Do I just need thicker skin?
December 6, 2018 1:02 PM Subscribe
I just demo’d a work in progress to professional colleagues. The objective was to get feedback and make changes as required. I got lots of feedback! The problem is I felt like I’d been beaten up afterward. I have 3 interrelated questions: How do I take it less personally? How do I focus on the constructive criticism? Can I broach the problem with a colleague?
—I think part of the problem is that the medium I work in is different than the medium my colleagues work in, and so not everyone has a lot of language to articulate what changes they’d like to see, or what specific parts of a design they dislike, so sometimes all they can say is “needs work”, “I don’t like it” or something similar. There were also some useful suggestions, but I find myself dwelling on the low-information comments.
One colleague’s feedback in particular I was hurt by because it was not at all constructive and didn’t even give me a hint about what she disliked. “i liked when it stopped” (it was music). She also made other asides that felt similarly cutting and unhelpful. I really don’t think it’s an interpersonal thing. We get along and work together closely on many things, but this has happened with her before in scenarios where I’m showing something and it leaves me embarrassed, frustrated and hurt. She’s great at her work, and opinionated about design, which is a good thing.
Another part of the problem is that I really care about what I’m doing. I’m emotionally invested, which is also usually a good thing but makes it hard for me not to take critique personally.
Our small studio is structured pretty non-hierarchically and has a casual but hard-working atmosphere. There's the founder, and then the rest of us, and even the founder is very approachable and doesn't give orders. So all of this is from peers.
again, my questions:
What are some strategies for separating the signal from the noise when I’m getting feedback?
How do I take it less personally?
Should I broach the subject with this one colleague in particular? If so, how do I do it in a professional manner?
—I think part of the problem is that the medium I work in is different than the medium my colleagues work in, and so not everyone has a lot of language to articulate what changes they’d like to see, or what specific parts of a design they dislike, so sometimes all they can say is “needs work”, “I don’t like it” or something similar. There were also some useful suggestions, but I find myself dwelling on the low-information comments.
One colleague’s feedback in particular I was hurt by because it was not at all constructive and didn’t even give me a hint about what she disliked. “i liked when it stopped” (it was music). She also made other asides that felt similarly cutting and unhelpful. I really don’t think it’s an interpersonal thing. We get along and work together closely on many things, but this has happened with her before in scenarios where I’m showing something and it leaves me embarrassed, frustrated and hurt. She’s great at her work, and opinionated about design, which is a good thing.
Another part of the problem is that I really care about what I’m doing. I’m emotionally invested, which is also usually a good thing but makes it hard for me not to take critique personally.
Our small studio is structured pretty non-hierarchically and has a casual but hard-working atmosphere. There's the founder, and then the rest of us, and even the founder is very approachable and doesn't give orders. So all of this is from peers.
again, my questions:
What are some strategies for separating the signal from the noise when I’m getting feedback?
How do I take it less personally?
Should I broach the subject with this one colleague in particular? If so, how do I do it in a professional manner?
Yeah, I am a layman in all kinds of artistic endeavors, and the idea of someone asking me for feedback on music sends me into cold sweats. All I could tell you is whether I liked it or not.
"I liked when it stopped" is a horribly rude way to say this--does she give other people feedback on other work in such a mean way?
I agree that giving people the tools to be constructive--guidance on language to use, talking them through what you are trying to do with the piece so they can tell you if it succeeds (like, I want it to feel mellow with a sense of hopefulness, and then to build with a sense of energy so at the end you just want to get up and dance.)
You can also try explaining after they listen (or maybe between two listens) how you get your effect, so they can have words to say what they liked and disliked (like, maybe you describe the progression so they can have words for the parts). I'd probably do that part after they give initial feedback.
I'm mostly thinking based on my experience with visual design, where I can say "it's boring" or "it seems silly" but might not be able to tell you why it has that effect on me. But if someone talks me through "we want your eye to go here and to emphasize this, and we used these colors for a sense of fun," I might be able to tell you that the colors go past fun into silly and the icon that's supposed to catch your attention feels overwhelming or whatever.
posted by gideonfrog at 1:20 PM on December 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
"I liked when it stopped" is a horribly rude way to say this--does she give other people feedback on other work in such a mean way?
I agree that giving people the tools to be constructive--guidance on language to use, talking them through what you are trying to do with the piece so they can tell you if it succeeds (like, I want it to feel mellow with a sense of hopefulness, and then to build with a sense of energy so at the end you just want to get up and dance.)
You can also try explaining after they listen (or maybe between two listens) how you get your effect, so they can have words to say what they liked and disliked (like, maybe you describe the progression so they can have words for the parts). I'd probably do that part after they give initial feedback.
I'm mostly thinking based on my experience with visual design, where I can say "it's boring" or "it seems silly" but might not be able to tell you why it has that effect on me. But if someone talks me through "we want your eye to go here and to emphasize this, and we used these colors for a sense of fun," I might be able to tell you that the colors go past fun into silly and the icon that's supposed to catch your attention feels overwhelming or whatever.
posted by gideonfrog at 1:20 PM on December 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
One suggestion is to note everything down and come back to the feedback later. Think first about whose opinion matters and then whose opinion you most value. Take their criticism on board first. Then see if there is any value in the other feedback.
You might want to talk all the feedback through with someone you trust (a peer or the founder?). Not all of it will do value or take your work forward. A third party might be better able to help you sort the wheat from the chaff.
posted by plonkee at 1:36 PM on December 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
You might want to talk all the feedback through with someone you trust (a peer or the founder?). Not all of it will do value or take your work forward. A third party might be better able to help you sort the wheat from the chaff.
posted by plonkee at 1:36 PM on December 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If you can, try telling your reviewers, ahead of time, what information you are hoping to hear from them. Here's what I mean:
In her writing classes, Mary Robinette Kowal pretty severely constrains the feedback that students can give to their classmates. Basically you are allowed to say four things:
A - this section is awesome to me
B - this section is boring to me
C - this section confuses me
D - this section is making it hard to suspend my disbelief.
If they absolutely have to, they can explain why they feel one of these ways about the section that they've assigned this feedback to, but that is not necessary and is not encouraged.
The idea being that these are, broadly speaking, the four pieces of information that an author needs to know from their initial readers. Your four pieces of feedback might be different than these, and there is nothing magical about the number four of them.
Asking reviewers to stay to set categories of remarks like this might help them to understand what you are asking them for. It also means that when they say things that aren't helpful or indeed are hurtful to you, you can feel like they are wrong because they didn't follow the instructions. And if you find that a particular reviewer consistently is not able to keep their critique within the parameters that you set, consider whether they are really a good reviewer.
And, I side with the commenters above who have said that "I liked when it was over" is a pretty rude comment masquerading as feedback.
posted by gauche at 1:41 PM on December 6, 2018 [12 favorites]
In her writing classes, Mary Robinette Kowal pretty severely constrains the feedback that students can give to their classmates. Basically you are allowed to say four things:
A - this section is awesome to me
B - this section is boring to me
C - this section confuses me
D - this section is making it hard to suspend my disbelief.
If they absolutely have to, they can explain why they feel one of these ways about the section that they've assigned this feedback to, but that is not necessary and is not encouraged.
The idea being that these are, broadly speaking, the four pieces of information that an author needs to know from their initial readers. Your four pieces of feedback might be different than these, and there is nothing magical about the number four of them.
Asking reviewers to stay to set categories of remarks like this might help them to understand what you are asking them for. It also means that when they say things that aren't helpful or indeed are hurtful to you, you can feel like they are wrong because they didn't follow the instructions. And if you find that a particular reviewer consistently is not able to keep their critique within the parameters that you set, consider whether they are really a good reviewer.
And, I side with the commenters above who have said that "I liked when it was over" is a pretty rude comment masquerading as feedback.
posted by gauche at 1:41 PM on December 6, 2018 [12 favorites]
"OK, co-worker, I need more helpful information, though--what did you think about the music exactly?"
"OK, co-worker, it needs work on which part?"
"OK, co-worker, you didn't like which part and why again?"
"Thanks for the initial feedback, I would like to hear more about your reaction to the music. Let's chat in the afternoon."
"After chatting with a few of you about the colors used, we're trying a new set. I'd love to hear your feedback on it."
posted by calgirl at 2:01 PM on December 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
"OK, co-worker, it needs work on which part?"
"OK, co-worker, you didn't like which part and why again?"
"Thanks for the initial feedback, I would like to hear more about your reaction to the music. Let's chat in the afternoon."
"After chatting with a few of you about the colors used, we're trying a new set. I'd love to hear your feedback on it."
posted by calgirl at 2:01 PM on December 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
I agree that your colleagues were rude to you. Some of it sounds like just not having useful feedback to give and therefore giving useless feedback rather than just admitting that they can't help you, but "I liked when it stopped" is just rude. It's something that I might say jokingly to someone with whom I was very familiar, but not to a coworker who was looking for real feedback.
You can learn to just let it roll off your back though. Rather than taking it as legitimate criticism, you can re-frame it as just unhelpful and rude. It's not your work that sucks (although better feedback might have identified legitimate areas for improvement) it's their feedback that sucks. Don't be hurt, be irritated—and then take a deep breath and let it go. Don't ask those colleagues for feedback again in this subject area, because they're not going to help you. And don't ask the rude one for feedback at all.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:04 PM on December 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
You can learn to just let it roll off your back though. Rather than taking it as legitimate criticism, you can re-frame it as just unhelpful and rude. It's not your work that sucks (although better feedback might have identified legitimate areas for improvement) it's their feedback that sucks. Don't be hurt, be irritated—and then take a deep breath and let it go. Don't ask those colleagues for feedback again in this subject area, because they're not going to help you. And don't ask the rude one for feedback at all.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:04 PM on December 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
Your colleague having an opinion about design counts for absolutely nothing if she can't articulate it. Everyone has an opinion, big deal, that doesn't mean that theirs matters. You're not after a "this sucks" or " I love it" you want constructive criticism - I don't think that brown and purple work together, that font is clashing with the background, I'm not sure what message we're trying to get across...can we make xxx clearer.
Just like there is an art to creative endeavours, there is also an art to delivering feedback that supports the work while helping carry it forward and improve it - all without crushing the artist behind it. If these people aren't capable of doing this, then you have my permission to ignore it, and indeed you must, because to give it any weight is to allow it to get in the way of the work, which is the exact opposite of what you want.
And remember, anyone can criticise - not everyone can create.
posted by Jubey at 2:49 PM on December 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
Just like there is an art to creative endeavours, there is also an art to delivering feedback that supports the work while helping carry it forward and improve it - all without crushing the artist behind it. If these people aren't capable of doing this, then you have my permission to ignore it, and indeed you must, because to give it any weight is to allow it to get in the way of the work, which is the exact opposite of what you want.
And remember, anyone can criticise - not everyone can create.
posted by Jubey at 2:49 PM on December 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
Can you set up feedback sessions so that they have some structure, which everyone is informed of in advance, rather than just being a free-for-all? Things I've seen done in theatre when audiences give feedback on works in progress include:
Method one
* The maker poses some specific written questions to be given to the audience - eg. What do you think the most important theme of this work was? How does the characters' relationship come across? How do you think it changes through the course of the scene?
* The audience write their answers to these questions and they're handed in.
* A third person - not the maker - sifts through them and removes any that are completely unconstructive ("I liked it when it stopped") and passes the rest to the maker.
Method two
* After the work, the maker sits on the stage with a chairperson, who mediates the discussion.
* Audience members raise a hand to show they want to give some feedback, and when the chair calls on them, can at first only say what it is they want to give feedback on, in a particular format: "I have some feedback on the volume of the music, would you like to hear it?"
* The maker can say yes or no (which lets you decide whether this is something you can or want to make changes to at this moment, as well as deciding whether you want to hear feedback from a particular individual).
* If the maker says yes, the audience member gives feedback. The chair can question/prompt the audience member to try and make the feedback as specific and useful as possible. The maker listens, and then just says "Thank you" (this is good at encouraging you to listen, because you're not sitting there thinking up what you want to say back to them in your defence.)
* If the maker says "No, thank you," the chairperson moves the discussion on and asks the audience who else would like to give feedback.
I feel like the second one of these at least has a specific name, but my google-fu is failing me. But you can maybe at least research structured feedback ideas specific to your medium.
posted by penguin pie at 3:10 PM on December 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Method one
* The maker poses some specific written questions to be given to the audience - eg. What do you think the most important theme of this work was? How does the characters' relationship come across? How do you think it changes through the course of the scene?
* The audience write their answers to these questions and they're handed in.
* A third person - not the maker - sifts through them and removes any that are completely unconstructive ("I liked it when it stopped") and passes the rest to the maker.
Method two
* After the work, the maker sits on the stage with a chairperson, who mediates the discussion.
* Audience members raise a hand to show they want to give some feedback, and when the chair calls on them, can at first only say what it is they want to give feedback on, in a particular format: "I have some feedback on the volume of the music, would you like to hear it?"
* The maker can say yes or no (which lets you decide whether this is something you can or want to make changes to at this moment, as well as deciding whether you want to hear feedback from a particular individual).
* If the maker says yes, the audience member gives feedback. The chair can question/prompt the audience member to try and make the feedback as specific and useful as possible. The maker listens, and then just says "Thank you" (this is good at encouraging you to listen, because you're not sitting there thinking up what you want to say back to them in your defence.)
* If the maker says "No, thank you," the chairperson moves the discussion on and asks the audience who else would like to give feedback.
I feel like the second one of these at least has a specific name, but my google-fu is failing me. But you can maybe at least research structured feedback ideas specific to your medium.
posted by penguin pie at 3:10 PM on December 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
As noted above, the best way to get the feedback you want is to set up the framework in which you want to get it. It can help just to have specific formalities around the session. "I would like to take an hour to get some feedback regarding piece X-- I'm collecting the feedback in the following quadrants." If people understand this is a constructive and formal session, they're probably less likely to throw out one liners in an effort to be funny or to move on to something else.
Be aware, however, that you can't strictly control the way people react. I've seen people set up feedback frameworks who then get very angry because people don't want to follow the structure or the form. To offer some frustratingly general advice-- a feedback framework or some kind will help you to get specific feedback, but if you use it to protect yourself and cover your vulnerability, that will be obvious and probably not really help you.
Brene Brown does some pretty good work about vulnerability, rumbling and group feedback and you might want to check that out. I find often that when I'm feeling thin skinned it is because I feel some unwarranted shame about what I'm presenting rather than healthy vulnerability. Feedback makes your work stronger, in the end, and learning how to take it and accept it without feeling shame is a really really useful skill. If people pick up that you're taking remarks personally then they probably won't trust you with very good feedback. Sometimes if I'm getting feedback which really hurts me and I can't react neutrally, I actually say that. "Sorry, I'm you may notice I'm having a strong reaction to that-- I'm not sure why but I'd like some time to think about it before we continue the conversation. Can we pick this up in three days?"
Regarding the unhelpful coworker-- if it were me, I would address it in the moment and pick up her remark: "You like it when it stops? Can you hang in there with that for a moment? Is there something which really repels you or is it too noisy so the silence is contrast? It's such a strong reaction I would really like to understand it." Some people are really genuinely bad at feedback and if you don't mind doing the emotional work to help them dig, they may be trainable to start giving feedback which is helpful. You mention you like her in other contexts, so it may be worth the effort.
If they continue to do drive-by sniping and you would like to address it, I would suggest something like the following: "Hey Griselda, can we talk for a moment about the feedback session last week? I really like working with you, so it's especially frustrating for me when you give me feedback like: "I like it when it stops." I can't do much with that, and it makes me wonder if you think I'm really bad at my job. Am I reading this the wrong way?" I do honestly believe you are better off addressing it in the moment but if you like/trust her then this may work.
posted by frumiousb at 3:25 PM on December 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
Be aware, however, that you can't strictly control the way people react. I've seen people set up feedback frameworks who then get very angry because people don't want to follow the structure or the form. To offer some frustratingly general advice-- a feedback framework or some kind will help you to get specific feedback, but if you use it to protect yourself and cover your vulnerability, that will be obvious and probably not really help you.
Brene Brown does some pretty good work about vulnerability, rumbling and group feedback and you might want to check that out. I find often that when I'm feeling thin skinned it is because I feel some unwarranted shame about what I'm presenting rather than healthy vulnerability. Feedback makes your work stronger, in the end, and learning how to take it and accept it without feeling shame is a really really useful skill. If people pick up that you're taking remarks personally then they probably won't trust you with very good feedback. Sometimes if I'm getting feedback which really hurts me and I can't react neutrally, I actually say that. "Sorry, I'm you may notice I'm having a strong reaction to that-- I'm not sure why but I'd like some time to think about it before we continue the conversation. Can we pick this up in three days?"
Regarding the unhelpful coworker-- if it were me, I would address it in the moment and pick up her remark: "You like it when it stops? Can you hang in there with that for a moment? Is there something which really repels you or is it too noisy so the silence is contrast? It's such a strong reaction I would really like to understand it." Some people are really genuinely bad at feedback and if you don't mind doing the emotional work to help them dig, they may be trainable to start giving feedback which is helpful. You mention you like her in other contexts, so it may be worth the effort.
If they continue to do drive-by sniping and you would like to address it, I would suggest something like the following: "Hey Griselda, can we talk for a moment about the feedback session last week? I really like working with you, so it's especially frustrating for me when you give me feedback like: "I like it when it stops." I can't do much with that, and it makes me wonder if you think I'm really bad at my job. Am I reading this the wrong way?" I do honestly believe you are better off addressing it in the moment but if you like/trust her then this may work.
posted by frumiousb at 3:25 PM on December 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is a tough position - it’s hard to measure the hard-to-quantify. I do, however, want to nth the issue of specificity mentioned several times above. To wit:
posted by mce at 3:59 PM on December 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
- ensure that you’ve prepared your audience for watch for the parts you want feedback on
- prime the pump with specific questions when asking for feedback
- hold your peers to a reasonable level of professionalism - it’s very much ok to respond with “that’s not the question I asked - would you like to take that offline?”
- you have had lots of time to invest and contemplate and create. Don’t be too attached to off-the-cuff professional feedback; your peers may also require time to mull and consider. Gut reactions are generally most useful at the beginning and finishing stages of work - as a band pass filter culling bad ideas early and a confirmation of completeness. Other than that if you you’re looking for rational well reason and feedback don’t ask someone’s gut.
- this is (presumably) work-for-hire. At some point it will be integrated into the work of others. This work isn’t you and you are not it. Everyone who will build on it, though, should treat it with level of respect-of-ownership. It is ok to ask for that; it’s easier to get it if it’s presented that way.
- if any of this is impossible to manage the root causes might be you - but it might also be a peer who can’t work in good faith or a workplace culture that needs improving. You can control/grow/develop the first one but the last two require some leadership and management to tend the garden. Do take responsibility for you; don’t take responsibility for other adults - it doesn’t belong to you.
posted by mce at 3:59 PM on December 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
“i liked when it stopped”
Just to clarify -- there's no chance she meant "I really liked the artistic decision you made about when to end the piece?"
(If not, yeah, that sort of snark is super out-of-line, and you would be completely justified in telling her "That was unhelpful and hurtful.")
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:02 PM on December 6, 2018
Just to clarify -- there's no chance she meant "I really liked the artistic decision you made about when to end the piece?"
(If not, yeah, that sort of snark is super out-of-line, and you would be completely justified in telling her "That was unhelpful and hurtful.")
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:02 PM on December 6, 2018
Maybe it's because of a book I'm currently reading, but you might want to separate your goals from your process. Your goal (maybe) is to create a work that expresses something important and that is accepted by the audience you are targeting. Many people share similar goals, but probably have different processes. Your process includes but is not limited to soliciting input and reactions from others. You need to manage that process like the others which contribute to the end result. Granted, we are social creatures and at times it will be hard to put this theory into practice.
posted by forthright at 4:26 PM on December 6, 2018
posted by forthright at 4:26 PM on December 6, 2018
Consider - what does this particular thing you are working need to do to be successful? Then consider the feedback in that light. If you are creating an ice scraper that just needs to get ice off the car to be successful as an ice scraper, toss out any remarks about its color, lack of flashy lights, lack of interactive features, boring shape, etc.
Of the relevant feedback, decide what's actionable. Consider whether it's worth going back to specific colleagues to say "Jim you said this page was too hard to read. Can you help me understand - is it the font, the background color, glare on the screen?"
Next time ask your coworkers specific questions about the elements your project needs to succeed: Does it get the ice off the windshield? Is it easy to lift? Is it easy to grip even with gloves?
Some people feel like they have to say *something* when asked for feedback or look foolish. Giving them some guidance on how to be helpful should ... ahem ... help.
I got snarky with someone at work a while back because I was overwhelmed and also I thought - foolishly - that I was successfully using humor to express myself. They let me know how they felt and ever since I've been a lot more thoughtful about how I give feedback to them.
posted by bunderful at 4:30 PM on December 6, 2018
Of the relevant feedback, decide what's actionable. Consider whether it's worth going back to specific colleagues to say "Jim you said this page was too hard to read. Can you help me understand - is it the font, the background color, glare on the screen?"
Next time ask your coworkers specific questions about the elements your project needs to succeed: Does it get the ice off the windshield? Is it easy to lift? Is it easy to grip even with gloves?
Some people feel like they have to say *something* when asked for feedback or look foolish. Giving them some guidance on how to be helpful should ... ahem ... help.
I got snarky with someone at work a while back because I was overwhelmed and also I thought - foolishly - that I was successfully using humor to express myself. They let me know how they felt and ever since I've been a lot more thoughtful about how I give feedback to them.
posted by bunderful at 4:30 PM on December 6, 2018
What are some strategies for separating the signal from the noise when I’m getting feedback?
Decide the questions you most want answers to ('Does this music relax you? Do you associate it with exercise? Or whatever.) At the end, rephrase the feedback as useful items in terms that are meaningful to you (people felt the tempo was too fast, too slow, X felt abrupt, people associated it with the theme from The Brady Bunch, then ask, 'Did I cover the specifics here?'
How do I take it less personally?
The above will help, but mainly, recognize your coworker is inept at this. A lot of people don't know how to give feedback; it hasn't come up for them as a defined concept. She doesn't *know* how to give feedback. Your setting the table at the outset and providing guidance and parameters will help.
Should I broach the subject with this one colleague in particular? If so, how do I do it in a professional manner?
Nah. Just take control of what you want early, take the meaning from it at the end, and file it under 'some people are terrible at this', as in they're being asked to parallel park when they don't know how to drive, so if you genuinely want feedback and genuinely want their thoughts, you'll need to provide guidance.
My sympathies! I totally get how grating this must be.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:02 PM on December 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
Decide the questions you most want answers to ('Does this music relax you? Do you associate it with exercise? Or whatever.) At the end, rephrase the feedback as useful items in terms that are meaningful to you (people felt the tempo was too fast, too slow, X felt abrupt, people associated it with the theme from The Brady Bunch, then ask, 'Did I cover the specifics here?'
How do I take it less personally?
The above will help, but mainly, recognize your coworker is inept at this. A lot of people don't know how to give feedback; it hasn't come up for them as a defined concept. She doesn't *know* how to give feedback. Your setting the table at the outset and providing guidance and parameters will help.
Should I broach the subject with this one colleague in particular? If so, how do I do it in a professional manner?
Nah. Just take control of what you want early, take the meaning from it at the end, and file it under 'some people are terrible at this', as in they're being asked to parallel park when they don't know how to drive, so if you genuinely want feedback and genuinely want their thoughts, you'll need to provide guidance.
My sympathies! I totally get how grating this must be.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:02 PM on December 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
I recently stumbled across this presentation from Jennifer Peepas of Captain Awkward, titled "Give and Take:
Handling Constructive Criticism and Creative Feedback Like A Pro" and have been seriously considering passing it around to my team at work because I think every single person would get something from it, regardless of their position or role in the feedback process. I think she does a nice job addressing both how to give constructive criticism, and how to constructively receive it, and I really liked her focus on aftercare for the presenter/speaker and her acknowledgement of the vulnerable position we're in when we present creative work, which has some direct suggestions for the questions you pose at the end of your post!
posted by stellaluna at 5:35 PM on December 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
Handling Constructive Criticism and Creative Feedback Like A Pro" and have been seriously considering passing it around to my team at work because I think every single person would get something from it, regardless of their position or role in the feedback process. I think she does a nice job addressing both how to give constructive criticism, and how to constructively receive it, and I really liked her focus on aftercare for the presenter/speaker and her acknowledgement of the vulnerable position we're in when we present creative work, which has some direct suggestions for the questions you pose at the end of your post!
posted by stellaluna at 5:35 PM on December 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
At first I wanted to say that the woman who said “I liked it when it stopped” is a tool that you should just raise an eyebrow at. Her comment was smarmy and manipulative. But thinking about it for a minute, and trying to be kind, I think she doesn’t know how to express herself or her thoughts, so look at her with sympathy. Ask her to “please use her words and analytical skills to be more constructive.” I question your belief that she can speak to design.
posted by MountainDaisy at 6:06 PM on December 6, 2018
posted by MountainDaisy at 6:06 PM on December 6, 2018
Curate your feedback audience. Dont invite the ones who say they love everything you do, and don't invite the ones who give you useless feedback. Only invite the ones who, in the past, gave you useful and constructive feedback, or reach out to each of them separately. If you are challenged on it, either deflect (if you think they can't take criticism or are otherwise a lost cause) or give them constructive feedback: "in the past, your feedback has not been constructive, because [reasons]. If you are willing to [improvements], I'd be happy to have you participate in the future "
posted by davejay at 7:34 PM on December 6, 2018
posted by davejay at 7:34 PM on December 6, 2018
Distinguish between critiques of you and your work. One of the things I like about my job is that we have no-holds-barred discussion of ideas, but refrain from attacking people. I don't take criticism of things I produce (my work output) as criticisms of me personally, frankly because I could construct a thing in many different ways while other people can't do it in even one. In other words, try to distance yourself from what you're producing.
posted by axiom at 8:59 PM on December 6, 2018
posted by axiom at 8:59 PM on December 6, 2018
DISCLAIMER: I've never written music but I've got a few decades practice in receiving feedback on my writing. Because I know so little about music, I'm going to give examples from writing fiction. I hope they'll be at least somewhat helpful.
What are some strategies for separating the signal from the noise when I’m getting feedback?
A critic named Joseph McLellan once said, "I refuse to criticize a good apple for being a bad orange." Unfortunately, not everybody has that policy. Sometimes people will complain that your sword-and-sorcery epic is not scientifically plausible, or that your quietly realistic fiction doesn't have enough lasers. You may ignore these criticisms completely.
Other times, a criticism will strike you as so immediately true that you want to run off and start re-writing immediately.
But the vast majority of critiques are what I call Donkey Notes, from an old Yiddish saying:
"If one person calls you a donkey, don't worry. If two people call you a donkey, start to worry. If three people call you a donkey, buy a saddle."
So once you've thrown out the this-apple-is-a-bad-orange comments, it's worth sifting through the rest and looking for common threads. If there's something that everybody agreed was a problem, then fixing it should obviously be your main focus.
Leep in mind that while lay people can be very good at identifying how they reacted to your work, they aren't always good at knowing why. For example, people might say they're bored by the climax of the book-- but the problem isn't necessarily in the climax. It could be way back in the first chapter, where the author failed to establish the stakes that would make the climax matter. So trust people when they tell you about their reactions, but trust yourself in linking those reactions to your work.
And that brings us to the hardest kind of criticism to parse: when everybody disagrees. That could be a sign that your work is fundamentally sound, and all that's left to fix is a bunch of little tweaks. But it could also mean there's some huge underlying issue, and everybody is responding to it differently. There's no magic solution, but it's often helpful to hunt for some underlying thread that connects all the different complains. If everybody is complaining about a different chapter, and Merlin the Laserwizard happens to be in all those chapters, it might be an overall problem with Merlin's characterization.
posted by yankeefog at 7:28 AM on December 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
What are some strategies for separating the signal from the noise when I’m getting feedback?
A critic named Joseph McLellan once said, "I refuse to criticize a good apple for being a bad orange." Unfortunately, not everybody has that policy. Sometimes people will complain that your sword-and-sorcery epic is not scientifically plausible, or that your quietly realistic fiction doesn't have enough lasers. You may ignore these criticisms completely.
Other times, a criticism will strike you as so immediately true that you want to run off and start re-writing immediately.
But the vast majority of critiques are what I call Donkey Notes, from an old Yiddish saying:
"If one person calls you a donkey, don't worry. If two people call you a donkey, start to worry. If three people call you a donkey, buy a saddle."
So once you've thrown out the this-apple-is-a-bad-orange comments, it's worth sifting through the rest and looking for common threads. If there's something that everybody agreed was a problem, then fixing it should obviously be your main focus.
Leep in mind that while lay people can be very good at identifying how they reacted to your work, they aren't always good at knowing why. For example, people might say they're bored by the climax of the book-- but the problem isn't necessarily in the climax. It could be way back in the first chapter, where the author failed to establish the stakes that would make the climax matter. So trust people when they tell you about their reactions, but trust yourself in linking those reactions to your work.
And that brings us to the hardest kind of criticism to parse: when everybody disagrees. That could be a sign that your work is fundamentally sound, and all that's left to fix is a bunch of little tweaks. But it could also mean there's some huge underlying issue, and everybody is responding to it differently. There's no magic solution, but it's often helpful to hunt for some underlying thread that connects all the different complains. If everybody is complaining about a different chapter, and Merlin the Laserwizard happens to be in all those chapters, it might be an overall problem with Merlin's characterization.
posted by yankeefog at 7:28 AM on December 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
Both giving and accepting feedback take work. It does sound like some of the feedback was not helpful. Here is how I think about :
Feedback of this sort is like edits on writing. I start with the presumption that it is meant to be helpful, but I do not have to accept it. The takeaway is that just because someone said something, you don't have to presume that they are correct. They are giving you information; you are the one who can decide if any given piece is actionable.
For those who gave you advice that was a little overly vague, it is absolutely acceptable to go back and ask them to clarify or shore up their feedback. "You said that XYZ needed work. Was it the foo, the bar, or something else? Is there anything you can pinpoint?" etc.
posted by annabear at 7:30 AM on December 7, 2018
Feedback of this sort is like edits on writing. I start with the presumption that it is meant to be helpful, but I do not have to accept it. The takeaway is that just because someone said something, you don't have to presume that they are correct. They are giving you information; you are the one who can decide if any given piece is actionable.
For those who gave you advice that was a little overly vague, it is absolutely acceptable to go back and ask them to clarify or shore up their feedback. "You said that XYZ needed work. Was it the foo, the bar, or something else? Is there anything you can pinpoint?" etc.
posted by annabear at 7:30 AM on December 7, 2018
“i liked when it stopped” (it was music). She also made other asides that felt similarly cutting and unhelpful.
I think people are being way too gentle in their suggestions about how to deal with this one. Ideally, during the meeting I would have gotten a cutting zinger on her right back. It is not difficult to bite your tongue and say "I just really didn't like this music at all" versus "I liked when it stopped." For fuck's sake.
posted by desuetude at 7:49 AM on December 7, 2018
I think people are being way too gentle in their suggestions about how to deal with this one. Ideally, during the meeting I would have gotten a cutting zinger on her right back. It is not difficult to bite your tongue and say "I just really didn't like this music at all" versus "I liked when it stopped." For fuck's sake.
posted by desuetude at 7:49 AM on December 7, 2018
Oh, as for how to get more constructive feedback, do you have someone else at your company who knows enough about your work and everyone else's (or is just a good translator in general) who could serve as the facilitator?
posted by desuetude at 7:52 AM on December 7, 2018
posted by desuetude at 7:52 AM on December 7, 2018
This is just for the how to take it less personally part. It's a wonderful thing to be open to constructive feedback on one's work, and it's OK to admit that we all also need support and encouragement. And the need for encouragement is even greater when feedback is regularly arriving in rude and not-constructive ways.
There has been research about the ratio of positive comments to negative comments that we need to hear (not sure I can summarize it accurately), but when I'm getting a ratio that makes me feel wounded and self-doubting, I find it helpful to consciously look back at past successes to give myself a boost. Apparently some people do this naturally, just sort of mentally dwell on that time they won the lacrosse game and the awesome yacht they own, and any criticism is a momentary anomaly and just rolls off. Whereas what tends to pop into my mind is every dumb thing I've ever said, especially in front of a group, and then a list of all my bad habits, and then...
So you know, take a moment to look back at what you're proudest of in your portfolio, listen to the awesome music you've created before, and direct your thoughts toward a highlight reel of every time (even if unrelated to your work, no matter how long ago) that someone has complimented you or recognized you by giving you a diploma or an award or a certificate or a trophy. Doing this brings that ratio up to where eventually you feel in your gut (rather than just knowing in your mind) that this coworker's rude comments are coming from one person who doesn't really get what you do and doesn't know how to give constructive feedback, either. Perspective. By the way, this is a good question that resonated with me and generated some good answers. I mean that sincerely, and you can add that to your stack of compliments.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 9:37 AM on December 7, 2018
There has been research about the ratio of positive comments to negative comments that we need to hear (not sure I can summarize it accurately), but when I'm getting a ratio that makes me feel wounded and self-doubting, I find it helpful to consciously look back at past successes to give myself a boost. Apparently some people do this naturally, just sort of mentally dwell on that time they won the lacrosse game and the awesome yacht they own, and any criticism is a momentary anomaly and just rolls off. Whereas what tends to pop into my mind is every dumb thing I've ever said, especially in front of a group, and then a list of all my bad habits, and then...
So you know, take a moment to look back at what you're proudest of in your portfolio, listen to the awesome music you've created before, and direct your thoughts toward a highlight reel of every time (even if unrelated to your work, no matter how long ago) that someone has complimented you or recognized you by giving you a diploma or an award or a certificate or a trophy. Doing this brings that ratio up to where eventually you feel in your gut (rather than just knowing in your mind) that this coworker's rude comments are coming from one person who doesn't really get what you do and doesn't know how to give constructive feedback, either. Perspective. By the way, this is a good question that resonated with me and generated some good answers. I mean that sincerely, and you can add that to your stack of compliments.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 9:37 AM on December 7, 2018
Oh boy. I've been in your shoes. I've worked in an industry that involves daily review and critique of work. I'm a sensitive snowflake and for years, I took this sort of thing personally. However, I've developed some perspective over the years. It's not about me, it's about the work. Everyone's goal should be to make the work better. Everything being said and done in the room should be focused on that goal.
As others have noted, it's good to let your reviewers know what kind of feedback you're looking for. If you KNOW that section 3 still needs work, say it. "I'm looking for feedback on sections 1 & 2 only. Section 3 is still in progress."
And, if people are snarky or unkind, don't let them get away with it. I suppose this part of receiving critique is the "thickening the skin" part. Remember: your work is not you. If anyone says snarky stuff in the future, remind yourself that giving helpful critique is part of the job, and they just failed at that. Point that out. Respond, "that comment isn't really helpful. I'm looking for concrete suggestions on how to improve X and Y." Believe me, they won't be so quick to cut you down in the future. This kind of bullying is extremely unprofessional and ultimately unhealthy for a good work environment.
posted by cleverevans at 11:40 AM on December 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
As others have noted, it's good to let your reviewers know what kind of feedback you're looking for. If you KNOW that section 3 still needs work, say it. "I'm looking for feedback on sections 1 & 2 only. Section 3 is still in progress."
And, if people are snarky or unkind, don't let them get away with it. I suppose this part of receiving critique is the "thickening the skin" part. Remember: your work is not you. If anyone says snarky stuff in the future, remind yourself that giving helpful critique is part of the job, and they just failed at that. Point that out. Respond, "that comment isn't really helpful. I'm looking for concrete suggestions on how to improve X and Y." Believe me, they won't be so quick to cut you down in the future. This kind of bullying is extremely unprofessional and ultimately unhealthy for a good work environment.
posted by cleverevans at 11:40 AM on December 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Is she one of those "edgy" people who think they get a pass saying rude things because they are "amusing characters?"
Either way, your colleague was being rude. Getting offended by her comments does not mean your skin is thin.
posted by bearette at 11:56 AM on December 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Either way, your colleague was being rude. Getting offended by her comments does not mean your skin is thin.
posted by bearette at 11:56 AM on December 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
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You might NOT need a thicker skin - maybe they need to be better or more thoughtful about how to deliver criticism. I would never say "I liked when it stopped" about a colleague's presentation, for example.
I think it's hard to do a creative thing for work - especially in a context like yours - because doing creative things is associated with a very personal effort. It takes time, and a different kind of effort, to just produce stuff for other people.
One thing you can do is start to train your colleagues about how to give you feedback. What should they be listening for? What is helpful to you? Break it down into categories or types of feedback that you can really use - and communicate that right before you request feedback. I don't know enough about your context to make strong suggestions about what this might be... perhaps agreeing on the goals of the music (what it's trying to do, how it's trying to make you feel) and then some broad strokes techniques ("yes to the menacing drums, no to the screaching bagpipes") could help turn their very general reactions into actionable feedback.
posted by entropone at 1:08 PM on December 6, 2018 [16 favorites]