Communication woes with BFF
February 3, 2020 12:23 AM
I think my BFF was depressed, but now it has turned into something more complicated because communication is tense and difficult now. Wall of text to follow...
A dear, long-distance friend of mine who I met 15 years ago in adolescence (when neither of us were in the happiest place) seems to have over the past year gotten more negative. I think she could be a little depressed, or just overworked. We live in different time zones so sometimes I would wake up to numerous texts over her frustrations about her life that were challenging to answer. It built up over time, but eventually I felt like I couldn't realistically help her or be that available because the problems seemed kind of vast and diffuse, like her feeling generally insecure about herself, or sometimes the issues were things that I did not feel like I had a good handle on or I wasn't really going to be an unbiased listener - so I suggested therapy. She was slow to get into therapy but I believe she is in therapy now. She later told me that she thought I had suggested therapy because I was angry at her, and that it feels like I can't "tolerate" her distress, and I can see why she feels that way, but I didn't suggest therapy out of anger-- in fact, I work as a therapist myself and see a therapist, too, which I have told her about. That's the other thing - in the past several years I trained to become a therapist. Prior to training it was easy to play armchair psychologist, but now, I really don't want to be her psychologist. Part of training includes working on establishing firm boundaries and I am not sure if that has spilled over into how I approach her rants, but either way, it is hard to go from seeing clients all day and then going home and reading about her most recent upset. I also do not feel comfortable waving around diagnostic terms as a mental health professional, and in the past she has put some pressure on me to validate her diagnoses of people that I don't know, and she got upset at me when I declined to.
One day she was ranting at me about something, and I told her that it was going to be hard to discuss over text, maybe we could set up a time to call. We set up a time, but the by the end of the day I still hadn't heard from her and by that time of day had happened to have guests over. When she finally texted me at night, "how are you?" I recall feeling so pissed in the moment, because it had been a long time since she had asked me how I was, and this time her asking me that felt like this superficial question thing to just get out of the way in order to get me to listen to her vent again. I couldn't bring myself to answer her, and so I just didn't respond. She got really angry at me. I know I shouldn't have just not answered, it was a shitty thing to do, but it was like that question snapped me into some realization that I couldn't keep being her rant receptacle.
I get why she is upset. Our friendship used to be based on us venting or talking back and forth about the petty bullshit that bothered us when we were younger, and now I'm not fully available for that. We knew each other so well, and there was a lot less contextualizing that we needed to do for one another. She told me that I was the only one who understood that much of her life, and that's why I even held out for so long, knowing that she was going through a hard time and that I did understand certain aspects of her life and perspective. I thought that things would improve, she would eventually feel better and we could resume our usual friendship. But on the other hand, I also wasn't clear on who else was giving her support during this time and if I was the only person in her support network then ... maybe that's why it felt so overwhelming to me. I also think I'm not at a place in my life where I feel that unhappy myself these days, and I felt like it was much easier to commiserate with her when I was less happy or going through something challenging.
I also feel like part of the reason why I withdrew is because I feel like I could "say the wrong thing" around her. I remember feeling like we would sometimes be talking about something super benign... like a TV show or whatever, and then the conversation would escalate and it'd suddenly be like "wait... are we arguing about something?" I felt like I couldn't share things about myself because there was a risk that my views or experiences (even if they were positive) could potentially get picked apart or cast in a negative light. That hasn't happened that frequently, but it has happened enough that I realized that I just wanted to avoid it altogether... something does not feel emotionally comfortable here.
Now she's really angry and there's tension between us. I've apologized and tried to explain to her some of what my experience has been. She said things like "it was hard for me when you were struggling, too," and "you've really changed." Now, whenever I ask her how she's doing, she will just say "good." I'm not sure if she's giving me the silent treatment exactly, but things just feel wrong. I've tried to explain to her what happened, but she has also started to answer everything I say with another question rather than telling me how she feels or even how she is taking in the things I am saying. She also has started sentences like "it sounds like you think x" (I'm not sure if that's something she sees as a line that therapists say?) to almost force the conversation along because then I have to refute or qualify the words she is almost putting into my mouth. She also told me that months ago, she didn't even know if she should invite me to her wedding (I'm still slated to be MOH?) but I'm not sure if that was just said in a moment of hurt or if that was real. All of that contributes to this general feeling of ick.
I feel like I'm cast as the person who messed up, because I was the one who flaked on her, which I do feel bad about, but I also think that there's more to discuss, that it isn't just me, and I don't know how to really go about that with communication going the way it is right now. I feel that with the tension, I'm compelled to apologize, but ... about what? I already apologized for flaking. I really wish that I could do something to help this situation. This is one of my longest friendships, hopefully a friend for life, and I care about her. Maybe I should lay low and just wait for time to heal the wound? Also worried about how to go into being in her wedding with this atmosphere.
Have you ever been in my or my friend's situation? What helped the situation? How do I go about this in a way that doesn't make things worse?
A dear, long-distance friend of mine who I met 15 years ago in adolescence (when neither of us were in the happiest place) seems to have over the past year gotten more negative. I think she could be a little depressed, or just overworked. We live in different time zones so sometimes I would wake up to numerous texts over her frustrations about her life that were challenging to answer. It built up over time, but eventually I felt like I couldn't realistically help her or be that available because the problems seemed kind of vast and diffuse, like her feeling generally insecure about herself, or sometimes the issues were things that I did not feel like I had a good handle on or I wasn't really going to be an unbiased listener - so I suggested therapy. She was slow to get into therapy but I believe she is in therapy now. She later told me that she thought I had suggested therapy because I was angry at her, and that it feels like I can't "tolerate" her distress, and I can see why she feels that way, but I didn't suggest therapy out of anger-- in fact, I work as a therapist myself and see a therapist, too, which I have told her about. That's the other thing - in the past several years I trained to become a therapist. Prior to training it was easy to play armchair psychologist, but now, I really don't want to be her psychologist. Part of training includes working on establishing firm boundaries and I am not sure if that has spilled over into how I approach her rants, but either way, it is hard to go from seeing clients all day and then going home and reading about her most recent upset. I also do not feel comfortable waving around diagnostic terms as a mental health professional, and in the past she has put some pressure on me to validate her diagnoses of people that I don't know, and she got upset at me when I declined to.
One day she was ranting at me about something, and I told her that it was going to be hard to discuss over text, maybe we could set up a time to call. We set up a time, but the by the end of the day I still hadn't heard from her and by that time of day had happened to have guests over. When she finally texted me at night, "how are you?" I recall feeling so pissed in the moment, because it had been a long time since she had asked me how I was, and this time her asking me that felt like this superficial question thing to just get out of the way in order to get me to listen to her vent again. I couldn't bring myself to answer her, and so I just didn't respond. She got really angry at me. I know I shouldn't have just not answered, it was a shitty thing to do, but it was like that question snapped me into some realization that I couldn't keep being her rant receptacle.
I get why she is upset. Our friendship used to be based on us venting or talking back and forth about the petty bullshit that bothered us when we were younger, and now I'm not fully available for that. We knew each other so well, and there was a lot less contextualizing that we needed to do for one another. She told me that I was the only one who understood that much of her life, and that's why I even held out for so long, knowing that she was going through a hard time and that I did understand certain aspects of her life and perspective. I thought that things would improve, she would eventually feel better and we could resume our usual friendship. But on the other hand, I also wasn't clear on who else was giving her support during this time and if I was the only person in her support network then ... maybe that's why it felt so overwhelming to me. I also think I'm not at a place in my life where I feel that unhappy myself these days, and I felt like it was much easier to commiserate with her when I was less happy or going through something challenging.
I also feel like part of the reason why I withdrew is because I feel like I could "say the wrong thing" around her. I remember feeling like we would sometimes be talking about something super benign... like a TV show or whatever, and then the conversation would escalate and it'd suddenly be like "wait... are we arguing about something?" I felt like I couldn't share things about myself because there was a risk that my views or experiences (even if they were positive) could potentially get picked apart or cast in a negative light. That hasn't happened that frequently, but it has happened enough that I realized that I just wanted to avoid it altogether... something does not feel emotionally comfortable here.
Now she's really angry and there's tension between us. I've apologized and tried to explain to her some of what my experience has been. She said things like "it was hard for me when you were struggling, too," and "you've really changed." Now, whenever I ask her how she's doing, she will just say "good." I'm not sure if she's giving me the silent treatment exactly, but things just feel wrong. I've tried to explain to her what happened, but she has also started to answer everything I say with another question rather than telling me how she feels or even how she is taking in the things I am saying. She also has started sentences like "it sounds like you think x" (I'm not sure if that's something she sees as a line that therapists say?) to almost force the conversation along because then I have to refute or qualify the words she is almost putting into my mouth. She also told me that months ago, she didn't even know if she should invite me to her wedding (I'm still slated to be MOH?) but I'm not sure if that was just said in a moment of hurt or if that was real. All of that contributes to this general feeling of ick.
I feel like I'm cast as the person who messed up, because I was the one who flaked on her, which I do feel bad about, but I also think that there's more to discuss, that it isn't just me, and I don't know how to really go about that with communication going the way it is right now. I feel that with the tension, I'm compelled to apologize, but ... about what? I already apologized for flaking. I really wish that I could do something to help this situation. This is one of my longest friendships, hopefully a friend for life, and I care about her. Maybe I should lay low and just wait for time to heal the wound? Also worried about how to go into being in her wedding with this atmosphere.
Have you ever been in my or my friend's situation? What helped the situation? How do I go about this in a way that doesn't make things worse?
She also has started sentences like "it sounds like you think x" (I'm not sure if that's something she sees as a line that therapists say?) to almost force the conversation along because then I have to refute or qualify the words she is almost putting into my mouth.
When she does that, I would try responding with a question such as "What has made you think that?". It sounds like she is projecting stuff onto you, and that might help her to realise that, if she has to examine where her assumptions are coming from.
She also told me that months ago, she didn't even know if she should invite me to her wedding (I'm still slated to be MOH?) but I'm not sure if that was just said in a moment of hurt or if that was real.
I feel for your friend, it sounds like she's having a rough time, but ugh - this is gross behaviour. If she's that upset with you, then sure uninvite you. But hanging it over you like that is outrageously manipulative, not to mention very immature. It reminds me of when I was at school and kids would be like, if you don't play my game you can't come to my birthday party.
How do I go about this in a way that doesn't make things worse?
I listened to a great podcast this morning which talked about "the power of the helpless", ie. the vortex that one can get sucked into when one is trying to help someone. You can keep trying and offering advice, but only they have the power to do something about it, and if they don't then they pull helper-people into their orbit, drain them of energy, and leave them feeling bad too.
If you're putting very much more energy into this friendship than you're getting out of it, you're going to end up drained too before too long.
To your question then - how do you not make things worse... Who do you want to not make them worse for? She will be worse off if you take a step back for a while, but you will be very much better off by the sounds of it. And maybe you'll both be better able to have a healthy friendship if you come back to it from a bit of a break. If not... maybe it's run it's course.
posted by greenish at 3:50 AM on February 3, 2020
When she does that, I would try responding with a question such as "What has made you think that?". It sounds like she is projecting stuff onto you, and that might help her to realise that, if she has to examine where her assumptions are coming from.
She also told me that months ago, she didn't even know if she should invite me to her wedding (I'm still slated to be MOH?) but I'm not sure if that was just said in a moment of hurt or if that was real.
I feel for your friend, it sounds like she's having a rough time, but ugh - this is gross behaviour. If she's that upset with you, then sure uninvite you. But hanging it over you like that is outrageously manipulative, not to mention very immature. It reminds me of when I was at school and kids would be like, if you don't play my game you can't come to my birthday party.
How do I go about this in a way that doesn't make things worse?
I listened to a great podcast this morning which talked about "the power of the helpless", ie. the vortex that one can get sucked into when one is trying to help someone. You can keep trying and offering advice, but only they have the power to do something about it, and if they don't then they pull helper-people into their orbit, drain them of energy, and leave them feeling bad too.
If you're putting very much more energy into this friendship than you're getting out of it, you're going to end up drained too before too long.
To your question then - how do you not make things worse... Who do you want to not make them worse for? She will be worse off if you take a step back for a while, but you will be very much better off by the sounds of it. And maybe you'll both be better able to have a healthy friendship if you come back to it from a bit of a break. If not... maybe it's run it's course.
posted by greenish at 3:50 AM on February 3, 2020
"you've really changed."
From your description it sounds like you both have, so much so that the two of you probably would not become friends if you met today.
You seem like you've moved into a more comfortable and mature emotional place and she seems to have been left behind for now. That happens, unfortunately. IMHO, given the mismatch it's probably best to put the whole BFF thing on hold for a few years while you both continue to develop.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:24 AM on February 3, 2020
From your description it sounds like you both have, so much so that the two of you probably would not become friends if you met today.
You seem like you've moved into a more comfortable and mature emotional place and she seems to have been left behind for now. That happens, unfortunately. IMHO, given the mismatch it's probably best to put the whole BFF thing on hold for a few years while you both continue to develop.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:24 AM on February 3, 2020
First in my opinion 15 years is a pretty long friendship. If the only thing that separates your friendship were distance I could see the point your friend has made. However it seems as though every conversation she wants to have with you starts and ends with her negative moods and that cant be helpful for either of you. There is something to the fact that you are a therapist being able to be objective but for her to spend your ear only to rant and rave about every little thing is exhausting to read about so I know it must suck to be on the receiving end. If she has so much anger at her life why doesnt she just see a therapist? Or call on one of her local friends who might know the characters in her soap operas a little better? Maybe she has some part to play in all of her neuroses and since you arent there you cn just validate her claims against the other people in the story. At any rate the amount of time she spends griping could seriously be a danger to your peaceful existence and your friendship. Maybe when you clear your head you can just tell her that all of your work is spent in high drama and you dont want to use her life as unbilled therapy time. Maybe she just doesnt realize shes coming off that way.
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 5:30 AM on February 3, 2020
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 5:30 AM on February 3, 2020
She also told me that months ago, she didn't even know if she should invite me to her wedding (I'm still slated to be MOH?) but I'm not sure if that was just said in a moment of hurt or if that was real.
Don't make any big decisions about the friendship until the wedding is over. I went through a very similar rough patch with a close friend that got worse and worse in the run up to her wedding. All my other friends said that I should hang tight until the wedding was in the rear-view because weddings can be a ton of pressure and stress on the bride, and not everyone handles that well -- and in retrospect, I think that was great advice. Also consider that you're her MOH and close friend who she's always trusted to bring her problems to, so she might be lashing out at you especially because you're a "safe" person to do that with (especially right now, when she's got to be very protective of her relationship with her fiance).
Also, I think that maybe some of the anxiety about this friendship and how you communicate is coming from your side. When she tries to echo back what you're saying, it might not be some "therapy-speak" put on, it could be her genuinely asking for clarity and trying to improve communication. Try to assume the best of her. Try to stay open to her and communicate in good faith. Remember that this is someone who you love and who loves you.
If talking is not going well at the moment, I would think about cutting back on it and communicating that you care about her in other ways, like by sending little gifts/cards when you think of her, texting just to say congrats or happy [celebration] on big days, asking for wedding-related tasks you can take on and then coming through with them. You know, the love languages thing -- maybe you need to rely on gifts, acts of service, and affirmations right now.
I would generally put the relationship in "maintenance mode" for a while and see how things go. While a friend and I were going through a similarly difficult period, she had a sudden tragic loss and it really reminded me how deeply I loved her, and it changed her perspective a lot, too. You never know what's going to happen.
Personally, I would think of this as a rough patch, not an ending -- life-long relationships are going to have rough patches. It's 100% normal and fine to be hurt and to struggle during them, but that doesn't mean that the current state of things will last forever or that anything drastic has to be done. Also, I would think of this in terms of commitment -- are you committed to being friends for life? If so, then re-frame the situation in your mind so that it's about how to keep the relationship alive during this difficult time so that it can flourish again one day. (And personally, I think that it's worth the commitment -- close, lifelong friends are a treasure).
posted by rue72 at 7:44 AM on February 3, 2020
Don't make any big decisions about the friendship until the wedding is over. I went through a very similar rough patch with a close friend that got worse and worse in the run up to her wedding. All my other friends said that I should hang tight until the wedding was in the rear-view because weddings can be a ton of pressure and stress on the bride, and not everyone handles that well -- and in retrospect, I think that was great advice. Also consider that you're her MOH and close friend who she's always trusted to bring her problems to, so she might be lashing out at you especially because you're a "safe" person to do that with (especially right now, when she's got to be very protective of her relationship with her fiance).
Also, I think that maybe some of the anxiety about this friendship and how you communicate is coming from your side. When she tries to echo back what you're saying, it might not be some "therapy-speak" put on, it could be her genuinely asking for clarity and trying to improve communication. Try to assume the best of her. Try to stay open to her and communicate in good faith. Remember that this is someone who you love and who loves you.
If talking is not going well at the moment, I would think about cutting back on it and communicating that you care about her in other ways, like by sending little gifts/cards when you think of her, texting just to say congrats or happy [celebration] on big days, asking for wedding-related tasks you can take on and then coming through with them. You know, the love languages thing -- maybe you need to rely on gifts, acts of service, and affirmations right now.
I would generally put the relationship in "maintenance mode" for a while and see how things go. While a friend and I were going through a similarly difficult period, she had a sudden tragic loss and it really reminded me how deeply I loved her, and it changed her perspective a lot, too. You never know what's going to happen.
Personally, I would think of this as a rough patch, not an ending -- life-long relationships are going to have rough patches. It's 100% normal and fine to be hurt and to struggle during them, but that doesn't mean that the current state of things will last forever or that anything drastic has to be done. Also, I would think of this in terms of commitment -- are you committed to being friends for life? If so, then re-frame the situation in your mind so that it's about how to keep the relationship alive during this difficult time so that it can flourish again one day. (And personally, I think that it's worth the commitment -- close, lifelong friends are a treasure).
posted by rue72 at 7:44 AM on February 3, 2020
You mention that you are holding back somewhat out of concern for her / sensitivity. I actually think that might be the problem. I would try being open and direct with her—if you share something and she picks a fight say “hey don’t do that, that’s jerky” or “I was chatting, please don’t try to pick a fight about it.” If she is sending you complaints night after night after night, say “ok my little storm cloud, let’s brainstorm what to do about all these things and then I can tell you about my annoying coworker!”
Sometimes one person being “real” while the other is holding back trying to be polite comes across as a mismatch, like someone needs to be treated with kid gloves. That erodes the feeling of equal footing at the heart of good friendship. One person can sense the other person tiptoeing around the conversation and that feels kind of shitty and condescending. You might want to clear the air first with a bigger conversation.
Of course, all this is if you decide the friendship is worth keeping.
posted by sallybrown at 9:02 AM on February 3, 2020
Sometimes one person being “real” while the other is holding back trying to be polite comes across as a mismatch, like someone needs to be treated with kid gloves. That erodes the feeling of equal footing at the heart of good friendship. One person can sense the other person tiptoeing around the conversation and that feels kind of shitty and condescending. You might want to clear the air first with a bigger conversation.
Of course, all this is if you decide the friendship is worth keeping.
posted by sallybrown at 9:02 AM on February 3, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
As I got older, those friends fell away because even though we were close and I liked them, I grew out of the need to vent and complain, and it turned out there wasn't anything to replace that pattern. In one case the friendship evolved because we BOTH made an effort, but we also became a lot more distant. Good friends, but we only see one another every now and then. We can rely on one another in an emergency, but we're not Best Friends anymore.
I think that it takes both people to commit to to being generous and kind for a friendship to last. What you describe sounds very one sided.
It seems like your friend has not learned yet that she can't expect other people to "fix" her unhappiness. Until that happens, there is very little you can do to help her.
Maybe if you guys could meet and have a heart to heart conversation? That might help, but trying to do anything as delicate as that over the phone /text etc just sounds like a bad idea to me.
posted by Zumbador at 2:46 AM on February 3, 2020