Who the hell put that cable there?

February 23, 2006 7:16 AM

Does a utility company have the right to run a cable over my property to my neighbor's house?

Here's the scoop: A few days ago we noticed there was a new cable running from the utility pole in front of our house diagonally across our property to my neighbor's house. In total there is probably 100 feet of cable crossing our property in direct line of site between our windows and our lake view. Nobody asked permission to do this and we were never notified that it had occurred.

There's a number of reasons why we don't want it there, not only for esthetics, but for practical reasons, since our lot is sloped so the cable hangs low enough that if it was there last year our tree-cutter-downer-people wouldn't have been able to get their crane into the driveway.

We asked our neighbor and they told us the local cable TV company did it because the pole in front of their house "didn't have the proper hook-up." We don't want to be difficult neighbors but we'd like to have this cable moved so it doesn't cross our property. We don't blame the neighbors and we don't want them to be charged anything. We'd pay for it if we had to, but I think the cable company should do it on their own.

Before I call the cable company I'd like to know what my rights are in this situation. I know that you have no right to the airspace above your property, but where does the airspace begin? I live in Mass., if that matters.

posted by bondcliff to law & government (27 comments total)

This is so tangled up in local laws that no one could possibly give you an answer as to what your legal rights are.

Your best bet is to start calling the cable company and get them to "fix" it - to run the cable from the closest pole in front of the neighbor's house. They mostly use lowest-price bid contract installers, so they'll be familiar with an occasional shoddy job. Approach it from that angle, "you installed it wrongly", rather than "you violated my legal rights to blah-blah...".
posted by jellicle at 7:27 AM on February 23, 2006

I am guessing you have no rights whatsoever, those cables have to go over someone's property. Its one of those things you have to live with if you live on the grid.
posted by stormygrey at 7:31 AM on February 23, 2006

I'm not sure how much air space you own, but it's higher than the telephone pole that cable thingamajig is anchored on. However... I don't know what easements may be in place that allow for utilities to encroach on your air space.
posted by jerseygirl at 7:32 AM on February 23, 2006

I wouldn't bother with the legal rights analysis before you just call the cable company and complain. Cable companies are beholden to municipal governments -- your city or town government gives the cable co. permission to operate. Tell them that you are going to complain to the city/town. This should get them moving.

Your city/town government should have an office that supervises the cable company -- you can register your complaint there. If you have a local alderman or something similar, that would be a good place to complain also.

Treat this as a political problem, not a legal one. Utility companies do have rights to use easements over private property, so they may be within their rights to use your land. I don't know for sure, but I think you're less likely to get this resolved quickly on the legal side versus the political side.
posted by Mid at 7:33 AM on February 23, 2006

Do you own your property or are you renting? Here in Oregon, anyway, various entitites have easements, or rights, to your land. For example, the electric company has an easement on the northernmost five feet of our property. They can just come in at any time and tear up the yard to lay new lines. These easements (at least here in Oregon) are always spelled out in the contract signed when a house is purchased. Perhaps you already know this, or perhaps things work different on the other side of the country, but you may want to check this out if the situation applies to you.
posted by jdroth at 7:35 AM on February 23, 2006

Wait, I just want to get this clear, you cut down all the trees on a slope down to a lake for a view and now you are worried about a 3/8 inch diameter wire?

Get a bird feeder. Let the birds use the wire for a roost.

You have no rights. Cable is considered a utility.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:43 AM on February 23, 2006

Mid has good advice, but I would go one further--I'd complain to your local representative first, and get him or her to complain to the cable company.

As for the easement question, its a tough one. Problem is that an easment is a taking. There's actually a famous case on this one called Loretto v. Teleprompter Manhattan CATV Corp 458 U.S. 419 (1982). The Supreme Court ruled that a state law requiring landlords to set aside a tiny section of the walls for a Cable TV line was a taking, which isn't allowed without just compensation. So your municipality may not have the right to grant an easement over your land after all (and may not have done so). But the political is the way to go, because you aren't going to spend $10,000 to sue the cable company and the city.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:44 AM on February 23, 2006

Some clarifications:

We own the property.

There is another pole directly in front of the neighbor's house.

The neighbor is on a large corner lot, so there are at least three poles adjacent to his property. The cable TV cable runs along the edge of his property.

Cable TV is not an essential utility. I could almost understand if it were electrical cable.

My roof is much higher than the cable is.

There are no easements or rights-of-way on my deed and this is a new cable, so there wouldn't be any automatic rights of way due to it having been there for a certain number of years.
posted by bondcliff at 7:47 AM on February 23, 2006

Wait, I just want to get this clear, you cut down all the trees on a slope down to a lake for a view and now you are worried about a 3/8 inch diameter wire?

Where did i say I cut down trees to clear the view? Or did you just scan my post briefly enough to find a reason to be a dick?

The trees we cut down were in my back yard, which is why the crane would need to get past the cable.
posted by bondcliff at 7:52 AM on February 23, 2006

Is it possible that the cable is to be buried once the ground thaws? This may be a temporary situation, but you won't know until you call the cable company. In my experience however, you can antipicate being transferred hither and yon among departments within the cable company itself, as well as among their various sub-contractors and sub-sub-contractors.

Actually, your neighbor might know if the cable is going to be buried at a later date, because they will probably have to arrange to call the Sub-Sub-Sub-Contractor in Charge of Burying Things once the ground thaws.

And if you make a big enough stink, they (the cable company) may bury the cable just to get you off their back. Of course, burying the cable brings up a whole 'nother set of problems...
posted by SuperSquirrel at 8:08 AM on February 23, 2006

When I lived in a more ghetto arrangement, there was a similar disagreement about hanging cables. The neighbor who objected would use a rake to pull down the cable and the neighbors who had the cable running to their apartment would complain about their lack of service. This was repeated four or five times until the cable company ran the cable around outside of the residence and along the fence line, out of reach. I believe that the objector just blaimed phantom "kids" for the mischief.

While I'd recommend going about your problem by first calling the cable company, then city council, I just thought I'd mention that if you're sufficiently motivated and there's little proof of personal responsibility, that less-than-honorable methods have worked in my experience (though I was neither the party who objected nor the party who had ordered the cable, I did benefit by virtue of free cable once the line was rerouted, likely through some wiring fluke).
posted by klangklangston at 8:18 AM on February 23, 2006

Just because there are other utility poles does not mean that they are poles for the cable company's use. Typically the cable company owns no poles but leases them from either the telephone company or power company.
posted by JJ86 at 8:39 AM on February 23, 2006

Few things:

The owners of utility poles cannot just bar a cable company from using the pole for interconnects; they can charge the cable companies a reasonable rate, but there are very specific (federal) rules that prohibit the utilities from barring a cable company from using a utility pole under most circumstances. (Here's a good primer, in PDF form.)

State law controls easements and rights-of-way for cable running from poles, but importantly, the cable company does not inherit the easements or rights-of-way possessed by the utility which owns the pole. So the cable company can't claim the same right to an easement as a power company; it has to be explicitly spelled out in an easement or deed that the cable company has a right to that easement or right-of-way, and if someone digs up some easement that would allow a power line to cross that portion of your property, that doesn't mean that the cable line has the same right. (This is also mentioned in that same primer.)

NStar, one of the big electrical utilities here in Massachusetts, even addresses this issue in their FAQ, clearly stating that if a customer's power line is going to cross a third party's property, they need proof of an easement from that third party before they will even put the line in.

There's pretty much no doubt that you have the right to have the line moved, and that you should not have to pay a cent for it to occur; I agree with everyone else, though, that you should contact the cable company first and your municipal government's ombudsman (or other representative in charge of overseeing the cable company's contract) second, telling both that you object to the line crossing your property and that you expect it to be fixed.

Please keep us up-to-date on what happens -- this is pretty interesting to me!
posted by delfuego at 9:02 AM on February 23, 2006

You would have to be living in a pretty fucked-up jurisdiction for this to be completely kosher with the local officials such that there's "nothing you can do". Seriously, the cable company, or any other utility--including municipal utilities like water, sewer and stormwater lines--most likely have no rights to run anything across your property unless they have an easement across your property, no exceptions. Your title report for your property should list all easements on the land, and records of easements on your property in drawing form may be able to be found at your local buliding or planning department.

But things like this:
I am guessing you have no rights whatsoever, those cables have to go over someone's property. Its one of those things you have to live with if you live on the grid.
are complete bullshit.
posted by LionIndex at 9:16 AM on February 23, 2006

A caveat to delfuego's post: I think in some areas there might be a city-wide statutory easement for utilities. I think this is the case in Chicago. But I read this a long time ago, so I could be wrong.

But think about it: in a major city, you're going to have hundreds of thousands of power and phone cables going across back yards. Many split off and go to neighboring properties. I know from experience that there is no easement recorded on deeds for this sort of thing, at least in Chicago.
posted by Mid at 9:22 AM on February 23, 2006

But think about it: in a major city, you're going to have hundreds of thousands of power and phone cables going across back yards. Many split off and go to neighboring properties. I know from experience that there is no easement recorded on deeds for this sort of thing, at least in Chicago.

In many cases, there is just a situation that's "grandfathered" in. For instance, one friend of mine has her main sewer line that her house connects to roughly a block away, meaning that her sewer lateral goes under other people's houses before it hits the city sewer (the neighborhood was built in the '20s). Obviously, this is a huge problem if her line degrades and needs to be replaced, or she gets a backup, or the pipe just plain blows. What are the neighbors supposed to do if they have their someone else's sewage going nuts under their property?

Ideally, all utilities will have trunk lines running in the City's right of way or some other general easement, with branch lines going off to individual properties, which I believe is what's going on with the situation you're referring to in Chicago. Going across back yards in general isn't a problem, as long as the services to your house don't cross someone else's property. Anything else is just a clusterfuck waiting to happen. What if bondcliff wants to expand or relocate his house to the location occupied by the cable line? Is he limited in what he can do on his own property because of how the cable company installed a line? Surely not.
posted by LionIndex at 10:42 AM on February 23, 2006

Utility easement, access easement, sight easement and drainage easement are all various types of easement, not all of which are listed on deeds and deeds will be different from location to location. Cable indeed falls under the category of utility, whether you prefer to think of it as essential or not.

There may be several types of easements on your property that are not listed. For instance, you mentioned that it slopes, water drainage could be perfectly kosher even though your neighbors don't have an easement listed on your deed. You mentioned a lake, neighbors could have sight easements. Additionally the lake itself could pose easement issues with boaters, swimmers and fisherfolk, none of which may appear on your deed. These things could be in local or state statutes and regulations and wouldn't be contained in your personal property deed.

Where did i say I cut down trees to clear the view? Or did you just scan my post briefly enough to find a reason to be a dick?

The trees we cut down were in my back yard, which is why the crane would need to get past the cable.

I asked because I wanted to get things clear, your initial question did not make it clear. If you have cut down trees on a sloping lot, you have far more to worry about than cable wires.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:54 AM on February 23, 2006

If this was the standard route for a cable drop (the wire from pole to house), then the cable company would likely have an easement and you'd be SOL.

Since this cable does seem to have a non-standard route, there may very well not be an easement.

What likely happened: the equipment on the pole nearest the customer's house was bad or unavailable. The proper thing to do was to flag the job as unworkable and get the pole upgraded. The thing the cable company most likely tells their install techs to do is this: do whatever the bleep it takes to get the service up, or we'll ding you. If the cable company is anything like the phone company, shit rolls down hill and it all lands on the install techs.

Getting this fixed? Very challenging. Large, bureaucratic organizitions like the cable company are hard to get moving. The unethical way to get things rolling would be to accidentally knock the cable off of the pole with a ladder or truck.

But hopefully a call to the cable company will get you lucky.
posted by teece at 11:00 AM on February 23, 2006

Yes, yes, yes. Bitch as loud and as often as you can to the cable company, especially if you're their customer, but even if not as they operate under a government franchise. If that doesn't work, take it to City Hall and be a pest until it's taken care of.

As far as utility easements, IANAL but aren't those usually the first X feet or so from the street and maybe from the property line? I find it hard to believe that an easement would have been granted to string any type of anything in any spot on the property that the utility wanted. As said above, it interferes with the owner's right to expand his house or whatever.

As far as airspace, the Straight Dope says that common law once gave you ownership of your property into space infinitely. Now, at least in North America, it seems that "you've got air rights only insofar as they're essential to the use and enjoyment of your land." Given that the cable impairs any future tree trucks, and the poster is clearly not enjoying it being there... I think he can tell 'em to get the hell off.

Also, wouldn't klangklangston's neighbor have been within his rights to take down the cable, as it was trespassing on his property? It's like the old man who keeps the kids' football, right?
posted by SuperNova at 11:29 AM on February 23, 2006

Definitely call the cable company first and try to get them to move it without charge. Also give them a deadline to deal with the problem before you call your building/zoning/planning department to report a code violation for encroachment into your property, which will most likely result in them being force to remove the cable anyway, and a possible fine.
posted by LionIndex at 11:43 AM on February 23, 2006

Aerial trespassing is not typically an acceptable way for any aerial cable/phone/etc utility to be run. Your electric provider is generally the exception to that rule.

The installer should have run the drop from the tap location, to a point on the actual cable span that is on the neighbors property and then from there to the house. That being said, it obviously takes more time to do, so more often than not, installers/contractors do not go the extra mile as they just want to get in and get out. Call the cable company and explain. If you are a subscriber, they should entertain your request quickly, if not, it may take a little effort to persuade them. Either way, you should be able to solve your problem without causing an issue with your neighbor.
posted by alightfoot at 11:55 AM on February 23, 2006

At the very least, they should have buried it. The cable company has special machines to do just that but I'm sure out of sheer convenience, they just dropped it and said "deal with it." Generally speaking, the utility easement is 3' on each side of the property line (here in Illinois) which includes front, sides and rear. For ComEd, our electric company in Ilinois, they considered the buried line itself, an an easement and technically within their jurisidiction. As a utility locator, I used to have to deal with these disputes on a daily basis. The cable companies would always respond by burying the cable (1st choice) or re-routing it (last choice).

Complain until it's fixed.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 12:12 PM on February 23, 2006

Idea: Call the local "call before you dig" number and tell them you plan to install a TV tower and an incorrectly installed cable line must be cut and removed. Let the guys on that number deal with the cable co, since they cable co will actually listen to them. The last thing they want is for you to cut their cable to install a TV tower...
posted by shepd at 12:41 PM on February 23, 2006

You have no rights. Cable is considered a utility.

That dosn't mean he has no rights. Just that he may not (or may) have absolute rights.

Anyway, I'd call the city, depending on how big your town is.
posted by delmoi at 12:48 PM on February 23, 2006

klangklangston writes "When I lived in a more ghetto arrangement, there was a similar disagreement about hanging cables. The neighbor who objected would use a rake to pull down the cable and the neighbors who had the cable running to their apartment would complain about their lack of service. This was repeated four or five times until the cable company ran the cable around outside of the residence and along the fence line, out of reach. I believe that the objector just blaimed phantom 'kids' for the mischief."

As a last resort this can be amazingly effective. My parents had a pole on the corner of their property with telephone, cable, hydro, city street light, and CP/CN telegraph lines hung off of it. My parents wanted to get an electrical drop off the pole to an outbuilding and Hydro said they needed to get permission from the pole owner. However none of the five users wanted to admit ownership till my father threatened to cut the pole down. We had power the next week.
posted by Mitheral at 4:46 PM on February 23, 2006

Just a quick mention that nobody has brought up. If there are trees nearby the line and you have previously paid to have them trimmed, you might want to let the cable company know that if the line isn't removed, they will have to trim those trees for you, and give them a copy of the bill you paid for the trees trimmed.

I like the idea of the TV Tower, but you might want to replace it with a tree or something else. Let them know that you are replanting or doing general yard work that requires digging, and let them know the spot. If they say it's safe, ask them what to do about the cable running from the pole to your neighbors house across the middle of your yard?

Surely if you mention to them, or the cable company, that you may be bringing in a tall backhoe or some other large machinary that may tear down their line, then they'll take care of it properly. I'm sure if you did this to your own cable line running to your house, they'd charge you (or the construction company) the cost to fix it. But they can't charge you the cost to fix your neighbor's cable line. You didn't pay for that, and you arn't responsible for other people's property in your space. And if it's lower then your house, it is indeed inside your property boundry, and will definatly get messed up by trees or medium sized machinary.

Make sure to say you are thinking about doing this, or you are planning on doing these things, so if they come out and move it, and then drive by weeks later, you could just say plans changed, money became an issue, or best yet, the wife changed her mind and ruined your plans. True or not, the male dominated cable installer sector will understand and chuckle about it.
posted by Phynix at 5:27 PM on February 23, 2006

Personally, I would go out at 5 in the morning with a tree pruner and clip the thing in several places.

but I'm also the guy who ran over the neighbors cable with a lawnmower (chop chop chop) when they installed it from the cable box in my yard, and rather than bury it the cable company just left it on top of my grass. I was quite angry and just tied of the safety hande on the self propelled mower and let it go like pacman (wakka wakka wakka wakka)
posted by Megafly at 6:55 PM on February 23, 2006