Tell me your stories of your aging parents, their care and maintenance
July 25, 2020 6:57 AM Subscribe
It will help me to hear how many different families have taken care of their aging parents. Tell me what you did with your parents.
I've been very lucky, I have wonderful parents, aged 75 and 82, happily married, living independently. They live a 50 min drive from me (I am their nearest child, I have a brother 5 hours away). They own their house outright, have a sufficient-but-not-lavish fixed income from social security and 401k. They each have a collection of health problems but nothing major at this time.
I feel like now, while there's no emergency (I mean except for ...you know...everything in the world ) would be the time to at least start talking about "next steps"
Obviously the ideal would be if they could just stay living in their house, experience no greater health problems than they do now, remain in complete control of their decisions and finances and die peacefully in their sleep at the same time, preferably many years from now, but since there's no way to ensure that... I feel like we should at least start talking about steps to take now, while they can make their own choices, that ensure their continued safety and care. They may well have started thinking along these lines, but have not mentioned anything to me, and their general style is to put off postpone-able unpleasant tasks.
I absorb information best from stories, so I'd love it if you could tell me your stories of how your family has navigated this moment in aging. Tell me the good and the bad, from "look how good planning has resulted in a peaceful transition to less independence" and also "look how all the best laid plans still resulted in unforseen problems" and also "look, it didn't start out well, deteriorated from avoidance and indecision and is now a shitshow, don't be us" and everything else in the middle.
Tell me what your family with aging parents looked like, it will help me (and probably others too)muddle through what conversations to start with my parents and what to suggest to them.
Thanks!
I've been very lucky, I have wonderful parents, aged 75 and 82, happily married, living independently. They live a 50 min drive from me (I am their nearest child, I have a brother 5 hours away). They own their house outright, have a sufficient-but-not-lavish fixed income from social security and 401k. They each have a collection of health problems but nothing major at this time.
I feel like now, while there's no emergency (I mean except for ...you know...everything in the world ) would be the time to at least start talking about "next steps"
Obviously the ideal would be if they could just stay living in their house, experience no greater health problems than they do now, remain in complete control of their decisions and finances and die peacefully in their sleep at the same time, preferably many years from now, but since there's no way to ensure that... I feel like we should at least start talking about steps to take now, while they can make their own choices, that ensure their continued safety and care. They may well have started thinking along these lines, but have not mentioned anything to me, and their general style is to put off postpone-able unpleasant tasks.
I absorb information best from stories, so I'd love it if you could tell me your stories of how your family has navigated this moment in aging. Tell me the good and the bad, from "look how good planning has resulted in a peaceful transition to less independence" and also "look how all the best laid plans still resulted in unforseen problems" and also "look, it didn't start out well, deteriorated from avoidance and indecision and is now a shitshow, don't be us" and everything else in the middle.
Tell me what your family with aging parents looked like, it will help me (and probably others too)muddle through what conversations to start with my parents and what to suggest to them.
Thanks!
My parents were in their early eighties and living happily in their own home. Neither had major health problems, although my mother was definitely the more frail of the two. Then my dad had a problem with his leg which landed him in the hospital for a few days with rehab needed afterwards. Since my mom was unable to provide care for him, we talked to them about moving into an assisted living facility near their home. They reluctantly agreed and framed it in their own minds as temporary, with the option to move back home when my dad improved. They settled in, came to enjoy the routine and the social aspects of living there. Then later my mom died and my dad lived there for the rest of his life.
The takeaway message: It was so much better for them to move there and settle in together, rather than wait until one needed to move there alone.
posted by MelissaSimon at 7:14 AM on July 25, 2020 [9 favorites]
The takeaway message: It was so much better for them to move there and settle in together, rather than wait until one needed to move there alone.
posted by MelissaSimon at 7:14 AM on July 25, 2020 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: sorry, in the United States, in North Carolina
posted by Jenny'sCricket at 7:33 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Jenny'sCricket at 7:33 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
My dad was eligible to move to the California Veteran's Home with my mom (who had Parkinson's disease). They would be able to live there together on the same campus in a continuing care situation -- but she had to be ambulatory to enter the facility. She didn't want to go. Over the next few years, they moved from a first story apartment to an assisted living facility and then he had to have a triple bypass. During his recovery, it became apparent to us that he really couldn't take care of her anymore.
She went to live in an adult foster home and he moved to the Vet's home. They spent the last three years of their marriage (until she passed away) living 60 miles apart. He wrote her every day and visited her often, but they had to live apart.
My 80+ y/o grandmother lived by herself in her house in Seattle, refusing all help (like Meals on Wheels) until a neighbor found her laying on her kitchen floor - she had probably been there a couple of days. I don't know if she had dementia before that, but she definitely did afterwards and lived the rest of her life in a nursing home.
From these experiences, I've come to believe that there's a good chance I will eventually need more care than my wife can provide and it is a blessing for my family if I'm willing to move into a situation where I can get that care if it is needed.
posted by elmay at 7:55 AM on July 25, 2020 [5 favorites]
She went to live in an adult foster home and he moved to the Vet's home. They spent the last three years of their marriage (until she passed away) living 60 miles apart. He wrote her every day and visited her often, but they had to live apart.
My 80+ y/o grandmother lived by herself in her house in Seattle, refusing all help (like Meals on Wheels) until a neighbor found her laying on her kitchen floor - she had probably been there a couple of days. I don't know if she had dementia before that, but she definitely did afterwards and lived the rest of her life in a nursing home.
From these experiences, I've come to believe that there's a good chance I will eventually need more care than my wife can provide and it is a blessing for my family if I'm willing to move into a situation where I can get that care if it is needed.
posted by elmay at 7:55 AM on July 25, 2020 [5 favorites]
Our situation was almost identical to yours, except that my parents were closer together in age, and I have two sisters. Otherwise, eerily the same.
They were going along fine, active and driving (and in IL those 75yo and up have to pass periodic on-the-road driving tests), attending classes, etc. etc. Then my dad shattered a vertebra, had surgery, did rehab and... never really recovered. He was 88.
While he was in rehab, my sister and I cleaned out the detritus of 36 years in the same house, pared down the furniture and put the house on the market while shopping for an independent living arrangement for them. Thankfully my parents were both very mentally sharp and completely capable of making their own decisions, with my sister and I providing input and advice.
Moving day came and... my dad was in the hospital/nursing home and never got to move into the new apartment because he died a week or so later. So we downsized Mom again, this time into a one-bedroom apartment on the same floor, but there was still furniture to pare down and my dad's things to take care of.
Mom continued happily as a widow for several years until she too "hit the wall". Seriously, she went from passing her driver's test in September (at age 90) to being in intensive care in December to dying in April. Again, like with my dad, there were scrambles to adapt to her declining medical condition, assuring adequate care for her, and transition the financial matters to me. I was already on her accounts and had POA, but I needed to learn the backstories of her income streams and financial obligations so I could carry it forward smoothly and be prepared for handling the estate. Again, thankfully, my mom was mentally all there until about the last 6-8 weeks.
The final chapter is the dissolution and distribution of my parents' assets. In our case, that went very smoothly and cordially with every daughter pulling her own weight and the three of us making decisions together. Our parents had done a great deal of the work upfront, consolidating accounts, assuring that everything was in order, and documenting where it all was. The terms of their wills and the general state of their assets was no surprise to any of us; they had been bringing it up with us for years. Plus there was those months my mom and I were able to discuss it all.
So that's my story. Interestingly, it helps to lay it all out like that. I know you didn't ask for advice, but I will mention just one thing: Try to keep your eyes on the big picture, seeing the broad arc of the final years of their lives. It'll help you avoid overreacting at each small good or bad sign along the road, which isn't helpful and just causes you to be stressed and feel behind the curve no matter what you do.
posted by DrGail at 8:15 AM on July 25, 2020 [10 favorites]
They were going along fine, active and driving (and in IL those 75yo and up have to pass periodic on-the-road driving tests), attending classes, etc. etc. Then my dad shattered a vertebra, had surgery, did rehab and... never really recovered. He was 88.
While he was in rehab, my sister and I cleaned out the detritus of 36 years in the same house, pared down the furniture and put the house on the market while shopping for an independent living arrangement for them. Thankfully my parents were both very mentally sharp and completely capable of making their own decisions, with my sister and I providing input and advice.
Moving day came and... my dad was in the hospital/nursing home and never got to move into the new apartment because he died a week or so later. So we downsized Mom again, this time into a one-bedroom apartment on the same floor, but there was still furniture to pare down and my dad's things to take care of.
Mom continued happily as a widow for several years until she too "hit the wall". Seriously, she went from passing her driver's test in September (at age 90) to being in intensive care in December to dying in April. Again, like with my dad, there were scrambles to adapt to her declining medical condition, assuring adequate care for her, and transition the financial matters to me. I was already on her accounts and had POA, but I needed to learn the backstories of her income streams and financial obligations so I could carry it forward smoothly and be prepared for handling the estate. Again, thankfully, my mom was mentally all there until about the last 6-8 weeks.
The final chapter is the dissolution and distribution of my parents' assets. In our case, that went very smoothly and cordially with every daughter pulling her own weight and the three of us making decisions together. Our parents had done a great deal of the work upfront, consolidating accounts, assuring that everything was in order, and documenting where it all was. The terms of their wills and the general state of their assets was no surprise to any of us; they had been bringing it up with us for years. Plus there was those months my mom and I were able to discuss it all.
So that's my story. Interestingly, it helps to lay it all out like that. I know you didn't ask for advice, but I will mention just one thing: Try to keep your eyes on the big picture, seeing the broad arc of the final years of their lives. It'll help you avoid overreacting at each small good or bad sign along the road, which isn't helpful and just causes you to be stressed and feel behind the curve no matter what you do.
posted by DrGail at 8:15 AM on July 25, 2020 [10 favorites]
My parents are both 86. I am typing this from the couch in their TV room, because I spend Saturdays with them.
They live in a two story house - three if you count the basement. The single biggest difficulty with that has been that there is no full bathroom on the first floor. We have moved their beds to the living room, but getting them fully bathed remains a struggle.
My mom had 4X bypass 20 years ago. At that time, her cardiologist recommended that they consider moving to a one story home - my mother would not HEAR of any kind of assisted living/retirement community - because, in his words, if someone slips into dementia, the house becomes a trap. They didn't, and, in may ways, it has. She doesn't always know where she is when she is at home, but she is completely confused if she leaves.
(Lesson one: if they want to age in place, make sure the place is suited for this, and discuss how you will handle if it isn't).
Until February of this year they were both in pretty good shape. My mom certainly had some dementia happening, but otherwise they were okay. My dad drove; my kids actually got dropped off here after school a couple times a week. And then in February shit sort of hit the fan (literally). My dad developed some kind of stomach/bacterial infection that meant he was regularly soiling himself. He became so dehydrated and his electorlytes so out of sorts that he didn't know who he was. We had to take him to the hospital during the lockdown, which was a nightmare, because he can't hear, and he was so confused, and they wouldn't let me stay with him until I got a court order enforcing the power of attorney.
(Lesson two: Get your papers in order. The POA is important, for health and for money, etc)
(Lesson three: old folks get dehydrated fast. If that ever happens again, i will call a mobile IV clinic early to try to avoid hosptialization)
Then my mom's dementia and anxiety skyrocked out of nowhere. She was also in the hospital for a stint because her sodium dropped alarmingly low in response to some medication. Being in the hospital confused her a LOT. Again we couldn't stay with her.
Since the end of February, they have never been alone, not one minute of one day. My dad became so weak in the hospital that he couldn't stand on his own and had to have PT and OT. My mom is so confused she let the kitchen on fire when she tried to use an aluminum foil pan on the stove. Luckily, there are five kids. We rotate shifts - well, four of us do now, one is useless for a variety of reasons. It is incredibly difficult - I have a full time job, two young kids, plus, you know, the world is falling apart. My two brothers also have full time jobs - they take the overnight shifts. I refuse to do those, because my parents do not sleep - between the two of them they are up 20 times in the night.
(Next lesson: if you move beds to the first floor put them near the bathroom)
We now have my mom in hospice. She has made it abudently clear during her lucid phases that she has no interest in returning to the hospital, or in extreme measures. Hospice has been amazing. They work very quickly, and will do anything you think might help for comfort. We saw the nurse on a Saturday and by that night had a hospital bed and table, oxygen, and a "comfort kit" full of all sorts of drugs. They have sent social workers and nurses and pastors to our house. THey explained the DNR and got it executed. They are the most patient, compassionate people I have ever encountered. They have helped us dose marijuana, and ativan, and morphine to try and help mom get rest. They have suggested all sorts of things that have made life a bit easier. Once you switch from trying to investigate and cure things to just pallatively treating symptoms, there is a lot of relief, and they can try so many things without worry (opiods? Sure! no worries about long term dependence because who cares. Mom only wants to eat candy and is a diabetc? Go ahead - we are about making her happy).
(Lesson: talk about hospice with your parents, including when it might make sense to bring them in. We don't expect my mom to die within the next six months but she was diagnosed with some things that are "terminal". Basically "She's old and she doesn't want to go to the hospital and she has dementia" translates to some kind of vascular thing that qualifies her. Also: talk about the DNR, and make sure your sibling(s) are in on it, or that it's VERY clear who gets the end call. I have four siblings; four of us are almost always on the same page and then there's the fifth one.....sigh.)
Yesterday my mom cried because she was looking for "her baby". Her baby is me. She was looking for me, as a baby, to try and rock me to sleep. She finally said "I just want to go to bed and maybe when I wake up I will remember that I don't have a baby". The combination of not knowing anything but being aware she doesn't know is BRUTAL. It's sometimes frustrating when she asks the same question 60 times; she is easily agitated when ANYTHING is out of place ("where does that thing go" she asks me about my purse or computer if she can see it). She makes us laugh - somehow her sense of humor is all there. And some days she's totally fine; then others not. Sometimes she is downright agitated and mean. Not knowing what to expect each day.
I guess that's the final bit of my story, at this point: remember that you have to care for yourself too. I went from being with them three days a week to just Saturdays, plus bringing dinner two other nights. I have offered to interview and hire home health companions (something hospice does not do), but my sister won't hear of it. I have learned to let her do what she thinks she needs to until she reaches and defines her own limit. She's an adult; I have to respect that. The same way she has respected my limits.
Oh, one last thing - the BEST thing that we did, besides hospice, was letting my kids come over, even during quarantine. Watching my older daughter play cards with dad, and my seven year old absolutely dote on my mom has been nothing short of a blessing. My younger daughter plays play dough with my mom and says "good job grandma, you made a perfect ball! let's turn it into a cookie" in a tone of such genuine happiness that it brings tears to my eyes.
I'm so, so glad I am able to help them. I wish they would allow for professional care - which they can afford - so that we could just be their kids instead of their caregivers, but that's not in our cards. My grandma lived with us til she died at 91, and clearly my mom expects to be similarly cared for :)
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:49 AM on July 25, 2020 [38 favorites]
They live in a two story house - three if you count the basement. The single biggest difficulty with that has been that there is no full bathroom on the first floor. We have moved their beds to the living room, but getting them fully bathed remains a struggle.
My mom had 4X bypass 20 years ago. At that time, her cardiologist recommended that they consider moving to a one story home - my mother would not HEAR of any kind of assisted living/retirement community - because, in his words, if someone slips into dementia, the house becomes a trap. They didn't, and, in may ways, it has. She doesn't always know where she is when she is at home, but she is completely confused if she leaves.
(Lesson one: if they want to age in place, make sure the place is suited for this, and discuss how you will handle if it isn't).
Until February of this year they were both in pretty good shape. My mom certainly had some dementia happening, but otherwise they were okay. My dad drove; my kids actually got dropped off here after school a couple times a week. And then in February shit sort of hit the fan (literally). My dad developed some kind of stomach/bacterial infection that meant he was regularly soiling himself. He became so dehydrated and his electorlytes so out of sorts that he didn't know who he was. We had to take him to the hospital during the lockdown, which was a nightmare, because he can't hear, and he was so confused, and they wouldn't let me stay with him until I got a court order enforcing the power of attorney.
(Lesson two: Get your papers in order. The POA is important, for health and for money, etc)
(Lesson three: old folks get dehydrated fast. If that ever happens again, i will call a mobile IV clinic early to try to avoid hosptialization)
Then my mom's dementia and anxiety skyrocked out of nowhere. She was also in the hospital for a stint because her sodium dropped alarmingly low in response to some medication. Being in the hospital confused her a LOT. Again we couldn't stay with her.
Since the end of February, they have never been alone, not one minute of one day. My dad became so weak in the hospital that he couldn't stand on his own and had to have PT and OT. My mom is so confused she let the kitchen on fire when she tried to use an aluminum foil pan on the stove. Luckily, there are five kids. We rotate shifts - well, four of us do now, one is useless for a variety of reasons. It is incredibly difficult - I have a full time job, two young kids, plus, you know, the world is falling apart. My two brothers also have full time jobs - they take the overnight shifts. I refuse to do those, because my parents do not sleep - between the two of them they are up 20 times in the night.
(Next lesson: if you move beds to the first floor put them near the bathroom)
We now have my mom in hospice. She has made it abudently clear during her lucid phases that she has no interest in returning to the hospital, or in extreme measures. Hospice has been amazing. They work very quickly, and will do anything you think might help for comfort. We saw the nurse on a Saturday and by that night had a hospital bed and table, oxygen, and a "comfort kit" full of all sorts of drugs. They have sent social workers and nurses and pastors to our house. THey explained the DNR and got it executed. They are the most patient, compassionate people I have ever encountered. They have helped us dose marijuana, and ativan, and morphine to try and help mom get rest. They have suggested all sorts of things that have made life a bit easier. Once you switch from trying to investigate and cure things to just pallatively treating symptoms, there is a lot of relief, and they can try so many things without worry (opiods? Sure! no worries about long term dependence because who cares. Mom only wants to eat candy and is a diabetc? Go ahead - we are about making her happy).
(Lesson: talk about hospice with your parents, including when it might make sense to bring them in. We don't expect my mom to die within the next six months but she was diagnosed with some things that are "terminal". Basically "She's old and she doesn't want to go to the hospital and she has dementia" translates to some kind of vascular thing that qualifies her. Also: talk about the DNR, and make sure your sibling(s) are in on it, or that it's VERY clear who gets the end call. I have four siblings; four of us are almost always on the same page and then there's the fifth one.....sigh.)
Yesterday my mom cried because she was looking for "her baby". Her baby is me. She was looking for me, as a baby, to try and rock me to sleep. She finally said "I just want to go to bed and maybe when I wake up I will remember that I don't have a baby". The combination of not knowing anything but being aware she doesn't know is BRUTAL. It's sometimes frustrating when she asks the same question 60 times; she is easily agitated when ANYTHING is out of place ("where does that thing go" she asks me about my purse or computer if she can see it). She makes us laugh - somehow her sense of humor is all there. And some days she's totally fine; then others not. Sometimes she is downright agitated and mean. Not knowing what to expect each day.
I guess that's the final bit of my story, at this point: remember that you have to care for yourself too. I went from being with them three days a week to just Saturdays, plus bringing dinner two other nights. I have offered to interview and hire home health companions (something hospice does not do), but my sister won't hear of it. I have learned to let her do what she thinks she needs to until she reaches and defines her own limit. She's an adult; I have to respect that. The same way she has respected my limits.
Oh, one last thing - the BEST thing that we did, besides hospice, was letting my kids come over, even during quarantine. Watching my older daughter play cards with dad, and my seven year old absolutely dote on my mom has been nothing short of a blessing. My younger daughter plays play dough with my mom and says "good job grandma, you made a perfect ball! let's turn it into a cookie" in a tone of such genuine happiness that it brings tears to my eyes.
I'm so, so glad I am able to help them. I wish they would allow for professional care - which they can afford - so that we could just be their kids instead of their caregivers, but that's not in our cards. My grandma lived with us til she died at 91, and clearly my mom expects to be similarly cared for :)
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:49 AM on July 25, 2020 [38 favorites]
My mom has Alzheimer's and my dad is her primary caregiver. I've discovered that neither of them has thought much about end-of-life decisions - no wills, no POAs, no advanced directives. They both tend to be somewhat avoidant, and the situation has not made them less so. Our story will be sadder and more difficult than necessary if nothing changes (I'm trying).
On the positive side, they have friends and family nearby who are helping out. At one point I thought about trying to persuade them to move closer to me, but I think it's better that they stay in their community as long as possible.
I wish that, when they were both healthier, I'd pushed to get more work done on their house to make it more comfortable and livable for the next several years - now it's harder for dad to do that kind of work, and Mom has lower tolerance for that kind of disruption.
posted by bunderful at 9:58 AM on July 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
On the positive side, they have friends and family nearby who are helping out. At one point I thought about trying to persuade them to move closer to me, but I think it's better that they stay in their community as long as possible.
I wish that, when they were both healthier, I'd pushed to get more work done on their house to make it more comfortable and livable for the next several years - now it's harder for dad to do that kind of work, and Mom has lower tolerance for that kind of disruption.
posted by bunderful at 9:58 AM on July 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
Good: my dad's parents decided pretty early to downsize into a retirement community, so they would have time to make friends etc. while their energy levels were high and not in any sort of crisis.
Good: my mom's dad had a caretaker who would come and do chores in the morning and drive him to get his morning coffee. He stayed in his house and was able to keep up key hobbies.
Both of them, eventually it was only one parent left, who started to have falls.
#1 My dad's dad, after he had a fall in the semi-independent apartments and lay on the floor for several hours, his kids decided to move him into more skilled nursing facilities so that a nurse or doctor would get to him quickly. He ended up in a unit alongside people with terrible memory and cognitive issues. They tried hard to make it nice but being around people who are crying out every day in suffering is hard on the spirit. He died a few weeks after the move, in his sleep.
#2 My mom's dad had a fall at home. He broke his hip, didn't have his alert button in reach, and lay on the floor overnight developing sepsis. He died in the hospital the next day.
#1 is a "better death" but if you look at the broader arc I would take #2 any time.
I recommend reading Being Mortal, if you haven't. I read it while we were moving my grandfather into the skilled nursing unit and I could really see the dynamics of overprotection play out in real time. When we try to protect our loved ones, sometimes we protect them from the wrong things, I think.
posted by Lady Li at 10:07 AM on July 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
Good: my mom's dad had a caretaker who would come and do chores in the morning and drive him to get his morning coffee. He stayed in his house and was able to keep up key hobbies.
Both of them, eventually it was only one parent left, who started to have falls.
#1 My dad's dad, after he had a fall in the semi-independent apartments and lay on the floor for several hours, his kids decided to move him into more skilled nursing facilities so that a nurse or doctor would get to him quickly. He ended up in a unit alongside people with terrible memory and cognitive issues. They tried hard to make it nice but being around people who are crying out every day in suffering is hard on the spirit. He died a few weeks after the move, in his sleep.
#2 My mom's dad had a fall at home. He broke his hip, didn't have his alert button in reach, and lay on the floor overnight developing sepsis. He died in the hospital the next day.
#1 is a "better death" but if you look at the broader arc I would take #2 any time.
I recommend reading Being Mortal, if you haven't. I read it while we were moving my grandfather into the skilled nursing unit and I could really see the dynamics of overprotection play out in real time. When we try to protect our loved ones, sometimes we protect them from the wrong things, I think.
posted by Lady Li at 10:07 AM on July 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
Oh hey -- both my parents died in the last decade and there was stuff that went well and stuff that went... less well. They each lived alone in very different circumstances. I lived about 3-4 hours from both of them. My sister lived right up the road from my mom and about 90 min from my dad. Here's some information that might be helpful.
Both parents had a will, durable power of attorney, and a health care proxy. Both parents had had at least some "final wishes" conversations with at least one of us. One of the most important parts of all of this was that my sister and I are good friends, communicate well, and were and are a TEAM dealing with my parents.
My father died in 2011, suddenly and at home. He was not in good health, was an alcoholic, and was one of those "no one tells me what to do" people. He was constantly angling for me or my sister to come live with him (as unmarried women, in his mind this was just what you did. However, it was not what we did and I do not have regrets about this). He had recently gotten done with a contentious divorce and so despite having a current will, some of his finances were messy including his divorce settlement which said that upon his death his ex would get a cash payout which we had to kind of struggle to manage at a point in time where we were already dealing with a lot of grief. His ex was still listed on their formerly shared bank account. His ex was not cool about any of this (I understand this but it was bad nonetheless). Add to this that my father was kind of a legendary guy and many many people Had Opinions about how we needed to deal wit this and that regarding his legacy at the same time as they were not offering to do any of the work. To manage his estate we went with the lawyer who had drafted his will and this may have been a mistake since she was also friendly with his ex.
It took a LONG time to deal with all the will/estate stuff. If he had put his house and some of his assets in trust for me and my sister (almost the sole beneficiaries) it would have been simpler. Same with just downsizing from his giant fancy retirement house. It was a good house because it was on one level for the most part, had places for guests, had very accessible bathrooms particularly a walk-in shower with a bench seat. The only things I wish I had known that I didn't was how to maintain some of the house stuff (fancy houses are a mystery to me) which was already in a state of deferred maintenance. So things like having a house notebook with stuff like "Get the furnace serviced in October" "Get the generator serviced in September" would have been helpful.
My mother died in 2017 after living with cancer for ten years. This was a very predictable death in some ways and she was in decent health until about a month before she died. She had a whole binder of stuff for us ready upon her death and had left most things in trust making the will stuff super simple. My sister was on her bank account. We had no questions about her final wishes. She did however live in a rambly old farmhouse so for the last month of her life, she moved her bed downstairs and her plan (which she had discussed with us) was to move to a specific hospice facility to die. Both of these things were a little bit of a hassle. There were stairs everywhere in her house so the room with her bed/bathroom was four stairs from the kitchen and, for a brief period of time, this was hard. Basically my mom suddenly "took a turn" while at home, ambulance came and my mom had a "do not transport" order (the one thing we hadn't known about) and so we had to scramble because she became suddenly unable to care for herself.
The hospice didn't have a bed right when we needed/wanted one, so there was some time at the house when we hired overnight help just to make sure someone was with her at all times (we were there during the day, this was maybe two weeks). This went okay but could have gone better, we had some nurses who were... not right, and sometimes we had to make a choice between no nurse and one who was sleeping at night or not wearing gloves, etc. This was in a rural area so YMMV. My mom didn't want me and my sister helping her with things like the bathroom and showering, so the hospice/palliative care folks came in to do that. We spent a lot of time mostly just hanging out with her and also managing the THRONGS of people who wanted to see her (she was a legend in a different way) before she died.
Hospice was a relief, though there were definitely some people who were like "Why are you putting your mom there???" and it was good to tell them this was her choice. The complicating factor with my mom was that she had a foster kid who was basically treated more like an adopted kid. We hadn't grown up with him and he had only lived with her for maybe a year (and was now 30 and married) but he called her mom and she called him son and it was... complicated. We didn't get along with him for $REASONS and he could have been cooler about a lot of things so navigating end-of-life issues with him was difficult. She did not really set expectations with him, he had thought she was managing some of her estate differently than she did and we had to break the news to him that he was not being treated like her actual child (she was more than generous with him but I think he thought we'd all own the house together, for example). She was also living in the house we all grew up in, a huge rambling two-family that was full of her stuff, my grandmother's stuff and a lifetime of things so managing that was, and continues to be, a huge chore.
The thing I hadn't really expected was how much managing other people's expectations, as the person closest to my parent, was going to be part of this. People who are grieving are weird (understandably!) and I had to deal with a lot of bad behavior while not feeling great myself. Both my parents could have downsized... like at all. Lawyers were expensive and minimizing what they need to do is important. Taxes were a pain for a while and I was happy we had a good accountant (and very unhappy with the one accountant that we fired) but the IRS was more helpful than I was expecting. Giving anyone who said "How can I help?" a JOB to get it off of our plate was very helpful. Tossing money at some things (catering for a memorial service, having a hospital bed at home for my mom, takeout food for us) was totally worth it. MeFi's ColdChef is good at talking about end-of-life stuff and he was very helpful for both me and my sister when we were navigating all of this.
posted by jessamyn at 10:20 AM on July 25, 2020 [8 favorites]
Both parents had a will, durable power of attorney, and a health care proxy. Both parents had had at least some "final wishes" conversations with at least one of us. One of the most important parts of all of this was that my sister and I are good friends, communicate well, and were and are a TEAM dealing with my parents.
My father died in 2011, suddenly and at home. He was not in good health, was an alcoholic, and was one of those "no one tells me what to do" people. He was constantly angling for me or my sister to come live with him (as unmarried women, in his mind this was just what you did. However, it was not what we did and I do not have regrets about this). He had recently gotten done with a contentious divorce and so despite having a current will, some of his finances were messy including his divorce settlement which said that upon his death his ex would get a cash payout which we had to kind of struggle to manage at a point in time where we were already dealing with a lot of grief. His ex was still listed on their formerly shared bank account. His ex was not cool about any of this (I understand this but it was bad nonetheless). Add to this that my father was kind of a legendary guy and many many people Had Opinions about how we needed to deal wit this and that regarding his legacy at the same time as they were not offering to do any of the work. To manage his estate we went with the lawyer who had drafted his will and this may have been a mistake since she was also friendly with his ex.
It took a LONG time to deal with all the will/estate stuff. If he had put his house and some of his assets in trust for me and my sister (almost the sole beneficiaries) it would have been simpler. Same with just downsizing from his giant fancy retirement house. It was a good house because it was on one level for the most part, had places for guests, had very accessible bathrooms particularly a walk-in shower with a bench seat. The only things I wish I had known that I didn't was how to maintain some of the house stuff (fancy houses are a mystery to me) which was already in a state of deferred maintenance. So things like having a house notebook with stuff like "Get the furnace serviced in October" "Get the generator serviced in September" would have been helpful.
My mother died in 2017 after living with cancer for ten years. This was a very predictable death in some ways and she was in decent health until about a month before she died. She had a whole binder of stuff for us ready upon her death and had left most things in trust making the will stuff super simple. My sister was on her bank account. We had no questions about her final wishes. She did however live in a rambly old farmhouse so for the last month of her life, she moved her bed downstairs and her plan (which she had discussed with us) was to move to a specific hospice facility to die. Both of these things were a little bit of a hassle. There were stairs everywhere in her house so the room with her bed/bathroom was four stairs from the kitchen and, for a brief period of time, this was hard. Basically my mom suddenly "took a turn" while at home, ambulance came and my mom had a "do not transport" order (the one thing we hadn't known about) and so we had to scramble because she became suddenly unable to care for herself.
The hospice didn't have a bed right when we needed/wanted one, so there was some time at the house when we hired overnight help just to make sure someone was with her at all times (we were there during the day, this was maybe two weeks). This went okay but could have gone better, we had some nurses who were... not right, and sometimes we had to make a choice between no nurse and one who was sleeping at night or not wearing gloves, etc. This was in a rural area so YMMV. My mom didn't want me and my sister helping her with things like the bathroom and showering, so the hospice/palliative care folks came in to do that. We spent a lot of time mostly just hanging out with her and also managing the THRONGS of people who wanted to see her (she was a legend in a different way) before she died.
Hospice was a relief, though there were definitely some people who were like "Why are you putting your mom there???" and it was good to tell them this was her choice. The complicating factor with my mom was that she had a foster kid who was basically treated more like an adopted kid. We hadn't grown up with him and he had only lived with her for maybe a year (and was now 30 and married) but he called her mom and she called him son and it was... complicated. We didn't get along with him for $REASONS and he could have been cooler about a lot of things so navigating end-of-life issues with him was difficult. She did not really set expectations with him, he had thought she was managing some of her estate differently than she did and we had to break the news to him that he was not being treated like her actual child (she was more than generous with him but I think he thought we'd all own the house together, for example). She was also living in the house we all grew up in, a huge rambling two-family that was full of her stuff, my grandmother's stuff and a lifetime of things so managing that was, and continues to be, a huge chore.
The thing I hadn't really expected was how much managing other people's expectations, as the person closest to my parent, was going to be part of this. People who are grieving are weird (understandably!) and I had to deal with a lot of bad behavior while not feeling great myself. Both my parents could have downsized... like at all. Lawyers were expensive and minimizing what they need to do is important. Taxes were a pain for a while and I was happy we had a good accountant (and very unhappy with the one accountant that we fired) but the IRS was more helpful than I was expecting. Giving anyone who said "How can I help?" a JOB to get it off of our plate was very helpful. Tossing money at some things (catering for a memorial service, having a hospital bed at home for my mom, takeout food for us) was totally worth it. MeFi's ColdChef is good at talking about end-of-life stuff and he was very helpful for both me and my sister when we were navigating all of this.
posted by jessamyn at 10:20 AM on July 25, 2020 [8 favorites]
It's probably too late for your parents to do this, but the single biggest help with dealing with my mother's terminal illness has been that my parents had the foresight to buy long-term-care insurance when they were relatively young and healthy and able to get it. The long-term-care insurance pays for home health aides, and I cannot tell you what an enormous help that is. So, like I said, it may not be relevant to your parents at this point, but consider looking into it for yourself. I have long-term-care insurance through work, and one of my first priorities when this is over is going to be looking into what it covers and supplementing if necessary.
My mom was incapacitated by a complication of the biopsy that diagnosed her terminal cancer, and that means that, by the time we knew she was dying, she wasn't really able to communicate. My parents had discussed their wishes for end-of-life care, but we only have a vague idea of what kind of funeral and burial arrangements she wants. On some level, that's irrelevant, because the COVID situation means we won't be able to have a traditional funeral anyway. But it would have been helpful to have a clearer idea of her wishes about burial vs. cremation, where she wanted to be buried, etc. So maybe ask about that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:40 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
My mom was incapacitated by a complication of the biopsy that diagnosed her terminal cancer, and that means that, by the time we knew she was dying, she wasn't really able to communicate. My parents had discussed their wishes for end-of-life care, but we only have a vague idea of what kind of funeral and burial arrangements she wants. On some level, that's irrelevant, because the COVID situation means we won't be able to have a traditional funeral anyway. But it would have been helpful to have a clearer idea of her wishes about burial vs. cremation, where she wanted to be buried, etc. So maybe ask about that.
Giving anyone who said "How can I help?" a JOB to get it off of our plate was very helpful.Yeah, that. Also, there's a website called mealtrain.com that allows people to sign up to bring you food (or have food delivered), and that's a total life-saver. When people ask what they can do and you don't have a job for them, direct them to your mealtrain site. People are really happy to have something relatively straightforward to do to help, and neither I nor my father are in any way up to figuring out food right now.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:40 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Another thing: you might want to evaluate how accessible your parents' house is for people with mobility impairments and think about budgeting for whatever improvements would be necessary if one of them suddenly needed to use a walker or a wheelchair. My parents' house is so inaccessible that it ended up being cheaper for them to get a short-term rental on an accessible apartment than to put in all the lifts and ramps and things that they'd need for my mother to be able to live there. They had actually talked about selling the house and buying a place without quite so many stairs, but they put it off, because they were super fit and active, and the stairs weren't a problem for them. And then, basically overnight, the stairs became a problem. I'm not saying that your parents should sell their house tomorrow and move to a senior living place or something, but it's probably worth thinking about what they'll do if it becomes an issue.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:04 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:04 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
My situation is similar to yours, in that my parents are still healthy and fairly sharp, mentally. They have made some changes as they've gotten older in order to make the inevitable decline easier, when it comes. My mother (80) and her partner (86) opted to move into a senior living place long before either of them will need any assistance, on the rationale that their house would eventually prove difficult (three stories, lots of stairs) and that it was better to do it while they were in control of the situation. They've also made things very easy for us kids -- I don't think I've got POA yet (I'll make a note to talk to Mom), but every few years they send us a letter laying out the state of their finances, all the account numbers we may need, the names/contact information for their lawyer/accountant/other folks, where all the paperwork is, stuff like that. We are a close-knit family and there's a lot of trust between us, so they know we're not going to take that information and misuse it. I rest easier knowing that when something inevitably happens, at least I have some notion of how to proceed.
posted by pleasant_confusion at 11:57 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by pleasant_confusion at 11:57 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
I absorb information best from stories
Here's a good one for you, by Roz, The New Yorker cartoonist: Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant?
posted by Rash at 12:09 PM on July 25, 2020 [8 favorites]
Here's a good one for you, by Roz, The New Yorker cartoonist: Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant?
posted by Rash at 12:09 PM on July 25, 2020 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure there's much wisdom in this but my mother and aunt (who raised me jointly) had occasional but infrequent mental health challenges throughout their life but luckily never at the same time when I was a minor. One would go into the mental hospital (they had them then) and the other would visit and then upon return home they had the "well, that takes care of that" attitude.
As my aunt got older her mental faculties declined and she had significant health problems and so my aunt was placed in a nursing home where she died (July of 2001, never saw 9/11).
As my mother grew old she became lonely in her row home, neighbors and friends moved (or passed) away so we asked her if she wanted to sell the place and move in with us. We rearranged our home to make it as comfortable as possible, but she never seemed to "settle in". She wouldn't go bowling even though there were shuttles paid for by the State Lottery for that sort of thing. She wouldn't chat up neighbors. And then she started having some mental problems and/or cognitive challenges, and we weren't comfortable leaving her alone when both of us worked and our children were young. She also accused me of taking her money even though I showed her months worth of statements. And she tried to sneak not taking the Rx her neurologist prescribed.
We asked if she would want to live in an assisted living facility, but her finances were such that she didn't qualify for the really nice ones (by any stretch, and we couldn't make up the difference). She got into a nice but not wonderful Catholic facility but then she began having episodes that made her ineligible for Assisted Living. She would become unresponsive even though nothing was physically wrong as best as could be determined. So then she was moved to the nursing home side of that facility which she really disliked and she passed away in her sleep in Sept. of 2007, never saw the Recession).
I think the only lesson is that mental illness or cognitive decline trumps all else.
posted by forthright at 12:45 PM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
As my aunt got older her mental faculties declined and she had significant health problems and so my aunt was placed in a nursing home where she died (July of 2001, never saw 9/11).
As my mother grew old she became lonely in her row home, neighbors and friends moved (or passed) away so we asked her if she wanted to sell the place and move in with us. We rearranged our home to make it as comfortable as possible, but she never seemed to "settle in". She wouldn't go bowling even though there were shuttles paid for by the State Lottery for that sort of thing. She wouldn't chat up neighbors. And then she started having some mental problems and/or cognitive challenges, and we weren't comfortable leaving her alone when both of us worked and our children were young. She also accused me of taking her money even though I showed her months worth of statements. And she tried to sneak not taking the Rx her neurologist prescribed.
We asked if she would want to live in an assisted living facility, but her finances were such that she didn't qualify for the really nice ones (by any stretch, and we couldn't make up the difference). She got into a nice but not wonderful Catholic facility but then she began having episodes that made her ineligible for Assisted Living. She would become unresponsive even though nothing was physically wrong as best as could be determined. So then she was moved to the nursing home side of that facility which she really disliked and she passed away in her sleep in Sept. of 2007, never saw the Recession).
I think the only lesson is that mental illness or cognitive decline trumps all else.
posted by forthright at 12:45 PM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
My story is not much like your situation. My parents lived in another state during their retirement years. My dad took care of my wheelchair-bound mom (who also had dementia) for years. They thought about moving closer to me but they weren't able to before Dad had a major health crisis. I spent a month with my mom in their home while Dad was in rehab. Then my husband and I moved them to our hometown. The parents had to stay in a senior care home because our house's bathroom was too small for a wheelchair to fit in. The caregivers were amazing but my folks still wanted to have their own home again. Not to mention the care home was very expensive.
I was concerned that being in their own home would be too much for my dad so I asked our local Council on Aging for help in evaluating Dad's abilities. Dad had ended up with memory troubles as a result of his medical problems. It seemed like it would work out so I helped them shop for and buy a home in a Senior mobile home park. I lived just minutes away so I could help out after work. We hired a part-time caregiver as well. It all worked pretty well. My dad died about a year later.
We were lucky to be able to get an affordable live-in caregiver for my mom. The caregiver had her kids come over after school along with her husband and they all just sort of adopted my mom. No small feat because Mom was quite temperamental and often difficult. They hit it off wonderfully! Mom died at home about six months after Dad. Hospice care was quite wonderful and helpful.
I was very thankful that my dad had shown me all of their financial papers before he was seriously ill. When they moved to my town they set up a bank account that included me as an owner. That enabled me to pay the bills after my dad died. I also got POA for my mom at that time. These times were tough but we all did the best we could. One day at breakfast my brain-addled mom asked, Goodsearch, what do you want from me? I was taken aback but I said I wonder if you are content. She said, That I am.
Best of luck to you all!
posted by goodsearch at 1:53 PM on July 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
I was concerned that being in their own home would be too much for my dad so I asked our local Council on Aging for help in evaluating Dad's abilities. Dad had ended up with memory troubles as a result of his medical problems. It seemed like it would work out so I helped them shop for and buy a home in a Senior mobile home park. I lived just minutes away so I could help out after work. We hired a part-time caregiver as well. It all worked pretty well. My dad died about a year later.
We were lucky to be able to get an affordable live-in caregiver for my mom. The caregiver had her kids come over after school along with her husband and they all just sort of adopted my mom. No small feat because Mom was quite temperamental and often difficult. They hit it off wonderfully! Mom died at home about six months after Dad. Hospice care was quite wonderful and helpful.
I was very thankful that my dad had shown me all of their financial papers before he was seriously ill. When they moved to my town they set up a bank account that included me as an owner. That enabled me to pay the bills after my dad died. I also got POA for my mom at that time. These times were tough but we all did the best we could. One day at breakfast my brain-addled mom asked, Goodsearch, what do you want from me? I was taken aback but I said I wonder if you are content. She said, That I am.
Best of luck to you all!
posted by goodsearch at 1:53 PM on July 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
I ended up living 1500km away from my father so admin was at a remove. Dad had friends but they became stranger with time which did not help. Dad tended to 'collect' stuff, not quite a hoarder but lots of stuff - I'm very unsentimental - and it too ages and many talks to get him to reduce it, one day he proudly showed me the room where said stuff was sorted - it was nine banana boxes which looked pretty jumbled.
I later reduced the 9 large boxes to a wine box in two frenzied days - see my links for things you don't want to find and why you may (jurisdiction depending - for remainder of paragraph) want to visit your accountant (and maybe a lawyer) before you toss a deceased's house. There are things you don't want to find which if you know about them prior can be burned there and then; e.g. I found a tax document and took it to the accountant and he said "I wish I hadn't seen this...". Also some hazardous items can become legally yours when you take over - if you don't have the right paperwork/permits etc you are now an illegal owner of whatever it is.
A previous answer of mine about some essentials, especially from an only child perspective. And another answer more at the critical stage - they are both short narratives but you might find something useful.
Definitely see the will and get your own lawyer to parse it if you don't understand it: my dad didn't trust my wife and wrote something obscure into the will which cost me $10K+ to go to the high court so I could receive the estate - and I am an only child.
posted by unearthed at 2:28 PM on July 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
I later reduced the 9 large boxes to a wine box in two frenzied days - see my links for things you don't want to find and why you may (jurisdiction depending - for remainder of paragraph) want to visit your accountant (and maybe a lawyer) before you toss a deceased's house. There are things you don't want to find which if you know about them prior can be burned there and then; e.g. I found a tax document and took it to the accountant and he said "I wish I hadn't seen this...". Also some hazardous items can become legally yours when you take over - if you don't have the right paperwork/permits etc you are now an illegal owner of whatever it is.
A previous answer of mine about some essentials, especially from an only child perspective. And another answer more at the critical stage - they are both short narratives but you might find something useful.
Definitely see the will and get your own lawyer to parse it if you don't understand it: my dad didn't trust my wife and wrote something obscure into the will which cost me $10K+ to go to the high court so I could receive the estate - and I am an only child.
posted by unearthed at 2:28 PM on July 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also this is less of an issue for parents who live together but one of the other kindnesses my parents did before they died was had password lists so I could get into... stuff. This could be anything from their bank accounts (so much easier to pay bills in the few weeks after they died) to their email (replying to people, figuring out what OTHER things they may have had) and utility bills, as well and computer logins, Apple ID, that kind of thing. Having them use some sort of "financial dashboard" like Mint or something similar may be a way to help them look at their finances now and also help you know what their accounts are at a later time.
I found that in many cases, having access to their accounts for dumb stuff like the cable bill meant I could talk to reps "as" my parent and get them to change or fix stuff. There are a lot of rules you may bend or break in service of your aging or deceased parents, and it can all go a lot easier if you have the tools to make those decisions and not have to wrestle with some well-meaning, totally understandable, but ultimately obstructionist support representatives.
posted by jessamyn at 3:53 PM on July 25, 2020 [4 favorites]
I found that in many cases, having access to their accounts for dumb stuff like the cable bill meant I could talk to reps "as" my parent and get them to change or fix stuff. There are a lot of rules you may bend or break in service of your aging or deceased parents, and it can all go a lot easier if you have the tools to make those decisions and not have to wrestle with some well-meaning, totally understandable, but ultimately obstructionist support representatives.
posted by jessamyn at 3:53 PM on July 25, 2020 [4 favorites]
My grandparents lived together in a cottage in rural Ireland having returned there in their late 60s after 45 years in the UK. Their child and grandchildren lived in the UK. My grandmother had dementia, which became obvious to us about 6 or 7 years later. They managed pretty well for a few years because all the neighbours knew them and extended family lived in the area. When my grandfather was hospitalised with his heart, my grandmother had to go into a nursing home. She moved to a different, closer nursing home shortly afterwards and never left.
My grandfather had put some of his assets into his child's name (my parent) to make things easier. Unfortunately my parent died a couple of years later, before their parents/my grandparents. So that left the grandchildren owning the cottage. This caused my grandfather anxiety but he otherwise managed his own affairs with a lot of day-to-day support from a carer and one of his nephews. Eventually he became too frail and moved into a care home (different to my grandmother) at his own request. He died there after a few months. We rented out their cottage until my grandmother died a couple of years later, then we sold it.
We were really saved from this becoming a nightmare, by the fact that my grandfather had minimal cognitive decline, his affairs were pretty straightforward, and his/our extended family really took looked out for him. We dealt with an Irish solicitor with all of my grandparents affairs. In principle this was a good idea, but this particular solicitor was out of her depth with the international issues. An accountant friend of my grandfather also helped us and he was amazing. My grandmother was well loved and well visited (daily by her husband, weekly by her niece and frequently by others) and lasted a really long time in the nursing home. The last decade of their lives was difficult but not impossible. Even though living in a different country meant that we really weren't much help to them, the situation they were in was better than anything they could have had in the UK.
posted by plonkee at 5:35 AM on July 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
My grandfather had put some of his assets into his child's name (my parent) to make things easier. Unfortunately my parent died a couple of years later, before their parents/my grandparents. So that left the grandchildren owning the cottage. This caused my grandfather anxiety but he otherwise managed his own affairs with a lot of day-to-day support from a carer and one of his nephews. Eventually he became too frail and moved into a care home (different to my grandmother) at his own request. He died there after a few months. We rented out their cottage until my grandmother died a couple of years later, then we sold it.
We were really saved from this becoming a nightmare, by the fact that my grandfather had minimal cognitive decline, his affairs were pretty straightforward, and his/our extended family really took looked out for him. We dealt with an Irish solicitor with all of my grandparents affairs. In principle this was a good idea, but this particular solicitor was out of her depth with the international issues. An accountant friend of my grandfather also helped us and he was amazing. My grandmother was well loved and well visited (daily by her husband, weekly by her niece and frequently by others) and lasted a really long time in the nursing home. The last decade of their lives was difficult but not impossible. Even though living in a different country meant that we really weren't much help to them, the situation they were in was better than anything they could have had in the UK.
posted by plonkee at 5:35 AM on July 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
We are the “aging parents”, 73 and 74 and still in very good health. We downsized from the big house into a one-story condo. Our son has copies of all our papers: wills, health care POA and such. He is listed as a co-signer on all our bank accounts and is the beneficiary of our investments. Also, and I think this is really important, we signed a paper allowing our investment advisor (long time trusted friend) to contact our son if he sees any signs of mental decline in us.
posted by serendipityrules at 9:13 AM on July 26, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by serendipityrules at 9:13 AM on July 26, 2020 [3 favorites]
A difficult but necessary conversation to have with your aging parents is the one about what type of measures they want to be kept alive, should they suffer a debilitating heart attack or stroke. My Dad had a heart attack at age 83 (he'd undergone a quintuple bypass about 8 years previously). Anyway, he was on a respirator and the doctor and hospital counselors brought my Mom and us kids the "Do Not Resuscitate" paperwork just in case we wanted to sign it. It suddenly occurred to Mom and us that none of us knew what Dad's wishes were.... Would he want to be kept alive on machines? Does he want to be buried or cremated if the worst case scenario happened? Because of his age his ribs were fragile and we were warned that should he go into cardiac arrest again chest compressions would likely break some ribs.
We were extremely fortunate in that the day after we'd been presented with the DNR paperwork and asked for a day to "think about it", Dad rallied and was able to be taken off the respirator. He spent some time in rehab, but he eventually came home and was with us another four years. (And we did discuss his wishes about medical intervention and burial vs cremation once he was up to snuff. (Granted, he still balked at talking about "death" stuff but Mom eventually pried some of his thoughts on the matter out of him.)
posted by Oriole Adams at 12:16 PM on July 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
We were extremely fortunate in that the day after we'd been presented with the DNR paperwork and asked for a day to "think about it", Dad rallied and was able to be taken off the respirator. He spent some time in rehab, but he eventually came home and was with us another four years. (And we did discuss his wishes about medical intervention and burial vs cremation once he was up to snuff. (Granted, he still balked at talking about "death" stuff but Mom eventually pried some of his thoughts on the matter out of him.)
posted by Oriole Adams at 12:16 PM on July 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
My grandmother passed away in December. She was 99. My mom has two brothers. The younger is 16 years younger.
Talk. Talk and talk and talk. Get your siblings to really talk about how life will be among yourselves. Who will do what. Who *can* do what. What actions require approval of everyone. Then talk with your parents. Having a baseline agreement on what will happen will boost morale.
I say this because, my grandmother lived independently, with challenges, until she was 90. At that point, my youngest uncle decided, by himself, that my grandmother was moving in with him. So he moved her into his tiny, tiny house without contacting my mom or my uncle. He is a born-again, fundamentalist who, at the time, was "homeschooling" the last 4 of his 8 children, in his 3 bedroom house. My grandmother lived in a small closet. The bathroom was not super close. The other bedrooms were on the floors above and below. So, she'd wake up to go to the bathroom and no one would hear her. She fell on multiple occasions. No one seemed to be there to help her when she needed help. My uncle had made the case that, surely, with 6 people in the house, somebody would be there to help her. It did not end up being the case. Once, when she was alone, she got hungry. She went to fry an egg. Her sight was not good because of cataracts, so, she couldn't tell if the stove was lit. She leaned down for a closer look and lit her hair on fire. The last straw was that my uncle and his wife "had forgotten" to give my grandmother her antibiotics for almost 2 months for a UTI. She was admitted into the hospital with SEPSIS. She never went back to my uncle's house. She went to hospice from there.
I believe this whole care-situation could have been talked about and agreed to or not agreed-to...but...it never was. A unilateral decision was made. The animosity continues to run deep. Probably forever.
Talk.
Plan. Who has POA? End of Life conversation? DNR? Is the deed for her house in her name? Titles for vehicles? Social Security information? Pensions? Are the held stocks in her name? Bank account? Will? Trust? How will you choose to liquidate Talk it through. Get these sorted ASAP. Each one will take time and patience to get right. Changing the name of a stockholder who died 26 years ago was a weeks-long process that was right out of the film Brazil. You will never be sorry to have those things figured out.
Be kind to yourself and each other. These are difficult things to talk about let alone do. Be patient with each other and keep moving on.
I am having these conversations with my siblings now about my parents.
Be well, friend.
posted by zerobyproxy at 12:18 PM on July 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
Talk. Talk and talk and talk. Get your siblings to really talk about how life will be among yourselves. Who will do what. Who *can* do what. What actions require approval of everyone. Then talk with your parents. Having a baseline agreement on what will happen will boost morale.
I say this because, my grandmother lived independently, with challenges, until she was 90. At that point, my youngest uncle decided, by himself, that my grandmother was moving in with him. So he moved her into his tiny, tiny house without contacting my mom or my uncle. He is a born-again, fundamentalist who, at the time, was "homeschooling" the last 4 of his 8 children, in his 3 bedroom house. My grandmother lived in a small closet. The bathroom was not super close. The other bedrooms were on the floors above and below. So, she'd wake up to go to the bathroom and no one would hear her. She fell on multiple occasions. No one seemed to be there to help her when she needed help. My uncle had made the case that, surely, with 6 people in the house, somebody would be there to help her. It did not end up being the case. Once, when she was alone, she got hungry. She went to fry an egg. Her sight was not good because of cataracts, so, she couldn't tell if the stove was lit. She leaned down for a closer look and lit her hair on fire. The last straw was that my uncle and his wife "had forgotten" to give my grandmother her antibiotics for almost 2 months for a UTI. She was admitted into the hospital with SEPSIS. She never went back to my uncle's house. She went to hospice from there.
I believe this whole care-situation could have been talked about and agreed to or not agreed-to...but...it never was. A unilateral decision was made. The animosity continues to run deep. Probably forever.
Talk.
Plan. Who has POA? End of Life conversation? DNR? Is the deed for her house in her name? Titles for vehicles? Social Security information? Pensions? Are the held stocks in her name? Bank account? Will? Trust? How will you choose to liquidate Talk it through. Get these sorted ASAP. Each one will take time and patience to get right. Changing the name of a stockholder who died 26 years ago was a weeks-long process that was right out of the film Brazil. You will never be sorry to have those things figured out.
Be kind to yourself and each other. These are difficult things to talk about let alone do. Be patient with each other and keep moving on.
I am having these conversations with my siblings now about my parents.
Be well, friend.
posted by zerobyproxy at 12:18 PM on July 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
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There are specific details and family issues we had to wrestle with. It might come off as more a cautionary tale, but I also know (from talking with others) that our experience wasn't exactly uncommon.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:14 AM on July 25, 2020 [4 favorites]