The pipes, the pipes are calling...
June 29, 2018 11:14 AM Subscribe
So as a follow up to my last question, the plumber came out and reviewed our situation and recommended that we re-do the hot and cold water system since it's all galvanized pipe through concrete slab. Is it normal to do EVERYTHING, including the water main in this situation?
He drew up an estimate that includes doing a new water main, new cold routing, new hot routing and a new hot water heater. He explained that when you do new hot you should do new cold at the same time, and might as well throw in the water main at the same time.
All told, it came to $24k, which I have no idea how to finance. I want to know if doing everything is customary and reasonable, or if he's over-reaching.
Location PDX, USA.
He drew up an estimate that includes doing a new water main, new cold routing, new hot routing and a new hot water heater. He explained that when you do new hot you should do new cold at the same time, and might as well throw in the water main at the same time.
All told, it came to $24k, which I have no idea how to finance. I want to know if doing everything is customary and reasonable, or if he's over-reaching.
Location PDX, USA.
When you say "new cold routing, new hot routing" is the plumber re-routing the pipes outside of the slab? Or cutting through the slab to replace the pipes in their existing location? If they are re-routing the pipes outside the slab (i.e. through the walls) there's a bit less of the shared labor "while we're in there" imperative compared to cutting up the slab. Having said that, any job that you break up in to chunks and do piecemeal will be more expensive in the long run. (But, if you're going to be paying 16% APR by charging this on your credit card or something, it might make more sense to do it piecemeal.) +1 on getting a second opinion and +1 on figuring out if the main is also made of galvanized or not- it could be lead or copper, both of which last a long, long time.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 11:48 AM on June 29, 2018
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 11:48 AM on June 29, 2018
Response by poster: I did some checking and the water main into the garage is galvanized, but I'm not sure about the whole run from the meter to the house.
posted by fiercekitten at 12:21 PM on June 29, 2018
posted by fiercekitten at 12:21 PM on June 29, 2018
I don't really understand this.
You have a leak that comes after your hot water heater, and it's hard for me to imagine anybody pouring concrete directly around a hot water pipe because then the concrete would be a huge heat sink, which would up your heating bills and make it more difficult for you to get truly hot water out of a tap.
Such a pipe might pierce the slab, I'd think, but only if that piercing was insulated, and such insulation would make it not much harder to replace than any other pipe, and would certainly seem to make cutting into the slab itself unnecessary.
And hot water is far, far more corrosive than cold water, and that makes any assertion that you should do new cold piping at the same time you're doing leak-driven new hot piping seem ludicrous to me.
I think you should find a plumber who's more interested in fixing your actual problem than in generating tens of thousands of dollars in revenue to remedy a relatively simple problem.
posted by jamjam at 12:37 PM on June 29, 2018
You have a leak that comes after your hot water heater, and it's hard for me to imagine anybody pouring concrete directly around a hot water pipe because then the concrete would be a huge heat sink, which would up your heating bills and make it more difficult for you to get truly hot water out of a tap.
Such a pipe might pierce the slab, I'd think, but only if that piercing was insulated, and such insulation would make it not much harder to replace than any other pipe, and would certainly seem to make cutting into the slab itself unnecessary.
And hot water is far, far more corrosive than cold water, and that makes any assertion that you should do new cold piping at the same time you're doing leak-driven new hot piping seem ludicrous to me.
I think you should find a plumber who's more interested in fixing your actual problem than in generating tens of thousands of dollars in revenue to remedy a relatively simple problem.
posted by jamjam at 12:37 PM on June 29, 2018
Hot water pipe run directly through a slab with no insulation is something I've experienced firsthand. (no, it wasn't a radiant heating scheme.) It's really not that uncommon, even if it's not a great practice. Even if the pipe did have an insulating sleeve around it, there's no way of accessing horizontal, under the slab runs without cutting through the slab. This is rigid galvanized pipe with threaded fittings, not something flexible that can be fished/pulled through a small opening. A second opinion is still a great idea, though.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 12:56 PM on June 29, 2018
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 12:56 PM on June 29, 2018
Best answer: Our place just up the street from you, built the same way, slab on grade, was repiped in 2011. The existing main at this property was copper and not galvanized, and therefore not replaced; everything else was galvanized & replaced w/ PEX. The whole job - done by Repipe Specialists - cost ~$5000.00. Be sure to have your new piping insulated. Because these houses have no attic & the overhead repipe is right up againt the ceiling/roofline, cold outdoor temps can put a real dent in how hot your hot water is by the time is reaches your tap if the PEX isn’t sleeved.
posted by sutureselves at 2:32 PM on June 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by sutureselves at 2:32 PM on June 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
Best answer: $24,000 seems like a strange number, too high to be running pipe though the walls and ceiling and too low to be tearing up the floor and putting new pipe under the slab. The extra cost in the estimate could be the incoming water line, which would involve a lot of digging in the yard and potentially busting up the floor wherever the main comes into the house. I also wonder about the recommendation to replace the water heater, there's nothing about the job that says "replace the water heater too" to me, if it's not giving you any issues and it's not excessively old (15-20 years) I would push back against that. Even if it gives you trouble down the line there's nothing about this job that would make water heater replacement easier now than later.
I would expect a plumber that specializes in replacement pipe systems to give an estimate closer to sutureselves. PEX pipe doesn't look pretty but it's great for snaking new hot and cold lines though existing walls and ceiling with as little fuss as possible. So I agree with the advice to get more opinions, especially from plumbers that specialize in this kind of retrofit job.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:48 PM on June 29, 2018
I would expect a plumber that specializes in replacement pipe systems to give an estimate closer to sutureselves. PEX pipe doesn't look pretty but it's great for snaking new hot and cold lines though existing walls and ceiling with as little fuss as possible. So I agree with the advice to get more opinions, especially from plumbers that specialize in this kind of retrofit job.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:48 PM on June 29, 2018
Oh and our house’s repipe - which predated our ownership, so I’m just going off limited records provided us by the seller - runs through a number of soffits installed at wall/ceiling margins. I do not know if this drywall work was included in the cost of the project, or who performed it.
posted by sutureselves at 7:22 AM on June 30, 2018
posted by sutureselves at 7:22 AM on June 30, 2018
Reinforcing what sutureselves said: My wife and I ripped out our galvanized steel pipe when it started spraying a gentle mist in the crawl space. Re-plumbing with PEX cost me like $1500 in parts, including the $400 joiner tool and a massive upgrade on the bath/shower valve, and a full weekend that would have been shorter if I'd bought a Sawzall first thing rather than trying to unscrew the galvanized steel.
Our house is 1 bath, on a shared wall with the kitchen, which made it easier, but still. Get a breakdown of where that $24k price is coming from, make sure that the feed line from the water mains is really still needing replacement.
posted by straw at 8:44 AM on June 30, 2018
Our house is 1 bath, on a shared wall with the kitchen, which made it easier, but still. Get a breakdown of where that $24k price is coming from, make sure that the feed line from the water mains is really still needing replacement.
posted by straw at 8:44 AM on June 30, 2018
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The problem with galvanized pipe is it can go at any time, and I've heard of larger sudden leaks than what you were dealing with. Our last house had one small section of pipe that was galvanized - our initial home instpector missed it, and I missed it in the 5 years I lived there, but the people who bought our house noticed that, and got a reasonable concession for that :/
Which is to say that yes, it definitely makes sense to do the cold at the same time. Certainly any cold pipe next to the hot pipe that's coming out *really* makes sense to replace. If you leave some runs of cold only (outdoor hoses), you run the risk of forgetting, and having a hose of damocles hanging over your head.
Is the supply from the main also galvanized steel? Or are they just trying to get that one thrown in?
posted by nobeagle at 11:29 AM on June 29, 2018 [1 favorite]