Considering becoming an Arbonne Consultant
June 10, 2018 10:03 AM Subscribe
Mrs Ashtray Elvis is considering becoming an Arbonne consultant. We've done the research...she's considering this an opportunity for her to flex her entrepreneurial and sales muscles. She has a great career currently, but her occupation does not involve sales. She has asked all of the 'right' questions, and is aware enough to realize this wouldn't be (financially) a career, but is happy to keep her career (which she loves) and have a sideline. Looking for thought/experiences with Arbonne, if you could share. Thanks!
Arbonne is an MLM, which is an easy way to not only lose a lot of money, but also burn through all of your friends as they get tired of hearing your sales pitch. Try searching for Arbonne in the antiMLM subreddit.
posted by lovecrafty at 10:19 AM on June 10, 2018 [40 favorites]
posted by lovecrafty at 10:19 AM on June 10, 2018 [40 favorites]
Also, I don’t know what research you have done. But there are a number of links online that shows that the average consultant makes about $800/yr… Before expenses, not after. This means that the average consultant is probably losing money.
If your wife’s goal is really to gain sales experience, I suggest she gets a very part-time job in some kind of sales environment.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:24 AM on June 10, 2018 [22 favorites]
If your wife’s goal is really to gain sales experience, I suggest she gets a very part-time job in some kind of sales environment.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:24 AM on June 10, 2018 [22 favorites]
I was part of a moms group who developed Arbonne sickness.
Overpriced products that do not perform miracles. Before-and-after photos that are....sort of convincing? Parties that were not parties, but opportunities to get out my wallet.
Mrs. Ashtray Elvis should get a job at a store or a used car dealership if she wants to flex her retail muscles. That way she can get an actual paycheck, instead of perpetrating an MLM on your friends and associates.
posted by 41swans at 10:29 AM on June 10, 2018 [17 favorites]
Overpriced products that do not perform miracles. Before-and-after photos that are....sort of convincing? Parties that were not parties, but opportunities to get out my wallet.
Mrs. Ashtray Elvis should get a job at a store or a used car dealership if she wants to flex her retail muscles. That way she can get an actual paycheck, instead of perpetrating an MLM on your friends and associates.
posted by 41swans at 10:29 AM on June 10, 2018 [17 favorites]
Here's one woman's experience with Arbonne
Remember most people won't share their negative experiences. They are either still in the scheme and desperately trying to recoup money, or they're out and ashamed they were duped. MLMs can be cult-like and it's best not to dip in a toe in case you get fully dragged under.
posted by KateViolet at 10:33 AM on June 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
Remember most people won't share their negative experiences. They are either still in the scheme and desperately trying to recoup money, or they're out and ashamed they were duped. MLMs can be cult-like and it's best not to dip in a toe in case you get fully dragged under.
posted by KateViolet at 10:33 AM on June 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
Arbonne is an MLM and those are basically always a terrible idea.
Flipping stuff on eBay can be fun and profitable if she has any sort of knack for vintage stuff thrifting/garage saling/ whatever. There are a ton of eBay seller Facebook groups that she could look into if she wanted to learn more.
posted by Slinga at 10:33 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Flipping stuff on eBay can be fun and profitable if she has any sort of knack for vintage stuff thrifting/garage saling/ whatever. There are a ton of eBay seller Facebook groups that she could look into if she wanted to learn more.
posted by Slinga at 10:33 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
I agree with the above. Arbonne is an MLM and most people do not have positive experiences. Would your wife be interested in selling items on Etsy? A great option might be doing some garage sale thrifting for vintage finds, then marketing her shop on Etsy. It would scratch a similar itch with a similar make-your-own schedule, but would not require participation in an MLM.
posted by samthemander at 10:34 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 10:34 AM on June 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
The fact that you say "We've done the research" and "She has asked all of the right questions" is ringing SERIOUS alarm bells because if that was really true, you would know to stay far away. How have you done research...by reading Arbonne's sales pitch?
Please take a deep dive into Mefi's abundant library of posts tagged MLM.
Even if your wife was cheerfully saying "I love scamming friends and alienating family!" (which is what this is, FULL STOP) there are far more profitable ways of doing that.
posted by acidic at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2018 [39 favorites]
Please take a deep dive into Mefi's abundant library of posts tagged MLM.
Even if your wife was cheerfully saying "I love scamming friends and alienating family!" (which is what this is, FULL STOP) there are far more profitable ways of doing that.
posted by acidic at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2018 [39 favorites]
Mrs Ashtray Elvis, please don't do this. Arbonne is a MLM. You will lose money as well as all your friends.
One of the reasons MLMs pull in so many victims, ah I mean "entrepreneurs," is that many, many women in particular want a part-time, work-from-home, flexible-hours situation. But if this is Mrs. Ashtray Elvis, selling on EBay, Etsy, or ThredUp, or a similar site would work better. If what she wants is to sell makeup, and doesn't need to work at home, she can apply at Sephora, Ulta, Nordstrom, or Target for a real, non-scam job.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:36 AM on June 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
One of the reasons MLMs pull in so many victims, ah I mean "entrepreneurs," is that many, many women in particular want a part-time, work-from-home, flexible-hours situation. But if this is Mrs. Ashtray Elvis, selling on EBay, Etsy, or ThredUp, or a similar site would work better. If what she wants is to sell makeup, and doesn't need to work at home, she can apply at Sephora, Ulta, Nordstrom, or Target for a real, non-scam job.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:36 AM on June 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
The only way people make any money in an MLM is by recruiting people into your downline and pressuring those people to stay active and recruit more people. I guess that is sort of sales - you're selling the hollow promise of financial security and empowerment - but it isn't about the products, and it often involves the worst kind of pressure and eliding the truth that people sometimes associate with sales. The products are very secondary; nobody cares or wants what Arbonne is offering. MLM companies often make a lot of money, but individual "consultants" rarely make very much. It is an exploitive business model, and one that everyone should avoid.
The antiMLM subreddit linked above is both hilarious and has lots of good stories. Last Week Tonight did an MLM episode you may want to watch.
posted by jeoc at 10:40 AM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
The antiMLM subreddit linked above is both hilarious and has lots of good stories. Last Week Tonight did an MLM episode you may want to watch.
posted by jeoc at 10:40 AM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Never pay money to work.
posted by rhizome at 10:41 AM on June 10, 2018 [31 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 10:41 AM on June 10, 2018 [31 favorites]
I am so glad you’re asking questions before jumping in.
I’ll add to the chorus saying there are a zillion part-time sales jobs that don’t require recruiting your own competition and turning off everyone you know by inviting them to sales “parties.” I’ve done regular non-MLM commissioned sales, and like many others I was absolutely not cut out for it, so if your wife actually has the aptitude for this kind of work, she really can take her pick out there!
Please, please heed what others are saying, and don’t get involved with MLM. There is no “one of the good ones” in this business model — only the bad and the ugly.
posted by armeowda at 10:53 AM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
I’ll add to the chorus saying there are a zillion part-time sales jobs that don’t require recruiting your own competition and turning off everyone you know by inviting them to sales “parties.” I’ve done regular non-MLM commissioned sales, and like many others I was absolutely not cut out for it, so if your wife actually has the aptitude for this kind of work, she really can take her pick out there!
Please, please heed what others are saying, and don’t get involved with MLM. There is no “one of the good ones” in this business model — only the bad and the ugly.
posted by armeowda at 10:53 AM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also, previously. It’s been about nine years of downline recruitment; you couldn’t see the top of the pyramid then, and it is even bigger now.
posted by armeowda at 11:00 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 11:00 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
OK just as a slight departure from everyone else: yes this absolutely is MLM, but that in and of itself is not inherently a bad thing. MLMs are not automatically scams; Avon Skin So Soft was amazing, Amway's spaghetti sauce mix is the shit. If she's very motivated, she may be able to make some money selling direct to consumers; she is free to ignore the downline.
What is far more likely is that she'll spend more than she earns and the only things she'll learn about are a) everything she never wanted to know about cult mentalities, and b) how to alienate all her friends.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:14 AM on June 10, 2018
What is far more likely is that she'll spend more than she earns and the only things she'll learn about are a) everything she never wanted to know about cult mentalities, and b) how to alienate all her friends.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:14 AM on June 10, 2018
Response by poster: Mrs.Ashtray Elvis here...thank you for your responses. This is something I am considering, as my sister in law has recently become a consultant, and her cousin is a very successful Arbonne rep (I'm not sure what level she has attained, but Arbonne is her career & after 2 years she had the car - paid for by Arbonne). I'm aware that it is a pyramid/MLM, and frankly I don't have an issue with that. I'm curious if anyone out in 'Metafilter land' has had experience with Arbonne, i.e. become a consultant & succeeded &/or was not successful and left the company. There are many perspective out there and I'm interested in hearing them all before I make a decision. Thanks again for your input :)
posted by ashtray elvis at 11:22 AM on June 10, 2018
posted by ashtray elvis at 11:22 AM on June 10, 2018
Just FYI, the 'free car' is not free. They pay the monthly payments on it--only so long as you are selling a certain level of products. Ever fall below it (which happens often, as the products are overpriced and the market quickly gets saturated), you're on the hook for the payment yourself. You *only* make money by recruiting people below you. As it seems your SIL's cousin did with her, and your SIL is trying to do with you. A given community can only sustain so many levels before the bottom fish have to start desperately throwing good money after bad.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:34 AM on June 10, 2018 [42 favorites]
posted by lovecrafty at 11:34 AM on June 10, 2018 [42 favorites]
'm curious if anyone out in 'Metafilter land' has had experience with Arbonne, i.e. become a consultant & succeeded &/or was not successful and left the company.
Apparently one of my distant cousins has lost thousands of dollars doing this--according to my auntie, there isn't much of a neighborhood/friends/family market for $50 shampoo, $300 facial brushes and $150 facial cream. The products are no better than bottom-of-the-line drugstore products and cost at least ten times more. My cousin couldn't sell any products, nor could she find anyone who wanted to be a consultant selling such expensive crap. So it was lose-lose for her.
I get you're saying there are many perspectives out there, but there really aren't. I mean, it's a pyramid scheme; only a teeny percentage of people at the top make anything, and thinking one can become one of the rare earners is EXACTLY how they get smart people like you to sign up as consultants.
You know that chances are you will lose a LOT of money doing this, right?
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 11:48 AM on June 10, 2018 [12 favorites]
Apparently one of my distant cousins has lost thousands of dollars doing this--according to my auntie, there isn't much of a neighborhood/friends/family market for $50 shampoo, $300 facial brushes and $150 facial cream. The products are no better than bottom-of-the-line drugstore products and cost at least ten times more. My cousin couldn't sell any products, nor could she find anyone who wanted to be a consultant selling such expensive crap. So it was lose-lose for her.
I get you're saying there are many perspectives out there, but there really aren't. I mean, it's a pyramid scheme; only a teeny percentage of people at the top make anything, and thinking one can become one of the rare earners is EXACTLY how they get smart people like you to sign up as consultants.
You know that chances are you will lose a LOT of money doing this, right?
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 11:48 AM on June 10, 2018 [12 favorites]
I'm aware that it is a pyramid/MLM, and frankly I don't have an issue with that
Why, though? If you're aware of it, you realise that it's unsustainable, right? Draw a pyramid with you at the bottom - then realise how many people you've got to harass - and that's what you'll be doing - harassing- to break even.
Put it simply, your friends will hate you if you MLM them. They might buy from you once, but you'll become an obligation. They'll start muting you, start blocking you. Read Elle Beau's blog if you have any doubt on this.
posted by threetwentytwo at 11:50 AM on June 10, 2018 [27 favorites]
Why, though? If you're aware of it, you realise that it's unsustainable, right? Draw a pyramid with you at the bottom - then realise how many people you've got to harass - and that's what you'll be doing - harassing- to break even.
Put it simply, your friends will hate you if you MLM them. They might buy from you once, but you'll become an obligation. They'll start muting you, start blocking you. Read Elle Beau's blog if you have any doubt on this.
posted by threetwentytwo at 11:50 AM on June 10, 2018 [27 favorites]
If you join because your SIL is a consultant and her cousin is "successful," you are your SIL's downline and making her money, and she is her cousin's downline and making her money. You would create a business relationship that will get tangled in a family web and will never be able to leave because doing so would necessarily involve harming your SIL financially and so on up the line. This is how they get you and keep you, through a feeling of obligation. Your mention that this is a family entreaty makes it much, much worse. Run far far away from this "opportunity" to join a pyramid scheme, listen to everyone posting about how bad it is. The only people you will hear positive stories from are Arbonne people who are trying to make money off of you or are successful in making money off of others, not people actually selling the products. Success is defined by how many people you have in your downline, not what you sell or how much you sell or how much you make from that. Product sales are the smallest part of anyone's income in a scheme like this. It is never ever worth the ruining of friendships and family relationships.
There are side gigs that don't involve MLM, and there are better ways to bond with one's SIL than joining an MLM with her.
posted by juniperesque at 12:03 PM on June 10, 2018 [47 favorites]
There are side gigs that don't involve MLM, and there are better ways to bond with one's SIL than joining an MLM with her.
posted by juniperesque at 12:03 PM on June 10, 2018 [47 favorites]
I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but it is especially dumb to join the same MLM that two family members have already joined. They have already pumped your family and mutual social circle dry (in fact that's literally what is happening to you now, you just can't see it).
I'm truly very sorry that your family is exploiting you for profit.
posted by acidic at 12:06 PM on June 10, 2018 [50 favorites]
I'm truly very sorry that your family is exploiting you for profit.
posted by acidic at 12:06 PM on June 10, 2018 [50 favorites]
Excellent point. If anything, you want to be in the downlines of people you don't know and who know none of the same people you do. By the way, the math works out that there are only like 7 levels of downline from the originator of the entire thing (aka Arbonne themselves) before you cover something like the entire population of Earth. You, your SIL, and her cousin are already three of those levels, and I'm guessing SIL's cousin is not BFF with the founders of Arbonne.
posted by rhizome at 12:10 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:10 PM on June 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Mrs. Elvis: your SIL is literally trying to make money off you. She, too, is probably indifferent to the pyramid/MLM aspect of it; she doesn't care if you end up losing a lot of money, just so long as you make some sales for her. She's probably lying to you about how well she's doing, because she needs to recruit you to make what little cash she's going to make (or offset her losses, more like it).
How does thinking about it in those terms make you feel?
Even if that doesn't bother you, how do you think the people around you whom you try to sell to or recruit will feel, knowing that you are looking at them like that?
Is that what you want to make the people in your life think of you?
posted by praemunire at 12:16 PM on June 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
How does thinking about it in those terms make you feel?
Even if that doesn't bother you, how do you think the people around you whom you try to sell to or recruit will feel, knowing that you are looking at them like that?
Is that what you want to make the people in your life think of you?
posted by praemunire at 12:16 PM on June 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
This first-person account that was recently linked here on Metafilter described how the apparent success of the upline representatives was faked. I'd be wary of others' claims of their success, keeping in mind that they are trying to recruit you.
Also: other peoples' success in any endeavor is not necessarily replicable. Even if your cousin really is doing as well as she claims, that doesn't mean you'll be able to replicate her success. I can name a great many people in my circle of acquaintances who are very successful at one thing or another, but that doesn't make me think I could do the same. Our next-door neighbors, for instance, are successful small business owners. The insight this gives me into what it takes to run a successful small business convinces me I am not remotely equipped to do the same. People don't become great successes in things because it's easy; they do it through some combination of skill, hard work, tenacity, timing, and luck that most other people are not likely to experience.
In any case, I'd ask to see hard numbers from this successful cousin: income/expense statements and the like, rather than mere verbal assurances. That story I linked to makes it really clear that the bulk of the selling is often devoted to recruiting and retaining downline representatives, rather than to selling product.
posted by Orlop at 12:17 PM on June 10, 2018 [8 favorites]
Also: other peoples' success in any endeavor is not necessarily replicable. Even if your cousin really is doing as well as she claims, that doesn't mean you'll be able to replicate her success. I can name a great many people in my circle of acquaintances who are very successful at one thing or another, but that doesn't make me think I could do the same. Our next-door neighbors, for instance, are successful small business owners. The insight this gives me into what it takes to run a successful small business convinces me I am not remotely equipped to do the same. People don't become great successes in things because it's easy; they do it through some combination of skill, hard work, tenacity, timing, and luck that most other people are not likely to experience.
In any case, I'd ask to see hard numbers from this successful cousin: income/expense statements and the like, rather than mere verbal assurances. That story I linked to makes it really clear that the bulk of the selling is often devoted to recruiting and retaining downline representatives, rather than to selling product.
posted by Orlop at 12:17 PM on June 10, 2018 [8 favorites]
Also, if this is about being entrepreneurial, consider all the things entrepreneurs can do that Argonne consultants cannot: negotiate prices with suppliers; create new products; rebrand existing products etc
posted by KateViolet at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by KateViolet at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2018 [15 favorites]
You've asked for people with experience of MLMs so I can say this- as a SAHM I have been approached for this stuff at least ten times and I've refused every time. And this isn't because I'm particularly smart, it's because I am the daughter of a gambler and it is the same impulse at work.
And the house wins. And the house is not you.
posted by threetwentytwo at 12:36 PM on June 10, 2018 [12 favorites]
And the house wins. And the house is not you.
posted by threetwentytwo at 12:36 PM on June 10, 2018 [12 favorites]
Yeah, I know several people who do Arbonne. The products are pretty good, but none of them is making any money. Just like with all MLMs, the only way to make actual money is not by selling the product but rather by recruiting others to the MLM scheme.
posted by slkinsey at 12:37 PM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by slkinsey at 12:37 PM on June 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I would dispute that a MLM is a pyramid scheme simply by virtue of being a MLM. Here's an article worth reading on distinguishing between the two.
My personal bias is based on Mary Kay. It absolutely is a MLM; it is not a pyramid scheme. And rarest of the rare, my mother's cousin has been the #1 sales consultant in MK for more than twenty five years. She is known as The Queen of Personal Sales, because that's where her numbers come from: direct, not downline, sales.
So it is possible, it just virtually never happens. The stories about people going into debt, earning less than minimum wage and and being hosed with huge inventory gathering dust in their garages are absolutely, 100% true.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:42 PM on June 10, 2018
My personal bias is based on Mary Kay. It absolutely is a MLM; it is not a pyramid scheme. And rarest of the rare, my mother's cousin has been the #1 sales consultant in MK for more than twenty five years. She is known as The Queen of Personal Sales, because that's where her numbers come from: direct, not downline, sales.
So it is possible, it just virtually never happens. The stories about people going into debt, earning less than minimum wage and and being hosed with huge inventory gathering dust in their garages are absolutely, 100% true.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:42 PM on June 10, 2018
I have a friend who is into that same company. She tried to sell but now mostly she seems limited to occasionally talking up some product that she likes for herself. Which...whatever! She buys a product and likes it. So, while I think she started it as a side-hustle, I don't think it worked out that way.
I'm a part of several women's small business groups and I won't join unless they have a policy against MLMs in their groups. And if someone pops up wanting advice on building their business or leads, if they don't get the admin talk and pulled, I leave the group. Because traditional sales and business building methods don't work for MLM sales people. You are in command of so few elements of the business and you are so limited in how you can grow your business that it's not worth it as a side gig. You are paying a company to be their employee and if you do great, then they do great! If you do poorly, guess what, they still do great! They should be illegal.
Financially and personally, you would be better off using your "spare" time taking sales and marketing classes online, learning how to maximize your retirement savings, getting super into personal finances, and/or doing things like cooking healthy food and exercising. Make those things your side gigs.
posted by amanda at 1:30 PM on June 10, 2018 [15 favorites]
I'm a part of several women's small business groups and I won't join unless they have a policy against MLMs in their groups. And if someone pops up wanting advice on building their business or leads, if they don't get the admin talk and pulled, I leave the group. Because traditional sales and business building methods don't work for MLM sales people. You are in command of so few elements of the business and you are so limited in how you can grow your business that it's not worth it as a side gig. You are paying a company to be their employee and if you do great, then they do great! If you do poorly, guess what, they still do great! They should be illegal.
Financially and personally, you would be better off using your "spare" time taking sales and marketing classes online, learning how to maximize your retirement savings, getting super into personal finances, and/or doing things like cooking healthy food and exercising. Make those things your side gigs.
posted by amanda at 1:30 PM on June 10, 2018 [15 favorites]
I worked with a group of women who got involved in Arbonne and I watched the whole sorry saga unfold over the course of about a year. It started with them all excitedly going off to some recruitment event - they all got dressed up in the office where we worked, it was a big occasion so it stuck in my memory.
I don't know the ins-and-outs of how it all imploded (as a guy I was *thankfully* left on the outside) but there were some serious arguments between this group, three women left the company we all worked for as a result of the fights and I later heard two of them had declared bankruptcy as a direct result of their involvement with this scam. Like I say, I don't have all the details but I remember it being very traumatic for everyone who had been involved.
Please be rational about this: you asked for opinions, and your answer is more than 20 people saying it's a bad idea and nobody saying it's a good idea. Listen to the evidence.
posted by matthew.alexander at 1:31 PM on June 10, 2018 [11 favorites]
I don't know the ins-and-outs of how it all imploded (as a guy I was *thankfully* left on the outside) but there were some serious arguments between this group, three women left the company we all worked for as a result of the fights and I later heard two of them had declared bankruptcy as a direct result of their involvement with this scam. Like I say, I don't have all the details but I remember it being very traumatic for everyone who had been involved.
Please be rational about this: you asked for opinions, and your answer is more than 20 people saying it's a bad idea and nobody saying it's a good idea. Listen to the evidence.
posted by matthew.alexander at 1:31 PM on June 10, 2018 [11 favorites]
Unfortunately, as others have said, you will not get a representative sample of firsthand accounts from current Arbonne consultants, because they can only recruit you (and make money off you) by telling you it’s already helping them achieve their “dreams” of “success.” They need to recruit you and dozens more like you, and then YOU need to find dozens more who haven’t already been recruited, and so on, exponentially.
This is the business-model equivalent of a house of cards, only it’s built from the top down. There is a finite number of cards in a deck. In the world, even.
Your desire to trust in it is making you a very attractive “mark” for people who are already trapped, and it’s making their scripts very seductive to you.
A lot of people I love have fallen for it, too, if not necessarily under this particular brand. All of them have bragged they were finally “reaching their goals!” while they were trying to recruit downlines and spamming everyone they knew about the products for sale.
A few have been candid about why they gave up after about a year, and admitted they were shining it on at the time because they had to recoup their losses, and it didn’t even work. The rest...well, they’ve moved onto other MLMs without explaining why the last one wasn’t all they said it was. And that’s all I can really tell you because I had to unfollow them on Facebook. It was ruining their manners, and the whole thing was painful to watch. These people only invited anyone over socially when they thought they could make money off them. It didn’t make people feel liked or valued, just used.
Three things all of them had in common:
posted by armeowda at 1:54 PM on June 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
This is the business-model equivalent of a house of cards, only it’s built from the top down. There is a finite number of cards in a deck. In the world, even.
Your desire to trust in it is making you a very attractive “mark” for people who are already trapped, and it’s making their scripts very seductive to you.
A lot of people I love have fallen for it, too, if not necessarily under this particular brand. All of them have bragged they were finally “reaching their goals!” while they were trying to recruit downlines and spamming everyone they knew about the products for sale.
A few have been candid about why they gave up after about a year, and admitted they were shining it on at the time because they had to recoup their losses, and it didn’t even work. The rest...well, they’ve moved onto other MLMs without explaining why the last one wasn’t all they said it was. And that’s all I can really tell you because I had to unfollow them on Facebook. It was ruining their manners, and the whole thing was painful to watch. These people only invited anyone over socially when they thought they could make money off them. It didn’t make people feel liked or valued, just used.
Three things all of them had in common:
1) a total lack of business acumen;“You’d be a perfect fit” sounds very flattering, I know, but in this case that’s what it means. Please don’t be seduced. Don’t prove them right.
2) a tone-deafness about how they made other people feel, and the social awkwardness that results from same;
3) a resolute eagerness to disregard all the warnings because they only heard what they wanted to hear.
posted by armeowda at 1:54 PM on June 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'm prefacing this by saying I sell with two companies: Scentsy and Keep Collective. (Tried Advocare, I like some of their products but I'm not a health/fitness leader so that went nowhere...and the sales pitch made me feel "ugh". I got sucked into the leadership sales pitch on that one.)
You have to decided how much you want to put into it, and what exactly do you want out of it. As well as find an upline/director that is perfectly OK with your goals. For me, I really enjoy Scentsy and Keep products and have a smallish group of friends who enjoy it too, so they buy from me. That's enough to keep me active. I don't even try to recruit people to work under me, which keeps me from "promoting up" to the next level (you have to have people under you that actively sell), but I'm OK with that. I could probably do a lot better if I advertised more on social media, but I don't want that to be the only thing people see of me. The best part is that my Directors are perfectly fine with what I'm doing...I told them I'm not going to push things and be their next superstar and they were OK with that (I probably got really really lucky there).
So...if you like their products and want to get whatever discount they offer, AND you think you have people that are willing to buy those products, then it may work if you set a limit as to what you will invest and keep that boundary of not buying in more and more with the promise you can sell the inventory. That's one way people get into a money hole...having to keep inventory on hand or having to buy to stay active even if no one else wants the product. Arbonne is expensive...do a lot of your circle of influence WANT to use products like that? Or do they spend that money on Clinique and Lancome? How many other consultants are in your area? Is your market area saturated? What do they require of you to stay an active consultant? How much do you have to sell/spend, and how often?
Those are just my thoughts. Not every direct selling opportunity is bad, but a lot of them are. People recruit hard because they make a commission off of what you sell, and you have to stay as an active seller in order for them to retain whatever level they earned because you are under them (same with their direct upline), so the pressure they get rolls downhill. Some do better based on what's around you and your location.
Anyways...those are my thoughts.
posted by MultiFaceted at 2:52 PM on June 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
You have to decided how much you want to put into it, and what exactly do you want out of it. As well as find an upline/director that is perfectly OK with your goals. For me, I really enjoy Scentsy and Keep products and have a smallish group of friends who enjoy it too, so they buy from me. That's enough to keep me active. I don't even try to recruit people to work under me, which keeps me from "promoting up" to the next level (you have to have people under you that actively sell), but I'm OK with that. I could probably do a lot better if I advertised more on social media, but I don't want that to be the only thing people see of me. The best part is that my Directors are perfectly fine with what I'm doing...I told them I'm not going to push things and be their next superstar and they were OK with that (I probably got really really lucky there).
So...if you like their products and want to get whatever discount they offer, AND you think you have people that are willing to buy those products, then it may work if you set a limit as to what you will invest and keep that boundary of not buying in more and more with the promise you can sell the inventory. That's one way people get into a money hole...having to keep inventory on hand or having to buy to stay active even if no one else wants the product. Arbonne is expensive...do a lot of your circle of influence WANT to use products like that? Or do they spend that money on Clinique and Lancome? How many other consultants are in your area? Is your market area saturated? What do they require of you to stay an active consultant? How much do you have to sell/spend, and how often?
Those are just my thoughts. Not every direct selling opportunity is bad, but a lot of them are. People recruit hard because they make a commission off of what you sell, and you have to stay as an active seller in order for them to retain whatever level they earned because you are under them (same with their direct upline), so the pressure they get rolls downhill. Some do better based on what's around you and your location.
Anyways...those are my thoughts.
posted by MultiFaceted at 2:52 PM on June 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
If you join because your SIL is a consultant and her cousin is "successful," you are your SIL's downline and making her money, and she is her cousin's downline and making her money. You would create a business relationship that will get tangled in a family web and will never be able to leave because doing so would necessarily involve harming your SIL financially and so on up the line. This is how they get you and keep you, through a feeling of obligation. Your mention that this is a family entreaty makes it much, much worse.
This, so much. When this implodes, it will be so bad for your family. You may already be under some pressure from them now, but saying yes is only going to put off the unpleasantness. There are so many reasons you can cite for not getting involved that are not personal.
posted by BibiRose at 2:56 PM on June 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
This, so much. When this implodes, it will be so bad for your family. You may already be under some pressure from them now, but saying yes is only going to put off the unpleasantness. There are so many reasons you can cite for not getting involved that are not personal.
posted by BibiRose at 2:56 PM on June 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
The link above claiming a distinction between MLM and pyramid schemes is simply a matter of degree. For example it says that if the company charges you 30% for unsold inventory it is a pyramid scheme but if they only screw you out of 20% for unsold inventory, it's legitimate MLM.
Likewise they claim that the difference between a pyramid scheme and MLM is whether the primary purpose is selling products or getting more recruits. This is hardly a distinction. The very name itself, multi-level marketing, indicates that none of them can exist without getting more recruits into their pyramid.
All multi-level marketing organizations are pyramid schemes by definition. The only difference is how quickly you will lose money.
posted by JackFlash at 3:35 PM on June 10, 2018 [11 favorites]
Likewise they claim that the difference between a pyramid scheme and MLM is whether the primary purpose is selling products or getting more recruits. This is hardly a distinction. The very name itself, multi-level marketing, indicates that none of them can exist without getting more recruits into their pyramid.
All multi-level marketing organizations are pyramid schemes by definition. The only difference is how quickly you will lose money.
posted by JackFlash at 3:35 PM on June 10, 2018 [11 favorites]
The people who I knew who did Arbonne are no longer doing it a year later. If you insist on doing a MLM, I'd strongly suggest picking a different company and keeping the family dynamic out of it. Beautycounter at least has (overpriced) products that get reasonable reviews from beauty editors and the products don't have quite as much of the MLM stigma that others like Arbonne, LipSense, Younique, etc have despite also being an MLM. Still, there are better ways to get sales experience if that's what you're chasing.
posted by quince at 3:43 PM on June 10, 2018
posted by quince at 3:43 PM on June 10, 2018
I'm not sure what level she has attained, but Arbonne is her career & after 2 years she had the car - paid for by Arbonne.
As lovecrafty pointed out above, this "free car" scam is just a further indication that this is a slimy business. It isn't a free car. It is a car which is purchased or leased in your name. You are on the hook for all of the payments. All Arbonne is doing is taking your earnings from sales and distribution and instead of writing you a check, is sending your money directly to the lender. If you stop selling, you are responsible for all remaining payments, hundreds of dollars a month for the life of the loan or lease. The car isn't free. You are paying for it with your earnings, deducted from your Arbonne paycheck.
posted by JackFlash at 4:01 PM on June 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
As lovecrafty pointed out above, this "free car" scam is just a further indication that this is a slimy business. It isn't a free car. It is a car which is purchased or leased in your name. You are on the hook for all of the payments. All Arbonne is doing is taking your earnings from sales and distribution and instead of writing you a check, is sending your money directly to the lender. If you stop selling, you are responsible for all remaining payments, hundreds of dollars a month for the life of the loan or lease. The car isn't free. You are paying for it with your earnings, deducted from your Arbonne paycheck.
posted by JackFlash at 4:01 PM on June 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
A lot of people claiming that an MLM is their career are not being truthful. Yeah, a very few people at the top of the pyramid are not lying about it, but everyone else probably is. They are being supported by family, or credit cards, or a combination. There is high pressure to just straight up lie (yes, even to family; yes, even to husbands) about ones success with the company since the only way to really succeed is to have a large downline. You don't get those recruits by telling them you're barely able to recoup your costs, you do it by lying about how fabulously successful you are. A lot of these companies also teach (in their sales seminars) Law of Attraction philosophies that reframe lying as "putting positive energy into the universe" and presenting yourself as the thing you want to be which will somehow magically "manifest" that thing into reality. They explicitly forbid "bad vibes" or criticism because Law of Attraction says that's the only way to fail--to conceded that you may in fact be failing. Think you can't fail and you won't! It's nonsense. Destructive nonsense.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:54 PM on June 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:54 PM on June 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
Oh, also - Arbonne products just aren’t that good and no one I know would ever buy them ($$$) over better drugstore products ($) unless someone was begging/harassing them to.
Please please don’t do this.
posted by tristeza at 6:02 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Please please don’t do this.
posted by tristeza at 6:02 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Something else I was thinking of, in terms of "getting experience" unfortunately the only experience is the experience of being an MLM salesperson. As I said above, these skills aren't applicable in the "real world" of sales due to how the system is structured. If you wanted to go into sales or transition to a different career, having that on your resume would at best be neutral (with your other experience providing balance) but at worst be a red flag that gets you binned with no further consideration. I really hope you're able to find something else to scratch that itch or take your attention that really does enrich your life in a positive way.
posted by amanda at 7:06 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by amanda at 7:06 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Something else I was thinking of, in terms of "getting experience" unfortunately the only experience is the experience of being an MLM salesperson. As I said above, these skills aren't applicable in the "real world" of sales due to how the system is structured. If you wanted to go into sales or transition to a different career, having that on your resume would at best be neutral (with your other experience providing balance) but at worst be a red flag that gets you binned with no further consideration.
Amanda is absolutely 100% right. MLM sales experience is not like regular company sales experience at all. Chances are, "Arbonne" on your resume is more likely to get it round-filed. So many people hate MLMs anyway, that even with transferable experience and skills, a hiring manager might toss your resume because they hate/have had bad experiences with MLM's.
If you want sales experience, retail jobs are easy to get in most areas. A job at WalMart or Target or a local drugstore shouldn't be out of reach even with no prior experience, as they tend to be entry-level jobs. And a Target job does provide transferable skills and experience, and it will get you hired in other companies, unlike a MLM.
So, if you can work outside the home even part-time, shoot for a retail job. If it's "work at home or not at all" then go the Ebay/Etsy/ThredUp sales route - these are real companies and you can put "Ebay Sales" on your resume without risk.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:47 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Amanda is absolutely 100% right. MLM sales experience is not like regular company sales experience at all. Chances are, "Arbonne" on your resume is more likely to get it round-filed. So many people hate MLMs anyway, that even with transferable experience and skills, a hiring manager might toss your resume because they hate/have had bad experiences with MLM's.
If you want sales experience, retail jobs are easy to get in most areas. A job at WalMart or Target or a local drugstore shouldn't be out of reach even with no prior experience, as they tend to be entry-level jobs. And a Target job does provide transferable skills and experience, and it will get you hired in other companies, unlike a MLM.
So, if you can work outside the home even part-time, shoot for a retail job. If it's "work at home or not at all" then go the Ebay/Etsy/ThredUp sales route - these are real companies and you can put "Ebay Sales" on your resume without risk.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:47 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
The car is leased and it gets taken back as soon as you slip on the hefty payments.
Anyway, one thing you could try to scratch this itch is to start a Youtube vlog or podcast and see if you can get sponsors based on your content.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:16 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Anyway, one thing you could try to scratch this itch is to start a Youtube vlog or podcast and see if you can get sponsors based on your content.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:16 AM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
I've been in a different direct sales company for almost 14 years now. Primarily for personal use at the moment, but I do have a dozen or so customers who order a couple three times a year. In my very best sales year, I cleared $11k after expenses. That was strictly from sales. I've never been a top recruiter; at its largest, my team had three whole people on it.
You can learn some sales skills through direct sales. You're not going to learn everything about sales. But you can learn a lot. And if there are enough potential customers in your area, you might even sell a lot.
Keep in mind, though, that sales is more about relationships. Too many people in direct sales push their product down the throats of everyone they meet. Don't be that salesperson. Talk to people. Make friends. Be nice. Be you. Treat other people how you'd want to be treated.
I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. My Memail is always open.
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 7:19 PM on June 11, 2018
You can learn some sales skills through direct sales. You're not going to learn everything about sales. But you can learn a lot. And if there are enough potential customers in your area, you might even sell a lot.
Keep in mind, though, that sales is more about relationships. Too many people in direct sales push their product down the throats of everyone they meet. Don't be that salesperson. Talk to people. Make friends. Be nice. Be you. Treat other people how you'd want to be treated.
I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. My Memail is always open.
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 7:19 PM on June 11, 2018
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posted by warriorqueen at 10:17 AM on June 10, 2018 [4 favorites]