stuff is hard! also, boundaries!
December 7, 2020 2:58 PM Subscribe
BossFilter: How do I deal with an (understandably burnt-out) boss who struggles to organize and strategize our work, and also dumps on us emotionally constantly?
Two quick things to start:
1. I feel really grateful to have solid employment during this stretch, and so please interpret my complaints here as "trying to do my own anxiety/exhaustion harm reduction" here more than "need to GTFO!"
2. My boss is a good person in lots of the ways that matter, so I'm not trying to make judgments about the core of their being! We're all trying!
OK, so I've been at this job about eighteen months. Our team does internal education (both direct instruction and program building). The entire mandate of the team is kinda weird due to a number of institutional factors. At its best, we make some really rewarding stuff happen with our collaborators that benefits workers and builds trust, yay! And its worst, we are spinning our wheels in a leadership chain with no vision or strategy in place, and constantly running the risk of essentially being an internal vanity project, bah!
I've grown more and more fixated and frustrated on how my boss influences our work. They don't have any management experience in the past, and they are very aware they have some skills to build here -- they are constantly trying out new organization systems, holding a retreat, asking for feedback, etc. So, they get that they're in a tough spot. But the frustrating thing is they keep flitting from thing to thing and openly express dismay at our projects ("none of our work is really essential in any way", "that project [that I worked very hard on and consider a great success that wasn't built on in the future!] was a failure," "I'm feeling stuck with imposter syndrome", etc.) Furthermore, most meetings and interactions turn into support sessions for their (very real and tough sounding!) conflicts -- they lead with "I want to make a more empathetic and supportive space for all of us," and I'm very into being supportive of my friends and communities and being emotionally open!! The problem is that my boss doesn't really acknowledge the power differential - that we HAVE to perform a certain reaction bc of the situation, at least it feels like that - and it's made me sort of close off and become resentful of things they share, in this and other settings. I know they've been having a real hard go of it emotionally during COVID times and I feel for that struggle -- shit sucks and we're all doing our best! But I find it really dispiriting that we have to essentially live inside of the avoidance and strategic missed-opportunities that they make upstream, and I've learned there's a limit to how much I can push.
I think interpersonally I feel an added element of frustration because they reacted badly to a personal identity change I went thru - they made it about themselves (as in, you're leaving Our Identity In-Group) and were actually the only person who reacted somewhere along the shitty spectrum in my workplace, which was surprising. Before this happened, they were really invested in my work and sought my advice about things often - and it's in this context that I was able to help nudge along some strategic stuff I feel *needs* to happen, and do so collaboratively. After this happened, they started acting more distant and potentially even threatened by me??, they hired a new employee who they have worked with more closely, etc. I don't think about this day to day necessarily, but it's an important piece of context potentially. They HAVE done some very supportive things to my career, and so it's not just black and white here. But, yeah.
So I guess the tl;dr: here are these questions:
1. How do you deal with a leader who isn't currently that willing/able to make strategic decisions and instead downplays your team's work as not meaningful?
2. How do you set boundaries when somebody is for-real struggling and looking for support during this time, and you want to Be Real and not be beholden to professionalism, but that's... your boss?
3. Is there anything I can do to protect my headspace here? The team is hiring and will DOUBLE in a couple months, and it stresses me out!! I feel like either it will get better with more bandwidth or... these issues will really spiral. I don't want to fixate on those problems and future issues, especially because my primary goal right now is just... stable... employment.... any recommendations?
Thank you all!!
Two quick things to start:
1. I feel really grateful to have solid employment during this stretch, and so please interpret my complaints here as "trying to do my own anxiety/exhaustion harm reduction" here more than "need to GTFO!"
2. My boss is a good person in lots of the ways that matter, so I'm not trying to make judgments about the core of their being! We're all trying!
OK, so I've been at this job about eighteen months. Our team does internal education (both direct instruction and program building). The entire mandate of the team is kinda weird due to a number of institutional factors. At its best, we make some really rewarding stuff happen with our collaborators that benefits workers and builds trust, yay! And its worst, we are spinning our wheels in a leadership chain with no vision or strategy in place, and constantly running the risk of essentially being an internal vanity project, bah!
I've grown more and more fixated and frustrated on how my boss influences our work. They don't have any management experience in the past, and they are very aware they have some skills to build here -- they are constantly trying out new organization systems, holding a retreat, asking for feedback, etc. So, they get that they're in a tough spot. But the frustrating thing is they keep flitting from thing to thing and openly express dismay at our projects ("none of our work is really essential in any way", "that project [that I worked very hard on and consider a great success that wasn't built on in the future!] was a failure," "I'm feeling stuck with imposter syndrome", etc.) Furthermore, most meetings and interactions turn into support sessions for their (very real and tough sounding!) conflicts -- they lead with "I want to make a more empathetic and supportive space for all of us," and I'm very into being supportive of my friends and communities and being emotionally open!! The problem is that my boss doesn't really acknowledge the power differential - that we HAVE to perform a certain reaction bc of the situation, at least it feels like that - and it's made me sort of close off and become resentful of things they share, in this and other settings. I know they've been having a real hard go of it emotionally during COVID times and I feel for that struggle -- shit sucks and we're all doing our best! But I find it really dispiriting that we have to essentially live inside of the avoidance and strategic missed-opportunities that they make upstream, and I've learned there's a limit to how much I can push.
I think interpersonally I feel an added element of frustration because they reacted badly to a personal identity change I went thru - they made it about themselves (as in, you're leaving Our Identity In-Group) and were actually the only person who reacted somewhere along the shitty spectrum in my workplace, which was surprising. Before this happened, they were really invested in my work and sought my advice about things often - and it's in this context that I was able to help nudge along some strategic stuff I feel *needs* to happen, and do so collaboratively. After this happened, they started acting more distant and potentially even threatened by me??, they hired a new employee who they have worked with more closely, etc. I don't think about this day to day necessarily, but it's an important piece of context potentially. They HAVE done some very supportive things to my career, and so it's not just black and white here. But, yeah.
So I guess the tl;dr: here are these questions:
1. How do you deal with a leader who isn't currently that willing/able to make strategic decisions and instead downplays your team's work as not meaningful?
2. How do you set boundaries when somebody is for-real struggling and looking for support during this time, and you want to Be Real and not be beholden to professionalism, but that's... your boss?
3. Is there anything I can do to protect my headspace here? The team is hiring and will DOUBLE in a couple months, and it stresses me out!! I feel like either it will get better with more bandwidth or... these issues will really spiral. I don't want to fixate on those problems and future issues, especially because my primary goal right now is just... stable... employment.... any recommendations?
Thank you all!!
Best answer: Is there anyone else you can talk to? Either your bosses boss, or possibly a peer that you both trust. It sounds like they are using their team for support when they should be getting support from their peer network or line manager instead. Their boss may be able to intervene, and a peer may be able to say things that you're not able to.
In terms of protecting your own headspace, use your own peer support, stick to whatever version of your hours is reasonable, make sure to decompress at the end of the day, and try to not to get overly invested in a specific outcome. Believe that your own work is useful or contributes something - if that means thinking about how you would spin this situation as an answer in a future job interview or how you'll explain $great_project to one of the new starters, rather than feeling that it has intrinsic value, so be it.
posted by plonkee at 3:14 PM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
In terms of protecting your own headspace, use your own peer support, stick to whatever version of your hours is reasonable, make sure to decompress at the end of the day, and try to not to get overly invested in a specific outcome. Believe that your own work is useful or contributes something - if that means thinking about how you would spin this situation as an answer in a future job interview or how you'll explain $great_project to one of the new starters, rather than feeling that it has intrinsic value, so be it.
posted by plonkee at 3:14 PM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm really sorry. First, I just want to affirm that this is all very unprofessional and unfair behavior on your boss' part, and I can see how it would affect you this way!
As for how to deal with this, I think the most important thing is to do whatever you can to absorb the facts that 1. this has absolutely nothing to do with you and 2. none of this is anything you can or should solve. Your boss is acting this way because of her own issues. It's truly amazing to me how many people are able to get to positions where they have managerial power over other people without having learned how to not make everything about themselves, but there you go. (And I know you said she's a good person, and I'm sure she is! But she's also being incredibly unfair here and it's not your problem to solve.)
I think it is really important for you to find a way to stop putting any emotional weight at all on her judgments, because they are reflections on how she feels about herself, not impartial judgments. She thinks the work isn't essential? Well, that sucks for her that she feels this way, but it doesn't actually say anything of value about the work.
When I've been in situation like this, the thing that's helped me is to focus on what I am trying to accomplish above all else. What is the work I am trying to get done, and is there a way I can actually get this person to be helpful to that work, or do I simply need to maneuver around them?
As for how to set boundaries without conflict - well, unfortunately boundary-setting can be somewhat awkward. I wouldn't immediately go into Professional Office Robot mode but maybe just start thinking before you share things. Be intentional about what you share. Draw back slowly.
Also, since I know your own feelings of loyalty and guilt are at play here: when she treated your own personal milestone as a loss for her, she really showed that she really lacks the ability to not make things about her. It's very self-absorbed and I think it shows that she is not showing you the same level of care you show her. You sound like a lovely person and you deserve to give your emotional energy to people who will give it back to you.
posted by lunasol at 3:39 PM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
As for how to deal with this, I think the most important thing is to do whatever you can to absorb the facts that 1. this has absolutely nothing to do with you and 2. none of this is anything you can or should solve. Your boss is acting this way because of her own issues. It's truly amazing to me how many people are able to get to positions where they have managerial power over other people without having learned how to not make everything about themselves, but there you go. (And I know you said she's a good person, and I'm sure she is! But she's also being incredibly unfair here and it's not your problem to solve.)
I think it is really important for you to find a way to stop putting any emotional weight at all on her judgments, because they are reflections on how she feels about herself, not impartial judgments. She thinks the work isn't essential? Well, that sucks for her that she feels this way, but it doesn't actually say anything of value about the work.
When I've been in situation like this, the thing that's helped me is to focus on what I am trying to accomplish above all else. What is the work I am trying to get done, and is there a way I can actually get this person to be helpful to that work, or do I simply need to maneuver around them?
As for how to set boundaries without conflict - well, unfortunately boundary-setting can be somewhat awkward. I wouldn't immediately go into Professional Office Robot mode but maybe just start thinking before you share things. Be intentional about what you share. Draw back slowly.
Also, since I know your own feelings of loyalty and guilt are at play here: when she treated your own personal milestone as a loss for her, she really showed that she really lacks the ability to not make things about her. It's very self-absorbed and I think it shows that she is not showing you the same level of care you show her. You sound like a lovely person and you deserve to give your emotional energy to people who will give it back to you.
posted by lunasol at 3:39 PM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best answer: [Just a reminder that OP has not identified the gender of their boss.]
posted by heatherlogan at 5:26 PM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 5:26 PM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: thanks heatherlogan :)
I appreciate the answers so far!
posted by Sock Meets Body at 6:11 PM on December 7, 2020
I appreciate the answers so far!
posted by Sock Meets Body at 6:11 PM on December 7, 2020
Best answer: You are allowed -- and I encourage you -- to express dismay and hurt (in a reasonably professional fashion) when Boss downplays or badmouths your work. "Huh, I actually thought that went really well." "Ow, it hurts to hear you say that -- Grandboss really liked that project."
May help, may not, but either way, don't feel you have to hold that in.
You can of course gray-rock it if you prefer, but my sense is that's not your style and that's fine.
posted by humbug at 8:24 PM on December 7, 2020
May help, may not, but either way, don't feel you have to hold that in.
You can of course gray-rock it if you prefer, but my sense is that's not your style and that's fine.
posted by humbug at 8:24 PM on December 7, 2020
Best answer: Three thoughts on your three Qs above...
1. You don't have to, but you can push back with clarity. For example, "I find it really demoralizing when you downplay the teams work as not meaningful." They may not realize that they're doing this, and while it's not your job to coach your boss, i suggest this approach more in the spirit of clear communication. Sometimes we all get real frustrated with others in our lives for doing X, but never tell them X is frustrating. Is this the case here?
2. We are the only ones who can set real and meaningful boundaries for ourselves, so if you feel you've said/shared too much, or you're being cajoled into a role/space that compromises your good feelings about yourself, then I encourage you to listen to that gut feeling and inner voice. Teasing out patterns of caretaking is tough. It sounds like you've recognized a pattern here, and you're trying to disengage and prioritize your own mental wellness. Forgive yourself when you slip up on this. They say our energy goes to where our attention is, so it can be healthy to practice refocusing whenever you find that your boss' drama is taking centre stage. I'll sometimes just push back from my computer, look up, and think about what I'll be doing when the work day ends. For me, this helps when I'm getting sucked in to things at work that sap my energy.
3. I second @plonkee's advice to lean on your peer network, if available. If not a peer network, is there any type of emotional resource outside of work (e.g., therapist, work counseling program, collegial friend you don't work with)? If there is a place in your work where you have influence, and which positively feeds you, focus energy there.
All three of these items really feed eachother! It's hard to feel good about work if your boss undermines your product, and hard to feel calm about the future when the present is a headache. Good luck, and I hope some good changes come your way at work soon.
posted by tamarack at 9:47 PM on December 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
1. You don't have to, but you can push back with clarity. For example, "I find it really demoralizing when you downplay the teams work as not meaningful." They may not realize that they're doing this, and while it's not your job to coach your boss, i suggest this approach more in the spirit of clear communication. Sometimes we all get real frustrated with others in our lives for doing X, but never tell them X is frustrating. Is this the case here?
2. We are the only ones who can set real and meaningful boundaries for ourselves, so if you feel you've said/shared too much, or you're being cajoled into a role/space that compromises your good feelings about yourself, then I encourage you to listen to that gut feeling and inner voice. Teasing out patterns of caretaking is tough. It sounds like you've recognized a pattern here, and you're trying to disengage and prioritize your own mental wellness. Forgive yourself when you slip up on this. They say our energy goes to where our attention is, so it can be healthy to practice refocusing whenever you find that your boss' drama is taking centre stage. I'll sometimes just push back from my computer, look up, and think about what I'll be doing when the work day ends. For me, this helps when I'm getting sucked in to things at work that sap my energy.
3. I second @plonkee's advice to lean on your peer network, if available. If not a peer network, is there any type of emotional resource outside of work (e.g., therapist, work counseling program, collegial friend you don't work with)? If there is a place in your work where you have influence, and which positively feeds you, focus energy there.
All three of these items really feed eachother! It's hard to feel good about work if your boss undermines your product, and hard to feel calm about the future when the present is a headache. Good luck, and I hope some good changes come your way at work soon.
posted by tamarack at 9:47 PM on December 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I think it's very generous of you to be giving this person their space to grow into the position and learn by falling down, though this admittedly puts a lot of burden on their team as you have noted and we can't always go into work every day with the attitude that our boss will eventually see the light. Odds are, they won't.
A hard but important lesson I've learned over the decades in the need to manage up. It sounds like you know enough about your boss to be able to manage interactions in a way that gets you what you want. A short example: My current boss (in a job I enjoy and want to keep) is kind of a managerial disaster. I've learned that he has a very short attention span and doesn't really care about details and has a couple of buzz words that he throws around and asks questions that are not pertinent to projects. At first I found this frustrating. Now, I limit my interactions with him to as few as possible and when I need his attention, I narrow everything down to a couple bullet points and present it as "this is what I want to do because and here is the intended outcome and how does all this sound. I keep it short and sweet. I have the advantage that I'm trusted to make good decisions that work for our outcomes, and I use that to my advantage. In the end, my boss appreciates not having to know all of the details and I appreciate being left alone to make it all happen.
In short, learn now to manage your interactions with them. You can't and won't get emtional validation from work and expecting to will make you sad. And you can't be responsible for the emotional manegement of someone else.
posted by archimago at 6:38 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
A hard but important lesson I've learned over the decades in the need to manage up. It sounds like you know enough about your boss to be able to manage interactions in a way that gets you what you want. A short example: My current boss (in a job I enjoy and want to keep) is kind of a managerial disaster. I've learned that he has a very short attention span and doesn't really care about details and has a couple of buzz words that he throws around and asks questions that are not pertinent to projects. At first I found this frustrating. Now, I limit my interactions with him to as few as possible and when I need his attention, I narrow everything down to a couple bullet points and present it as "this is what I want to do because
In short, learn now to manage your interactions with them. You can't and won't get emtional validation from work and expecting to will make you sad. And you can't be responsible for the emotional manegement of someone else.
posted by archimago at 6:38 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I work in a place with very poor management skills across the board, and my previous supervisor, who I continue to collaborate with and de facto report to, is very similar to this.
Like you, I sympathize with my emotionally fraught (former) supervisor - I like him a lot as a person and he's generally right about our workplace. But dang if he won't just constantly dump about his own burnout, how he's going to quit or get fired, we all do shitty work because everything is irrevocably screwed up, and all of a sudden its been 45 minutes and I am a free therapist.
So I use two techniques that sometimes help me feel more focused when I am being unloaded on about all the pain and misery he / we suffer in our jobs. First, I consciously separate. I name what is happening: "Alright, Joe is on his misery train, let it go for a bit." Then I make that cup of coffee and listen quietly, or check that email while he lets it out. Separate,
Second, and I do this more when I am feeling confident and/or exasperated: I react by centering myself and use a lot of "I" statements about how I think about work and my personal goals for the project and myself. I'll say things like "well, I agree things are bad right now, but I am working extremely hard b/c I care about this project / i care about my reputation, and I am going to do the best I can, and this is the situation we find ourselves in, and I want to succeed, however possible." Which is like, a weird kind of thing cheerleading to say at work, but it helps me to let him know that hey, the pity party is over, I am resetting, and its also a pep talk for myself.
Good luck, I know its tough, and it sounds like you are a caring and thoughtful person! Stay focused on that.
posted by RajahKing at 7:09 AM on December 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
Like you, I sympathize with my emotionally fraught (former) supervisor - I like him a lot as a person and he's generally right about our workplace. But dang if he won't just constantly dump about his own burnout, how he's going to quit or get fired, we all do shitty work because everything is irrevocably screwed up, and all of a sudden its been 45 minutes and I am a free therapist.
So I use two techniques that sometimes help me feel more focused when I am being unloaded on about all the pain and misery he / we suffer in our jobs. First, I consciously separate. I name what is happening: "Alright, Joe is on his misery train, let it go for a bit." Then I make that cup of coffee and listen quietly, or check that email while he lets it out. Separate,
Second, and I do this more when I am feeling confident and/or exasperated: I react by centering myself and use a lot of "I" statements about how I think about work and my personal goals for the project and myself. I'll say things like "well, I agree things are bad right now, but I am working extremely hard b/c I care about this project / i care about my reputation, and I am going to do the best I can, and this is the situation we find ourselves in, and I want to succeed, however possible." Which is like, a weird kind of thing cheerleading to say at work, but it helps me to let him know that hey, the pity party is over, I am resetting, and its also a pep talk for myself.
Good luck, I know its tough, and it sounds like you are a caring and thoughtful person! Stay focused on that.
posted by RajahKing at 7:09 AM on December 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
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posted by Sock Meets Body at 3:02 PM on December 7, 2020