Gravity is not my friend.
March 21, 2019 6:03 AM Subscribe
Okay, I admit it: I'm vain. As a fit and healthy 64-year old woman who nevertheless has bags under her eyes and sagging/wrinkled skin, maintaining my appearance can be a challenge. My skincare routine is simple: wash with Neutrogena soap, gently exfoliate every few days, and wear very little makeup except to cover the dark circles under my eyes. That's about it. I've not kept up to date with methods for combating the forces of advancing age, figuring that "gravity is not my friend" and leaving it at that. But a question here a few days ago addressed all sorts of chemical-y and laser-y procedures I never heard of, so maybe there are some things I can do to look better. Please educate me: what are my options? Assume that within reason money is no object (although some indication of approximate cost would be appreciated) but lengthy and/or intricate daily routines won't cut it for me.
Someone else can weigh in more thoroughly, but beyond washing your face, the two other basic steps most skincare folks recommend is moisturizing and using sunscreen everyday.
After that you can delve into the serums and masks and all of that, but a moisturizer to keep your skin from drying out, and a sunscreen to keep it from getting damaged are more or less table stakes. You can even use something that does both.
posted by matrixclown at 6:26 AM on March 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
After that you can delve into the serums and masks and all of that, but a moisturizer to keep your skin from drying out, and a sunscreen to keep it from getting damaged are more or less table stakes. You can even use something that does both.
posted by matrixclown at 6:26 AM on March 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Moisturizer, after washing face, every time. The women in my family all used Oil of Olay (from teens on) and everyone has awesome skin.
posted by Riverine at 6:33 AM on March 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Riverine at 6:33 AM on March 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'm a mid-30s woman, and I'm very interested in skincare. I've had excellent luck with The Ordinary's line. Their schtick is low-prices and typically single potent ingredients with the percentage disclosed. For about the past year, I've used the Ordinary, and my routine each morning and evening is now, layered:
- Buffet with copper peptides ($29) two drops to cover the face
- Matrixyl 10% ($11.50) - one drop to cover eye area and forehead
- Niacinamide/Zinc ($6) - two drops to cover whole face
- I wait about an hour at night, and then apply some form of vitamin C - either a pea-sized amount of Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate 10% ($9.60) or two drops of Ascorbic Acid/Alpha Arbutin ($10) if my face is feeling a bit more robust. Full disclosure, I'm now trying Maelove's Vitamin C/E/Ferulic/Hyaluronic ($28), which I'm liking possibly more.
I'm more skeptical than most about this sort of thing, because I've always been unhappy with my skin - it's acne-prone, red, etc. But I break out almost never now, my whole face is more glowing and less red than before, and I've been altogether very happy with my skin with The Ordinary. Each bottle lasts me 3-6 months, which I think is extremely reasonable for the price. I don't know anything about lasers or more invasive treatments, as they're way out of my price range and risk tolerance.
For you, I'd recommend thinking about exactly what problems you're most looking to address, in order of priority. Sagging? Hyperpigmentation? Dullness? Under-eye bags? I'd recommend trying out Buffet (which helps with a broad host of skin aging/texture issues), and absolutely Matrixyl (I believe it helps collagen formation, or something that makes the skin look plumper), and possibly Argireline (helps sagging). The Ordinary is a cheap way to do this. I'd also try a high-strength Vitamin C product or two (antioxidant that helps skin tone and dullness), and a retinoid (anti-aging, anti-wrinkle). So your routine might look something like this:
MORNING:
- Two drops of Buffet, spread over whole face
- Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate or another Vitamin C derivative
- Sunscreen (don't have good recommendation for a particular brand yet - I generally dislike the ones I've used, although Josie Maran's argan oil one is okay)
EVENING:
- Two drops of Matrixyl, spread over whole face
- Two drops of Argireline, spread over whole face
WAIT A BIT IF POSSIBLE
- Alternate Ascorbic Acid (any of The Ordinary's Ascorbic Acid products or the Maelove one - basically something that is at least 10% and ideally 20%) and Retin-A, every other night. You'd need to ease in slowly to those two, and the retinoid is prescription.
I think you'd see very noticeable results from these on the order of months, and definitely by 6 months to a year. With all due respect, a lot of the above answers about moisturizing etc. are probably from people with genetically good skin. If your skin isn't naturally good, you need to do things to get it to look good, as you know.
posted by ClaireBear at 6:38 AM on March 21, 2019 [14 favorites]
- Buffet with copper peptides ($29) two drops to cover the face
- Matrixyl 10% ($11.50) - one drop to cover eye area and forehead
- Niacinamide/Zinc ($6) - two drops to cover whole face
- I wait about an hour at night, and then apply some form of vitamin C - either a pea-sized amount of Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate 10% ($9.60) or two drops of Ascorbic Acid/Alpha Arbutin ($10) if my face is feeling a bit more robust. Full disclosure, I'm now trying Maelove's Vitamin C/E/Ferulic/Hyaluronic ($28), which I'm liking possibly more.
I'm more skeptical than most about this sort of thing, because I've always been unhappy with my skin - it's acne-prone, red, etc. But I break out almost never now, my whole face is more glowing and less red than before, and I've been altogether very happy with my skin with The Ordinary. Each bottle lasts me 3-6 months, which I think is extremely reasonable for the price. I don't know anything about lasers or more invasive treatments, as they're way out of my price range and risk tolerance.
For you, I'd recommend thinking about exactly what problems you're most looking to address, in order of priority. Sagging? Hyperpigmentation? Dullness? Under-eye bags? I'd recommend trying out Buffet (which helps with a broad host of skin aging/texture issues), and absolutely Matrixyl (I believe it helps collagen formation, or something that makes the skin look plumper), and possibly Argireline (helps sagging). The Ordinary is a cheap way to do this. I'd also try a high-strength Vitamin C product or two (antioxidant that helps skin tone and dullness), and a retinoid (anti-aging, anti-wrinkle). So your routine might look something like this:
MORNING:
- Two drops of Buffet, spread over whole face
- Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate or another Vitamin C derivative
- Sunscreen (don't have good recommendation for a particular brand yet - I generally dislike the ones I've used, although Josie Maran's argan oil one is okay)
EVENING:
- Two drops of Matrixyl, spread over whole face
- Two drops of Argireline, spread over whole face
WAIT A BIT IF POSSIBLE
- Alternate Ascorbic Acid (any of The Ordinary's Ascorbic Acid products or the Maelove one - basically something that is at least 10% and ideally 20%) and Retin-A, every other night. You'd need to ease in slowly to those two, and the retinoid is prescription.
I think you'd see very noticeable results from these on the order of months, and definitely by 6 months to a year. With all due respect, a lot of the above answers about moisturizing etc. are probably from people with genetically good skin. If your skin isn't naturally good, you need to do things to get it to look good, as you know.
posted by ClaireBear at 6:38 AM on March 21, 2019 [14 favorites]
Hi! You are referring to my question :-D you would probably be happy with an “8 point facelift” that is non surgical and uses fillers. It might cost you about 1000 bucks? I’m probably going to go for a chemical peel in the end, I’m okay with a scab on my face for a week. But seriously- probably fillers would cheer you up a lot and hey can last 1-2 years before you would need to do it again. Also, do your makeup, maybe get a lesson. Make sure you whiten your teeth. All these things are important.
posted by catspajammies at 6:38 AM on March 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by catspajammies at 6:38 AM on March 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
Oh- and ulltherapy might be an option for sagginess... but I’m not there yet...
posted by catspajammies at 6:40 AM on March 21, 2019
posted by catspajammies at 6:40 AM on March 21, 2019
Whoops, other signs of aging are thinning eyebrows- for that you can do micro blading which is about 350 and thin lips and lipstick kind of not staying within the lips can be aging so I intend to do a permanent lip liner when I reach my 70’s
posted by catspajammies at 6:42 AM on March 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by catspajammies at 6:42 AM on March 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Seconding what was said above about the peels and lasers and a scab on your face for a week. If you're looking to significantly reverse existing signs of aging, that's the route I guess you have to go.
I'm more focused in my 40s with preventing future signs of aging, as well as making sure my skin has a texture and feel that I'm happy with.
If you're just looking to step up your routine without painful and expensive treatments, that's easy. When I talked to my dermatologist, she said you need four things - moisturizer, sunscreen, vitamin C, and retinol. So I'm using that approach, although I use several products to add moisture since my skin is naturally dry. The suggestion above about products from The Ordinary is a good place to start, because their stuff is inexpensive so you can easily try things and see what you like and don't like without spending a fortune.
posted by thejanna at 7:04 AM on March 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'm more focused in my 40s with preventing future signs of aging, as well as making sure my skin has a texture and feel that I'm happy with.
If you're just looking to step up your routine without painful and expensive treatments, that's easy. When I talked to my dermatologist, she said you need four things - moisturizer, sunscreen, vitamin C, and retinol. So I'm using that approach, although I use several products to add moisture since my skin is naturally dry. The suggestion above about products from The Ordinary is a good place to start, because their stuff is inexpensive so you can easily try things and see what you like and don't like without spending a fortune.
posted by thejanna at 7:04 AM on March 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
Personally, it's not the wrinkles I mind, it's the sagging. I've found that facial exercises deliver a subtle but noticeable improvement in a few weeks. It takes about 5 minutes' gurning per day (well, that's as much as I can stand). You have to stick at it, but on the plus side, you can do it in bed.
posted by Grunyon at 7:05 AM on March 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Grunyon at 7:05 AM on March 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
Retinoids! Get a prescription for tretinoin from a dermatologist, or sign up for Cureology to get a custom mix (usually tretinoin + azelaic acid and sometimes other stuff) created for you and delivered to you.
Here's a paper on the efficacy of retinoids. They are the gold standard for anti-aging and can actually reverse some age-related changes to skin. And here is another paper with a good summary of various anti-aging ingredients.
posted by aka burlap at 7:05 AM on March 21, 2019 [13 favorites]
Here's a paper on the efficacy of retinoids. They are the gold standard for anti-aging and can actually reverse some age-related changes to skin. And here is another paper with a good summary of various anti-aging ingredients.
posted by aka burlap at 7:05 AM on March 21, 2019 [13 favorites]
I'm in my early 40s (though I look younger) and do a lot of daily skincare type stuff, and let me tell you: it's *great* for dullness and fine wrinkles, and if you want to get into peels and stuff it can help with age spots, but it won't do shit about sagging. Outside of surgery or fillers there's not a whole lot you can do to, as you say, fight gravity.
If you can manage to fit even just a moisturizer into your daily routine and it has SPF, that could help a lot. As we get older our skin changes a lot, and what worked for us as teens and young adults won't necessarily be sufficient in middle age. I used to go to sleep in my makeup with no ill effects, but now I'm pretty strict about washing and moisturizing every night.
Personally I'm not into surgery/fillers, but I'm a lot more tolerant of the sagging under my chin and deepening nasolabial folds because at least my skin texture is soft and smooth.
posted by misskaz at 7:08 AM on March 21, 2019
If you can manage to fit even just a moisturizer into your daily routine and it has SPF, that could help a lot. As we get older our skin changes a lot, and what worked for us as teens and young adults won't necessarily be sufficient in middle age. I used to go to sleep in my makeup with no ill effects, but now I'm pretty strict about washing and moisturizing every night.
Personally I'm not into surgery/fillers, but I'm a lot more tolerant of the sagging under my chin and deepening nasolabial folds because at least my skin texture is soft and smooth.
posted by misskaz at 7:08 AM on March 21, 2019
The best way to deter ageing skin is to protect it from the sun. This should definitely be a part of your daily routine. There are a variety of drugstore sunscreens that will not break the bank, and if you like Neutrogena, they have several good facial lotions with varying SPF protection. Facial sunscreens are notable non-greasy.
As a woman close to you in age, I have been using Neutrogena's Rapid wrinkle reducer cream daily for several years. Retinols in over-the-counter formulations can be used every day, and although it's not cheap, a tube lasts more than a month and I stock up at the regular sales my drugstore chain offers. I think it's made a difference. I used a stronger formulation from my doctor for a while, but it was expensive and I couldn't discern much advantage.
Also, please consider seeing a dermatologist yearly for a body check for skin cancer. I'm fair and burn easily, and thus avoided the sun for most of my life, after a couple of terrible burns as a child. A few years ago my dermatologist discovered a squamous cell cancer on my collarbone, a place I would never have thought to routinely protect. He mentioned that for this reason the collarbone or upper chest is a very common place skin cancers occur in women. I know this wasn't in the scope of your original question, but I hope sharing my experience can be helpful.
posted by citygirl at 7:44 AM on March 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
As a woman close to you in age, I have been using Neutrogena's Rapid wrinkle reducer cream daily for several years. Retinols in over-the-counter formulations can be used every day, and although it's not cheap, a tube lasts more than a month and I stock up at the regular sales my drugstore chain offers. I think it's made a difference. I used a stronger formulation from my doctor for a while, but it was expensive and I couldn't discern much advantage.
Also, please consider seeing a dermatologist yearly for a body check for skin cancer. I'm fair and burn easily, and thus avoided the sun for most of my life, after a couple of terrible burns as a child. A few years ago my dermatologist discovered a squamous cell cancer on my collarbone, a place I would never have thought to routinely protect. He mentioned that for this reason the collarbone or upper chest is a very common place skin cancers occur in women. I know this wasn't in the scope of your original question, but I hope sharing my experience can be helpful.
posted by citygirl at 7:44 AM on March 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I am shocked it took so many comments for someone to mention retinoids.
Go to a derm - or contact curology - and get a prescription for Retin A.
Use sunscreen every single day.
Moisturize.
Love yourself!
posted by jessicattiva at 8:34 AM on March 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Go to a derm - or contact curology - and get a prescription for Retin A.
Use sunscreen every single day.
Moisturize.
Love yourself!
posted by jessicattiva at 8:34 AM on March 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Neutrogena is surprisingly harsh. Look into unscented glycerine soap. I'm not saying this will solve your problem, but it should help with drying and any irritation.
posted by amtho at 9:25 AM on March 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 9:25 AM on March 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
Hey, I am 64 and what works for me is fillers. I get Sculptra and some Botox. And I get spray tans. I would never admit this anywhere but here, but it really helps a lot. I just get the lightest spray tan, and I think it looks really natural.
posted by chocolatetiara at 9:31 AM on March 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by chocolatetiara at 9:31 AM on March 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
I had lash perming and tinting recently and it was AMAZING: less expensive than lash extensions, but it totally woke-up my face and because I didn't have to wear mascara, it makes my eyes look younger.
I've also tattooed my brows and my eyeliner (I wish I had done this a DECADE AGO). Since you're not into makeup, the brows and lashes can make a really nice and noticeable difference.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
I've also tattooed my brows and my eyeliner (I wish I had done this a DECADE AGO). Since you're not into makeup, the brows and lashes can make a really nice and noticeable difference.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
I've had great results with acids you use at home. It's not just the super acid peel with a scab face for a week option. With acids, start with weaker concentrations and then move up as your skin starts to tolerate it. Acid can brighten, improve texture and plumpness, improve the appearance of wrinkles, and can even skin tone and fade discolorations. Many people swear by Sunday Riley's "Good Genes", but while it's super effective, it's a bit pricey for me. I prefer to buy from Makeup Artist's Choice as they have a better variety, good guidance from staff if you contact them, and they have much better prices. I also love their retinol sleeping mask as its one of the only retinol products I can use that doesn't make my face irritated and raw feeling. I love their intensive moisturizers and serums, too.
You can also go into Sephora and get some samples of products. I'd absolutely try Good Genes via samples before taking the plunge. I also agree that the Neutrogena soap is way too harsh for my liking. I would try a more gentle cleanser like something from CeraVe (it's a drugstore brand) as their cleansers are way less harsh. SPF is a must.
posted by quince at 11:26 AM on March 21, 2019
You can also go into Sephora and get some samples of products. I'd absolutely try Good Genes via samples before taking the plunge. I also agree that the Neutrogena soap is way too harsh for my liking. I would try a more gentle cleanser like something from CeraVe (it's a drugstore brand) as their cleansers are way less harsh. SPF is a must.
posted by quince at 11:26 AM on March 21, 2019
Dermal fillers are the way to go (talk with your provider to determine which would be best) if you want to avoid surgery. Most places offer free consults. Depending on the amount of sagging, it may take quite a few vials to achieve results you are happy with. Look for specials, like buy 2 get 1 free etc. A small amount of Botox or Dysport around the crows feet also does wonders-however, keep in mind it usually lasts only 3-4 months. Depending on which filler is recommended, they can last anywhere from 1-2 years. Everyone is different in terms of how their body breaks down the hyaluronic acid. The same goes for neurotoxins (Botox/Dysport). I personally like Dysport better, but you have to determine that on your own. As for daily maintenance, I agree with the previous comments. Tretionin, sunscreen, and a good moisturizer. Neocutis makes awesome products that actually work, but they are pricey. If you use tretinoin, be sure to start with 0.25% and work your way up. It can really dry your skin out.
posted by bemysunshine at 2:05 PM on March 23, 2019
posted by bemysunshine at 2:05 PM on March 23, 2019
Nthing retinoids.
My approach was to look at what was proven to aid in skin ageing. Hence, vitamin A (retinoids), vitamin C in various forms; as well as acids (alpha-hydroxy and beta-hydroxy), and nicotinamide to start with.
The brand "The Ordinary" has many of these in affordable formats. I would also suggest looking at the subreddit r/skincareaddiction who have excellent introductory guides, also focussed on what substances have been investigated scientifically to help.
posted by rosiroo at 4:15 AM on April 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
My approach was to look at what was proven to aid in skin ageing. Hence, vitamin A (retinoids), vitamin C in various forms; as well as acids (alpha-hydroxy and beta-hydroxy), and nicotinamide to start with.
The brand "The Ordinary" has many of these in affordable formats. I would also suggest looking at the subreddit r/skincareaddiction who have excellent introductory guides, also focussed on what substances have been investigated scientifically to help.
posted by rosiroo at 4:15 AM on April 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
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Anything else will require surgery or fillers. I would personally recommend lessons from a really good makeup artist before considering any other deep or invasive procedures, though that may contravene your request for no lengthy/intricate daily routines.
posted by cilantro at 6:17 AM on March 21, 2019 [2 favorites]