What's the taste I don't like in some red wines?
November 25, 2019 7:58 PM Subscribe
Many red wines, even good ones, have a taste that I and my wife both find unpleasant. But I don't have the vocabulary to describe it, and so I don't know how to avoid it.
The taste might be described as "astringent", or "mineral", or "earthy" (especially if "earthy" means "tastes like dirt".) I don't get it in cabernet sauvingnion, or most pinot noirs. I've never encountered it in a white wine. It's not really the same as the taste opened wine gets as it oxidizes. It seems to be a stylistic preference, as both cheap and expensive wines may have this taste. It's hard to describe, because I can't think of anything else that quite tastes like that. Highland Scotch maybe (not peaty Scotch).
Does anyone know the word for what I'm talking about? It's so common that I feel like it should be one of the fundamental axes for describing red wine, but I'm at loss. I want to be able to tell liquor store employees what it is that I don't want.
The taste might be described as "astringent", or "mineral", or "earthy" (especially if "earthy" means "tastes like dirt".) I don't get it in cabernet sauvingnion, or most pinot noirs. I've never encountered it in a white wine. It's not really the same as the taste opened wine gets as it oxidizes. It seems to be a stylistic preference, as both cheap and expensive wines may have this taste. It's hard to describe, because I can't think of anything else that quite tastes like that. Highland Scotch maybe (not peaty Scotch).
Does anyone know the word for what I'm talking about? It's so common that I feel like it should be one of the fundamental axes for describing red wine, but I'm at loss. I want to be able to tell liquor store employees what it is that I don't want.
Response by poster: Hmm, that second link says that Cabernet Sauvingnion is supposed to be high in tannins, though. Do tannins have a taste, beyond just the mouthfeel effect? This is definitely something I taste.
posted by serathen at 8:16 PM on November 25, 2019
posted by serathen at 8:16 PM on November 25, 2019
Tannins taste like a really strong cup of black tea without any milk in it.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:18 PM on November 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:18 PM on November 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Minerality, maybe?
There's something about some red wines that I also dislike but I perceive it less as a flavor and more as .... almost gaps between the flavors? I tried to describe it to a friend who is knowledgeable about wine and she suggested it might be minerality.
posted by bunderful at 8:24 PM on November 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
There's something about some red wines that I also dislike but I perceive it less as a flavor and more as .... almost gaps between the flavors? I tried to describe it to a friend who is knowledgeable about wine and she suggested it might be minerality.
posted by bunderful at 8:24 PM on November 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
For me the taste I dislike is definitely "tannins" in red wine - and I'm no expert but white wines typically lack them. FWIW I've had a few Cab Sauvs that don't taste this (bad) way to me. Maybe you've been lucky?
I try to seek out Cabernet Franc, Grenache and Cotes-du-Rhone reds as at least in my experience they tend to be less tannic. Or Chateauneuf-du-Papes if I'm feeling fancy ;)
Seconding the black tea comparison.
posted by jacquilinala at 8:27 PM on November 25, 2019
I try to seek out Cabernet Franc, Grenache and Cotes-du-Rhone reds as at least in my experience they tend to be less tannic. Or Chateauneuf-du-Papes if I'm feeling fancy ;)
Seconding the black tea comparison.
posted by jacquilinala at 8:27 PM on November 25, 2019
nth tannic.
posted by pompomtom at 8:28 PM on November 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by pompomtom at 8:28 PM on November 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
I hate to mention beer, but if beer spends too long at too high a temperature, some of us will detect a background flavour that we call "jet fuel." Faint, but destroys the drink.
Does that resonate?
posted by dustpuppy at 9:12 PM on November 25, 2019
Does that resonate?
posted by dustpuppy at 9:12 PM on November 25, 2019
or "earthy" (especially if "earthy" means "tastes like dirt".)
Probably geosmin:
posted by jamjam at 9:16 PM on November 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Probably geosmin:
Geosmin - a flavour associated with some types of cork taint - imparts an undesireable earthy / mouldy note to wine, reminiscent of sugar beets or damp soil. It can be imparted to wine through use of grapes which have been affected by grey rot. Use of dirty barrels or corks can also be responsible for this taint.Also notable as a chemical humans can smell at very low concentrations, around five parts per trillion.
posted by jamjam at 9:16 PM on November 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Tannins. Ask your local wine shop how to avoid them. You are not alone. They also give me a headache.
posted by xammerboy at 9:27 PM on November 25, 2019
posted by xammerboy at 9:27 PM on November 25, 2019
Definitely sounds like you don't like a wine where tannins are at the forefront. Malbecs have lower levels of tannins, but are very fruit-forward, so you get the complexity without noticing the tannins as much. Oaked pinot noirs will be low on tannins and have more sweet vanilla notes that would override any of the tannic bitterness/earthiness. Maybe try a Boujoulais (lighter) or a Bordeaux (heavier) -- very low on tannins and will have lots of other flavors!
posted by erst at 9:59 PM on November 25, 2019
posted by erst at 9:59 PM on November 25, 2019
Wait, where do you taste it? Can you give examples of problematic kinds of wine?
posted by purpleclover at 10:08 PM on November 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by purpleclover at 10:08 PM on November 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Just another thought, because it doesn't really fit your described criteria: sulphur?
posted by gakiko at 10:40 PM on November 25, 2019
posted by gakiko at 10:40 PM on November 25, 2019
Corked?
Sorry can’t link at the moment...
https://vinepair.com/wine-101/tell-wine-corked/
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:28 PM on November 25, 2019
Sorry can’t link at the moment...
https://vinepair.com/wine-101/tell-wine-corked/
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:28 PM on November 25, 2019
That you're only noticing this in red wines makes me wonder if you're tasting brett, or Brettanomyces. It's a spoilage yeast, mostly only shows up in red wines, and isn't a big deal in small quantities. It does, though, kind of have a bit of a funky taste that ranges from earthy to barnyard-y to ass-like depending on the specific wine and your tastebuds.
posted by blerghamot at 11:54 PM on November 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by blerghamot at 11:54 PM on November 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think I know what you mean, and I don't think it's tannins. But I also have never found a word for it. The first time I noticed it it was in an old bottle of some German wine I can't name and I thought it was a flavor associated with wine that had gone off, but I've since tasted it in fresh bottles of different varietals of non-German wine so I think it's actually a style choice.
To me it does taste astringent, almost medicinal. It's kind of a sharp flavor that gets in your nose and puts a corner where other wines are round. It's almost phenolic (like Cloraseptic}, but not precisely.
It's very hard to describe! I've been hoping that flavor comes up sometime when I'm out wine tasting so I can ask and contrast it with other wines, but so far I haven't been so lucky.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 12:35 AM on November 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
To me it does taste astringent, almost medicinal. It's kind of a sharp flavor that gets in your nose and puts a corner where other wines are round. It's almost phenolic (like Cloraseptic}, but not precisely.
It's very hard to describe! I've been hoping that flavor comes up sometime when I'm out wine tasting so I can ask and contrast it with other wines, but so far I haven't been so lucky.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 12:35 AM on November 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
Tannic wines that have less alcohol tend to taste more astringent. Maybe worth checking whether this is a common thread in your preferences?
FWIW, this doesn't sound like corked wine to me; the best markers for that I've heard described as a dusty, stale smell and an aftertaste like wet cardboard.
posted by protorp at 1:35 AM on November 26, 2019
FWIW, this doesn't sound like corked wine to me; the best markers for that I've heard described as a dusty, stale smell and an aftertaste like wet cardboard.
posted by protorp at 1:35 AM on November 26, 2019
More about geosmin, which evidently damaged a number of French wines of early 2000s vintages.
It's kind of a sharp flavor that gets in your nose and puts a corner where other wines are round. It's almost phenolic (like Cloraseptic}, but not precisely.
under_petticoat_rule, that sounds like 2,4,6 trichloroanisole (TCA), which is a fungal metabolite of 2,4,6, trichlorophenol, a fungicide and wood preservative.
TCA is also a cork taint, and the only other compound I know of which can vie with geosmin for the lowest threshold of detectability by human noses.
It amazes me that you could characterize its chemical nature so closely merely from its odor!
You must have a formidably sophisticated palate!
posted by jamjam at 1:36 AM on November 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
It's kind of a sharp flavor that gets in your nose and puts a corner where other wines are round. It's almost phenolic (like Cloraseptic}, but not precisely.
under_petticoat_rule, that sounds like 2,4,6 trichloroanisole (TCA), which is a fungal metabolite of 2,4,6, trichlorophenol, a fungicide and wood preservative.
TCA is also a cork taint, and the only other compound I know of which can vie with geosmin for the lowest threshold of detectability by human noses.
It amazes me that you could characterize its chemical nature so closely merely from its odor!
You must have a formidably sophisticated palate!
posted by jamjam at 1:36 AM on November 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
astringent and earthy are two really different tasting notes! if you don't mind wines that are considered to be tannic, I think it's something else other than astringent. You might want to check out the Wine Aroma Wheel and see if you can ID something with more specificity?
Would you describe the flavor as herbaceous/peppery/vegetal? That's a common flavor (not a fault) in many red wines that I personally really dislike, and maybe that's what the combo of earth/astringent registers to you?
posted by schwinggg! at 6:22 AM on November 26, 2019
Would you describe the flavor as herbaceous/peppery/vegetal? That's a common flavor (not a fault) in many red wines that I personally really dislike, and maybe that's what the combo of earth/astringent registers to you?
posted by schwinggg! at 6:22 AM on November 26, 2019
It might help to know what wines you have encountered it in, and in what severity.
I personally love a lot of reds, but I can barely tolerate merlot (which is a hugely popular American wine). I get just a generally unpleasant feel from merlot, kind of metallic? I think it's what's described as velvety: "When a wine has very soft tannins and, usually, a good amount of oak. Velvety wines feel soft and rich on your palate. —J.B."
It may be the oaking process, as I also discovered the reason I detest most chardonnays is because they're oaked. An unoaked chardonnay is actually quite lovely.
The "velvety" mouthfeel to me is like something stuck to my mouth and it's awful.
Reds I prefer include: dry northern Italian wines (chianti, sangiovese), malbec, tempranillo.
posted by DoubleLune at 6:53 AM on November 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
I personally love a lot of reds, but I can barely tolerate merlot (which is a hugely popular American wine). I get just a generally unpleasant feel from merlot, kind of metallic? I think it's what's described as velvety: "When a wine has very soft tannins and, usually, a good amount of oak. Velvety wines feel soft and rich on your palate. —J.B."
It may be the oaking process, as I also discovered the reason I detest most chardonnays is because they're oaked. An unoaked chardonnay is actually quite lovely.
The "velvety" mouthfeel to me is like something stuck to my mouth and it's awful.
Reds I prefer include: dry northern Italian wines (chianti, sangiovese), malbec, tempranillo.
posted by DoubleLune at 6:53 AM on November 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
Tannic acid flavors are often descrobed as "oak" or "oaky" - suck on an oak tree leaf to see what we mean. I live in Hungary where a lot of the local wines are very oaky, but we like them that way and a french red wine often seems too light for my tastes. As soon as you get to the southern slope of the Alps / Adriatic / Carpathian highlands towards the Mediterranean the limestone in the soil rises and the wines are more tempered. My favorite reds are from NE Italy (Collio in Friuli) and nearby Istria in Croatia.
On the other hand, its just fermented grape juice so enjoy it wherever it comes from!
posted by zaelic at 7:33 AM on November 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, its just fermented grape juice so enjoy it wherever it comes from!
posted by zaelic at 7:33 AM on November 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Put me in the column of also disliking oak-forward wines. In higher-tannin wines that are very oaky, it comes off as...well, like sucking on a piece of wood. In softer wines, it tastes to me like someone dumped a bottle of cheap imitation vanilla in there.
posted by desuetude at 7:49 AM on November 26, 2019
posted by desuetude at 7:49 AM on November 26, 2019
I'm one of those people that can taste the sulphur in wine - enough that I don't really drink it as it all (other than super sweet stuff) tastes very bitter to me. The best way I can describe the taste is that it tastes like what I imagine when I smell a match. I've never been able to confirm that's what it is, but apparently wine does have sulphur in it so it makes sense.
posted by _DB_ at 9:13 AM on November 26, 2019
posted by _DB_ at 9:13 AM on November 26, 2019
It would be really helpful if you could name a few wines that are intolerably affected by mystery flavor X.
posted by wnissen at 9:27 AM on November 26, 2019
posted by wnissen at 9:27 AM on November 26, 2019
Try a red made without oak -- aka made in stainless steel barrels. I find very oaky wines to be very harsh, sour, and minerally. The only unoaked red I can name off the top of my head is De Lauch Pinot Noir. It's not expensive.
posted by wryly at 12:44 PM on November 26, 2019
posted by wryly at 12:44 PM on November 26, 2019
Low-tannin reds IME include barberas, pinot noirs, and beaujolais. Also various other reds, but you'd have to ask at a good local wine shop for recommendations.
posted by suelac at 5:27 PM on November 26, 2019
posted by suelac at 5:27 PM on November 26, 2019
Does your local wine store host free tastings with different wine vendors/distributors? I was able to learn a lot about wine in a short time by taking advantage of as many of these as I could. If you get lucky and one of the wines you taste has that flavor you dislike, you can just straight-up ask the rep, “I find this one a little distasteful. What do you think I’m reacting to?” They will know the taste profile of their wines and should be able to make a good guess. Don’t be self-conscious about this — no matter how little you know about wine tasting and vocabulary, you will stand out by virtue of your inquisitiveness.
posted by Mothlight at 7:24 AM on November 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Mothlight at 7:24 AM on November 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
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