Crossing the Irish border in November
October 16, 2019 6:28 AM
I may not have a passport in November. I'll need to cross the border from Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland then, before returning to Northern Ireland. In the event of a no-deal Brexit, is there any chance I'll have a problem crossing the border? There's a lot of talk about customs checks and regulatory checks for goods, but, happily for me, I don't see any discussion of the possibility of passport controls.
is there any chance I'll have a problem crossing the border?
Yes, but probably not if you're Irish or British.
Within the Common Travel Area, it's only Irish and UK citizens who actually enjoy true freedom of movement. Here's what the Irish government say and here's what the UK government say (large PDF). It doesn't matter if you drive, fly, take a train or sail - you can be asked to identify yourself and prove your entitlement to be in the UK/Ireland. The simplest way to do this, of course, is with a passport.
So the real question here is: where is your passport from? If it's from another EU country or basically any another wealthy developed place and you normally have the right to be in Ireland/the UK for a vacation or something without a visa, or with a visa waiver, I think the absolute worst you could expect is some sort of ID check at the border itself and perhaps a passport stamp - and that would be with a hard border in place soon after Brexit, which is hard to see happening.
I would, if possible, get an emergency or even a second passport for this journey if you're not Irish or British, just to prove your identity and entitlement to be there.
posted by mdonley at 7:17 AM on October 16, 2019
Yes, but probably not if you're Irish or British.
Within the Common Travel Area, it's only Irish and UK citizens who actually enjoy true freedom of movement. Here's what the Irish government say and here's what the UK government say (large PDF). It doesn't matter if you drive, fly, take a train or sail - you can be asked to identify yourself and prove your entitlement to be in the UK/Ireland. The simplest way to do this, of course, is with a passport.
So the real question here is: where is your passport from? If it's from another EU country or basically any another wealthy developed place and you normally have the right to be in Ireland/the UK for a vacation or something without a visa, or with a visa waiver, I think the absolute worst you could expect is some sort of ID check at the border itself and perhaps a passport stamp - and that would be with a hard border in place soon after Brexit, which is hard to see happening.
I would, if possible, get an emergency or even a second passport for this journey if you're not Irish or British, just to prove your identity and entitlement to be there.
posted by mdonley at 7:17 AM on October 16, 2019
Thanks for these responses! I am entitled to Irish and British passports but -- if I follow my current plan to renew my passport -- I'm not sure I'll have a passport at the time of travel. I shouldn't have much trouble convincing the authorities that I am entitled to free movement within the Common Travel Area. I could bring my birth certificate (not conclusive evidence in this instance but probably strong enough).
posted by EtTuHealy at 8:56 AM on October 16, 2019
posted by EtTuHealy at 8:56 AM on October 16, 2019
I am entitled to Irish and British passports
More for pedantic clarification than anything else and because there can be confusion between citizenship and entitlement to citizenship, but when you say this, do you mean that you have British and/or Irish citizenship by e.g. on the Irish side being either born on the island or Ireland, or having a parent born on the island of Ireland, or that you are entitled to citizenship by having the proverbial Irish granny? If it's the first you're good to go, but if it's the latter then it may not be the case.
posted by scorbet at 3:37 AM on October 17, 2019
More for pedantic clarification than anything else and because there can be confusion between citizenship and entitlement to citizenship, but when you say this, do you mean that you have British and/or Irish citizenship by e.g. on the Irish side being either born on the island or Ireland, or having a parent born on the island of Ireland, or that you are entitled to citizenship by having the proverbial Irish granny? If it's the first you're good to go, but if it's the latter then it may not be the case.
posted by scorbet at 3:37 AM on October 17, 2019
Nice request for clarification. It's the first and I am currently both a citizen of Ireland and a subject of Her Majesty the Queen.
posted by EtTuHealy at 5:46 AM on October 17, 2019
posted by EtTuHealy at 5:46 AM on October 17, 2019
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The situation now pre-Brexit is that there are already immigration checks at least on the Irish side on randomly chosen buses, and possibly trains. There was one such check described in the last Brexit thread. The problem is that the UK and Ireland don't have a common visa protocol - there is no equivalent of the Schengen area visa available. Therefore, there are random checks on the border by the Gardaí to try and catch people entering Ireland without a valid visa and have been for years.
It's not quite clear whether Irish/British citizens actually need to have ID on them, thanks to the Common Travel Area, and photo ID would probably suffice in that case. There have also been issues in the past with the Guards targeting the "obviously non-Irish/British" i.e. non-white for checking of passports and ignoring the others present, but this philosophy may have changed to check everyone instead.
Post even a no-deal Brexit, the CTA is supposed to stay in place, so it should not change that situation. There may be increased random checking, but there would probably not be a permanent passport control on the border. (This would be the type of border infrastructure that no-one wants to see).
posted by scorbet at 7:12 AM on October 16, 2019