousy! And maybe there are things to do together - build a massive New Year's Cookie Tower, create a Lego space scape, whatever, not sure of the age of the child - that can add to the joy and distract a little from this legitimate wound.
The second is your child's relationship to these grandparents. My parents are horrific gift givers but randomly, so sometimes they get it right but for example last year my then-8 year old got half coloured free colouring books from the 90s from them. This is because they are really - limited human beings. As my kids grow, they are learning that.
Sometimes I have thought I should have cut contact, and sometimes I think that it is really good that my kids are learning to navigate this stuff and ultimately - I don't know. But I do know that letting them have their feelings and talking about the reality of the situation from our point of view is where we are at as a family.
Ultimately - you can't fix the relationship; this is going to end up between your child and these people. If you enter into the discussion thinking you can repair it over This One Thing, I am here as the voice of experience to tell you they will just find a way to mess it up that you can't anticipate now.
The third is your relationship. And this is where I think you are speaking from when you say you have to say something. I don't think you can mitigate these individuals' choices from hurting your child by asking them nicely, because if they truly did not get your kid a gift and then had this Zoom-fest, they are really not redeemable.
But it might benefit you to just share with them how that felt for you, to watch your child be hurt, and how it makes you question their involvement in your child's life. So I personally would say, "dad, stepmom, can I share something with you? It was really awful to watch the other grandkids open gifts and then watch my child realize that he didn't have anything. It hurt him, and it hurt me. I don't really have a solution but I wanted to let you know."
I would keep your expectations low. Sometimes dynamics we accept everywhere else come through loud and clear with our kids, but the idea that they will change "for the children!!!" is often just a fantasy. If these people were capable of being sensitive and caring about this stuff, they would have demonstrated it before now.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:06 PM on December 27, 2020 [15 favorites]
One is your child's Christmas. Look, for all that I have raised my kids to focus on the living and not the gifts, the fact is that for most kids, not getting anything when other kids do is incredibly hurtful, which is why most families are sensitive to it. What I would want for my kids is parents that acknowledge the feelings, and support the child in moving forward. That was lousy! And maybe there are things to do together - build a massive New Year's Cookie Tower, create a Lego space scape, whatever, not sure of the age of the child - that can add to the joy and distract a little from this legitimate wound.
The second is your child's relationship to these grandparents. My parents are horrific gift givers but randomly, so sometimes they get it right but for example last year my then-8 year old got half coloured free colouring books from the 90s from them. This is because they are really - limited human beings. As my kids grow, they are learning that.
Sometimes I have thought I should have cut contact, and sometimes I think that it is really good that my kids are learning to navigate this stuff and ultimately - I don't know. But I do know that letting them have their feelings and talking about the reality of the situation from our point of view is where we are at as a family.
Ultimately - you can't fix the relationship; this is going to end up between your child and these people. If you enter into the discussion thinking you can repair it over This One Thing, I am here as the voice of experience to tell you they will just find a way to mess it up that you can't anticipate now.
The third is your relationship. And this is where I think you are speaking from when you say you have to say something. I don't think you can mitigate these individuals' choices from hurting your child by asking them nicely, because if they truly did not get your kid a gift and then had this Zoom-fest, they are really not redeemable.
But it might benefit you to just share with them how that felt for you, to watch your child be hurt, and how it makes you question their involvement in your child's life. So I personally would say, "dad, stepmom, can I share something with you? It was really awful to watch the other grandkids open gifts and then watch my child realize that he didn't have anything. It hurt him, and it hurt me. I don't really have a solution but I wanted to let you know."
I would keep your expectations low. Sometimes dynamics we accept everywhere else come through loud and clear with our kids, but the idea that they will change "for the children!!!" is often just a fantasy. If these people were capable of being sensitive and caring about this stuff, they would have demonstrated it before now.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:06 PM on December 27, 2020 [15 favorites]
see the reason I suggested directly asking, is that in my experience people who enjoy dishing out this sort of passive-aggressive stuff extremely do not enjoy being called out on it.
It's not about being acquisitive or entitled to gifts: that is not the point. The point is to convey to this lady that hurting your kid's feelings is not something she can do with impunity. If she does say "well we only got gifts for Horatio because your family couldn't be bothered to celebrate Christmas", that's your opening to be even more clear with her and tell her how petty and gross her behavior is.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:25 PM on December 27, 2020 [20 favorites]
It's not about being acquisitive or entitled to gifts: that is not the point. The point is to convey to this lady that hurting your kid's feelings is not something she can do with impunity. If she does say "well we only got gifts for Horatio because your family couldn't be bothered to celebrate Christmas", that's your opening to be even more clear with her and tell her how petty and gross her behavior is.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:25 PM on December 27, 2020 [20 favorites]
I wonder about the role of your step-brother or step-sister here - the parents of the grandchildren who got presents. They presumably noticed that your child did not have anything to show on the Zoom call. Could you check in with them about whether your father and step-mother said anything about getting or not getting your child a present? But this may be going around the houses too much - I agree with others that your own suggested scripts would work. I also agree that buying him something and pretending it is from them would not be a good idea.
I would also consider what you do if it does all blow up - if they take what you say as an excuse to cut contact or say foul things. Good to have a strategy for that too, in so far as you can.
posted by paduasoy at 1:38 PM on December 27, 2020
I would also consider what you do if it does all blow up - if they take what you say as an excuse to cut contact or say foul things. Good to have a strategy for that too, in so far as you can.
posted by paduasoy at 1:38 PM on December 27, 2020
Based on my experience, nothing you say or do will change your parents. Given this, the only solution is to remove oneself from the family drama.
Address your responses to the development of your child. Frame your child's emotional response. Gift giving isn't about equality or dessert. No one has to give a gift to anyone else. Nor should we expect something nor give something out of our own definition of convention.
It can be wonderful to give out of love and respect. What others give us is, at the very least, uncontrollable.
posted by tmdonahue at 2:00 PM on December 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
Address your responses to the development of your child. Frame your child's emotional response. Gift giving isn't about equality or dessert. No one has to give a gift to anyone else. Nor should we expect something nor give something out of our own definition of convention.
It can be wonderful to give out of love and respect. What others give us is, at the very least, uncontrollable.
posted by tmdonahue at 2:00 PM on December 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'm a bit surprised by some of the harsh reactions, especially around cutting contact over a gift that wasn't received 2 days ago! The dynamics of favoritism are obviously problematic, but as you say, you're not that bothered about that in particular. My very nice parents often give gifts to their grandkids who are close by because it is . . . convenient? And weird not to give them gifts when they see them at Christmas/on their birthday? It doesn't really bother me.
Yes, it would be nice if my kids got more gifts mailed to them but I know it's not malicious and that they love them very much (as it seems your parents love your children from the question.) Your parents have different views on COVID than you do and even though you are OBVIOUSLY 100 PERCENT RIGHT, it was also their right to choose differently. Would you feel the same way if it weren't for the Zoom call?
If something like this happened to me, I probably wouldn't say anything to my parents, but would say to my kid: oh you'll get your gifts when you see them, yada yada. Or maybe I'd tell my parents the kid was hurt and ask if they wanted me to pick up a present from them, or warn them that kiddo will be expecting something when they see them. But I would make even this low-key; it just doesn't seem to me worth the huge blow-up it could very reasonably lead to, unless I'm missing something.
posted by heavenknows at 2:01 PM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
Yes, it would be nice if my kids got more gifts mailed to them but I know it's not malicious and that they love them very much (as it seems your parents love your children from the question.) Your parents have different views on COVID than you do and even though you are OBVIOUSLY 100 PERCENT RIGHT, it was also their right to choose differently. Would you feel the same way if it weren't for the Zoom call?
If something like this happened to me, I probably wouldn't say anything to my parents, but would say to my kid: oh you'll get your gifts when you see them, yada yada. Or maybe I'd tell my parents the kid was hurt and ask if they wanted me to pick up a present from them, or warn them that kiddo will be expecting something when they see them. But I would make even this low-key; it just doesn't seem to me worth the huge blow-up it could very reasonably lead to, unless I'm missing something.
posted by heavenknows at 2:01 PM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
In re: postal issues, you could check with your fellow non-golden children to see if they or their kids got anything (particularly if one lives near enough to be less affected by multi-transfer postal issues.) This year in our family there was a lot of back-channel “Did you get something from my sister? Do you know if my gift for your cousin arrived?” even when everyone is on good terms. If they all did, it’s probably stuck in the mail. If they all didn’t, then you also have some folks to sound this out with who have all the awareness of dynamics that you do.
posted by tchemgrrl at 3:13 PM on December 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by tchemgrrl at 3:13 PM on December 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
You need a gentle way to tell them it was hurtful? They know it was hurtful, that was the point! Unless you can somehow establish that the gifts just haven’t turned up yet (unlikely or they would have asked about them during the call) this was intended to provoke a reaction from you or punish you for not spending Christmas with them.
The question really is what does your relationship with them look like going forward? Because your parents have now shown they’re malicious enough to hurt your child to prove a point to you. I have parents like this too and decided for myself that if I stood by and let them treat my child badly to hurt me while I did nothing for fear of not rocking the boat, not only were they terrible parents, they were ensuring I was too. I wouldn’t let that happen and so I’m no longer in contact with them. Life is much better. Mine was an escalating situation though and only you can decide what your line in the sand is.
posted by Jubey at 3:46 PM on December 27, 2020 [7 favorites]
The question really is what does your relationship with them look like going forward? Because your parents have now shown they’re malicious enough to hurt your child to prove a point to you. I have parents like this too and decided for myself that if I stood by and let them treat my child badly to hurt me while I did nothing for fear of not rocking the boat, not only were they terrible parents, they were ensuring I was too. I wouldn’t let that happen and so I’m no longer in contact with them. Life is much better. Mine was an escalating situation though and only you can decide what your line in the sand is.
posted by Jubey at 3:46 PM on December 27, 2020 [7 favorites]
I don't think you should cut contact over this or any other problem with your family that falls short of abuse. Internet culture is really weird about advising folks to cut people off/dtmfa/etc.
I would strongly encourage you to use your words and keep using your words even if/when they make it hard for you. Don't focus on taking care of their feelings - do make sure you express your feelings (calmly, kindly, firmly, and honestly). Please please please be forthright with them and say something like, "I was upset when my kid didn't have a present from you but your other grandchildren did. What's going on?" Listen to their answer. If they do not plan to send a late present, reiterate how hurt you are by this favoritism, and bring it up repeatedly in future conversations with them for as long as your hurt remains. Contrary to what you may believe, being honest and forthright about how you are feeling IS kindness in a relationship.
Or, if they do plan to send a late gift, graciously accept their fake-ass excuses and get on with it.
posted by MiraK at 3:53 PM on December 27, 2020 [12 favorites]
I would strongly encourage you to use your words and keep using your words even if/when they make it hard for you. Don't focus on taking care of their feelings - do make sure you express your feelings (calmly, kindly, firmly, and honestly). Please please please be forthright with them and say something like, "I was upset when my kid didn't have a present from you but your other grandchildren did. What's going on?" Listen to their answer. If they do not plan to send a late present, reiterate how hurt you are by this favoritism, and bring it up repeatedly in future conversations with them for as long as your hurt remains. Contrary to what you may believe, being honest and forthright about how you are feeling IS kindness in a relationship.
Or, if they do plan to send a late gift, graciously accept their fake-ass excuses and get on with it.
posted by MiraK at 3:53 PM on December 27, 2020 [12 favorites]
I don't think you should cut contact over this or any other problem with your family that falls short of abuse.
I would argue that this behavior IS lower case "a' abuse. Deliberately perpetrating an act of semi-public cruelty directed at grandchildren who have done nothing wrong as a way to punish the parents for taking reasonable safety precautions during a pandemic? If you wouldn't tolerate the behavior from a friend, there's NO REASON to tolerate it from family. You share some DNA with them. SO WHAT. As a parent, it's your job to be on your kid's side and protect them (or at least support them to mitigate harm) from people and situations like this.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:07 PM on December 27, 2020 [26 favorites]
I would argue that this behavior IS lower case "a' abuse. Deliberately perpetrating an act of semi-public cruelty directed at grandchildren who have done nothing wrong as a way to punish the parents for taking reasonable safety precautions during a pandemic? If you wouldn't tolerate the behavior from a friend, there's NO REASON to tolerate it from family. You share some DNA with them. SO WHAT. As a parent, it's your job to be on your kid's side and protect them (or at least support them to mitigate harm) from people and situations like this.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:07 PM on December 27, 2020 [26 favorites]
Mom and Dad are not boring. Mom and Dad are there, present, loving, and making all the hard choices so that lit'l anonymous can have the security and support they need in these trying times.
You do you.
Meanwhile, you are not supposed to parent your parents. If they had a brain fart about How To Do Holidays, just let the little one know that you and your S.O. are there for them and that this will be okay.
Adults can love people and have a really hard way of showing it.
Maybe another older adult can be "honorable grandparent" for them. My adult daughters have had these people in their lives (parents of their friends), and they treasure them.
Step back from having the conversation with your parents. It will not end the way you want it to. The goal would be for them not to repeat the bad behavior, but from the sound of it this is an ongoing issue of favoritism and thoughtless choices.
Do not buy "grandparent presents." Do not play referee. Just let your child know that you have all the love and support that they need, and the grandparents will provide... what is in their power to provide, if anything.
The grandchild/grandparent dynamic will change over time. It may be surprisingly good. Or it may be weird and chaotic and ultimately disappointing.
Be the constant.
posted by TrishaU at 4:15 PM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
You do you.
Meanwhile, you are not supposed to parent your parents. If they had a brain fart about How To Do Holidays, just let the little one know that you and your S.O. are there for them and that this will be okay.
Adults can love people and have a really hard way of showing it.
Maybe another older adult can be "honorable grandparent" for them. My adult daughters have had these people in their lives (parents of their friends), and they treasure them.
Step back from having the conversation with your parents. It will not end the way you want it to. The goal would be for them not to repeat the bad behavior, but from the sound of it this is an ongoing issue of favoritism and thoughtless choices.
Do not buy "grandparent presents." Do not play referee. Just let your child know that you have all the love and support that they need, and the grandparents will provide... what is in their power to provide, if anything.
The grandchild/grandparent dynamic will change over time. It may be surprisingly good. Or it may be weird and chaotic and ultimately disappointing.
Be the constant.
posted by TrishaU at 4:15 PM on December 27, 2020 [5 favorites]
My reasoning for saying don't cut them off, be forthright instead is, people's actions aren't divided into "acceptable" vs. "abusive". IMO this act is unacceptable yet not-abusive... And if you speak up to make your feelings quite blunt and clear about it, OP, that would strongly discourage this type of occasional meanness from becoming a pattern of potentially more serious abuse. If it doesn't discourage them, and this does become a pattern that causes harm to your/your kids' wellbeing, you can always choose to cut them off then.
Apart from anything else, I see this as an opportunity for you to model open, direct communication in difficult circumstances for your kids. It's an invaluable life skill. My own life has been enormously enriched by the practice of direct communication in place of cutting people off. There are too many inherent rewards in having a wide network of connections (however loose) to toss non-dangerous people out of your life!
You're never going to be able to love your parents like "normal" families do, and they've proven they'll never love you like proper parents ought to.... This is sad. I'm sure you have a ton of grief and anger to process about this.
But that's separate from the question of whether to cut them out of your life. I've learned from experience that even a weird-ass halfway relationship with only a little trust can nevertheless be a functional relationship that brings joy (and presents!), and, you know, would act as a safety net in case of emergency. People whose worst crime is withholding a present at Christmas can still be capable of making you smile with an anecdote at dinner or holding your hand in an ambulance. 🤷 Assholes are not (necessarily) utterly worthless as people! We only hurt ourselves when we cut off from people who do not pose a danger to us.
posted by MiraK at 4:31 PM on December 27, 2020 [7 favorites]
Apart from anything else, I see this as an opportunity for you to model open, direct communication in difficult circumstances for your kids. It's an invaluable life skill. My own life has been enormously enriched by the practice of direct communication in place of cutting people off. There are too many inherent rewards in having a wide network of connections (however loose) to toss non-dangerous people out of your life!
You're never going to be able to love your parents like "normal" families do, and they've proven they'll never love you like proper parents ought to.... This is sad. I'm sure you have a ton of grief and anger to process about this.
But that's separate from the question of whether to cut them out of your life. I've learned from experience that even a weird-ass halfway relationship with only a little trust can nevertheless be a functional relationship that brings joy (and presents!), and, you know, would act as a safety net in case of emergency. People whose worst crime is withholding a present at Christmas can still be capable of making you smile with an anecdote at dinner or holding your hand in an ambulance. 🤷 Assholes are not (necessarily) utterly worthless as people! We only hurt ourselves when we cut off from people who do not pose a danger to us.
posted by MiraK at 4:31 PM on December 27, 2020 [7 favorites]
You should be working on protecting your kids from people who would use them as pawns in their shitty power game
I agree with brainmouse but I would actually tell them this.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 4:45 PM on December 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
I agree with brainmouse but I would actually tell them this.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 4:45 PM on December 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
We only hurt ourselves when we cut off from people who do not pose a danger to us.
Well...I’ve shared this before but it’s been a while. My parents are...not great. My dad kind of is but scared of my mum and my mum quit family therapy, which I was paying for as a 20 yr old after my sister attempted suicide, and the family therapist told us my mum most likely suffers from NPD. And she does. Suffer. And as an adult she can treat me badly but she can’t abuse me. And so I did and have continued a relationship for the good of the family including my kids. And my parents are weird inconsistent grandparents and we have had to really supervise their access. Because they have no filter or sense of what’s normal or appropriate.
And...I cannot say it’s been the worst but it hadn’t been great. In particular, my oldest child really struggles with how my parents treat me. And it has caused him some distress. So just as a counterpoint...when you allow dysfunction, it’s dysfunctional. It has not been “cute” for my kids to get garbage, literal crumbling garbage, as gifts. It’s not a capital offence or anything but it becomes one more lousy experience on a plate of them, and while I can’t control 4th grade dynamics I have knowingly let this toxicity into our lives. This year, I am soft on my parents - they have been good citizens (my mum is freaky about germs) and generally fine. But other years no. I will have to wait to hear from my kids about their thoughts as adults.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:04 PM on December 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
Well...I’ve shared this before but it’s been a while. My parents are...not great. My dad kind of is but scared of my mum and my mum quit family therapy, which I was paying for as a 20 yr old after my sister attempted suicide, and the family therapist told us my mum most likely suffers from NPD. And she does. Suffer. And as an adult she can treat me badly but she can’t abuse me. And so I did and have continued a relationship for the good of the family including my kids. And my parents are weird inconsistent grandparents and we have had to really supervise their access. Because they have no filter or sense of what’s normal or appropriate.
And...I cannot say it’s been the worst but it hadn’t been great. In particular, my oldest child really struggles with how my parents treat me. And it has caused him some distress. So just as a counterpoint...when you allow dysfunction, it’s dysfunctional. It has not been “cute” for my kids to get garbage, literal crumbling garbage, as gifts. It’s not a capital offence or anything but it becomes one more lousy experience on a plate of them, and while I can’t control 4th grade dynamics I have knowingly let this toxicity into our lives. This year, I am soft on my parents - they have been good citizens (my mum is freaky about germs) and generally fine. But other years no. I will have to wait to hear from my kids about their thoughts as adults.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:04 PM on December 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
This reminds me of the time I was at my friend's house and her parents dropped by. They had gifts for the kids, gave a random photo to her husband and a Nylabone for the dog. And nothing for their own daughter. I was sitting there going, "Am I the only one who noticed this?" This is because her parents are shitheads who don't like her and she is the black sheep because she wasn't born with a penis like they wanted.
I don't see any point in talking to them. Deliberate jerks are deliberate jerks. I'm sure if they'd cared enough to send ANYTHING they would have mentioned it or asked about the mail. They clearly DID NOT. Fuck these fucking fucks. Don't even bother. They wanted to hurt you and they wanted to hurt a child. I mean, I guess you could try calling them out if you like, but do you honestly think they'll care? Send a late gift? Apologize? Do better next year? You know them better than we do, how do you think they'll react? It sounds like they've been shitty in general for awhile now as is.
"my kid really loves you, and you're his grandparents, and it would really be nice to show him how much you care for him on a major holiday."
Unfortunately, they DID show him how much they care for him. He was born to the wrong kid (you), so who cares about him?
What I would say to you is that you need to figure out what to say to your kid, who you don't specify the age of but he definitely sounds old enough to have figured out the slight. I don't think it benefits anybody to lie to the kid and pretend that Grandma and Grandpa love him just as much as the favorite's kids. Obviously he figured out the truth this Christmas. Every kid who's not the favorite figures it out and has to learn how to deal with that, like you did. Your kid is going to need to learn to lower his expectations of these people and unfortunately realize that just because they're faaaaamily doesn't mean they are guaranteed to love him, even though they fucking well should because isn't family supposed to do that?
Anyway. You've lived through this experience already--what would you have wanted to be told about your stepmom's behavior at that age? What would have helped you accept that sometimes your family doesn't really love you and life's not fair, and to lower your expectations and learn not to care at slights? Focus on that, not "the right way" to tell shitty grandparents not to be shitty. They made their choices and odds are pretty high they'll be shits again next year or in future years. You can't make them behave--all you can do is help your kid deal with their behavior.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:14 PM on December 27, 2020 [8 favorites]
I don't see any point in talking to them. Deliberate jerks are deliberate jerks. I'm sure if they'd cared enough to send ANYTHING they would have mentioned it or asked about the mail. They clearly DID NOT. Fuck these fucking fucks. Don't even bother. They wanted to hurt you and they wanted to hurt a child. I mean, I guess you could try calling them out if you like, but do you honestly think they'll care? Send a late gift? Apologize? Do better next year? You know them better than we do, how do you think they'll react? It sounds like they've been shitty in general for awhile now as is.
"my kid really loves you, and you're his grandparents, and it would really be nice to show him how much you care for him on a major holiday."
Unfortunately, they DID show him how much they care for him. He was born to the wrong kid (you), so who cares about him?
What I would say to you is that you need to figure out what to say to your kid, who you don't specify the age of but he definitely sounds old enough to have figured out the slight. I don't think it benefits anybody to lie to the kid and pretend that Grandma and Grandpa love him just as much as the favorite's kids. Obviously he figured out the truth this Christmas. Every kid who's not the favorite figures it out and has to learn how to deal with that, like you did. Your kid is going to need to learn to lower his expectations of these people and unfortunately realize that just because they're faaaaamily doesn't mean they are guaranteed to love him, even though they fucking well should because isn't family supposed to do that?
Anyway. You've lived through this experience already--what would you have wanted to be told about your stepmom's behavior at that age? What would have helped you accept that sometimes your family doesn't really love you and life's not fair, and to lower your expectations and learn not to care at slights? Focus on that, not "the right way" to tell shitty grandparents not to be shitty. They made their choices and odds are pretty high they'll be shits again next year or in future years. You can't make them behave--all you can do is help your kid deal with their behavior.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:14 PM on December 27, 2020 [8 favorites]
Be kindly honest with your child and reassure them it had nothing to do with their worth or behaviour. Make sure they understand this is a grandparent thing that is about adults behaving badly and for dumb dumb reasons. That's really all you can do.
Bad treatment of my kids is a major reason I cut contact entirely and severely limited contact with grandparents. They're adults and they can make choices that don't hurt children. If they can't, then they don't get to continue hurting them because of 'family'.
I don't regret the decision, based on how they continue to act to other family members still involved closely with them.
This sounds like something bubbling up that has just come to the boil over the Christmas issue. I'd give yourself a month to think over it, maybe talk to a professional if you need a sounding board and consider low-contact for a while. You don't have to explain to them. But your child needs to know it's not their fault or responsibility.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:20 PM on December 27, 2020 [12 favorites]
Bad treatment of my kids is a major reason I cut contact entirely and severely limited contact with grandparents. They're adults and they can make choices that don't hurt children. If they can't, then they don't get to continue hurting them because of 'family'.
I don't regret the decision, based on how they continue to act to other family members still involved closely with them.
This sounds like something bubbling up that has just come to the boil over the Christmas issue. I'd give yourself a month to think over it, maybe talk to a professional if you need a sounding board and consider low-contact for a while. You don't have to explain to them. But your child needs to know it's not their fault or responsibility.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:20 PM on December 27, 2020 [12 favorites]
Your child is the one hurt. Your child is the one you want to protect. I would consider sending him something and signing it from the Grandparents. You can step in at that point and tell him it must have been delayed in the mail.
Then, have them write a thank you note to the grandparents and include a picture of them playing with the gift.
If this does not force a phone call to you asking wtf, then you know for sure that it was spiteful. It also eliminates the good feelings they were giving themselves for shafting the cousins. If they are crass and mean enough to tell him it was not them, then you confirm how mean they are and write them off or out of your life. IMHO, no grandparent is better than a mean spiteful grandparent.
posted by AugustWest at 5:47 PM on December 27, 2020
Then, have them write a thank you note to the grandparents and include a picture of them playing with the gift.
If this does not force a phone call to you asking wtf, then you know for sure that it was spiteful. It also eliminates the good feelings they were giving themselves for shafting the cousins. If they are crass and mean enough to tell him it was not them, then you confirm how mean they are and write them off or out of your life. IMHO, no grandparent is better than a mean spiteful grandparent.
posted by AugustWest at 5:47 PM on December 27, 2020
I think it's a valuable lesson to kids of any age that family doesn't always mean friends. You can choose your friends, but your birth family is just a crapshoot. Choose the good people and reward them with your time and don't let the bad ones wreck your day/life.
Then introduce the idea of "family of choice" in that once you find the people who mean the most to you, and who you mean the most to, those people are your real family whether or not they're related by blood.
Kids aren't stupid, kids aren't naive, and kids can take social truths as long as you don't try and varnish it or cover it up, which can just lead to another generation of fucked up mis-behaving people. You'll be doing your kids a huge favour, and getting them a leg up on the shitty shitty adult world, if you don't try to pretend some people aren't worth their time and attention.
Just be kind about it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:10 PM on December 27, 2020 [10 favorites]
Then introduce the idea of "family of choice" in that once you find the people who mean the most to you, and who you mean the most to, those people are your real family whether or not they're related by blood.
Kids aren't stupid, kids aren't naive, and kids can take social truths as long as you don't try and varnish it or cover it up, which can just lead to another generation of fucked up mis-behaving people. You'll be doing your kids a huge favour, and getting them a leg up on the shitty shitty adult world, if you don't try to pretend some people aren't worth their time and attention.
Just be kind about it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:10 PM on December 27, 2020 [10 favorites]
Also I don’t want to pile on but my husband just reminded me - one year we worked, then drove 5.5 hrs to my niece and nephews’ and arrived at 10 pm Xmas Eve to discover my SIL’s new boyfriend’s 2 kids were coming Xmas day. So we found a 24 hr drugstore 30 min away, drove there at 11:30 in snow, found right-aged books and wrapping paper, and got them under the tree. It was not a time we were flush with cash and it felt stressful but...kids. It doesn’t have to be even, but something to open vs. nothing or little to open isn’t fun.
On Zoom all it would take would be “our gift to you is coming!” and then a later delivery.
I am not a great gift giver in either sense of the word great so if I got that I think it’s not a fine point of etiquette or anything.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:23 PM on December 27, 2020 [9 favorites]
On Zoom all it would take would be “our gift to you is coming!” and then a later delivery.
I am not a great gift giver in either sense of the word great so if I got that I think it’s not a fine point of etiquette or anything.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:23 PM on December 27, 2020 [9 favorites]
You'll be doing your kids a huge favour, and getting them a leg up on the shitty shitty adult world, if you don't try to pretend some people aren't worth their time and attention.
This times a million. My parents tried for many years, in vain, to convince us that family is of utmost importance, and family loyalty is the only thing that we can ever count on for certain. For my sister and me, it felt like attempted brainwashing or gaslighting. Because our aunts and uncles on both sides of the family ranged from lukewarmly benign to outright shitty assholes.
All my parents did was damage their own credibility in our eyes. How could they be so blind to that dysfunction? How could they have so little self-awareness of their own roles that they played in it? My dad especially kept allowing one of our shitty asshole uncles back in to keep causing more hurt and driving a wedge between my mom and the rest of the family. I still don't forgive my dad for doing that. It severely damaged our trust in him.
Kids don't need to be sheltered with lies and obfuscation. Kids need to know that their parents are capable of both identifying harmful people and standing up to them in their children's best interests.
posted by keep it under cover at 7:40 PM on December 27, 2020 [15 favorites]
This times a million. My parents tried for many years, in vain, to convince us that family is of utmost importance, and family loyalty is the only thing that we can ever count on for certain. For my sister and me, it felt like attempted brainwashing or gaslighting. Because our aunts and uncles on both sides of the family ranged from lukewarmly benign to outright shitty assholes.
All my parents did was damage their own credibility in our eyes. How could they be so blind to that dysfunction? How could they have so little self-awareness of their own roles that they played in it? My dad especially kept allowing one of our shitty asshole uncles back in to keep causing more hurt and driving a wedge between my mom and the rest of the family. I still don't forgive my dad for doing that. It severely damaged our trust in him.
Kids don't need to be sheltered with lies and obfuscation. Kids need to know that their parents are capable of both identifying harmful people and standing up to them in their children's best interests.
posted by keep it under cover at 7:40 PM on December 27, 2020 [15 favorites]
I would center your response around your kid, but specifically I would advise against "papering it over" by buying a gift and saying it was from the grandparents. If your kid is socially aware enough to notice -- and we typically underestimate what they notice -- that the Zoom display seems rather like a deliberate move (as others have said, if a present was in the mail wouldn't they ask if it was delayed?), please don't lie to them!
Trying to protect your kid that way can lead to a bad outcome: then trusting their own senses and learning that they can't trust their parent to talk about reality. Or a worse outcome: losing trust in their own senses, and accepting bad behavior because they've suppressed their ability to see it head-on. Hurt is bad but those are both much worse and longer-lasting.
posted by away for regrooving at 10:04 PM on December 27, 2020 [11 favorites]
Trying to protect your kid that way can lead to a bad outcome: then trusting their own senses and learning that they can't trust their parent to talk about reality. Or a worse outcome: losing trust in their own senses, and accepting bad behavior because they've suppressed their ability to see it head-on. Hurt is bad but those are both much worse and longer-lasting.
posted by away for regrooving at 10:04 PM on December 27, 2020 [11 favorites]
Your specific response depends heavily on your kid's age and social skills, which we don't know and you do. Generally... I'd try to open a conversation about how the kid felt, listen, and then I might say I wish I (not putting words in your mouth but as how I imagine myself in a situation) had said "look, doesn't seem fair to be displaying the different presents" during the Zoom call, but (hypothetically) I was nervous about speaking up and getting people upset, and afterwards I had to face that Kid was already being actively hurt.
I might wonder aloud about other adults' reasons for their actions and non-actions, staying to what seems plausible and not tendentious in any directions. If the grandparents seem to be acting out "Covid can't beat Christmas" with Favorite Child. Or conversely if you have noticed the grandparents don't do not-in-person presents. Leaving space for Kid's theories. I'm not from a favorites family so I'll defer to those who are, but I think while I wouldn't push your own history into this, I wouldn't shy away from it either, if your kid may have noticed present effects. You don't want to model for your kid an erasure of your own awareness of negative social actions.
Depending, I might wonder if Kid had thoughts about speaking about the unfairness during the Zoom, and assure them that you would be deeply proud and back them up 100%, if and only if you can 200% commit to following through on that. (The backing up, you could be deeply proud regardless of human limitations you might be working with.)
posted by away for regrooving at 10:07 PM on December 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
I might wonder aloud about other adults' reasons for their actions and non-actions, staying to what seems plausible and not tendentious in any directions. If the grandparents seem to be acting out "Covid can't beat Christmas" with Favorite Child. Or conversely if you have noticed the grandparents don't do not-in-person presents. Leaving space for Kid's theories. I'm not from a favorites family so I'll defer to those who are, but I think while I wouldn't push your own history into this, I wouldn't shy away from it either, if your kid may have noticed present effects. You don't want to model for your kid an erasure of your own awareness of negative social actions.
Depending, I might wonder if Kid had thoughts about speaking about the unfairness during the Zoom, and assure them that you would be deeply proud and back them up 100%, if and only if you can 200% commit to following through on that. (The backing up, you could be deeply proud regardless of human limitations you might be working with.)
posted by away for regrooving at 10:07 PM on December 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
Please demonstrate for your child that it is okay to set hard boundaries against people who do not treat us well or fairly.
Please.
There is no more valuable certainty to give a child.
Please.
posted by WaywardPlane at 3:32 AM on December 28, 2020 [18 favorites]
Please.
There is no more valuable certainty to give a child.
Please.
posted by WaywardPlane at 3:32 AM on December 28, 2020 [18 favorites]
The kids who got the presents are also being hurt by your parents openly displaying their favoritism. If you go the route of talking to your parents, as opposed to just giving up, you might throw that in.
If you go the talking route, you might just tell them it was hurtful for your child, and just ask them why they did it. This flagrant favoritism has been happening all of your lives. Just ask them, what are they getting out of intentionally hurting children?
I bet no one has ever asked them this. Part of the toxic dynamic in your family is that as kids you were powerless to point out the hurtfulness of the obvious favoritism. You are an adult now. You can state the behavior, state why it is hurtful, and ask them why they intentionally hurt your child. A question can be disarming and cause them to actually think about it.
But probably not. Then when they lie, deny, minimize and blame the victim, as they likely will, you will know it is time to set the hard boundary to protect your child. “You have acted in a hurtful way, intentionally, again, by showing that you think some children are less worthy of love/kindness/attention than others. I am not going to let my child experience the same hurt and dismay I have experienced my whole life. You will be allowed no further contact with my child unless I can be certain you understand how harmful your ostentatious favoritism has been to all involved, including the favorites, and will act properly.” If that means the grandparents have no contact with your kid, so be it. Better some “chosen grandparents” than the mean ones they were born with.
posted by KayQuestions at 5:14 AM on December 28, 2020 [4 favorites]
If you go the talking route, you might just tell them it was hurtful for your child, and just ask them why they did it. This flagrant favoritism has been happening all of your lives. Just ask them, what are they getting out of intentionally hurting children?
I bet no one has ever asked them this. Part of the toxic dynamic in your family is that as kids you were powerless to point out the hurtfulness of the obvious favoritism. You are an adult now. You can state the behavior, state why it is hurtful, and ask them why they intentionally hurt your child. A question can be disarming and cause them to actually think about it.
But probably not. Then when they lie, deny, minimize and blame the victim, as they likely will, you will know it is time to set the hard boundary to protect your child. “You have acted in a hurtful way, intentionally, again, by showing that you think some children are less worthy of love/kindness/attention than others. I am not going to let my child experience the same hurt and dismay I have experienced my whole life. You will be allowed no further contact with my child unless I can be certain you understand how harmful your ostentatious favoritism has been to all involved, including the favorites, and will act properly.” If that means the grandparents have no contact with your kid, so be it. Better some “chosen grandparents” than the mean ones they were born with.
posted by KayQuestions at 5:14 AM on December 28, 2020 [4 favorites]
Wow, there are certainly many layers to this question and a lot of answers will require assumptions, many of which will be based as much upon the answerer's own history and personal experience as anything else. Only you know the entire story.
However, based on what I've read here, this is what I think I might do if I were in your shoes:
-ask your parents if they did in fact deliberately not send your kid a gift. There's enough doubt about reliability of mail services etc that it is possible something got lost or delayed along the way. It's also possible that they intend to give him something when they are home. Although I agree with others that they should have said something about it during the Zoom call (if not before) if that were the case, sometimes people freeze in the moment and make dumb decisions. This is especially true if there is other tension in the group.
-if they say that something is on the way, explain that Kid was hurt during the call, and offer them the chance to talk to him and explain what happened. I'd do this and allow them to save face even if I didn't believe that they did originally intend to give a gift, although that would definitely affect the way I calibrated the relationship going forward. Asking them to talk directly to Kid is another way of holding them accountable.
-if they say that they deliberately did not send a gift and offer some kind of self-righteous justification, I'd say something along the lines of "well if your goal was to hurt Kid, congratulations, you succeeded. If your goal was to manipulate me into a certain course of action, it did not and will not work. We all know this is not about material things. It's my job to protect Kid from that kind of cruelty and clearly you cannot be relied upon to be kind to him." I'd then limit contact with them going forward, and see what steps--if any-- they take to try to rebuild the relationship.
If your parents did in fact leave Kid out of the gift-giving in order to manipulate you, they are showing you who they are, i.e. people who are willing to hurt a child to get their way. Although I can understand that you might not want to cut them off completely, you are leaving Kid open to more hurt if you don't find ways to protect him and mitigate the effects of that behaviour.
posted by rpfields at 10:04 AM on December 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
However, based on what I've read here, this is what I think I might do if I were in your shoes:
-ask your parents if they did in fact deliberately not send your kid a gift. There's enough doubt about reliability of mail services etc that it is possible something got lost or delayed along the way. It's also possible that they intend to give him something when they are home. Although I agree with others that they should have said something about it during the Zoom call (if not before) if that were the case, sometimes people freeze in the moment and make dumb decisions. This is especially true if there is other tension in the group.
-if they say that something is on the way, explain that Kid was hurt during the call, and offer them the chance to talk to him and explain what happened. I'd do this and allow them to save face even if I didn't believe that they did originally intend to give a gift, although that would definitely affect the way I calibrated the relationship going forward. Asking them to talk directly to Kid is another way of holding them accountable.
-if they say that they deliberately did not send a gift and offer some kind of self-righteous justification, I'd say something along the lines of "well if your goal was to hurt Kid, congratulations, you succeeded. If your goal was to manipulate me into a certain course of action, it did not and will not work. We all know this is not about material things. It's my job to protect Kid from that kind of cruelty and clearly you cannot be relied upon to be kind to him." I'd then limit contact with them going forward, and see what steps--if any-- they take to try to rebuild the relationship.
If your parents did in fact leave Kid out of the gift-giving in order to manipulate you, they are showing you who they are, i.e. people who are willing to hurt a child to get their way. Although I can understand that you might not want to cut them off completely, you are leaving Kid open to more hurt if you don't find ways to protect him and mitigate the effects of that behaviour.
posted by rpfields at 10:04 AM on December 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
I think the Covid situation /and the issues with the mail/ situation are making this a weird year for gift giving and you should definitely check.
My daughter /is/ the favorite (and only) grandchild, in ordinary years she’s been spoiled with quite the gift. This year, we got mail gifts from my parent who believes in Covid and zero gifts from my parent who does not (they are divorced) for anyone in my household. When I talked to the non gift giving parent, they said “I have your presents here for when you visit, you know We Can’t Trust The Mail.”
I’m not sure this is what’s happening for you, but the situation is weird enough that I would check.
posted by corb at 10:14 AM on December 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
My daughter /is/ the favorite (and only) grandchild, in ordinary years she’s been spoiled with quite the gift. This year, we got mail gifts from my parent who believes in Covid and zero gifts from my parent who does not (they are divorced) for anyone in my household. When I talked to the non gift giving parent, they said “I have your presents here for when you visit, you know We Can’t Trust The Mail.”
I’m not sure this is what’s happening for you, but the situation is weird enough that I would check.
posted by corb at 10:14 AM on December 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
We only hurt ourselves when we cut off from people who do not pose a danger to us.
Teaching kids they must tolerate cruel treatment is dangerous.
posted by counterfeitfake at 11:01 AM on December 28, 2020 [11 favorites]
Teaching kids they must tolerate cruel treatment is dangerous.
posted by counterfeitfake at 11:01 AM on December 28, 2020 [11 favorites]
You probably know this, but no matter how well you word this, it's going to be tough because it's about some underlying tough stuff. You can't say things perfectly and have it go well. I find it helps to acknowledge this and to go in without false expectations. I'm sorry, this sounds unpleasant. The good news is that you can help buffer your kid by either cutting off contact or talking about it in a certain way. When COVID first appeared, I heard a child psychologist on the radio talk about how kids' experience will be largely influenced by their parents' emotional reaction and ongoing state. That struck me as applicable to a lot of things, maybe this included.
posted by slidell at 12:51 PM on December 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by slidell at 12:51 PM on December 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
What a vile and disgusting way to treat all of you and your child. Sneaky, covert abusers like these are some of the hardest to deal with. They really strategized this one brilliantly here, too, with so much 2020-tastic plausible deniability, but the history of their actions here suggests this wasn’t some one-off mail snafu.
This was abuse. Full stop. Just because it doesn’t rise to the level of a reportable crime or whatever doesn’t mean it’s not harmful, or not abuse, or anyone saying it was abuse is a childish internet user or whatever.
We teach people how to treat us and our children. I cut off contact with family members who treat me and my kids shitty. With a swift block and delete. They know what they did. A conversation would only lead to bullshit, gaslighting, blameshifting, and the like — it’s what abusers do. They pick the time and place and love to try to ruin holidays. Sorry you had to experience this. Nobody deserves to be abused and then told it wasn’t really abuse. In any capacity.
posted by edithkeeler at 5:31 PM on December 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
This was abuse. Full stop. Just because it doesn’t rise to the level of a reportable crime or whatever doesn’t mean it’s not harmful, or not abuse, or anyone saying it was abuse is a childish internet user or whatever.
We teach people how to treat us and our children. I cut off contact with family members who treat me and my kids shitty. With a swift block and delete. They know what they did. A conversation would only lead to bullshit, gaslighting, blameshifting, and the like — it’s what abusers do. They pick the time and place and love to try to ruin holidays. Sorry you had to experience this. Nobody deserves to be abused and then told it wasn’t really abuse. In any capacity.
posted by edithkeeler at 5:31 PM on December 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would consider sending him something and signing it from the Grandparents. You can step in at that point and tell him it must have been delayed in the mail.
Then, have them write a thank you note to the grandparents and include a picture of them playing with the gift.
Do not do this. They will immediately take this to mean that you will always "come to the rescue" to make them look good with your kid. Just what they want.
posted by tzikeh at 1:25 PM on January 1, 2021
Then, have them write a thank you note to the grandparents and include a picture of them playing with the gift.
Do not do this. They will immediately take this to mean that you will always "come to the rescue" to make them look good with your kid. Just what they want.
posted by tzikeh at 1:25 PM on January 1, 2021
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posted by Alterscape at 10:12 AM on December 27, 2020 [27 favorites]