Advice on buying a used electric car
July 30, 2019 11:33 AM Subscribe
I'm looking at buying a used electric car and have some questions. About battery degradation, makes/models, and places to find them!
Okay, so I'm looking to find a used electric car with a price range of $12k or less (open to a bit more if necessary, let's say up to $13k). I've been doing some research and looking at options but want some more perspective and information.
The biggest concern I have is around battery degradation. Are there some makes/models where that seems to be less of an issue? Does the warranty offered by manufacturers around the battery not losing more than a certain percentage of capacity apply even to used cars? Are there things that void that warranty, like getting into an accident?
The models that I've found that fit into my budget so far are: the Nissan Leaf, the Ford Focus Electric, and the Volkswagen E-Golf. One that might but that I can't stand aesthetically and is probably too small for me is the Fiat 500. Are there other makes/models that likely fit my parameters?
I've found the website myev.com that includes a space for listing used cars, which has led me to discover some good possibilities. Are there other specialized websites that I should be aware of? Also curious if there might be recommended (or anti-recommended!) dealerships that focus on or have a decent supply of electric cars--I live in Portland, Oregon.
This is the part that I've researched least, but it seems like insurance premiums are slightly but not wildly more expensive and that's mostly due to the increased up front cost of a new electric car. So with my price range, that's probably not a huge factor, yeah? I don't mind paying a bit more for insurance, which seems like it would be more than offset by the savings in gas and maintenance but don't want to be shocked by having to pay like 50% more or something.
Finally, anything else I should think about/ask about/consider around all this? Especially curious to hear from current or past owners of electric cars--what do you wish you had known before you purchased yours?
Okay, so I'm looking to find a used electric car with a price range of $12k or less (open to a bit more if necessary, let's say up to $13k). I've been doing some research and looking at options but want some more perspective and information.
The biggest concern I have is around battery degradation. Are there some makes/models where that seems to be less of an issue? Does the warranty offered by manufacturers around the battery not losing more than a certain percentage of capacity apply even to used cars? Are there things that void that warranty, like getting into an accident?
The models that I've found that fit into my budget so far are: the Nissan Leaf, the Ford Focus Electric, and the Volkswagen E-Golf. One that might but that I can't stand aesthetically and is probably too small for me is the Fiat 500. Are there other makes/models that likely fit my parameters?
I've found the website myev.com that includes a space for listing used cars, which has led me to discover some good possibilities. Are there other specialized websites that I should be aware of? Also curious if there might be recommended (or anti-recommended!) dealerships that focus on or have a decent supply of electric cars--I live in Portland, Oregon.
This is the part that I've researched least, but it seems like insurance premiums are slightly but not wildly more expensive and that's mostly due to the increased up front cost of a new electric car. So with my price range, that's probably not a huge factor, yeah? I don't mind paying a bit more for insurance, which seems like it would be more than offset by the savings in gas and maintenance but don't want to be shocked by having to pay like 50% more or something.
Finally, anything else I should think about/ask about/consider around all this? Especially curious to hear from current or past owners of electric cars--what do you wish you had known before you purchased yours?
Oh, one other thing you may have figured out but in case not: getting a Level 2 EVSE installed can be a bit pricey, the unit itself is $300-500 and you may need to have an electrician install a dedicated circuit for it. Depending on how much driving you do in a day/week, you may not need to get it installed right away; you can plug into literally any outlet to charge, though charging on a regular household outlet (called Level 1 or "trickle" charging) takes a really long time, generally only adding 3 miles per hour or so -- if you bike to work and only use the car for grocery trips and whatnot then this works just fine, but if you need to be fully charged every morning you're going to want to have the EVSE installed before you bring the car home (unless you can charge at work or wherever you are during the day).
Edited to add, because a lot of new EV owners seem to not know this: if you intend to charge at public chargers, you should know that the etiquette is to only park at a charger if you're actively charging; you will need to move your car to a normal parking spot as soon as your car has finished charging. There's nothing worse than needing a charge only to find a car parked at the charger and not charging!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:33 PM on July 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
Edited to add, because a lot of new EV owners seem to not know this: if you intend to charge at public chargers, you should know that the etiquette is to only park at a charger if you're actively charging; you will need to move your car to a normal parking spot as soon as your car has finished charging. There's nothing worse than needing a charge only to find a car parked at the charger and not charging!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:33 PM on July 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
This is not EV specific, but I recently bought a new (used) car and my current insurance (through Geico) let me get a quote for insuring the new car without actually adding it to the policy. You can also do some quote shopping with different insurers for a couple of the potential cars you find to get an idea of the insurance cost. It’s helpful to have an actual car with all the trim details, mileage, etc. to fill in the quote but you can also make those things up to get a general idea.
posted by MadamM at 12:54 PM on July 30, 2019
posted by MadamM at 12:54 PM on July 30, 2019
Here's some anecdotal advice based on owning two electric cars in Portland over the past five years.
EV batteries seem to have a pretty long lifetime-there are plenty of old Priuses still on the road.
Insurance for EVs seems a bit cheaper than for gas vehicles. They are cheaper to repair, and EV drivers are likely not crazy speed racer types.
There are plenty of public chargers around Portland, so you don't really need to get a home charger installed.
The major disadvantage of EVs is that charging times can be very slow even at public chargers. It can take more than an hour to get from near empty to nearly fully charged, which makes road trips a problem.
posted by monotreme at 5:33 PM on July 30, 2019
EV batteries seem to have a pretty long lifetime-there are plenty of old Priuses still on the road.
Insurance for EVs seems a bit cheaper than for gas vehicles. They are cheaper to repair, and EV drivers are likely not crazy speed racer types.
There are plenty of public chargers around Portland, so you don't really need to get a home charger installed.
The major disadvantage of EVs is that charging times can be very slow even at public chargers. It can take more than an hour to get from near empty to nearly fully charged, which makes road trips a problem.
posted by monotreme at 5:33 PM on July 30, 2019
Last year I bought a used 2014 Nissan Leaf SV, and I don’t own on ever going back to gas as long as the other car in our household is gas or hybrid. There’s a ton of useful Nissan Leaf info on the internet, and these two sites were the most helpful as I researched. They outline all you need to know about battery degradation and years/models. Before I deleted Facebook I joined a local EV group there and got tons of helpful local tips (especially about winter driving/battery range because Minnesota). If I was more flexible about my car buying timeline I could have gotten a hell of a deal on a used EV via that group, too. I bet there’s a similar forum for Portland.
I got quotes to install a level 2 charger in our detached garage, but because we were maxed out on our electrical panel and would have to either expand our panel + bury a better line or pay for a new line drop from the pole with a second meter, our quotes were all over $1000 for electrical work alone. That said, the three times last winter when I white-knuckled my way home and didn’t know if my battery would completely die on the highway would have been prevented by having a level 2 charger at home to fully charge. Next year I’m going to borrow my husband’s car for those rare occasions because driving in cold fear is not worth it. But we’re talking about sub-zero temperature battery life here, where you instantly take a 50% hit if you drive on the highway; you’ll be fine in Portland.
I don’t have a quick charge port on my car, so I’ve only charged twice at a free public charger. It was fine and helped with winter range, but I don’t need it for my usual trips.
I’ve paid exactly $0 in maintenance in the 11 months I’ve owned the car, though I did spring for a set of snow tires/rims. It doesn’t drive as well in the snow as my old Honda Civic, but it gets in and out of my sketchy driveway crunch zone 100% better than the Civic (I thought I’d need an SUV for that type of ground clearance). In Minnesota there’s an extra $75 EV license tab annual fee because Republicans are bitter that I’m not paying gas taxes, but perhaps Oregon is better about that. My insurance is higher because I’m no longer driving a 15 year old Civic.
I got a good but not fantastic deal at a niche used car dealership that sells fancy used cars - they really didn’t know anything about electric cars, so by researching ahead I was way more knowledgeable than any of their staff. Minnesota doesn’t have great rebates for electric cars, so I saved about $5000 buying the used Leaf vs buying new. I test drove a VW eGolf elsewhere and thought it felt about the same to drive, but I was hesitant to sign up for possibly high VW repair costs down the road, plus it was expensive. I love the look of those ridiculous BMW i3s but was also leery of repair costs and didn’t want to shove my kid in the back seat via that weird half door, and it was more expensive. If there were electric Kia models in Minnesota I would have taken a look at them, but they hadn’t made it past the coasts yet.
In sum, my Nissan Leaf is amazing to drive in non-winter but is not a great car for the worst parts of Minnesota winter. I don’t think I will keep it for over a decade like my Civic, mostly because I don’t know what the battery life will be like at that point. I mostly bike and bus commute, so this car is perfect for local errands, and I am so happy to have a hatchback. And heated steering wheels are THE BEST.
posted by Maarika at 6:31 PM on July 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
I got quotes to install a level 2 charger in our detached garage, but because we were maxed out on our electrical panel and would have to either expand our panel + bury a better line or pay for a new line drop from the pole with a second meter, our quotes were all over $1000 for electrical work alone. That said, the three times last winter when I white-knuckled my way home and didn’t know if my battery would completely die on the highway would have been prevented by having a level 2 charger at home to fully charge. Next year I’m going to borrow my husband’s car for those rare occasions because driving in cold fear is not worth it. But we’re talking about sub-zero temperature battery life here, where you instantly take a 50% hit if you drive on the highway; you’ll be fine in Portland.
I don’t have a quick charge port on my car, so I’ve only charged twice at a free public charger. It was fine and helped with winter range, but I don’t need it for my usual trips.
I’ve paid exactly $0 in maintenance in the 11 months I’ve owned the car, though I did spring for a set of snow tires/rims. It doesn’t drive as well in the snow as my old Honda Civic, but it gets in and out of my sketchy driveway crunch zone 100% better than the Civic (I thought I’d need an SUV for that type of ground clearance). In Minnesota there’s an extra $75 EV license tab annual fee because Republicans are bitter that I’m not paying gas taxes, but perhaps Oregon is better about that. My insurance is higher because I’m no longer driving a 15 year old Civic.
I got a good but not fantastic deal at a niche used car dealership that sells fancy used cars - they really didn’t know anything about electric cars, so by researching ahead I was way more knowledgeable than any of their staff. Minnesota doesn’t have great rebates for electric cars, so I saved about $5000 buying the used Leaf vs buying new. I test drove a VW eGolf elsewhere and thought it felt about the same to drive, but I was hesitant to sign up for possibly high VW repair costs down the road, plus it was expensive. I love the look of those ridiculous BMW i3s but was also leery of repair costs and didn’t want to shove my kid in the back seat via that weird half door, and it was more expensive. If there were electric Kia models in Minnesota I would have taken a look at them, but they hadn’t made it past the coasts yet.
In sum, my Nissan Leaf is amazing to drive in non-winter but is not a great car for the worst parts of Minnesota winter. I don’t think I will keep it for over a decade like my Civic, mostly because I don’t know what the battery life will be like at that point. I mostly bike and bus commute, so this car is perfect for local errands, and I am so happy to have a hatchback. And heated steering wheels are THE BEST.
posted by Maarika at 6:31 PM on July 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
I have multiple coworkers who have bought used Leafs (Leaves?) as second commuting cars. Everyone is very happy with their purchase- no other car under 10k comes close.
posted by rockindata at 7:42 PM on July 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 7:42 PM on July 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
Heavy caveats: I'm writing from the UK and don't yet own an EV.
...But, if you have choice, I think it is also worth asking WHEN you should look to buy a second hand EV. I'd refer you to "Electric Vehicle Man's youtube channel - and particularly to his video where he recommends not getting an electric car in 2019 - he argues this because there is currently a bit of a market lull: many new models are due to come onto the market from next year - and the demand and interest from buyers is rising rapidly too. The result is a dearth of new cars that you can actually go out and buy: just one ones you can put yourself on the waiting list for.
These conditions have created a shortage of second hand EVs on the market - with the result that the price you are likely to pay for many second hand EVs is artificially high. The first generation EVs - with ranges of 100-130 miles are still there - and in your price range possibly - but are becoming quite old technology at this stage. To get anything newer in your price range - you would probably be best waiting until the new models have stared to appear in numbers.
posted by rongorongo at 5:41 AM on July 31, 2019
...But, if you have choice, I think it is also worth asking WHEN you should look to buy a second hand EV. I'd refer you to "Electric Vehicle Man's youtube channel - and particularly to his video where he recommends not getting an electric car in 2019 - he argues this because there is currently a bit of a market lull: many new models are due to come onto the market from next year - and the demand and interest from buyers is rising rapidly too. The result is a dearth of new cars that you can actually go out and buy: just one ones you can put yourself on the waiting list for.
These conditions have created a shortage of second hand EVs on the market - with the result that the price you are likely to pay for many second hand EVs is artificially high. The first generation EVs - with ranges of 100-130 miles are still there - and in your price range possibly - but are becoming quite old technology at this stage. To get anything newer in your price range - you would probably be best waiting until the new models have stared to appear in numbers.
posted by rongorongo at 5:41 AM on July 31, 2019
Consider a Volt - they're actually good cars, they're electric cars for almost all purposes that you could use a first generation Leaf for (mine is running >95% electric over 30k miles), and the used market has not been kind to them pricing-wise.
posted by doomsey at 1:02 PM on July 31, 2019
posted by doomsey at 1:02 PM on July 31, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you live in a hot climate, a Focus electric is going to perhaps be a better choice than a Leaf or an e-Golf, because the Focus has active battery cooling while the Leaf and e-Golf don't; heat is one thing that causes batteries to degrade. In Portland it shouldn't be an issue and I know a lot of people in the PNW (I lived there for 16 years and still have a lot of friends there and belong to the EV forums for that area) who still have full battery capacity on pretty old Leafs.
Here is a comparison of battery warranties -- it looks like VW has the best one, and Ford has the worst. Newer Leafs have 8 years just like the VW, but I'm not sure if your budget would buy you a newer 30kWh Leaf (though if you can find one of those in your price range that's what I would buy).
Ford Focus and VW both use CCS fast charging, which is more plentiful than the Nissan Leaf's CHAdeMO. CHAdeMO seems to be a fast-charging standard that is on its way out, the new Electrify America fast chargers generally have something like five CCS and only one CHAdeMO. (Also, not all cars will have fast charging ports, so that's something else to check -- though you'll likely not be using or needing fast charging very often, when you need it you need it).
Insurance is based on so many factors, but I can tell you that anecdotally, my insurance on my Leaf is slightly less than the same coverage on my husband's 2014 Ford van so I don't think insurance on an EV is necessarily more expensive.
One thing that you didn't ask about but has to be a consideration: what kind of range do you need? The Leaf is probably going to have the biggest range (though all of them are under 100 miles to a charge if you're looking to not spend more than $12-13K) so that would also be a factor you should consider.
I would also look into what kinds of incentives are available on new EVs in your area -- the reason I went with new is that I was able to get $16,500 in tax credits and rebates off the cost of a new Leaf and though it was more than I wanted to spend, it was worth it to me for the extra years of warranty and the longer range. My new Leaf cost me only $18,500 after all the incentives. The MSRP of the new ones look really high but nobody is paying that much for an EV.
Feel free to memail me if you have any questions! I love love LOVE my Leaf and I don't think I could ever go back to a gas car again. It's so great to just plug in my car at home and not ever have to stop to get gas. And my electric bill has only gone up maybe $15-20 since I got my Leaf -- the higher payment is MORE than offset by the fact that I don't have any gas, oil, or maintenance costs anymore.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 12:08 PM on July 30, 2019 [4 favorites]