Reasonable strength standards for small women?
February 18, 2020 11:05 PM Subscribe
My wife claims to be too weak to do many everyday tasks that do not strike me as being particularly difficult. Stuff like, grating cheddar cheese, or carrying a hamper of dry, loosely packed laundry down the hallway, or lifting a 12" frying pan (triply, not cast iron or carbon steel) off the stove. But I am not a small woman myself, so I don't really trust my intuitions about what she should be able to do. Is this a real thing?
The reason I'm even asking is,
1. I see plenty of women doing things that look similarly difficult. E.g., neither my mother nor my sister, both about my wife's size, report any trouble carrying laundry hampers or lifting frying pans.
2. The things she claims to be unable to do seems to rise to the level of disability. E.g., she owned a cat for years before we met. How did she get it new litter? Apparently, she got friends and neighbors to put her kitty litter by the litter box for her, where she could portion it out a liter or two at a time.
3. I'm not super excited about the example we'll set for our children if I get called for anything heavier than three pounds. That's not hyperbole. I weighed our frying pan.
This is a bit of a confused question because I'm not sure what I'll do if everyone tells me my wife is abnormally weak. I guess at some level I'm kind of hoping the answer will be, no, this is fine, women are just much, much weaker.
Except I can't really bring myself to believe that. I don't consider myself particularly strong. I sit at a desk all day. And the things she asks me to do feel trivial.
The reason I'm even asking is,
1. I see plenty of women doing things that look similarly difficult. E.g., neither my mother nor my sister, both about my wife's size, report any trouble carrying laundry hampers or lifting frying pans.
2. The things she claims to be unable to do seems to rise to the level of disability. E.g., she owned a cat for years before we met. How did she get it new litter? Apparently, she got friends and neighbors to put her kitty litter by the litter box for her, where she could portion it out a liter or two at a time.
3. I'm not super excited about the example we'll set for our children if I get called for anything heavier than three pounds. That's not hyperbole. I weighed our frying pan.
This is a bit of a confused question because I'm not sure what I'll do if everyone tells me my wife is abnormally weak. I guess at some level I'm kind of hoping the answer will be, no, this is fine, women are just much, much weaker.
Except I can't really bring myself to believe that. I don't consider myself particularly strong. I sit at a desk all day. And the things she asks me to do feel trivial.
Generally, it's best to believe people when they say that they can't do something safely.
I'm pretty strong, but my mum has weak shoulders and reduced mobility in one arm (you can't tell by looking), and there is stuff that she should not do/can not do that I can do easily. She's one of those people who will push herself to do something in order to get something done even if she shouldn't, though, and snapped her shoulder tendon a couple of years ago. Us kids were stronger than her at fairly young ages, and at that point, we became second in command for heavy lifting. I assume that will happen with your kids too. most kids like to show off their strength a bit.
However, there are a lot of engineering and design solutions you can implement to make her less dependent on you. A laundry hamper trolley, smaller hampers, or putting the hamper near the washing machine. Buying a lighter frying pan, or one with a handle at the other side so it can be lifted with two hands. Electrical cheese graters.
You might also consider her having a consult with an occupational therapist (to adapt your house/tasks) or physical therapist (to build up strength).
posted by kjs4 at 11:33 PM on February 18, 2020 [28 favorites]
I'm pretty strong, but my mum has weak shoulders and reduced mobility in one arm (you can't tell by looking), and there is stuff that she should not do/can not do that I can do easily. She's one of those people who will push herself to do something in order to get something done even if she shouldn't, though, and snapped her shoulder tendon a couple of years ago. Us kids were stronger than her at fairly young ages, and at that point, we became second in command for heavy lifting. I assume that will happen with your kids too. most kids like to show off their strength a bit.
However, there are a lot of engineering and design solutions you can implement to make her less dependent on you. A laundry hamper trolley, smaller hampers, or putting the hamper near the washing machine. Buying a lighter frying pan, or one with a handle at the other side so it can be lifted with two hands. Electrical cheese graters.
You might also consider her having a consult with an occupational therapist (to adapt your house/tasks) or physical therapist (to build up strength).
posted by kjs4 at 11:33 PM on February 18, 2020 [28 favorites]
Is it possible the drivers for this tendency of hers, are not that she’s a woman nor that she is “weak”, but is .... in pain? Is carrying the effects of trauma? Is carrying fear of hurting herself or overdoing it such that she would find herself able to do even less? I suspect there’s some history here, that you are not aware of. And perhaps she’s not fully aware of (yet it and its’ effects are indeed quite real).
The word “should” is going to derail the conversations you need to have with her. Get rid of it before it destroys any chance of productive progress. I think you might try reframing what you’d like to see, or what your expectations of her are, but just dispense with the word “should”. It ain’t gonna help.
Consider, before you raise this, spending some time reflecting on and being honest with yourself about what the real problem is here. If she needs help, is it too much for you — really? Are you afraid , and if so, of what? That’s a valid feeling, and can be discussed with her. But don’t project your fears on to her as “should” ‘s. It’s possible she’s doing the best she can, given whatever it is/was that created this tendency.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 11:34 PM on February 18, 2020 [25 favorites]
The word “should” is going to derail the conversations you need to have with her. Get rid of it before it destroys any chance of productive progress. I think you might try reframing what you’d like to see, or what your expectations of her are, but just dispense with the word “should”. It ain’t gonna help.
Consider, before you raise this, spending some time reflecting on and being honest with yourself about what the real problem is here. If she needs help, is it too much for you — really? Are you afraid , and if so, of what? That’s a valid feeling, and can be discussed with her. But don’t project your fears on to her as “should” ‘s. It’s possible she’s doing the best she can, given whatever it is/was that created this tendency.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 11:34 PM on February 18, 2020 [25 favorites]
Re: “ I'm not super excited about the example we'll set for our children if I get called for anything heavier than three pounds.”
You’d be giving them a tremendous gift. Showing them how good things can come from two people working together to solve problems to help one another. Even better: invite them to be part of it. It would be an amazing thing for your children to see and partake in.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 11:39 PM on February 18, 2020 [33 favorites]
You’d be giving them a tremendous gift. Showing them how good things can come from two people working together to solve problems to help one another. Even better: invite them to be part of it. It would be an amazing thing for your children to see and partake in.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 11:39 PM on February 18, 2020 [33 favorites]
Do you have children? Was she able to hold/carry the children? If so, I wonder if she might have mental blocks or triggers around certain types of activities. Or, if particular movements cause her pain, it’s probably worth exploring a possible medical explanation.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 11:40 PM on February 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by WaspEnterprises at 11:40 PM on February 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is a bit of a confused question because I'm not sure what I'll do if everyone tells me my wife is abnormally weak. I guess at some level I'm kind of hoping the answer will be, no, this is fine, women are just much, much weaker.
I hear you on this. It's very scary to confront the possibility that someone you love may have an illness or a disability. You know, I think, that the answer here is no, women are not "just much, much weaker." The human body is capable of possessing a myriad of strength levels ranging from fuck, lifting anything makes my muscles and nerves and bones cry out, to listen, I am gonna lift a fucking car over you because I can. "Reasonability" is a subjective thing. Move that off the table as you approach this topic with your wife.
So, there are a few things to consider here.
1. Communication. Your wife may have pain she feels uncomfortable discussing. Maybe it's out of fear, maybe it's because she herself doesn't know how to explain it, maybe she's worried your perception of her will change drastically if she talks about it. Would you feel comfortable saying to her, "I love you. I've noticed you don't feel comfortable lifting or carrying certain things. Can we talk about it?"
2. Fear. If your wife says yes, I have pain, or yes,I am worried about picking something up and not being able to keep it steady, and that makes you feel uncomfortable/scared/whatever, that's ok. It is okay to be nervous about this. You can admit that to her. "Thank you for telling me. I have been worried about you. I love you so much and I will be honest, this scares me. But I want to help."
3. Predicting the future. You don't have all the information right now. You have your perceptions of what you've witnessed and experienced. You can't predict the future based on that alone. You are partners. Together, you can gather more info. This is why working together on next steps can be good. For me, that would look something like asking, "Where do you feel the most pain or worry when you pick something up? What if we tracked that together and then brought that info to our doctor? Then they can help us figure out what's what. Would that be ok?"
4. Self-reflection. Your expectations about your dynamic as a couple are going to come into play here. How can you support your partner if you don't believe her or think she's being ridiculous re: her own strength? Where is that coming from? Why does that make you feel upset? Why would you feel frustrated if your children see you help your wife with something she needs help with? You need to workshop those thoughts on your own. Those things aren't hers to process with you.
5. Love. She may not want to talk to you about this. If you've expressed disbelief or judgement already in the past, she may not feel safe telling you what is happening. Reassuring her that you love and respect her in the way that she responds to best is going to be crucial here.
It is clear you care for your wife. It's also clear to me, an internet stranger, that you are scared, and that you may have some baggage you need to unpack about how you view women, strength, etc.
Others will have better advice. This is just what comes to mind for me when I consider the things you've laid out. Sending good thoughts for a resolution you and your family all feel okay about.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 11:45 PM on February 18, 2020 [49 favorites]
I hear you on this. It's very scary to confront the possibility that someone you love may have an illness or a disability. You know, I think, that the answer here is no, women are not "just much, much weaker." The human body is capable of possessing a myriad of strength levels ranging from fuck, lifting anything makes my muscles and nerves and bones cry out, to listen, I am gonna lift a fucking car over you because I can. "Reasonability" is a subjective thing. Move that off the table as you approach this topic with your wife.
So, there are a few things to consider here.
1. Communication. Your wife may have pain she feels uncomfortable discussing. Maybe it's out of fear, maybe it's because she herself doesn't know how to explain it, maybe she's worried your perception of her will change drastically if she talks about it. Would you feel comfortable saying to her, "I love you. I've noticed you don't feel comfortable lifting or carrying certain things. Can we talk about it?"
2. Fear. If your wife says yes, I have pain, or yes,I am worried about picking something up and not being able to keep it steady, and that makes you feel uncomfortable/scared/whatever, that's ok. It is okay to be nervous about this. You can admit that to her. "Thank you for telling me. I have been worried about you. I love you so much and I will be honest, this scares me. But I want to help."
3. Predicting the future. You don't have all the information right now. You have your perceptions of what you've witnessed and experienced. You can't predict the future based on that alone. You are partners. Together, you can gather more info. This is why working together on next steps can be good. For me, that would look something like asking, "Where do you feel the most pain or worry when you pick something up? What if we tracked that together and then brought that info to our doctor? Then they can help us figure out what's what. Would that be ok?"
4. Self-reflection. Your expectations about your dynamic as a couple are going to come into play here. How can you support your partner if you don't believe her or think she's being ridiculous re: her own strength? Where is that coming from? Why does that make you feel upset? Why would you feel frustrated if your children see you help your wife with something she needs help with? You need to workshop those thoughts on your own. Those things aren't hers to process with you.
5. Love. She may not want to talk to you about this. If you've expressed disbelief or judgement already in the past, she may not feel safe telling you what is happening. Reassuring her that you love and respect her in the way that she responds to best is going to be crucial here.
It is clear you care for your wife. It's also clear to me, an internet stranger, that you are scared, and that you may have some baggage you need to unpack about how you view women, strength, etc.
Others will have better advice. This is just what comes to mind for me when I consider the things you've laid out. Sending good thoughts for a resolution you and your family all feel okay about.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 11:45 PM on February 18, 2020 [49 favorites]
Some things are awkward as a smaller/shorter person, in ways you might not expect. I’m pretty strong for a woman my height, but I don’t like carrying the hamper around because my arms are short and it’s big and rubs them funny and bumps into my shins in a frustrating way. I also don’t like kneading bread on our counters- it’s not heavy to lift and work the dough but it’s annoying and the counters are juuuust too high enough that I have to stand on a little stool to do it effectively and I feel the same way about our cheese grating setup. She may categorize something as “too heavy” but it’s possible she means more like “difficult to deal with.” 40 lb bags of kitty litter- is that what you are talking about? that’s the size of the kitty litter bags at my house- are also legit heavy and hard for a lot of people to maneuver.
Here’s what I would be thinking about instead, though: if she were asked, what would she say about the division of labor in your household? You guys are in a partnership and she’s asking you to do some things that, for whatever reason, she feels would be easier for you to do than for her. You can pick a fight with her about *why* she’d like your help or you could do them as a small part of your contribution to a functioning and happy household. Spouses are on the same team and living together is a lot simpler when everyone agrees they’re all going to try their hardest as a member of Team Us.
Further thoughts: it would be okay for her to ask for help with tasks even if they weren’t easier for you to do than her. Does she know this? Do you push back when asked to help with things, and is it possible she has unconsciously chosen this strategy so you feel obligated to pitch in?
posted by charmedimsure at 11:49 PM on February 18, 2020 [27 favorites]
Here’s what I would be thinking about instead, though: if she were asked, what would she say about the division of labor in your household? You guys are in a partnership and she’s asking you to do some things that, for whatever reason, she feels would be easier for you to do than for her. You can pick a fight with her about *why* she’d like your help or you could do them as a small part of your contribution to a functioning and happy household. Spouses are on the same team and living together is a lot simpler when everyone agrees they’re all going to try their hardest as a member of Team Us.
Further thoughts: it would be okay for her to ask for help with tasks even if they weren’t easier for you to do than her. Does she know this? Do you push back when asked to help with things, and is it possible she has unconsciously chosen this strategy so you feel obligated to pitch in?
posted by charmedimsure at 11:49 PM on February 18, 2020 [27 favorites]
It's definitely worth getting checked out medically, because it does rise to the level of disability. And it seems important to figure out because it might get worse over time, and because possibly (but only possibly) there are things that can be done to treat it. (I'm a woman, and while I don't think I've gotten weaker my pain and fatigue levels have been increasing such that ordinary tasks have become problematic. I'm still not in as bad shape as you describe, and it must be frustrating for her to live that way.)
posted by trig at 11:49 PM on February 18, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by trig at 11:49 PM on February 18, 2020 [15 favorites]
One more thing: I recommend not trying to armchair diagnose her. You are not her doctor, but in an effort to Figure Things Out and Fix Them Immediately you may feel compelled to do that to soothe yourself. If Googling the words, "what causes upper body pain", "why is it hard for me to lift light things", etc, will give you context and some food for thought, though, maybe starting there would be ok. Just don't blame her or try to "fix" her. That won't help.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 11:54 PM on February 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitchen Witch at 11:54 PM on February 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
So... I took up strength training about a year ago, but even before then I was always (as an adult, obviously) noticeably stronger than my mother, even when I was more slightly-built than I am today. Maybe stronger on average than my female friends, although lifting heavy things didn't come up as often, so I'm not sure. Part of the reason that I took up strength training as a form of exercise is that it seemed like fun and something that I'd be able to do.
It's not about size; it's about build and muscle mass, and some of it must be genetics, because I did zero exercise before I started doing this and I'm a software developer who sits around all day.
I'm kind of with the other people in wondering what you're actually asking and what you want the outcome here to be. Because reading between the lines it sounds like you see your wife's lack of physical strength as a personal failing that she should do something about, so that she doesn't "set a bad example" for your hypothetical children. And that's a bit worrying.
The difference in strength between me and my mother is something that I can observe, but it doesn't upset me -- I don't think that she's not lifting heavy things at me.
Maybe your wife has an underlying medical condition. Maybe she just has a very non-muscular build, and if she worked out she would get stronger. But why should she have to?
I get some of your concerns. You share a life and a household with her, and her inability to do certain tasks affects you. It's normal, on some level, to want to eliminate something that you see as a problem. But there is very little difference between this and asking if it's normal for your wife to be the weight that she is, because she seems overweight to you compared to other women -- and it's just as likely to be viscerally upsetting to her if you criticise her body in this way and pressure her to do something to change it. I don't think that ever has the desired effect, and it's an unkind thing to do.
posted by confluency at 11:56 PM on February 18, 2020 [12 favorites]
It's not about size; it's about build and muscle mass, and some of it must be genetics, because I did zero exercise before I started doing this and I'm a software developer who sits around all day.
I'm kind of with the other people in wondering what you're actually asking and what you want the outcome here to be. Because reading between the lines it sounds like you see your wife's lack of physical strength as a personal failing that she should do something about, so that she doesn't "set a bad example" for your hypothetical children. And that's a bit worrying.
The difference in strength between me and my mother is something that I can observe, but it doesn't upset me -- I don't think that she's not lifting heavy things at me.
Maybe your wife has an underlying medical condition. Maybe she just has a very non-muscular build, and if she worked out she would get stronger. But why should she have to?
I get some of your concerns. You share a life and a household with her, and her inability to do certain tasks affects you. It's normal, on some level, to want to eliminate something that you see as a problem. But there is very little difference between this and asking if it's normal for your wife to be the weight that she is, because she seems overweight to you compared to other women -- and it's just as likely to be viscerally upsetting to her if you criticise her body in this way and pressure her to do something to change it. I don't think that ever has the desired effect, and it's an unkind thing to do.
posted by confluency at 11:56 PM on February 18, 2020 [12 favorites]
Yeah, I would ask yourself why this is a argument you want to win. The examples you give are around housework tasks, and this sounds like you suspect that she is bluffing to make you do more housework. In which case you might ask yourself why she would feel driven to such extremes - do you have a truly equal share of housework, do you have genderised expectations of the domestic load in your house?
I get joint pains and fatigue from my migraines. Some days I'm shifting furniture and hauling things up stairs. Other days I have to ask my kids to open cans and drink from plastic cups so I don't knock over a glass. I save semi-regular household projects for strong days and do the less physical regular jobs daily. Other people do the heavy daily jobs.
People who can't carry heavy things or have physical limits take care of babies with appropriate tools and support. Sure I'd love to be super fit and physically capable as a parent but I'm not. Parenting isn't reserved for athletes. My kids had/have fairly physically active childhoods even though I'm on the sideline of much of it.
Other commenters are being really patient and gentle in their responses. I have been questioned and doubted for my ability to parent due to illnesses, and I'm just going to be blunt: I have no trust or respect for those people now. They don't respect or trust me by questioning my statements of how I feel and my capabilities already. Think really really hard before you ask your wife to prove she's telling the truth.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:59 PM on February 18, 2020 [22 favorites]
I get joint pains and fatigue from my migraines. Some days I'm shifting furniture and hauling things up stairs. Other days I have to ask my kids to open cans and drink from plastic cups so I don't knock over a glass. I save semi-regular household projects for strong days and do the less physical regular jobs daily. Other people do the heavy daily jobs.
People who can't carry heavy things or have physical limits take care of babies with appropriate tools and support. Sure I'd love to be super fit and physically capable as a parent but I'm not. Parenting isn't reserved for athletes. My kids had/have fairly physically active childhoods even though I'm on the sideline of much of it.
Other commenters are being really patient and gentle in their responses. I have been questioned and doubted for my ability to parent due to illnesses, and I'm just going to be blunt: I have no trust or respect for those people now. They don't respect or trust me by questioning my statements of how I feel and my capabilities already. Think really really hard before you ask your wife to prove she's telling the truth.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:59 PM on February 18, 2020 [22 favorites]
I am a small woman - 5 feet tall, not particularly muscular. Compared to my sister, who is roughly the same size, my arms and upper body seem weak. But I can easily do all those things. I can lift and pour a one-gallon jug of milk or laundry detergent one-handed. If I buy a 30 pound bag of dog food or a 40 pound bag of birdseed, I can carry it to the car.
Being that weak seems like a significant problem to me. It means she can't do a lot of ordinary tasks that are part of daily life. If she doesn't have a medical problem, there's no reason she can't do some exercising and develop enough strength that she can be more self-reliant and make life easier for herself.
If I were you, I guess I'd start by pointing out to her that a lot of women around her size seem able to lift heavier things than she can lift and suggesting that she could undoubtedly gain strength by working out a little. It wouldn't have to be going to the gym and lifting weights; it could just be repeatedly lifting household objects that feel a little heavy, gradually working up to the frying pan. She may just not realize that she could be stronger than she is now. If she's resistant to that idea, I don't know what to advise.
posted by Redstart at 12:01 AM on February 19, 2020 [21 favorites]
Being that weak seems like a significant problem to me. It means she can't do a lot of ordinary tasks that are part of daily life. If she doesn't have a medical problem, there's no reason she can't do some exercising and develop enough strength that she can be more self-reliant and make life easier for herself.
If I were you, I guess I'd start by pointing out to her that a lot of women around her size seem able to lift heavier things than she can lift and suggesting that she could undoubtedly gain strength by working out a little. It wouldn't have to be going to the gym and lifting weights; it could just be repeatedly lifting household objects that feel a little heavy, gradually working up to the frying pan. She may just not realize that she could be stronger than she is now. If she's resistant to that idea, I don't know what to advise.
posted by Redstart at 12:01 AM on February 19, 2020 [21 favorites]
What does her doctor say, because it sounds like she needs to get checked out. Comparing her to other women does either of you no good, you’re not married to them - what are the two of you going to do about your wife’s very specific issue? If it’s medical, it needs to be addressed, if it’s simply a case of building up muscle strength that can also be addressed most likely with a gym or physical therapy. If it’s psychological or a division of labour thing, that can be worked out too but you need to know which of these it is. None of us do you or your marriage any favours by jumping to conclusions about what it might be.
posted by Jubey at 12:18 AM on February 19, 2020 [18 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 12:18 AM on February 19, 2020 [18 favorites]
I'm a little confused by the context of this question. The fact that she's your wife implies that you've presumably been together for at least a little while. Has this always been the case? Have you only just started living together?
Why can't you talk to her about this, in an honest way, saying that you're not sure why things which are relatively light pose a challenge to her, whether it's painful or not and whether she's asked a doctor about it?
posted by Cannon Fodder at 12:18 AM on February 19, 2020 [13 favorites]
Why can't you talk to her about this, in an honest way, saying that you're not sure why things which are relatively light pose a challenge to her, whether it's painful or not and whether she's asked a doctor about it?
posted by Cannon Fodder at 12:18 AM on February 19, 2020 [13 favorites]
You, and possibly your wife, don’t know if trying to get stronger would damage her - or if *not* trying to get stronger would damage her. I know people who have lived to regret each approach. Even with medical advice sometimes it’s a gamble.
I think you should believe her, and lift the things, and arrange stuff to be easier for her; but you shouldn’t have to pretend that you find not worrying until you know what’s normal for her.
posted by clew at 12:22 AM on February 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think you should believe her, and lift the things, and arrange stuff to be easier for her; but you shouldn’t have to pretend that you find not worrying until you know what’s normal for her.
posted by clew at 12:22 AM on February 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm a female of average height. I have rheumatoid arthritis and suffer extreme fatigue. I can still do all those things just fine (and have to, the cats won't help). But if I had a partner I'd be very happy to offload many tasks. I suspect that the way she's phrasing it isn't necessarily accurate, but hey, we have to divide tasks up somehow.
I don't think it's a problematic example for your children. It shows we share jobs. If carrying something is easier for you than her then that's a good way to divide chores. I wouldn't give a little kid a grocery bag of canned goods to carry into the house; carrying the bread is just as useful.
How much do you do around the home, including mental load tasks? She might've decided this is the line in the sand, i.e. if it's down to her to do all the planning and organising, maybe she just gives you the 'heavy' jobs because it's a handy way to divide them up. I fricking hate hate taking the rubbish bins to the street, I'm physically capable but if I ever had a partner or roommate that's becoming their chore or I'll stay single! Grating cheese does hurt my wrists so I don't do it but before I had joint problems I just really hated the grater and chose to live without it.
posted by kitten magic at 12:45 AM on February 19, 2020 [10 favorites]
I don't think it's a problematic example for your children. It shows we share jobs. If carrying something is easier for you than her then that's a good way to divide chores. I wouldn't give a little kid a grocery bag of canned goods to carry into the house; carrying the bread is just as useful.
How much do you do around the home, including mental load tasks? She might've decided this is the line in the sand, i.e. if it's down to her to do all the planning and organising, maybe she just gives you the 'heavy' jobs because it's a handy way to divide them up. I fricking hate hate taking the rubbish bins to the street, I'm physically capable but if I ever had a partner or roommate that's becoming their chore or I'll stay single! Grating cheese does hurt my wrists so I don't do it but before I had joint problems I just really hated the grater and chose to live without it.
posted by kitten magic at 12:45 AM on February 19, 2020 [10 favorites]
I'm a short woman. When I was 16/17 I used to be strong enough to break up concrete with a pickaxe and a crowbar. And I broke up a whole bunch of concrete voluntarily, to build a permaculture garden and to have a physical outlet for exam stress.
Later in life, I developed chronic hand and wrist pain. Now there are days I genuinely struggle to lift a 1 kilogram bag of sugar. It's partly about grip strength and partly about pain - not just pain at the time, lifting too-heavy objects can cause me pain for days or even weeks...
When my pain was at its worst [shoulder bursitis], even lifting a spoon full of food to my mouth or turning a lightswitch on/off was genuinely agonising...
Pain levels can fluctuate a lot depending on
- weather - cold weather makes them worse
- lack of sleep
- inflammation from colds or flu
so what someone can do on Monday they can't necessarily do on Tuesday.
posted by Murderbot at 12:54 AM on February 19, 2020 [14 favorites]
Later in life, I developed chronic hand and wrist pain. Now there are days I genuinely struggle to lift a 1 kilogram bag of sugar. It's partly about grip strength and partly about pain - not just pain at the time, lifting too-heavy objects can cause me pain for days or even weeks...
When my pain was at its worst [shoulder bursitis], even lifting a spoon full of food to my mouth or turning a lightswitch on/off was genuinely agonising...
Pain levels can fluctuate a lot depending on
- weather - cold weather makes them worse
- lack of sleep
- inflammation from colds or flu
so what someone can do on Monday they can't necessarily do on Tuesday.
posted by Murderbot at 12:54 AM on February 19, 2020 [14 favorites]
Also: people with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome have joints that are easily damaged by lifting objects many people would consider trivially light. Ehlers-Danlos syndrome is very common in women, and MASSIVELY under diagnosed - it's a possibility for your wife.
posted by Murderbot at 12:57 AM on February 19, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by Murderbot at 12:57 AM on February 19, 2020 [17 favorites]
Also: pregnancy and breastfeeding cause hormones that make ligaments looser and more at risk of injury, and these effects can last for months or years. Has your wifes physical abilities noticeably changed since her first pregnancy?
posted by Murderbot at 1:01 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Murderbot at 1:01 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
"What are the symptoms of Ehlers-Danlos syndromes?
Clinical manifestations of an Ehlers-Danlos syndrome are most often joint and skin related and may include:
Joints
Joint hypermobility; loose/unstable joints which are prone to frequent dislocations and/or subluxations; joint pain; hyperextensible joints (they move beyond the joint’s normal range); early onset of osteoarthritis.
Skin
Soft velvety-like skin; variable skin hyper-extensibility; fragile skin that tears or bruises easily (bruising may be severe); severe scarring; slow and poor wound healing; development of molluscoid pseudo tumors (fleshy lesions associated with scars over pressure areas).
Miscellaneous/Less Common
Chronic, early onset, debilitating musculoskeletal pain (usually associated with the Hypermobility Type); arterial/intestinal/uterine fragility or rupture (usually associated with the Vascular Type); scoliosis at birth and scleral fragility (associated with the Kyphoscoliosis Type); poor muscle tone (associated with the Arthrochalasia Type); mitral valve prolapse; and gum disease.
Each type of Ehlers-Danlos syndrome is defined as a distinct problem in connective tissue. Connective tissue is what the body uses to provide strength and elasticity; normal connective tissue holds strong proteins that allow tissue to be stretched but not beyond its limit, and then safely return that tissue to normal. Connective tissue is found throughout the body, and Ehlers-Danlos syndromes are structural problems. An analogy: If one builds a house with faulty materials, say half the necessary wood or with soft aluminum nails, it is certain there will be problems. Some problems are more likely to show up than others, but because those materials were used everywhere and are not necessarily visible, one can be surprised by where a problem shows up or how serious it is.
It is much the same thing with an Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and connective tissue.
The connective tissue a person with EDS is built with is not structured the way it should be. With a badly-constructed or processed connective tissue, some or all of the tissue in the EDS-affected body can be pulled beyond normal limits which causes damage. Connective tissue can be found almost anywhere, in skin, muscles, tendons and ligaments, blood vessels, organs, gums, eyes, and so on.
The problems resulting from one’s body being built out of a protein that behaves unreliably can be widespread and in a wide range of severity. It shows up in places that seem unrelated until the underlying connection to an Ehlers-Danlos syndrome is recognized."
posted by Murderbot at 1:07 AM on February 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
Clinical manifestations of an Ehlers-Danlos syndrome are most often joint and skin related and may include:
Joints
Joint hypermobility; loose/unstable joints which are prone to frequent dislocations and/or subluxations; joint pain; hyperextensible joints (they move beyond the joint’s normal range); early onset of osteoarthritis.
Skin
Soft velvety-like skin; variable skin hyper-extensibility; fragile skin that tears or bruises easily (bruising may be severe); severe scarring; slow and poor wound healing; development of molluscoid pseudo tumors (fleshy lesions associated with scars over pressure areas).
Miscellaneous/Less Common
Chronic, early onset, debilitating musculoskeletal pain (usually associated with the Hypermobility Type); arterial/intestinal/uterine fragility or rupture (usually associated with the Vascular Type); scoliosis at birth and scleral fragility (associated with the Kyphoscoliosis Type); poor muscle tone (associated with the Arthrochalasia Type); mitral valve prolapse; and gum disease.
Each type of Ehlers-Danlos syndrome is defined as a distinct problem in connective tissue. Connective tissue is what the body uses to provide strength and elasticity; normal connective tissue holds strong proteins that allow tissue to be stretched but not beyond its limit, and then safely return that tissue to normal. Connective tissue is found throughout the body, and Ehlers-Danlos syndromes are structural problems. An analogy: If one builds a house with faulty materials, say half the necessary wood or with soft aluminum nails, it is certain there will be problems. Some problems are more likely to show up than others, but because those materials were used everywhere and are not necessarily visible, one can be surprised by where a problem shows up or how serious it is.
It is much the same thing with an Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and connective tissue.
The connective tissue a person with EDS is built with is not structured the way it should be. With a badly-constructed or processed connective tissue, some or all of the tissue in the EDS-affected body can be pulled beyond normal limits which causes damage. Connective tissue can be found almost anywhere, in skin, muscles, tendons and ligaments, blood vessels, organs, gums, eyes, and so on.
The problems resulting from one’s body being built out of a protein that behaves unreliably can be widespread and in a wide range of severity. It shows up in places that seem unrelated until the underlying connection to an Ehlers-Danlos syndrome is recognized."
posted by Murderbot at 1:07 AM on February 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is a bit of a confused question because I'm not sure what I'll do if everyone tells me my wife is abnormally weak. I guess at some level I'm kind of hoping the answer will be, no, this is fine, women are just much, much weaker.
To answer the question you’ve asked: Your wife is unusually weak. Some people are this weak for a variety of reasons, as suggested by other people here, but that class of people is not “women in general”.
Your question states that you are also female. I think it’s OK to demonstrate to your children that people vary in what they can do & it’s OK to ask for help if you can’t do something. Women can be both strong & weak and both these things are normal things for a women to be.
I sense an underlying tension in your question though, which is that you do not believe that your partner is actually this weak & that you worry that she might end up teaching your children that it’s OK to be lazy and get others to do things when you can’t be bothered to put the effort in yourself. I think you probably need to talk about this (in a generous, open fashion) with your partner: children pick on unspoken tension & if you resent being asked to do these things they are going to notice & draw their own conclusions. If your partner is genuinely unable to do these things (for whatever reason) then be open about that with your children & show them how partners help each other & be talk to them about the ways your partner helps you.
posted by pharm at 1:30 AM on February 19, 2020 [15 favorites]
To answer the question you’ve asked: Your wife is unusually weak. Some people are this weak for a variety of reasons, as suggested by other people here, but that class of people is not “women in general”.
Your question states that you are also female. I think it’s OK to demonstrate to your children that people vary in what they can do & it’s OK to ask for help if you can’t do something. Women can be both strong & weak and both these things are normal things for a women to be.
I sense an underlying tension in your question though, which is that you do not believe that your partner is actually this weak & that you worry that she might end up teaching your children that it’s OK to be lazy and get others to do things when you can’t be bothered to put the effort in yourself. I think you probably need to talk about this (in a generous, open fashion) with your partner: children pick on unspoken tension & if you resent being asked to do these things they are going to notice & draw their own conclusions. If your partner is genuinely unable to do these things (for whatever reason) then be open about that with your children & show them how partners help each other & be talk to them about the ways your partner helps you.
posted by pharm at 1:30 AM on February 19, 2020 [15 favorites]
Your question states that you are also female.
I think that’s actually just an awkwardly-worded sentence, FWIW.
posted by kate blank at 1:59 AM on February 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think that’s actually just an awkwardly-worded sentence, FWIW.
posted by kate blank at 1:59 AM on February 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Is this your wife that has a pacemaker? I agree your wife is unusually weak, but a pacemaker implies an unusual medical history. What does her doctor say is a reasonable amount of effort for her?
posted by sdrawkcaSSAb at 2:05 AM on February 19, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by sdrawkcaSSAb at 2:05 AM on February 19, 2020 [20 favorites]
I have two thoughts about this question, one, if my husband showed this kind of resentment about helping me with small tasks I would probably get divorced. Life is way too short to give your life to someone who resents and questions you and assumes the worst. If I needed help lifting something and my husband weighed the thing and then complained about it on the Internet .... our marriage would be over. Two, my mom experienced several years of needing help with this type of small task. Then she was diagnosed with MS. The severity of her particular case of MS means she qualifies for 35 hours a week of in-home assistance from a home health aide so there is someone to do her heavy lifting now.
posted by kate blank at 2:05 AM on February 19, 2020 [18 favorites]
posted by kate blank at 2:05 AM on February 19, 2020 [18 favorites]
I agree that if this is based on pure strength (not height/awkwardness type issues mentioned in previous comments) that this is unusual and does seem like a significant impairment. I think it would be worth trying to explore further possible causes like Ehlers Danlos, a muscular disorder or pain that she isn't admitting to or thinks is normal. Especially if it's something that runs in her family its possible she complained about pain or weakness as a child and was told by a parent it's normal when it's actually only normal for someone with the disorder. Outside of disorders I wondered whether she has been raised to believe that all heavy lifting is "mens work" and perhaps is naturally not very strong and so hasn't tried and it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
BUT I think any discussion has to be done very gently and with as much of an attitude of working together with your wife as possible. I'm very concerned that it could easily come across as criticism of why she can't do things other women can do or frustration that she is asking you to do these things (which after all are not very onerous tasks).
You mention children and I think helping each other out as a partnership/family is a great example for them. Are you worried that if you have girls that they will also consider themselves physically weak or incapable? I think that has to be considered in the light of the outcome of anything above. If it turns out your wife has a disorder or is healthy but on the low end of the spectrum of strength for women then you can frame it as "Mum needs help with this task" rather than "All women need help with this task".
The other thing I think you need to work out before she gets pregnant though is the practical side of childcare. Babies are born weighing 6 - 10 pounds and get heavier. Can she lift/carry a baby? If not that isn't a barrier to having children but you will need between the two of you to work out ways of safely caring for them. An occupational therapist might be able to help with this too.
posted by *becca* at 2:11 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
BUT I think any discussion has to be done very gently and with as much of an attitude of working together with your wife as possible. I'm very concerned that it could easily come across as criticism of why she can't do things other women can do or frustration that she is asking you to do these things (which after all are not very onerous tasks).
You mention children and I think helping each other out as a partnership/family is a great example for them. Are you worried that if you have girls that they will also consider themselves physically weak or incapable? I think that has to be considered in the light of the outcome of anything above. If it turns out your wife has a disorder or is healthy but on the low end of the spectrum of strength for women then you can frame it as "Mum needs help with this task" rather than "All women need help with this task".
The other thing I think you need to work out before she gets pregnant though is the practical side of childcare. Babies are born weighing 6 - 10 pounds and get heavier. Can she lift/carry a baby? If not that isn't a barrier to having children but you will need between the two of you to work out ways of safely caring for them. An occupational therapist might be able to help with this too.
posted by *becca* at 2:11 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm not short but I lack upper body strength, I pretty much always have. All of the tasks you list are annoying to me at best and dangerous at worst (trying to lift and manouver a 12" frying pan full of hot food). I make modifications to make my life easier and yes I sometimes ask for help. For example I bought smaller square laundry baskets which are easier to carry, and I use a food processor to grate cheese if I need a lot. I don't lift frying pans when they are full of food or yes I ask my spouse for help.
No a frying pan isn't heavy by itself but the weight is at the end of a torque arm which makes it difficult to control.
Of course not all women are the same as I am, that seems like a strange conclusion.
posted by muddgirl at 2:12 AM on February 19, 2020 [6 favorites]
No a frying pan isn't heavy by itself but the weight is at the end of a torque arm which makes it difficult to control.
Of course not all women are the same as I am, that seems like a strange conclusion.
posted by muddgirl at 2:12 AM on February 19, 2020 [6 favorites]
After posting, carrying a baby is different because I don't have to do it with my arms extended - I can hold one to my chest and not use my arm muscles at all.
posted by muddgirl at 2:14 AM on February 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 2:14 AM on February 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
The pacemaker is a huuuuuge detail to leave out of this! If your wife has a heart condition, that's extremely relevant and this needs to be a conversation with her cardiologist. Heart problems could definitely lead to the extreme weakness you're describing. When you're carrying a weight, your heart needs to beat faster in order to compensate for the additional oxygen demand; if it's not doing that, carrying heavyish items would indeed feel awful.
posted by Acheman at 2:17 AM on February 19, 2020 [47 favorites]
posted by Acheman at 2:17 AM on February 19, 2020 [47 favorites]
Seconding charmedimsure - it may relate more to size than you realise.
I'm a 5'4" woman with a desk job and a sedentary lifestyle, so my upper body strength is nothing to write home about, but as far as I know I'm not unusually weak for my age/sex/activity level.
I can lift a 40lb box of books and carry it across a room or up a flight of stairs, but I'd struggle with a 40lb bag of cat litter, because the shape doesn't really lend itself to carrying with both arms, and if I try, it'll get tangled up in my legs when I walk. I get water softener salt tablets delivered in 10kg (~20lb) bags instead of the cheaper-per-kilo 25kg bags because it turns out I can't get a 25kg bag from the front door to the cupboard under the stairs where I store it.
I can grate cheese perfectly well on a counter the right height for me, but at one that's too tall, the angle of my arms makes it surprisingly hard work. I make heavy weather of using the Aeropress at work, because the kitchen counter height means I can't apply the necessary pressure in a mechanically efficient way.
Same for the frying pan: if I'm holding it with my arm straight down from the shoulder, bent at the elbow, it's fine; if I have to angle my arm from the shoulder at all, it gets harder. And it's not great manoeuvring something cumbersome that's also hot, full of food, and shallow enough that the food will easily spill.
A shallow laundry basket with comfortable handles is fine to carry down the corridor. One with handles that cut into my hands, or deep enough that my thighs hit it with every stride, not so much.
If I lived with someone bigger and stronger I would happily turn some of these tasks over to them.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 2:39 AM on February 19, 2020 [10 favorites]
I'm a 5'4" woman with a desk job and a sedentary lifestyle, so my upper body strength is nothing to write home about, but as far as I know I'm not unusually weak for my age/sex/activity level.
I can lift a 40lb box of books and carry it across a room or up a flight of stairs, but I'd struggle with a 40lb bag of cat litter, because the shape doesn't really lend itself to carrying with both arms, and if I try, it'll get tangled up in my legs when I walk. I get water softener salt tablets delivered in 10kg (~20lb) bags instead of the cheaper-per-kilo 25kg bags because it turns out I can't get a 25kg bag from the front door to the cupboard under the stairs where I store it.
I can grate cheese perfectly well on a counter the right height for me, but at one that's too tall, the angle of my arms makes it surprisingly hard work. I make heavy weather of using the Aeropress at work, because the kitchen counter height means I can't apply the necessary pressure in a mechanically efficient way.
Same for the frying pan: if I'm holding it with my arm straight down from the shoulder, bent at the elbow, it's fine; if I have to angle my arm from the shoulder at all, it gets harder. And it's not great manoeuvring something cumbersome that's also hot, full of food, and shallow enough that the food will easily spill.
A shallow laundry basket with comfortable handles is fine to carry down the corridor. One with handles that cut into my hands, or deep enough that my thighs hit it with every stride, not so much.
If I lived with someone bigger and stronger I would happily turn some of these tasks over to them.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 2:39 AM on February 19, 2020 [10 favorites]
I just noticed other commenters saying your wife has a pacemaker.
Is she on cholesterol lowering medication?
Cholesterol lowering medication can cause physical fatigue and muscle weakness.
posted by Murderbot at 3:27 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
Is she on cholesterol lowering medication?
Cholesterol lowering medication can cause physical fatigue and muscle weakness.
posted by Murderbot at 3:27 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
Yes, your wife is unusually weak. I am a woman, and that is weaker than any woman I've met (who didn't have medical issues). Women are not much, much weaker than men. A bit weaker, if you want to take an average, because of hormones, but not to the extent you're describing. Of course, this doesn't help you, because your wife is the one you're married to, other women aren't relevant. Maybe she has medical issues, I think that is worth gently exploring. Maybe she is just a real outlier in terms of strength. Either way, comparisons will get you nowhere. There's a weird undercurrent in your question that feels like you suspect she's lying about it or something.
posted by stillnocturnal at 3:46 AM on February 19, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by stillnocturnal at 3:46 AM on February 19, 2020 [14 favorites]
Seconding the folks talking about mechanical advantage.
There's also some stuff here about risk tolerance. I'm 6 feet tall and healthy, and I'll carry a frying pan of food around by one handle, but I'm also pretty relaxed about the idea that every once in a while I'll spill things or drop things or burn myself in the kitchen. If those possibilities stressed me out more, I'd be more reluctant to carry that same pan one-handed, because I don't have enough strength in my wrist to feel 100% always in control.
Probably this is a combination of factors. Maybe she's smaller than you and is less strong than many women her size and hasn't learned to use her strength to good mechanical effect and is used to people being jerks about the mistakes that sometimes result from that and has an extra-low tolerance for doing things that might make someone be a jerk, right? Or maybe it's not quite that many things, but you get the idea.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:06 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
There's also some stuff here about risk tolerance. I'm 6 feet tall and healthy, and I'll carry a frying pan of food around by one handle, but I'm also pretty relaxed about the idea that every once in a while I'll spill things or drop things or burn myself in the kitchen. If those possibilities stressed me out more, I'd be more reluctant to carry that same pan one-handed, because I don't have enough strength in my wrist to feel 100% always in control.
Probably this is a combination of factors. Maybe she's smaller than you and is less strong than many women her size and hasn't learned to use her strength to good mechanical effect and is used to people being jerks about the mistakes that sometimes result from that and has an extra-low tolerance for doing things that might make someone be a jerk, right? Or maybe it's not quite that many things, but you get the idea.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:06 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
I agree with everyone else who’s said that if you’re accurately describing the things she can’t do (lift an empty frying pan), she’s unusually weak to the point of disability. Some possibilities:
(1) She can do them in your absence, but it’s easier for you because you’re stronger and she thinks it’s reasonable to ask you. I’m 5’7”, my ex is 6’2”, my son is 6’3”. Getting stuff down from high shelves, I’d yell for one or the other of them if they were around because “I can’t reach.” This isn’t literally true, if there isn’t a tall man around I stand on something or manage somehow. If this is what’s going on, this seems perfectly reasonable to me and it’s odd that you’re not understanding her.
2) Same as (1), but she’s being genuinely odd about it — in a situation where it’s unreasonable or inconvenient to ask you to do the strength-requiring thing (you’re not there and waiting for you to get home will mean not getting something necessary done timely; you’re occupied with an equally necessary task; something like that) she still doesn’t do it. At that point, she’s being weird.
Either (1) or (2) seems like unusually bad communication from one of the two of you to me, and I would talk about the issue explicitly.
And the third option I can think of is that (3) she has some undiagnosed or undisclosed disability that impacts her ability to do ordinary life tasks. This seems unlikely to me. She would notice if she couldn’t do things that ordinary people can do. Carry a bag of groceries? There are a lot of things in daily life as heavy as a frying pan. And if she does have something medical going on, it is really unclear to me why she would be keeping it secret from you.
But the common thread with all of these is that communication has broken down. Either you’re misunderstanding her reasonable requests to do strength-requiring tasks because they’re easier for you; she’s on some kind of odd physical strike where she’s not doing things she can even when it makes sense for her to; or she’s got a real physical disability and the two of you haven’t communicated about it successfully. I think you need to talk more.
posted by LizardBreath at 4:26 AM on February 19, 2020 [7 favorites]
(1) She can do them in your absence, but it’s easier for you because you’re stronger and she thinks it’s reasonable to ask you. I’m 5’7”, my ex is 6’2”, my son is 6’3”. Getting stuff down from high shelves, I’d yell for one or the other of them if they were around because “I can’t reach.” This isn’t literally true, if there isn’t a tall man around I stand on something or manage somehow. If this is what’s going on, this seems perfectly reasonable to me and it’s odd that you’re not understanding her.
2) Same as (1), but she’s being genuinely odd about it — in a situation where it’s unreasonable or inconvenient to ask you to do the strength-requiring thing (you’re not there and waiting for you to get home will mean not getting something necessary done timely; you’re occupied with an equally necessary task; something like that) she still doesn’t do it. At that point, she’s being weird.
Either (1) or (2) seems like unusually bad communication from one of the two of you to me, and I would talk about the issue explicitly.
And the third option I can think of is that (3) she has some undiagnosed or undisclosed disability that impacts her ability to do ordinary life tasks. This seems unlikely to me. She would notice if she couldn’t do things that ordinary people can do. Carry a bag of groceries? There are a lot of things in daily life as heavy as a frying pan. And if she does have something medical going on, it is really unclear to me why she would be keeping it secret from you.
But the common thread with all of these is that communication has broken down. Either you’re misunderstanding her reasonable requests to do strength-requiring tasks because they’re easier for you; she’s on some kind of odd physical strike where she’s not doing things she can even when it makes sense for her to; or she’s got a real physical disability and the two of you haven’t communicated about it successfully. I think you need to talk more.
posted by LizardBreath at 4:26 AM on February 19, 2020 [7 favorites]
There's a great amount of variation even among persons of the same size. I *look* like an Amazon, but I've injured my wrist several times opening jars. My sister who is five inches shorter, however, can lift me off the ground. All bodies are not created equal.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:27 AM on February 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:27 AM on February 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Follow up on that last: a couple of people have brought up her pacemaker. Is it possible she’s afraid to do anything that’s a physical strain at all because of it? That seems worth inquiring into.
posted by LizardBreath at 4:28 AM on February 19, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by LizardBreath at 4:28 AM on February 19, 2020 [6 favorites]
Another possibility: ability to do things isn't just about
strength or pain
it's also about clumsiness.
Is she clumsy? Is she legitimately worried that she's going to drop the frying pan on her foot and hurt herself or burn herself [or someone else] ?
posted by Murderbot at 5:01 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
strength or pain
it's also about clumsiness.
Is she clumsy? Is she legitimately worried that she's going to drop the frying pan on her foot and hurt herself or burn herself [or someone else] ?
posted by Murderbot at 5:01 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Except I can't really bring myself to believe that. I don't consider myself particularly strong. I sit at a desk all day. And the things she asks me to do feel trivial.
Don't assume she is being dishonest. Don't even assume she has a mental block around these tasks. Both of those will destroy your relationship over time. The idea that you weighed your frying pan to dispute something like this makes me feel awful for both of you.
As a short woman, I would like to favorite charmedimsure's comment a million times. Doing certain tasks with a countertop or stovetop that feels too high is horribly awkward. I'm not objectively weak, but having to exert even a pretty small force at an angle that feels wrong is is just -- ugh. I won't begin to cook or do kitchen chores without my Dansko clogs which give me a little more height and back support. And the thought of taking a pot from the stove and pouring the contents into a strainer over the sink pretty much drives me to tears. And I am really average.
Discuss this one time and ask what is up. After that, I think if something like this isn't disrupting your whole day, you should just go ahead and help out. Sometimes being a good partner is about just doing something even if it doesn't make perfect sense to you.
posted by BibiRose at 5:09 AM on February 19, 2020 [7 favorites]
Don't assume she is being dishonest. Don't even assume she has a mental block around these tasks. Both of those will destroy your relationship over time. The idea that you weighed your frying pan to dispute something like this makes me feel awful for both of you.
As a short woman, I would like to favorite charmedimsure's comment a million times. Doing certain tasks with a countertop or stovetop that feels too high is horribly awkward. I'm not objectively weak, but having to exert even a pretty small force at an angle that feels wrong is is just -- ugh. I won't begin to cook or do kitchen chores without my Dansko clogs which give me a little more height and back support. And the thought of taking a pot from the stove and pouring the contents into a strainer over the sink pretty much drives me to tears. And I am really average.
Discuss this one time and ask what is up. After that, I think if something like this isn't disrupting your whole day, you should just go ahead and help out. Sometimes being a good partner is about just doing something even if it doesn't make perfect sense to you.
posted by BibiRose at 5:09 AM on February 19, 2020 [7 favorites]
Except I can't really bring myself to believe that. I don't consider myself particularly strong. I sit at a desk all day. And the things she asks me to do feel trivial.When I wrote my reply, I assumed that you were also a woman because of your wording ("I am not a small woman").
Women are statistically less physically strong than men on average, regardless of their size. Testosterone has an effect on muscle mass (exactly what effect is not straightforward and still being investigated). There are tiny, spindly men at the gym I go to who can nevertheless lift heavier weights than I can (and we've been training for about the same time).
If you are a man, it is even less odd that you are stronger than your wife despite your desk job, and your disbelief is puzzling.
The underlying problem is that you think that your wife is being dishonest about her physical strength, and you're looking for proof on the internet.
posted by confluency at 5:50 AM on February 19, 2020 [5 favorites]
(I'm also nthing the observations about the pacemaker. Surely that has an impact on how much she can or should exert herself?)
posted by confluency at 5:56 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by confluency at 5:56 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm a small woman with rheumatoid arthritis and the accompanying chronic pain. I live alone, and I can do all of the things your wife says she can't without issue (sometimes it sucks, but I can do it). If she really can't do these things or they are painful for her, then she needs to see a doctor about it asap.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:13 AM on February 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 6:13 AM on February 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Its unclear what you're hoping to get out of this question. Are you just looking for proof that your wife is lying and that women aren't so weak? What would that accomplish?
No, most women would not struggle with those tasks, but you already knew that from observing your female relatives.
Your wife is not most women, she struggles with these tasks. It doesn't matter that other women don't.
There could be any number of reasons why these tasks are difficult for her. I can deadlift 100KG but I struggle to grate cheese too. I'm dyspraxic so many tasks are more difficult for me than they would be for other people and it has nothing to do with strength. I play roller derby and can train for 3 hours but I struggle to hoover a room or mow the lawn. My other half does those job and I do the chores that I can more easily do. We play to our strengths because we're a team. I do more of the cleaning because I have a better eye for detail/dirt. He does things that involve wielding machines.
posted by missmagenta at 6:15 AM on February 19, 2020 [13 favorites]
No, most women would not struggle with those tasks, but you already knew that from observing your female relatives.
Your wife is not most women, she struggles with these tasks. It doesn't matter that other women don't.
There could be any number of reasons why these tasks are difficult for her. I can deadlift 100KG but I struggle to grate cheese too. I'm dyspraxic so many tasks are more difficult for me than they would be for other people and it has nothing to do with strength. I play roller derby and can train for 3 hours but I struggle to hoover a room or mow the lawn. My other half does those job and I do the chores that I can more easily do. We play to our strengths because we're a team. I do more of the cleaning because I have a better eye for detail/dirt. He does things that involve wielding machines.
posted by missmagenta at 6:15 AM on February 19, 2020 [13 favorites]
I know many women with restrictions similar to those you're describing. Generally they have some sort of medical issue and/or disability. Given that you already know your wife to have some medical issues, it seems worth a discussion about whether there might be additional issues that aren't properly diagnosed/treated, or that have been diagnosed but you're not taking seriously enough.
It also seems worth investing in some adaptive/assistive tech so your wife doesn't have to rely on you as much. Maybe there are laundry hampers with wheels, maybe your cats would be willing to use one of the alternative types of litter/litter box that wouldn't weigh as much. A friend with EDS recently got a new jar opener that's basically changed their life. There may be options that don't involve you being available to help every time a frying pan needs to be lifted.
Doubting your wife doesn't seem like a kind, supportive, or effective way to proceed here. "Should" she be able to do the things she can't? Maybe. What matters is to make sure she's getting good medical care, and then to work together to find ways to help her do more things independently for her own sake. It's probably not particularly fun for her not to be able to do basic life tasks when you're not around or are only helping grudgingly.
"People have different needs and strengths and can talk about it and work together to help each other navigate life" is a great lesson for your kids to learn; I don't think you should be stressing out about setting any kind of bad example in that regard.
posted by Stacey at 6:22 AM on February 19, 2020 [8 favorites]
It also seems worth investing in some adaptive/assistive tech so your wife doesn't have to rely on you as much. Maybe there are laundry hampers with wheels, maybe your cats would be willing to use one of the alternative types of litter/litter box that wouldn't weigh as much. A friend with EDS recently got a new jar opener that's basically changed their life. There may be options that don't involve you being available to help every time a frying pan needs to be lifted.
Doubting your wife doesn't seem like a kind, supportive, or effective way to proceed here. "Should" she be able to do the things she can't? Maybe. What matters is to make sure she's getting good medical care, and then to work together to find ways to help her do more things independently for her own sake. It's probably not particularly fun for her not to be able to do basic life tasks when you're not around or are only helping grudgingly.
"People have different needs and strengths and can talk about it and work together to help each other navigate life" is a great lesson for your kids to learn; I don't think you should be stressing out about setting any kind of bad example in that regard.
posted by Stacey at 6:22 AM on February 19, 2020 [8 favorites]
Surely you can take your wife's physical complaints seriously without needing to believe that they are shared by all people of her sex, height, and approximate mass.
as far as setting examples for your children goes, it would be very bad to pass on the belief that we must never say "I can't," we must only say "girls can't," and one day, "women can't."
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:31 AM on February 19, 2020 [16 favorites]
as far as setting examples for your children goes, it would be very bad to pass on the belief that we must never say "I can't," we must only say "girls can't," and one day, "women can't."
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:31 AM on February 19, 2020 [16 favorites]
I think the emotional tones in your post have been addressed, so I'm going to set that aside and assume that you're asking out of concern both now and for the future.
I think what you're describing does come into the area of what I would call a disability in the sense of impacting pretty seriously on quality of life. My mother has some joint, bone, and health issues that have resulted in her having some similar issues and at 40, with healthy teenagers at home and a healthy partner, they were kind of quirky.
After a lifetime of not addressing them, with her kids grown and out, and her partner having experienced a severe TBI, they have become a life-limiting issue. Some of that was just sheer bad luck, and no shame to her either way. However, as a lifetime observer of her behaviour, I also do think that if she'd addressed them through good physiotherapy and addressing things more directly with her medical team, she would be in a better place -- or at least, she would know that didn't work.
So with your wife, if your relationship is solid and you just want her to have a better quality of day, I think it's worth exploring in particular physiotherapy with her. I have been doing some lately and I'm kind of an evangelist about it, because it is amazing how small deficiencies can add up over time into really painful and limiting health issues. So it might be a great thing to get on together. But it has to be supportive and it has to be something she wants to do, especially as physio involves a lot of trust-building and frankly, work, between appointments and during.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:32 AM on February 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think what you're describing does come into the area of what I would call a disability in the sense of impacting pretty seriously on quality of life. My mother has some joint, bone, and health issues that have resulted in her having some similar issues and at 40, with healthy teenagers at home and a healthy partner, they were kind of quirky.
After a lifetime of not addressing them, with her kids grown and out, and her partner having experienced a severe TBI, they have become a life-limiting issue. Some of that was just sheer bad luck, and no shame to her either way. However, as a lifetime observer of her behaviour, I also do think that if she'd addressed them through good physiotherapy and addressing things more directly with her medical team, she would be in a better place -- or at least, she would know that didn't work.
So with your wife, if your relationship is solid and you just want her to have a better quality of day, I think it's worth exploring in particular physiotherapy with her. I have been doing some lately and I'm kind of an evangelist about it, because it is amazing how small deficiencies can add up over time into really painful and limiting health issues. So it might be a great thing to get on together. But it has to be supportive and it has to be something she wants to do, especially as physio involves a lot of trust-building and frankly, work, between appointments and during.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:32 AM on February 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
also if your wife is still hypothetically "so underweight [her] doctor is advising [her] to drink Ensure and eat ice cream," small wonder she can't lift anything either.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:39 AM on February 19, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:39 AM on February 19, 2020 [20 favorites]
Here is an expected lifting chart for women.
Obviously it’s hard to map those to everyday activities, but I think the arm curl is instructive as it is close to lifting a frying pan. A 90 lb woman off the street is expected to curl 7 pounds — but that is using her full strength under ideal circumstances. As others have mentioned, for a short person working at a normal sized stove is going be to awkward and of course you don’t want to be exerting your full strength just lifting the pan.
So if you toss in the normal variations between people, it seems reasonable to decide that a 3 lb frying pan (plus contents) is at the edge of what you can do safely.
BTW, the link above has a button at the top to switch between women and men. Playing with that might help you flush out your picture of the relative expected lifting abilities.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:06 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
Obviously it’s hard to map those to everyday activities, but I think the arm curl is instructive as it is close to lifting a frying pan. A 90 lb woman off the street is expected to curl 7 pounds — but that is using her full strength under ideal circumstances. As others have mentioned, for a short person working at a normal sized stove is going be to awkward and of course you don’t want to be exerting your full strength just lifting the pan.
So if you toss in the normal variations between people, it seems reasonable to decide that a 3 lb frying pan (plus contents) is at the edge of what you can do safely.
BTW, the link above has a button at the top to switch between women and men. Playing with that might help you flush out your picture of the relative expected lifting abilities.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:06 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
Blunt question time: Is your partner anorexic meaty shoe puppet? (Or might she be?)
https://www.heartrhythmcasereports.com/article/S2214-0271(19)30091-0/pdf
posted by pharm at 7:07 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
https://www.heartrhythmcasereports.com/article/S2214-0271(19)30091-0/pdf
Bradycardia is common among patients with severe anorexia nervosa (AN). Though generally reversible, marked bradycardia may be worrisome to clinicians with limited experience treating eating disorders. While most patients are asymptomatic, a significant minority present with pre-syncope, light-headedness, fatigue, and exercise intolerance that could be construed as concordant with current guidelines for permanent pacemaker (PPM) implantation. However,symptoms may not reflect bradycardia per se, but rather extreme malnutrition, deconditioning, and hypovolemia associated with restricted caloric intake and purging. Guidelines on the evaluation and management of patients with bradycardia enumerate many potentially reversible causes of sinus node dysfunction, but do not mention severe AN, nor do they proscribe PPM among eating disorder populations.If so, physical weakness would be entirely understandable. If she was being encouraged to feed on Ensure & ice cream then this is something you / she need to discuss with her healthcare providers. Anorexia is a killer that often goes undiagnosed & presents as heart problems according to this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709923/
posted by pharm at 7:07 AM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
I guess more generally, is there a way of helping her with this that will feel like helping and not shaming? Because whether or not this stuff is Normal or Okay or Good or Bad, it sounds like it must be really limiting.
If my partner were in this situation, I'd be less worried about what's a normal standard to hold them to and more worried about what combination of accommodations will help them cook safely when I'm away. Which might be "see a doctor" and might be "do some PT" and might be "get over a phobia," but all of those things are hard to do emotionally, and would be easier with genuine support.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:19 AM on February 19, 2020 [12 favorites]
If my partner were in this situation, I'd be less worried about what's a normal standard to hold them to and more worried about what combination of accommodations will help them cook safely when I'm away. Which might be "see a doctor" and might be "do some PT" and might be "get over a phobia," but all of those things are hard to do emotionally, and would be easier with genuine support.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:19 AM on February 19, 2020 [12 favorites]
An important aspect of the gender issue here is that women are often socialized to underestimate their own strength, and their capacity to improve it.
I would strongly encourage your wife to consult her doctor about this and find out if she has any kind of joint issue or other medical problem, as mentioned above; and if she's healthy enough that the doctor clears it as a good idea, I would strongly encourage her to begin a strength training program, starting with the smallest possible weights and working up. I really cannot overstate the psychological (and practical) benefits of doing so.
posted by waffleriot at 7:30 AM on February 19, 2020 [5 favorites]
I would strongly encourage your wife to consult her doctor about this and find out if she has any kind of joint issue or other medical problem, as mentioned above; and if she's healthy enough that the doctor clears it as a good idea, I would strongly encourage her to begin a strength training program, starting with the smallest possible weights and working up. I really cannot overstate the psychological (and practical) benefits of doing so.
posted by waffleriot at 7:30 AM on February 19, 2020 [5 favorites]
My boyfriend and I were just talking about the fact that despite being an average heighted woman who runs and does Pilates, certain things— driving a car, using a grater, certain tools, whatever— are not as easy and toy-like to me as they are to him. I have joint pain and small hands, and it just makes things difficult. I started exercising specifically because I was frustrated that the world is so obnoxious to navigate from my perspective. It hasn’t really helped that much— engaging my muscles or core or whatever doesn’t fix the fact that it would be more comfortable to work with tools at 0.7x scale.
Washing larger/heavier frying pans and grating cheese are actually two of the things I think about immediately when recalling things that hurt my hands or elbows! Despite building upper body strength, I eventually end up putting the stress on my joints, which hurts a lot. I am actively trying to do something about it and still struggling. And yes, talk laundry baskets end up hitting my shins, which sucks.
All of this is to say that being small without readily building muscle mass or when having joint pain can be massively inconvenient and hurt in ways that make you feel weak. Also, if she is underweight or has heart problems or some other issue, that will manifest.
But this isn’t a “woman” issue, many women who don’t exercise at all are stronger than me. I have a sister who can throw a basketball much more easily than I do, for no reason at all. I’ve always thought she makes it look like it’s as heavy as a tennis ball when she throws it, whereas for me I wobble from the weight and it affects my aim. We are the same height and related and most of our lives neither of us exercised. I just have a harder time.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:32 AM on February 19, 2020 [5 favorites]
Washing larger/heavier frying pans and grating cheese are actually two of the things I think about immediately when recalling things that hurt my hands or elbows! Despite building upper body strength, I eventually end up putting the stress on my joints, which hurts a lot. I am actively trying to do something about it and still struggling. And yes, talk laundry baskets end up hitting my shins, which sucks.
All of this is to say that being small without readily building muscle mass or when having joint pain can be massively inconvenient and hurt in ways that make you feel weak. Also, if she is underweight or has heart problems or some other issue, that will manifest.
But this isn’t a “woman” issue, many women who don’t exercise at all are stronger than me. I have a sister who can throw a basketball much more easily than I do, for no reason at all. I’ve always thought she makes it look like it’s as heavy as a tennis ball when she throws it, whereas for me I wobble from the weight and it affects my aim. We are the same height and related and most of our lives neither of us exercised. I just have a harder time.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:32 AM on February 19, 2020 [5 favorites]
As someone that experiences a lot of joint pain, early in my life I saw it as a lack of strength that was causing the pain not other issues. It hurt to open the jar because I wasn't strong enough, not because the joints & tendons in my hands suck. It hurt to lift a cast iron fry pan up over my head, because I was weak & not because my back is messed up. So that might be an issue. Women are significantly weaker than men, yes even strong women, you might find this article helpful.
Also sometimes I will ask my husband to help lift a thing because I am currently having joint pain flair ups or because I've carried the laundry down, sorted it, washed it, dried it & folded it & maybe he could freaking help by carrying the stuff upstairs to the bedroom without me nagging him 20 times once in a while.
posted by wwax at 10:23 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also sometimes I will ask my husband to help lift a thing because I am currently having joint pain flair ups or because I've carried the laundry down, sorted it, washed it, dried it & folded it & maybe he could freaking help by carrying the stuff upstairs to the bedroom without me nagging him 20 times once in a while.
posted by wwax at 10:23 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think deciding whether or not your wife has chronic pain and expecting her to accurately self-diagnose conditions that even doctors pay very little attention to is ableist and sexist all in one. No, it’s not the case that all women struggle with these tasks. Yes, it is the case that some do for reasons relating to their own physiology and issues which are common and under diagnosed in women.
“Obviously if they don’t have a disability” is not as obvious as you make it sound.
Honestly, OP, it sounds like you don’t have a great deal of respect for your wife and assume she is lying about what is difficult/painful for her, so you are in precisely the position of many doctors.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:28 AM on February 19, 2020 [17 favorites]
“Obviously if they don’t have a disability” is not as obvious as you make it sound.
Honestly, OP, it sounds like you don’t have a great deal of respect for your wife and assume she is lying about what is difficult/painful for her, so you are in precisely the position of many doctors.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:28 AM on February 19, 2020 [17 favorites]
One good reason for her to think about building up her strength, completely aside from making life easier for herself or for you, is that it's better for her bones. I'm getting to the age now where I need to be aware of my bone density and I'm concluding that I probably haven't been getting enough weight bearing exercise for my arms and looking to do more. It sounds like she gets pretty much zero weight bearing exercise. That's bad news for her bones and could lead to osteoporosis and life-disrupting fractures as she gets older. It also sounds like she has some existing health problems that mean a doctor should be involved in deciding how much exercise is appropriate. But I'm guessing her doctor would recommend exercise to help her build bone now, before she gets to the age where it's harder for her body to make new bone.
posted by Redstart at 11:36 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Redstart at 11:36 AM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is she otherwise a liar or a shirker? If not then you should accept her reporting of her own physical condition, on which she is the expert. If yes, then you have bigger issues than whether she can lift a frying pan.
I’m 5’0” and although in good physical condition, a lot of things are really hard for me. In the kitchen I don’t have good leverage over anything because of my height, and I’ve never had good grip strength. It’s impossible for me to unscrew the hose from the faucet, trying to open containers of any sort is often incredibly frustrating, etc. But I don’t think this is really the point. If she said she had any other physical condition, would you doubt that too? If yes, why? If no, why is this different?
posted by HotToddy at 12:26 PM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
I’m 5’0” and although in good physical condition, a lot of things are really hard for me. In the kitchen I don’t have good leverage over anything because of my height, and I’ve never had good grip strength. It’s impossible for me to unscrew the hose from the faucet, trying to open containers of any sort is often incredibly frustrating, etc. But I don’t think this is really the point. If she said she had any other physical condition, would you doubt that too? If yes, why? If no, why is this different?
posted by HotToddy at 12:26 PM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
It doesn't seem that unreasonable to me that the OP uses the phrase "claims to be too weak." Yeah, it sounds like he's not sure she really is that weak. But I, as a small woman, would probably also be unsure. It just seems awfully surprising to hear about a grown woman who isn't strong enough to grate cheese. If someone told me they couldn't do that without mentioning any specific condition that made it hard, I would most likely wonder whether she really couldn't do it or just assumed she couldn't without having tried. Or maybe tried half-heartedly once or twice and it seemed kind of hard and it didn't occur to her that it might get easier over time so she just never tried it again. Maybe it's disrespectful to consider the possibility that someone might be mistaken about their own capabilities, but I can think of times when I've concluded later that I was mistaken about my own capabilities, so it doesn't seem that unlikely that someone else might be also.
posted by Redstart at 12:47 PM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 12:47 PM on February 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
That’s kind of the point— the OP is saying the wife claims she can’t do it, but it’s quite possible she can do it and just finds it painful or difficult. If it’s because her joints suck, like mine, doing it more won’t make it better. Physiotherapy and antiinflammatories might. Might.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:04 PM on February 19, 2020
posted by stoneandstar at 1:04 PM on February 19, 2020
In my experience it is very, very common for women who've been taught all their lives to think of themselves as weak to assume they're incapable of doing physical tasks they can actually handle just fine if they try; I see this all the time with opening jars - and I myself used to be one of the AFAB people who thought they were incapable of things like unscrewing tight jars until I decided it was bullshit. The people who helped me realize that I'm stronger than I thought were doing me an enormous favor.
posted by waffleriot at 1:51 PM on February 19, 2020
posted by waffleriot at 1:51 PM on February 19, 2020
If someone told me they couldn't do that without mentioning any specific condition that made it hard, I would most likely wonder whether she really couldn't do it or just assumed she couldn't without having tried.
if I had a history of being alarmingly underweight with a heart condition, I would expect my husband to remember that without needing a specific mention to remind him in each and every conversation. I would also expect my husband to characterize me with reference to my very relevant health history, rather than simply describing me as a generic "small woman" expected to function like any other presumably hearty and robust small woman.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:27 PM on February 19, 2020 [23 favorites]
if I had a history of being alarmingly underweight with a heart condition, I would expect my husband to remember that without needing a specific mention to remind him in each and every conversation. I would also expect my husband to characterize me with reference to my very relevant health history, rather than simply describing me as a generic "small woman" expected to function like any other presumably hearty and robust small woman.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:27 PM on February 19, 2020 [23 favorites]
I have to say, I'm really taken aback by the red herrings here. What most women can or can't do doesn't apply to a medically underweight woman with a pacemaker.
I'm much more worried about the example you're setting for your kid, by expecting their mother to perform up to your standards despite obviously serious health problems. And the example you're setting by not advocating appropriate professional care and attention to those problems.
This is generally a question that the real answer to is: get medical care. If nothing else, a good physical therapy evaluation can help her set boundaries for what she can expect of herself, and how she can more clearly communicate her boundaries and needs to you.
posted by Dashy at 3:57 PM on February 19, 2020 [11 favorites]
I'm much more worried about the example you're setting for your kid, by expecting their mother to perform up to your standards despite obviously serious health problems. And the example you're setting by not advocating appropriate professional care and attention to those problems.
This is generally a question that the real answer to is: get medical care. If nothing else, a good physical therapy evaluation can help her set boundaries for what she can expect of herself, and how she can more clearly communicate her boundaries and needs to you.
posted by Dashy at 3:57 PM on February 19, 2020 [11 favorites]
Honestly, I can’t imagine a world where OP’s wife took a look at a cheese grater, decided she was too weak to use it without even trying, and needs a savior to teach her about the true strength that lies within. More likely, she finds it difficult or painful and would rather offload that particular chore to someone who does not. Rational.
posted by stoneandstar at 4:24 PM on February 19, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 4:24 PM on February 19, 2020 [8 favorites]
I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but some of the examples you mention made me wonder if this is related to anxiety and not physical strength. Lifting a frying pan with hot food in it, grating cheese, potentially hurting her back by lifting something heavy, or causing a mess if it spills, those are things that could be worrisome to her. She doesn’t want to cause an accident of some kind. Maybe her hands are a bit shaky? I don’t know. It reminds me of a family member I have who, for instance, does not like to cut a pan of lasagna because she worries she won’t do it correctly. She can physically do it, but she prefers not to because it stresses her out. I can imagine the same family member thinking grating cheese could cause her to cut her hand. I usually just cut the lasagna or grate the cheese or whatever for her because, hey, free lasagna. I hope you and your wife can find a way to talk and you can understand this situation and her concerns. I would not bring up future children if you talk to her - that’s an entirely different and sensitive topic.
posted by areaperson at 5:50 PM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by areaperson at 5:50 PM on February 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Wow, this went in an unexpected direction.
I may have been unclear: it's my wife who believes this is a normal consequence of her size and sex. I'm the one wondering whether there is something more going on.
I appreciate everyone who is helping me to understand the ways size and leverage complicate strength in ways that are not obvious to me and maybe too obvious for her to think to explain.
We're probably well set for medical advice right now. She is in the care of several doctors and other healthcare providers. So far they appear not to consider this a consequence of her weight or heart condition.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 8:44 PM on February 19, 2020
I may have been unclear: it's my wife who believes this is a normal consequence of her size and sex. I'm the one wondering whether there is something more going on.
I appreciate everyone who is helping me to understand the ways size and leverage complicate strength in ways that are not obvious to me and maybe too obvious for her to think to explain.
We're probably well set for medical advice right now. She is in the care of several doctors and other healthcare providers. So far they appear not to consider this a consequence of her weight or heart condition.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 8:44 PM on February 19, 2020
Yeah, I think she's mistaken about this being normal. Even children can do these things. I consider myself weak (and a small woman) and occasionally have had trouble with heavy doors, etc. But the examples you give are really extreme.
posted by pinochiette at 4:44 AM on February 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 4:44 AM on February 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
Oh, sudden thought, on the cheese front specifically - what's your grater like? Box graters like this OXO one are much, much easier to use than the kind that's just a single flat piece of metal you're supposed to... I don't even know: brace at an angle against the chopping board? hold steady over the top of a bowl?
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 8:46 AM on February 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 8:46 AM on February 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
I can only speak for myself, but if my doctor told me that my being clinically underweight with heart disease was completely unrelated to my lack of physical strength and stamina, I would be looking around for a second opinion.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:15 AM on February 20, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:15 AM on February 20, 2020 [20 favorites]
She is abnormally weak for a woman even of small stature. For someone who is underweight and with a heart condition? Maybe not. I would mainly be concerned because having such low muscle mass may also mean very low bone density (long story short, the activities that stimulate bone density growth also increase muscle mass). Muscle mass, especially as we age, also correlates with overall health. For example, it correlates with a lower rate of falls and a higher rate of independence. It even correlates with better brain health. She should really not be taking her weakness lightly. And you know, even if she WAS of normal strength wouldn't she want to get stronger simply to be more functional?
posted by Anonymous at 4:20 PM on February 20, 2020
posted by Anonymous at 4:20 PM on February 20, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Phssthpok at 11:25 PM on February 18, 2020 [14 favorites]