Told not to ask for a raise before bonus - what to do?

October 21, 2019 1:56 PM

After delaying my annual review, I was told to not ask for a raise right now because the owners would almost certainly take it out of my end year bonus and to ask in the new year. This feels... awful.

I guess this is a question about what my boss could be thinking or trying to tell me. You're not mind-readers, but is there any point in salvaging the stuff below? Is it possible she's telling the truth or is she telling me to get out now?

Small ad agency. The owners are barely around, and my boss has joked recently that one of them would love to not pay us at all and just keep all the money. I delayed my review when things kept dying on me in February/March, started it up in my head before again shelving it due to a very toxic coworker and straight up fraud... but I went back to the PR department and have done great work while saving and preparing to go back to school.

I haven't had a raise since I started in January 2018. We have to submit for our reviews, there is no schedule for them.

I put in for my review/raise in mid-September. After over 3 weeks of my review being out in the ether but not responded to, I kind of mentally shrugged and told my boss it was fine to not do it. I got the message. Between the "they'd rather not pay us" ahem *joke* and then radio silence, I really did have a pretty clear picture of my value. She said no no no no, it's still going! And then the following Monday she gave me this:

Do not ask for a raise right now. The owners will directly take it from your bonus. You need to walk by their office a lot and say hi and make them like you as well as the head of accounts who you caught committing fraud 5 months ago. The fraud (falsifying client data, like ad campaign metrics for the company executives and board of directors) is accepted now, she did use the word fraud in the meeting as in "How do you feel about the fraud? Are you okay with the head of accounts?" She told me I should become friends with the guy because the owners loved him.

A few things about generally not feeling or being valued:
1. My boss almost totally ignores me. Never has any tasks for me even when asked.
2. I asked if I could telecommute one day a week over 2 months ago. She said that was good, she'd get back to me but never did.
3. I work with a friend in what was the same job title but he has always hoarded work and never encouraged me to join. In 21 months, I could count on my hand the number of times I've been brought to any meeting or introduced to clients.
3b. I've asked to attend or handle some of the things he does and both of them ignore me. I could listen many really weird examples but just trust me on this one. Yes, I have tried to talk to my friend about it. I learned he got a work promotion from LinkedIn. I don't understand what's happened to him, but our friendship doesn't exist anymore I guess.

Is the message you have no future here so go ahead and leave? I'm coordinating something now with another agency that I'm having a lot of success on, but I can't stop this awful spiraling at another confirmation that no one here values me. I fully anticipate that my bonus will be the same or lower than last year even though the company has a few more million in revenue some of which my creating a data department was responsible for (1.2 million contract).

I guess I need advice on what to do. Leave now, leave after the bonus, take my boss at her word that I really will get a raise if I apply in January/February... I don't even know. My therapist cautioned my against doing anything rash in the first year of all this grief I have so... here I am asking if this sounds normal or acceptable.

posted by OnTheLastCastle to Work & Money (13 answers total)

I don't think you have much choice but to wait to ask for the raise, but I think this is also a sign you should start putting feelers out for a new job somewhere less shitty. It's creeping toward that time in the year that nobody's hiring because of holidays, so maybe operate under the mindset that you're probably there three more months (maybe with a bonus, that'd be cool) so don't actively set any bridges on fire just yet, but if you want to start quietly hiding some flammables underneath the bridge that's fine.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:07 PM on October 21, 2019 [4 favorites]

Leave now or ASAP after the bonus. This sounds like a nightmarishly unhealthy workplace. You deserve better. They are not going to suddenly start treating you better.
posted by smich at 2:07 PM on October 21, 2019 [13 favorites]

I don't understand what your boss means by the raise being taken "directly from" your bonus. A bonus is discretionary and is never guaranteed to happen. A raise is an increase is your weekly paycheck. Unless your bonus is contracted, it's always better to get a raise. Perhaps you won't get a bonus this year because you asked for that raise. Then what do you have? A higher paycheck. Perhaps you wouldn't have gotten the bonus anyway, and without asking for the raise you'll have neither one.

Getting a raise increases your value on the job market, when you inevitably go looking for another job. A bonus never will. Ask for the raise, don't delay. You might not get it, and that will give you a clear indicator of your value.
posted by juniperesque at 2:08 PM on October 21, 2019 [28 favorites]

I'm having trouble understanding the exact dynamics in your office, but I would say a raise is better than a bonus because a raise is a base level that increases your value as you look for other jobs, and it's also guaranteed for the foreseeable future. I'd be worried that "wait to ask for a raise because it will affect your bonuses" is just nonsense to push off you asking for a raise and it actually has nothing to do with bonuses. You don't really explain why you'd be getting a bonus or what entitles you do it, but if you know you qualify for the bonuses, I'd still just ask for the raise and if they do for some reason actually conflate the two, I'd be fine with taking the bonus in the form of a raise.
posted by AppleTurnover at 2:17 PM on October 21, 2019

I shot you a message via MeFi mail since I might know people working in the same industry and we're in the same area.
posted by mikeh at 2:25 PM on October 21, 2019 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: The bonus is discretionary I learned in that conversation. I thought it was percentage based, but I was told it isn't. I wasn't quite clear on if she knew this or was guessing.

I completely agree that what I was told made no sense except if she was wink-wink telling me I would not get a raise in any proportion to what I was asking for. I've added some pretty hefty automation and data skills to my toolbox and the company has benefitted from that quite a bit.

I could push for a raise right now, but it is based on how the owners feel about me was what she said. (And by proxy not on any actual work.)
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 2:49 PM on October 21, 2019

I’d ask because the worst thing they can say is no, then I would commence looking for a new job. As an aside, I’ve worked in advertising for years and bonuses and raises were not a thing at all, extracting them was nigh on impossible (or, only after you’d won awards and they thought you might jump ship on the strength of that, the only way to generally get more money was to leave and work somewhere else, so the fact that these are even on the table is pretty good.) Regardless this sounds like a miserable place to work so I’d focus on getting out of there.
posted by Jubey at 2:55 PM on October 21, 2019

If bonuses are standard in your industry, and you have a demonstrable accomplishment of increasing revenue at your firm by 1.2M this year due to a department you created, go ahead and start job hunting now. You're a strong candidate. If you get an offer before bonus time, either negotiate a signing bonus that is equal to or greater than your current bonus target (i.e., have the new company pay you the bonus you're losing by leaving early), or have the new company wait for you to start until after bonuses are paid. This is UTTERLY normal in my own industry. Hiring more or less freezes in Jan/Feb as everyone waits for bonuses to be paid in late Feb/early March, and then it's a spree. Anyone hiring this time of year will expect to buy out your anticipated bonus if they want you to start before it's paid. And if bonuses at your current job are as prone to favoritism as it sounds like, you may well make out better this way.

As for whether it's better to ask for the raise now and risk having it taken out of your bonus: do the algebra. If you get a 5K raise and your bonus target is 20%, well, is 1.2X greater or lesser than [1.2(x+5)]-5?

However, if you think it's going to be a long game to find a new job, I'd take the play your boss suggested. Presumably your boss knows the owners well, or at least longer than you have, and is drawing on experience when they are advising you.
posted by amelioration at 2:56 PM on October 21, 2019 [3 favorites]

Taking the rise out of your bonus might be your manager's way of indicating that the company's on very shaky financial ground
posted by scruss at 3:03 PM on October 21, 2019

This place sounds terrible. You might as well ask, and then, regardless of the answer, start applying for new jobs. It sounds like you might be the proverbial frog in the pot getting slowly boiled. If what you need is a reality check, yes, this job sounds like a disaster.
posted by fiercecupcake at 3:18 PM on October 21, 2019

So it sounds like it's a relatively small place where the owners don't have a lot of HR systems and do a lot based on how they feel about people. A coworker of yours did something unethical (illegal?) but is still there because they are well-liked. And you are the person who took down (in their mind) this person.

It sounds like you have expectations like it's a better run company. I don't think your boss is trying to push you out -- I think your boss's suggestion to be friendlier with a few key folks is their way of letting you know that you could stand to re-build some social capital at work.

I put in for my review/raise in mid-September. After over 3 weeks of my review being out in the ether but not responded to, I kind of mentally shrugged and told my boss it was fine to not do it. I got the message. Between the "they'd rather not pay us" ahem *joke* and then radio silence, I really did have a pretty clear picture of my value. She said no no no no, it's still going!

I think you're personalizing something that isn't completely about you. Rather, maybe your boss was trying to navigate something tricky -- or maybe your boss was behind or procrastinating or something else.

Regardless, this place isn't a formal bureaucracy with systems based on merit and fairness. It's a small company where the owners make decisions based on their personal feelings towards people. I'd suggesting doing good work, keeping your head down, and looking for other jobs.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:08 PM on October 21, 2019 [4 favorites]

You created a data department which increased revenue, and uncovered wrongdoing at your company. The absentee owners love the fraudster but need to be cajoled into liking you.
Find a new job.

Maybe ask for the raise at this job when you're in the second-interview stage for the new gig, to better negotiate for the new gig. Or move up the date your return-to-school plans, if that suits.

(Regarding section(s) 3/3b -- this may be a separate Ask entirely. I'm sorry your friendship is currently a dud.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:01 PM on October 21, 2019 [1 favorite]

I'm hearing big loud sirens in your manager's message to you.

1. The owners are unhappy about giving you a raise because they don't like you enough
2. The owners have power over day to day compensation decisions (small company, might make sense)
3. One reason they don't like you is that you upset their buddy by finding his fraud
4. They are somewhat capricious with end of year bonuses and will change them based on recent feelings and recollections

I assume your manager is giving you the best possible advice they can, as a person who has learned to cope in this environment: make nice, be seen by the people in power, be friendly, don't upset the apple cart, don't ask for things you're owed if management isn't going to "feel like" giving them to you.

So, yeah. Resumes out. Meanwhile, hey, can't hurt to try it.
posted by Lady Li at 1:06 PM on October 22, 2019 [1 favorite]