Touring Russia: is a travel agency/tour package necessary/easier?
February 16, 2020 2:43 AM Subscribe
My parents are interested in taking a trip to Russia in May or June. The 10- to 14- day packages they have found are very expensive, but include reasonably nice hotels, all transfers, tickets to tourist sites, and most importantly, assistance with obtaining a visa. Is it possible to tour Russia for less money by booking everything yourself?
My dad has always wanted to visit Russia so I want to help make it happen. I researched a few tour companies but the costs are...not low ($2,900 - $3,900 USD+ per person for a 10- to 14-day trip, not including the cost of return flights). I am not in a position to spend more than 4-5 hours researching this or working on it (I absolutely would if I could) so I turn to you, MeFites.
Details that might matter:
- Two Canadian travelers, ages 60 and 70
- Ideally would like to see highlights of Moscow and Saint Petersburg, maybe a little town or village too, and anything else you would recommend that is feasible without spending 4 nights on a train
- Ideal trip length: 10-14 days, not including travel to/from Toronto
- Visa assistance very helpful (if included in some kind of a package deal)
Do you have suggestions for how my parents can book their trip? Are they better off doing a group tour/package, and if so, do you have any recommendations? If it is possible to do things independently (e.g. book flights, then hotels, then transfers/drivers/guides, etc.) do you have any advice?
Thank you for your guidance.
My dad has always wanted to visit Russia so I want to help make it happen. I researched a few tour companies but the costs are...not low ($2,900 - $3,900 USD+ per person for a 10- to 14-day trip, not including the cost of return flights). I am not in a position to spend more than 4-5 hours researching this or working on it (I absolutely would if I could) so I turn to you, MeFites.
Details that might matter:
- Two Canadian travelers, ages 60 and 70
- Ideally would like to see highlights of Moscow and Saint Petersburg, maybe a little town or village too, and anything else you would recommend that is feasible without spending 4 nights on a train
- Ideal trip length: 10-14 days, not including travel to/from Toronto
- Visa assistance very helpful (if included in some kind of a package deal)
Do you have suggestions for how my parents can book their trip? Are they better off doing a group tour/package, and if so, do you have any recommendations? If it is possible to do things independently (e.g. book flights, then hotels, then transfers/drivers/guides, etc.) do you have any advice?
Thank you for your guidance.
If they're willing to invest a few hours in research, then it's probably doable on their own; if they want a less-detailed approach and want to just have someone else handle the little things, then it may be worth this price to them. For example, buying your train tickets online is doable via the RZD site, explained in detail at Seat 61, but is this an annoying waste of time for them or a fun challenge?
That said: a search on Expedia.ca brought up a 10-day flight/hotel bundle for 1795 CAD per person in June, based on flights on Lufthansa/Swiss from Toronto stopping for a few hours in Munich/Zurich and staying at this random nice-looking hotel, a ten-minute walk from Arbatskaya metro, in Moscow. Expedia and lots of other sites let you also just get a hotel for part of the trip so they could book something else for St Petersburg later on.
It's hard to imagine that they would spend the difference between this and the tours they've found (well over 1000 USD!) on train tickets (or even internal flights) to/from St Petersburg, museum entry fees or even local guides every day, and I'm sure they could get around quite easily in both cities using the metro and a guidebook.
Also, once the flights and hotels are booked it becomes possible to arrange visas; it even looks like you can arrange them online via a number of agencies who issue you with an invitation letter. Visas are rather expensive - around 110 CAD - but again, it's not complicated, just a bit time-consuming. This seems like a recent look at the process for Canadians.
Good luck! I'm sure you can arrange a flight+hotel bundle and visa arrangement for way less than the cost of these tours, and then, perhaps with the help of the hotel, arrange something in the way of day tours, experiences, or local train travel.
posted by mdonley at 5:31 AM on February 16, 2020
That said: a search on Expedia.ca brought up a 10-day flight/hotel bundle for 1795 CAD per person in June, based on flights on Lufthansa/Swiss from Toronto stopping for a few hours in Munich/Zurich and staying at this random nice-looking hotel, a ten-minute walk from Arbatskaya metro, in Moscow. Expedia and lots of other sites let you also just get a hotel for part of the trip so they could book something else for St Petersburg later on.
It's hard to imagine that they would spend the difference between this and the tours they've found (well over 1000 USD!) on train tickets (or even internal flights) to/from St Petersburg, museum entry fees or even local guides every day, and I'm sure they could get around quite easily in both cities using the metro and a guidebook.
Also, once the flights and hotels are booked it becomes possible to arrange visas; it even looks like you can arrange them online via a number of agencies who issue you with an invitation letter. Visas are rather expensive - around 110 CAD - but again, it's not complicated, just a bit time-consuming. This seems like a recent look at the process for Canadians.
Good luck! I'm sure you can arrange a flight+hotel bundle and visa arrangement for way less than the cost of these tours, and then, perhaps with the help of the hotel, arrange something in the way of day tours, experiences, or local train travel.
posted by mdonley at 5:31 AM on February 16, 2020
I just did a package tour of Greece, my first one after organizing all of my own travel. Reasons to book a package tour with a good company:
They solve logistics for you, they speak the language, you will probably get better hotels, if something goes wrong you're with a group that can help, they drive for you, you always have people to talk to.
On the other hand, the schedule is pretty rigid, it's more expensive, you will feel a bit powerless before the tour starts, and you may not like the social group.
Because of the language barrier, lack of cultural knowledge, and the videos of Russian driving I've seen I would do a packaged tour if I wanted to visit anything other than the big cities with public transportation. So for a 7 day tour I wouldn't do a package, but for a 14 I would. I use GoAhead tours and mine was pretty educational with mostly a 60-70 year old crowd of a lot of retired teachers. I was frustrated at the lack of info before the tour started but it ended up the right choice for my itinerary.
Also you probably want to book your own flights if your parents are good at navigating airports. Tour company flights are the cheapest ones possible and you have no control. If you book your own you can also easily and cheaply extend an 8 day tour with 2 more nights in your final city if you want
posted by JZig at 7:00 AM on February 16, 2020
They solve logistics for you, they speak the language, you will probably get better hotels, if something goes wrong you're with a group that can help, they drive for you, you always have people to talk to.
On the other hand, the schedule is pretty rigid, it's more expensive, you will feel a bit powerless before the tour starts, and you may not like the social group.
Because of the language barrier, lack of cultural knowledge, and the videos of Russian driving I've seen I would do a packaged tour if I wanted to visit anything other than the big cities with public transportation. So for a 7 day tour I wouldn't do a package, but for a 14 I would. I use GoAhead tours and mine was pretty educational with mostly a 60-70 year old crowd of a lot of retired teachers. I was frustrated at the lack of info before the tour started but it ended up the right choice for my itinerary.
Also you probably want to book your own flights if your parents are good at navigating airports. Tour company flights are the cheapest ones possible and you have no control. If you book your own you can also easily and cheaply extend an 8 day tour with 2 more nights in your final city if you want
posted by JZig at 7:00 AM on February 16, 2020
I never do packaged tours, out of both budget and preference, but there are numerous factors to consider.
It is very easy to book your own hotels and do the cities on your own IF you are generally comfortable feeling a bit lost and are up to some challenges. This gives you the luxury of seeing things on your time frame (I hate being on a schedule), picking your own priorities, and not having to spend a lot of time with possibly annoying co-travelers. You can use local tour agencies (check tripadvisor, a guidebook, or just google) to book day trips out of the cities. This option will be much, MUCH cheaper.
But if they have never traveled outside the US and aren't generally adventurous souls, a guided tour will make sure that everything is easy and flows smoothly. No worrying about getting lost or language barriers. The price they were finding is reasonable. I've heard good things about Smithsonian tours and National Geographic tours, but they cost twice as much.
Buy them a Lonely Planet guidebook. They can use the guidebook before they go the to determine what sites they want to see, find recommended daytrip operators, and maybe a private tourguide to the city for a day. Many people find this pre-trip planning very fun! Let them play with the guidebook for a week and see if maybe they are those people. Then they start by booking a hotel or AirBNB somewhere very central in each city. They can use taxis or Uber instead of transit in the cities.
posted by mkuhnell at 7:33 AM on February 16, 2020
It is very easy to book your own hotels and do the cities on your own IF you are generally comfortable feeling a bit lost and are up to some challenges. This gives you the luxury of seeing things on your time frame (I hate being on a schedule), picking your own priorities, and not having to spend a lot of time with possibly annoying co-travelers. You can use local tour agencies (check tripadvisor, a guidebook, or just google) to book day trips out of the cities. This option will be much, MUCH cheaper.
But if they have never traveled outside the US and aren't generally adventurous souls, a guided tour will make sure that everything is easy and flows smoothly. No worrying about getting lost or language barriers. The price they were finding is reasonable. I've heard good things about Smithsonian tours and National Geographic tours, but they cost twice as much.
Buy them a Lonely Planet guidebook. They can use the guidebook before they go the to determine what sites they want to see, find recommended daytrip operators, and maybe a private tourguide to the city for a day. Many people find this pre-trip planning very fun! Let them play with the guidebook for a week and see if maybe they are those people. Then they start by booking a hotel or AirBNB somewhere very central in each city. They can use taxis or Uber instead of transit in the cities.
posted by mkuhnell at 7:33 AM on February 16, 2020
Oh, and you can arrange visas online fairly easily. Don't let that be prohibitive.
posted by mkuhnell at 7:33 AM on February 16, 2020
posted by mkuhnell at 7:33 AM on February 16, 2020
One thing to keep in mind - at least as of around ten years ago - is that doing things yourself also requires buying in to incredibly sketchy seeming visa support and perhaps finding sketchy clerks to stamp documents. (The later is probably less of an issue in Moscow and St. Petersberg, if they stay at nice hotels. In small towns, or anywhere east of Moscow, it can be a big deal and a huge pain in the neck.) Everything about everyone involved in the system screams "scam," but the whole thing cost a total of $100 and most of the participants seem to be real, in the sense they will give you a piece of paper that cops and border agents will accept. It's not that hard, but every interaction is five times harder than booking a bus in a language you don't speak, and you have those interactions daily if you move around.
If it were me (a young-ish guy who isn't terribly afraid of embarrassment, foreign languages, or cops), I'd definitely do it alone again next time. If it were my mom traveling on her own. . . I'd probably buy her a tour package.
posted by eotvos at 11:27 AM on February 16, 2020
If it were me (a young-ish guy who isn't terribly afraid of embarrassment, foreign languages, or cops), I'd definitely do it alone again next time. If it were my mom traveling on her own. . . I'd probably buy her a tour package.
posted by eotvos at 11:27 AM on February 16, 2020
I travelled Russia solo (woman in my 20s) independently in 2014. Its completely doable, but have others have said requires a certain tolerance for fussing and navigating things. Some things to note:
*the visa organising feels shady but works easily. A letter of invitation really is just that, paying a little bit for an online letter from a random company (I just went for the one recommended on Seat61 I think) and booking the first hotel as one that advertises it will submit the in country visa thingy. Its not designed to trip people up and be scrutinized by the KGB like it may seem, just fussy red tape box ticking.
*Dont expect English, even a smattering of English, to be spoken outside of mid end stuff particularly geared at international tourists. Russians I found were pragmatic and willing to navigate a lack of Russian (minus the fake "customer service smiles" bit). The only words I knew were thank you and the number that was the going rate in rubles for fresh berries sold on the street. If you're prepared with train destinations/menu order etc written down in cryllic people will work with you.
*the Moscow underground is stunningly decorated and lots of time should be spent on it. Theres tours to the prettiest stations. When I was there signs were only in cryllic and devoting a few hours to learning how to sound out the alphabet before I left home really helped. Same with some bus signs most restaurant names some street names etc.
*theres a pretty standard repertoire of traditional Russian food. Use travel books to find restaurants with English menus, you can still find pretty authentic ones. If theyre more adventurous and happy with a lucky dip they can learn/write some standard orders for traditional food places without english menus.
*Download cryllic alphabet to their phones for easy use of translate apps before they leave.
*taxis could be confusing and weird (unmarked, unclear where taxi ranks were where the rule was people are meant to queue for pick up rather than hail). Uber would likely make this easier.
*theres a premium on foreign language (English) tours given that many guides dont speak English. Dont expect English day tours organised stand alone to be cheap.
*you can book the Moscow to st petersburg train (and all trains) on the government russian rail site in English.
So yep as others said basically up to tolerance for fussing through a language and culture barrier.
posted by hotcoroner at 6:19 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
*the visa organising feels shady but works easily. A letter of invitation really is just that, paying a little bit for an online letter from a random company (I just went for the one recommended on Seat61 I think) and booking the first hotel as one that advertises it will submit the in country visa thingy. Its not designed to trip people up and be scrutinized by the KGB like it may seem, just fussy red tape box ticking.
*Dont expect English, even a smattering of English, to be spoken outside of mid end stuff particularly geared at international tourists. Russians I found were pragmatic and willing to navigate a lack of Russian (minus the fake "customer service smiles" bit). The only words I knew were thank you and the number that was the going rate in rubles for fresh berries sold on the street. If you're prepared with train destinations/menu order etc written down in cryllic people will work with you.
*the Moscow underground is stunningly decorated and lots of time should be spent on it. Theres tours to the prettiest stations. When I was there signs were only in cryllic and devoting a few hours to learning how to sound out the alphabet before I left home really helped. Same with some bus signs most restaurant names some street names etc.
*theres a pretty standard repertoire of traditional Russian food. Use travel books to find restaurants with English menus, you can still find pretty authentic ones. If theyre more adventurous and happy with a lucky dip they can learn/write some standard orders for traditional food places without english menus.
*Download cryllic alphabet to their phones for easy use of translate apps before they leave.
*taxis could be confusing and weird (unmarked, unclear where taxi ranks were where the rule was people are meant to queue for pick up rather than hail). Uber would likely make this easier.
*theres a premium on foreign language (English) tours given that many guides dont speak English. Dont expect English day tours organised stand alone to be cheap.
*you can book the Moscow to st petersburg train (and all trains) on the government russian rail site in English.
So yep as others said basically up to tolerance for fussing through a language and culture barrier.
posted by hotcoroner at 6:19 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I moved to Russia in June. I would do a tour package. Here's why:
The language barrier is quite huge and steep. Most people do not even recognize what language i speak (english). You may think you can learn from a guide book, but that really wont get you very far understanding responses. There are some people that understand english, but often dont speak it very well.
Yandex taxi is uber (as in they bought ubers business in the country). You can use the yandex taxi app of sometimes there are stand kiosk at shopping centers or train stations, but there is a decent chance the driver will call you to say they are here or there of where are you, etc and most of these little conversations require some russian.
I would not bother going to a little village not geared towards some tourist interest. I live in a village. The drop off from city to village is steep. There isnt much suburb type culture. Its either developed city or village with one strip on beer stores and a general store (produkti or magazin). Find a movie or video to see how the village houses look different, but really i think it would be a waste of travel time to go to one unless it already jas some tourist draw like an old church they want to see. Otherwise there's not really anything to do or see. Also, roads in villages are terrible, it basically offroading. There are buses that run frequently to even the most remote villages, but again, you need tobspeak russian and you will likely not get cell service too far outside the city unless you get a russian sim, such as beeline. You will need your passport to purchase a sim (also to check in to hotels and book and board trains)
Navigating cities can be confusing once off main corridors. For example, there might be several small streets around a cluster of same looking apartment buildings and all of them are named the same with the address numbering just picking up from where it left off on the last street of the same name.
I feel a package tour would also be able to help navigate any medical assistance that may be needed. Private clinics are plentiful and affordable. Public clinics are very difficult to navigate without speaking russian.
Basically, i think the language barrier would make the vacation more like work if they tried to put all the pieces together themselves. Its quite different than traveling in some other european countries that get much higher volumes of english speaking tourists. That said, Moscow is huge, the central part of the city is beautiful and clean, and the trains between moscow and st petersburg are clean and on time. Food, especially produce and bread, is really good (fresh tasting) even in small cafeteria style restarants. Theres a lot of history, but also the coutry has been and is changing rapidly and it is not the bleak wasteland it is sometimes portrayed as (though there is a lot of gray weather).
posted by WeekendJen at 12:34 PM on February 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
The language barrier is quite huge and steep. Most people do not even recognize what language i speak (english). You may think you can learn from a guide book, but that really wont get you very far understanding responses. There are some people that understand english, but often dont speak it very well.
Yandex taxi is uber (as in they bought ubers business in the country). You can use the yandex taxi app of sometimes there are stand kiosk at shopping centers or train stations, but there is a decent chance the driver will call you to say they are here or there of where are you, etc and most of these little conversations require some russian.
I would not bother going to a little village not geared towards some tourist interest. I live in a village. The drop off from city to village is steep. There isnt much suburb type culture. Its either developed city or village with one strip on beer stores and a general store (produkti or magazin). Find a movie or video to see how the village houses look different, but really i think it would be a waste of travel time to go to one unless it already jas some tourist draw like an old church they want to see. Otherwise there's not really anything to do or see. Also, roads in villages are terrible, it basically offroading. There are buses that run frequently to even the most remote villages, but again, you need tobspeak russian and you will likely not get cell service too far outside the city unless you get a russian sim, such as beeline. You will need your passport to purchase a sim (also to check in to hotels and book and board trains)
Navigating cities can be confusing once off main corridors. For example, there might be several small streets around a cluster of same looking apartment buildings and all of them are named the same with the address numbering just picking up from where it left off on the last street of the same name.
I feel a package tour would also be able to help navigate any medical assistance that may be needed. Private clinics are plentiful and affordable. Public clinics are very difficult to navigate without speaking russian.
Basically, i think the language barrier would make the vacation more like work if they tried to put all the pieces together themselves. Its quite different than traveling in some other european countries that get much higher volumes of english speaking tourists. That said, Moscow is huge, the central part of the city is beautiful and clean, and the trains between moscow and st petersburg are clean and on time. Food, especially produce and bread, is really good (fresh tasting) even in small cafeteria style restarants. Theres a lot of history, but also the coutry has been and is changing rapidly and it is not the bleak wasteland it is sometimes portrayed as (though there is a lot of gray weather).
posted by WeekendJen at 12:34 PM on February 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you to everyone for the great answers and insights. I feel much more confident helping my parents out and really appreciate your time!
posted by gursky at 3:47 AM on February 28, 2020
posted by gursky at 3:47 AM on February 28, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
In a way, you are looking at apples and oranges. In addition to booking things and helping with a visa, group tours take care of all in-country travel so you never have to look at a map or figure out how to get a taxi. You also have a built-in translator at ready access. As you get older, this stuff becomes more important. Unless you are traveling with them and providing all these services in addition to spending time helping them book it, they are not interchangeable options.
This cost does not actually seem that high to me for a European trip from North America. A good low cost tour group is Gate 1. If you find a price lower than what they offer, it will be missing some important components and would provide a sub-par travel experience. A more expensive option is RoadScholar. They provide in-tour lectures on architecture, art, wildlife, etc. that definitely enhance the trip.
Another benefit of group touring is that you have built-in companionship. The will have other people to talk to about the amazing art and the odd food experiences. This adds an additional level of enjoyment to the experience, in my opinion.
posted by eleslie at 5:03 AM on February 16, 2020 [8 favorites]