Dealing with the pain of being friend dumped and losing friend group
April 21, 2018 11:52 PM Subscribe
I'm in my early 40s and didn't think it was still possible for me to form bonds with other people. After some bad relationships and some friendships that ended horribly, I turned off the emotional part of my brain that let me care about new people. Reading on the green has made me realize that it's almost impossible for a woman in her 40s to find romance, so I turned off those emotions as well.
I'm part of a large international charitable group and have made a number of quasi-friendships through it. I keep myself emotionally detached as a rule, but do enjoy the work and the people. I expect at any moment that I will find out that people secretly detest me and that I will have to leave. This has happened to me before and I will not tolerate the emotional pain again of finding out that people who I thought cared about me, secretly despised me. I'm not completely lonely. I have a few close friendships with people outside of this group. These friendships are compartmentalized though to avoid the group dynamics where the group decides to turn on one person.
I let my guard down with one person from the group though. He lived overseas at the time and I ended up having a fling with him when I visited. There is some sort of bond between us for a reason I don't understand and I find that I care about him deeply. At the end of my visit he told me that he loved me, but that he couldn't spend any more time around me in person because he didn't have the emotional reserves for a relationship and that he couldn't be friends with me because it would make him want a relationship. I don't want a relationship with him or least not a traditional one. It would never work out for multiple reasons. In the end, I felt hurt that he couldn't be friends with me, but I thought that I would quickly get over it.
Unbeknownst to me, he decided to move to my city. This is causing me massive amounts of anxiety and hurt. It hurts that he refuses to see me. I didn't think I was capable of feeling that type of hurt anymore. Secondarily, this means that he is hanging around my friend group and is able to be a "secondary" with two of my friends. I'm not normally a jealous person, but it makes no sense that he can be with others, but not me. I always thought if a person was poly that it would mean more open mindedness and being able to deal with one's emotions towards other people without having to shun them.
I haven't been able to go to outings or dinners with my friend group because it hurts too much. He's not prohibiting me from going, but I have in the past been the one at group outings that people didn't want to see and it hurt more than I could tolerate to be casually discarded. I can't figure out what I did wrong. I feel like he's lying about loving me and secretly despises me because why else can't he stand to be around me? Is that normally something people do or is it a sign of a sociopath? I've cut off exes in the past just so I could move on, but those were actual long term relationships where we truly loved each other. In this case, it feels like he's being casually cruel to me.
Can anyone understand this type of behavior, where a person you're close to would suddenly cut off friendship because (s)he loves you?
Or...
Have you ever cut someone off because you claimed to love that person? Why did you do it? I cannot understand why I am being treated in this manner.
Are my emotions at all within the range of normal human emotions? I was thinking that if they are outside of normal emotions, that I could find a medical treatment.
Hive mind, have you been in a similar situation and if so, how did you get over it?
Lastly, would you quit the group?
I'm part of a large international charitable group and have made a number of quasi-friendships through it. I keep myself emotionally detached as a rule, but do enjoy the work and the people. I expect at any moment that I will find out that people secretly detest me and that I will have to leave. This has happened to me before and I will not tolerate the emotional pain again of finding out that people who I thought cared about me, secretly despised me. I'm not completely lonely. I have a few close friendships with people outside of this group. These friendships are compartmentalized though to avoid the group dynamics where the group decides to turn on one person.
I let my guard down with one person from the group though. He lived overseas at the time and I ended up having a fling with him when I visited. There is some sort of bond between us for a reason I don't understand and I find that I care about him deeply. At the end of my visit he told me that he loved me, but that he couldn't spend any more time around me in person because he didn't have the emotional reserves for a relationship and that he couldn't be friends with me because it would make him want a relationship. I don't want a relationship with him or least not a traditional one. It would never work out for multiple reasons. In the end, I felt hurt that he couldn't be friends with me, but I thought that I would quickly get over it.
Unbeknownst to me, he decided to move to my city. This is causing me massive amounts of anxiety and hurt. It hurts that he refuses to see me. I didn't think I was capable of feeling that type of hurt anymore. Secondarily, this means that he is hanging around my friend group and is able to be a "secondary" with two of my friends. I'm not normally a jealous person, but it makes no sense that he can be with others, but not me. I always thought if a person was poly that it would mean more open mindedness and being able to deal with one's emotions towards other people without having to shun them.
I haven't been able to go to outings or dinners with my friend group because it hurts too much. He's not prohibiting me from going, but I have in the past been the one at group outings that people didn't want to see and it hurt more than I could tolerate to be casually discarded. I can't figure out what I did wrong. I feel like he's lying about loving me and secretly despises me because why else can't he stand to be around me? Is that normally something people do or is it a sign of a sociopath? I've cut off exes in the past just so I could move on, but those were actual long term relationships where we truly loved each other. In this case, it feels like he's being casually cruel to me.
Can anyone understand this type of behavior, where a person you're close to would suddenly cut off friendship because (s)he loves you?
Or...
Have you ever cut someone off because you claimed to love that person? Why did you do it? I cannot understand why I am being treated in this manner.
Are my emotions at all within the range of normal human emotions? I was thinking that if they are outside of normal emotions, that I could find a medical treatment.
Hive mind, have you been in a similar situation and if so, how did you get over it?
Lastly, would you quit the group?
I feel very sad for you that it feels so tumultuous and uncontrolled, and that you've had such horrible experiences with people before, but I think you need someone closer who you can explain and talk to more in order to get at some other ways of seeing and interacting, that might make you happier in the long run.
posted by Lady Li at 12:28 AM on April 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Lady Li at 12:28 AM on April 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
I think he is treating you they way he is because he’s an asshole. You are not his first victim and you won’t be his last. Please don’t take this one as your problem. Invite some of the group to things but don’t include him.
It will hurt till you accept that you hooked up with a liar who played you. It was not love. It was sex and gaslighting for him, and it sounds like you were being a sincere honest person who got sucked into his bull shit.
Give yourself a break and be glad about dodging a much bigger bullet by trying to be friends with this guy.
posted by cairnoflore at 12:35 AM on April 22, 2018 [33 favorites]
It will hurt till you accept that you hooked up with a liar who played you. It was not love. It was sex and gaslighting for him, and it sounds like you were being a sincere honest person who got sucked into his bull shit.
Give yourself a break and be glad about dodging a much bigger bullet by trying to be friends with this guy.
posted by cairnoflore at 12:35 AM on April 22, 2018 [33 favorites]
Whoa this guy is a jerk. This sure sounds like he is using your insecurities and perspective as a way to say exactly what he needs to do he can write the narrative that he isn’t *really* being a jerk, it’s just that there are reasons! Bandwidth reasons! Bullshit. For whatever reason, he doesn’t want to persue things further, and rather than be a big kid about it he tells you part of what you want to hear so he can escape being the bad guy. It’s also a convienient way to leave the door cracked if he finds a smidge of bandwidth or whatever and wants to see you.
Look at his actions, not his words, cause his mouth is full of bullshit.
Keep in mind that people who are manipulative are really good at abusing other people’s capacity for connection. You have the capacity for a deep connection, and this emotional vampire reflected that so he could get what he wanted from you (sex? Admiration? A sense of control or power? Who knows, jerks be jerks.) Regardless, it’s not your falt and it’s not a failing on your part. He doesn’t despise you. He wanted something from you because it has value, he got it and now he is being a turd. I’m really sorry that this is happening, but please take from it that you have a lot to offer and there are people other than this guy who are capable of seeing it and valuing it.
posted by Blisterlips at 1:17 AM on April 22, 2018 [8 favorites]
Look at his actions, not his words, cause his mouth is full of bullshit.
Keep in mind that people who are manipulative are really good at abusing other people’s capacity for connection. You have the capacity for a deep connection, and this emotional vampire reflected that so he could get what he wanted from you (sex? Admiration? A sense of control or power? Who knows, jerks be jerks.) Regardless, it’s not your falt and it’s not a failing on your part. He doesn’t despise you. He wanted something from you because it has value, he got it and now he is being a turd. I’m really sorry that this is happening, but please take from it that you have a lot to offer and there are people other than this guy who are capable of seeing it and valuing it.
posted by Blisterlips at 1:17 AM on April 22, 2018 [8 favorites]
It is not uncommon for people to end friendships where one or both people have more than platonic feelings for each other and one or both want completely different outcomes from the friendship.
It doesn't make either person a jerk, a user, a manipulator or a sociopath.
Sounds like you are both hurting from something unexpected that happened from a fling that didn't go as planned, and can't or are unable to offer each other what you want from each other.
Why you would reason then from this that all of your friends and this person secretly despise you, I'm unsure...
posted by OnefortheLast at 2:34 AM on April 22, 2018 [15 favorites]
It doesn't make either person a jerk, a user, a manipulator or a sociopath.
Sounds like you are both hurting from something unexpected that happened from a fling that didn't go as planned, and can't or are unable to offer each other what you want from each other.
Why you would reason then from this that all of your friends and this person secretly despise you, I'm unsure...
posted by OnefortheLast at 2:34 AM on April 22, 2018 [15 favorites]
As with everyone above, I can't answer all your questions, because it sounds like a long time in therapy would help with that, but for what it's worth:
* Yes, I have told someone that I could no longer see them as a friend because I loved them and it was too difficult to be just friends. In that case the situation was that he didn't want a committed relationship, so your situation is slightly different, but it's really not that uncommon. Like OnefortheLast, I disagree with people suggesting he's definitely an asshole. I mean, he might be, but he might also just have the self-awareness to have started this, then realised you're not quite on the same page wrt how much you're each emotionally able to commit, and decided to stop things there rather than hurting you further. This kind of thing is painful, but it's just part of life, it doesn't mean that everybody you know "secretly despises" you (and the fact you use that phrase twice, about both your friends and this guy, in circumstances that don't suggest anything of the sort, suggests you've some hugely distorted thinking going on, CBT is one common type of therapy used to address that).
* Sounds like you've discovered it the hard way, but you can't just decide to "turn off" your feelings. They're just gonna keep on coming, the thing you have to do is learn ways of dealing with them. For some people that's CBT, for others it's mindfulness, others still benefit from more general talking therapy to find out more about where those feelings come from and find better ways of relating to them.
* "It's almost impossible for women in their 40s to find romance" is nonsense. It might be different, but I've seen people find love at all ages.
I was thinking that if they are outside of normal emotions, that I could find a medical treatment.
I think you've hit on the solution here, and the treatment is therapy.
posted by penguin pie at 3:54 AM on April 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
* Yes, I have told someone that I could no longer see them as a friend because I loved them and it was too difficult to be just friends. In that case the situation was that he didn't want a committed relationship, so your situation is slightly different, but it's really not that uncommon. Like OnefortheLast, I disagree with people suggesting he's definitely an asshole. I mean, he might be, but he might also just have the self-awareness to have started this, then realised you're not quite on the same page wrt how much you're each emotionally able to commit, and decided to stop things there rather than hurting you further. This kind of thing is painful, but it's just part of life, it doesn't mean that everybody you know "secretly despises" you (and the fact you use that phrase twice, about both your friends and this guy, in circumstances that don't suggest anything of the sort, suggests you've some hugely distorted thinking going on, CBT is one common type of therapy used to address that).
* Sounds like you've discovered it the hard way, but you can't just decide to "turn off" your feelings. They're just gonna keep on coming, the thing you have to do is learn ways of dealing with them. For some people that's CBT, for others it's mindfulness, others still benefit from more general talking therapy to find out more about where those feelings come from and find better ways of relating to them.
* "It's almost impossible for women in their 40s to find romance" is nonsense. It might be different, but I've seen people find love at all ages.
I was thinking that if they are outside of normal emotions, that I could find a medical treatment.
I think you've hit on the solution here, and the treatment is therapy.
posted by penguin pie at 3:54 AM on April 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
Any variation on the old "I'm not interested in/ready for a relationship" chestnut is a very common excuse conflict avoidant people use to extricate themselves from involvement with other people. He doesn't necessarily have to be cluster B to be conflict avoidant, but his actions do suggest that at a minimum he is emotionally unavailable, and that is also very common. I've found Baggage Reclaim to be really helpful in identifying and dealing with these folks.
posted by jazzbaby at 4:01 AM on April 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by jazzbaby at 4:01 AM on April 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
I’ve had two people use the “I’m not ready for a relationship” line on me, and both times it meant “I’m not into you, but I suspect you might be too emotionally fragile for me to be blunt about it.” Both times, I didn’t get it. Both times, I was needy and clingy and if that wasn’t what made them decide to call it off in the first place, it was definitely what burned the bridges for good.
There are other ways this scenario can be interpreted. But it’s common for people who are somewhat starved for companionship to act in maladaptive ways, to get sort of high on a new friendship or relationship and chase that high, to view it in terms of having a friend without thinking about being a friend. And it gets into a sucky spiral where people leave you, so you hold on a little too hard to the ones who stay, until eventually they leave too. Does this sound familiar?
The pattern is unlearnable, but it takes time and self-examination (therapy can help) and you sometimes turn over a few stones with gross stuff underneath - in retrospect, I certainly wouldn’t have hung out with the version of me that had trouble keeping friends or boyfriends, and stuff that seemed like a total mystery to me at the time is now glaringly obvious. It doesn’t mean you’re broken or unlovable, it just means you may have to relearn some habits.
Lastly, there’s some weird conflation going on in your question. Romantic and platonic relationships share many elements, but they’re not the same, and your question seems to lump them together. Going from friendship to dating/flings, only to have it not work out, isn’t the same as being friend-dumped; the usual advice is that once things take a turn for the romantic or sexual, returning to a platonic friendship is inadvisable if not impossible. And it’s not like you’ve been kicked out of your friend group; you’re pulling away from them because of a breakup - which is not a bad idea, but it doesn’t mean anyone despises you (or even dislikes you). That’s part of the risk of dating a friend: if it doesn’t work out, you might lose the friend, and if you were both part of the same group, you might have to pull away from the group. Not because anything’s wrong with you, but because there are raw emotions on both sides and things could get uncomfortable. There’s a part of your brain that’s interpreting this as evidence that they hate you and you can’t keep friendships, rather than a common (if crappy) consequence of getting romantically involved with someone in your friend group, and I think therapy could help you get some perspective on that too.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:10 AM on April 22, 2018 [30 favorites]
There are other ways this scenario can be interpreted. But it’s common for people who are somewhat starved for companionship to act in maladaptive ways, to get sort of high on a new friendship or relationship and chase that high, to view it in terms of having a friend without thinking about being a friend. And it gets into a sucky spiral where people leave you, so you hold on a little too hard to the ones who stay, until eventually they leave too. Does this sound familiar?
The pattern is unlearnable, but it takes time and self-examination (therapy can help) and you sometimes turn over a few stones with gross stuff underneath - in retrospect, I certainly wouldn’t have hung out with the version of me that had trouble keeping friends or boyfriends, and stuff that seemed like a total mystery to me at the time is now glaringly obvious. It doesn’t mean you’re broken or unlovable, it just means you may have to relearn some habits.
Lastly, there’s some weird conflation going on in your question. Romantic and platonic relationships share many elements, but they’re not the same, and your question seems to lump them together. Going from friendship to dating/flings, only to have it not work out, isn’t the same as being friend-dumped; the usual advice is that once things take a turn for the romantic or sexual, returning to a platonic friendship is inadvisable if not impossible. And it’s not like you’ve been kicked out of your friend group; you’re pulling away from them because of a breakup - which is not a bad idea, but it doesn’t mean anyone despises you (or even dislikes you). That’s part of the risk of dating a friend: if it doesn’t work out, you might lose the friend, and if you were both part of the same group, you might have to pull away from the group. Not because anything’s wrong with you, but because there are raw emotions on both sides and things could get uncomfortable. There’s a part of your brain that’s interpreting this as evidence that they hate you and you can’t keep friendships, rather than a common (if crappy) consequence of getting romantically involved with someone in your friend group, and I think therapy could help you get some perspective on that too.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:10 AM on April 22, 2018 [30 favorites]
It sounds like you’ve experienced a fair amount of interpersonal trauma, and I’m going to guess that maybe that goes farther back than this question suggests.
I think you should find a trauma-informed or trauma-specializing therapist. (A generic therapist likely won’t have up-to-date knowledge or tools to help you with interpersonal or developmental trauma, and sometimes they can make things worse.)
posted by schadenfrau at 6:18 AM on April 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
I think you should find a trauma-informed or trauma-specializing therapist. (A generic therapist likely won’t have up-to-date knowledge or tools to help you with interpersonal or developmental trauma, and sometimes they can make things worse.)
posted by schadenfrau at 6:18 AM on April 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'm not normally a jealous person, but it makes no sense that he can be with others, but not me. I always thought if a person was poly that it would mean more open mindedness and being able to deal with one's emotions towards other people without having to shun them.
All you need to know is that he doesn't want to be friends with you anymore. It doesn't have to make sense to you. His choices about who he wants to be friends have to do with him and not you. It doesn't mean you did something wrong or that there's anything wrong with you. Being poly doesn't mean that you're open to dating whoever wants to date you. Poly people have boundaries too.
Sometimes people cut off relationships because they think that the other person is bad for them, or that they're bad for the other person. Especially if one person is way more emotionally attached/invested than the other. In these instances you can't really be friends. And in these instances it is totally appropriate for someone to set those boundaries and totally inappropriate for someone else to push back against those boundaries.
Reading on the green has made me realize that it's almost impossible for a woman in her 40s to find romance
Reading on the green has made me realize that it's completely normal for anyone in their 40s, including women, to find romance.
posted by Polychrome at 6:30 AM on April 22, 2018 [21 favorites]
All you need to know is that he doesn't want to be friends with you anymore. It doesn't have to make sense to you. His choices about who he wants to be friends have to do with him and not you. It doesn't mean you did something wrong or that there's anything wrong with you. Being poly doesn't mean that you're open to dating whoever wants to date you. Poly people have boundaries too.
Sometimes people cut off relationships because they think that the other person is bad for them, or that they're bad for the other person. Especially if one person is way more emotionally attached/invested than the other. In these instances you can't really be friends. And in these instances it is totally appropriate for someone to set those boundaries and totally inappropriate for someone else to push back against those boundaries.
Reading on the green has made me realize that it's almost impossible for a woman in her 40s to find romance
Reading on the green has made me realize that it's completely normal for anyone in their 40s, including women, to find romance.
posted by Polychrome at 6:30 AM on April 22, 2018 [21 favorites]
I would start initiating more social events with people you choose and invite, rather than attending those that other people organize which may include him. I know it can be scary, but try to keep in mind that if people turn down your invitations, it doesn't mean they don't like you; people have a lot going on in their lives and it's more likely that it just doesn't fit on that day.
Have you been in contact with this ex since he moved to your city? If not, it's possible that you two could develop a less fraught acquaintanceship if you had a conversation. Obviously only do this if you have the emotional support you need to get through it.
posted by metasarah at 6:52 AM on April 22, 2018
Have you been in contact with this ex since he moved to your city? If not, it's possible that you two could develop a less fraught acquaintanceship if you had a conversation. Obviously only do this if you have the emotional support you need to get through it.
posted by metasarah at 6:52 AM on April 22, 2018
Reading on the green has made me realize that it's almost impossible for a woman in her 40s to find romance, so I turned off those emotions as well.
I know there are all those sappy stories about people in their later years finding love but please don't think you have to wait another 10 years to be the prime age for romance; you don't.
nothing you read here can teach you anything except that people who all think they're right can disagree about anything and everything. please don't believe anything people say on this website that validates your worst fears and lowers your sense of self-worth. every answer is some jerk's opinion and no more.
your fling with this guy should prove to you the opposite, that you're neither too young nor too old to find romance. it's just that it's the exact same kind of confusing, painful romance with a self-centered prick that women twenty years younger than you also endure. the only difference being in your 40s should make is that it should be easier to see when the problem is him, not you. feeling badly about yourself in general will make that difficult but that's not age-related.
impossible to tell from a distance whether he really loved you and is doing this weird child-like flight from love, or whether he felt no more than casual attraction/affection and is a weasel who thought a flattering lie would make you feel better than ghosting without explanation. whatever the real story, it doesn't reflect on your worth. and the worst case is that he didn't love you, only liked you; there's no reason to think he hates you. Don't let him take away your social circle, he doesn't deserve them more than you do and he may retreat himself if you refuse to disappear. I don't discount how difficult it will be to show up, but I think you are suffering either way.
and yes, your emotions are within the realm of normal. depression, pain from loss, and unhappiness are normal. you can seek medical treatment for normal problems when they are very bad, and I think it would help you to do so.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:58 AM on April 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
I know there are all those sappy stories about people in their later years finding love but please don't think you have to wait another 10 years to be the prime age for romance; you don't.
nothing you read here can teach you anything except that people who all think they're right can disagree about anything and everything. please don't believe anything people say on this website that validates your worst fears and lowers your sense of self-worth. every answer is some jerk's opinion and no more.
your fling with this guy should prove to you the opposite, that you're neither too young nor too old to find romance. it's just that it's the exact same kind of confusing, painful romance with a self-centered prick that women twenty years younger than you also endure. the only difference being in your 40s should make is that it should be easier to see when the problem is him, not you. feeling badly about yourself in general will make that difficult but that's not age-related.
impossible to tell from a distance whether he really loved you and is doing this weird child-like flight from love, or whether he felt no more than casual attraction/affection and is a weasel who thought a flattering lie would make you feel better than ghosting without explanation. whatever the real story, it doesn't reflect on your worth. and the worst case is that he didn't love you, only liked you; there's no reason to think he hates you. Don't let him take away your social circle, he doesn't deserve them more than you do and he may retreat himself if you refuse to disappear. I don't discount how difficult it will be to show up, but I think you are suffering either way.
and yes, your emotions are within the realm of normal. depression, pain from loss, and unhappiness are normal. you can seek medical treatment for normal problems when they are very bad, and I think it would help you to do so.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:58 AM on April 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
Ugh, like, I have definitely experienced the flight of two man-children into ridiculous avoidant behaviors because they loved me and couldn’t deal with loving me - like in both cases they were like “I want you to be my wife but I’m not ready to settle down with a wife” and it was terrible, but also man-children who are not ready to explain that they don’t love you also say “I love you” to women when it’s not warranted so they can avoid conflict and it is also terrible. The only constant is that this guy is a man child and you are better off without him.
Point of clarification: is he intimating that he doesn’t want to see you, or are you the only one who doesn’t want to see him?
posted by corb at 7:05 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Point of clarification: is he intimating that he doesn’t want to see you, or are you the only one who doesn’t want to see him?
posted by corb at 7:05 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Have you experienced trauma? Because you remind me of myself in my late teens/early twenties, when I was living with untreated PTSD and attempting to be a "normal person".
If I had to say what happened here I'd say, in plain language, you and this guy hooked up, he gave you a very common line to break things off because he could sense it meant more to you than him, and now he is trying to avoid you because, unfortunately, that's how it goes with most hook-ups. I wouldn't say this makes him a horrible human; it just makes him very, very typical. That's probably very disappointing to you and I'm sorry.
What is not typical is your response to his very common, run of the mill behavior. Your level of hurt and feeling of betrayal and, if I may, shame over this experience is clearly very deep and disproportionate to the length and true depth of this brief "fling", as you yourself describe it.
This feeling you talk about? "There is some sort of bond between us for a reason I don't understand and I find that I care about him deeply."? This resonated really strongly with me because this is what I, too, felt with people before I dealt with my trauma and PTSD. I identified this feeling as deep love and/or deep caring, when, in actuality, it was familiar feeling of a bond with someone who was not careful or loving with me at all. The feeling of finding someone who treated me exactly the way I feared being treated - poorly, carelessly, maybe even emotionally violently - that echoed or mirrored the only "love" experience I knew. This feeling was a call back to a time of emotional fragility on the part of my heart and mind from long before, a hope that I might fix the relationship or do it over again correctly, in the present, and heal a long open wound.
To be honest? The way you describe yourself now, as a forty year old person, is very sad to me. In no way should you consign your very real and hugely important emotional life to the garbage bin of your personal history. It's not inevitable for you that you will never love anyone and no one will ever love you and you cannot have real personal relationships. What is inevitable, though, is that, if you don't get some help in a therapeutic setting with someone you can trust and bond with, you will repeat this same kind of lop-sided, disappointing relationship over and over and over again. You don't deserve that. You are capable of loving and being loved. But you need someone to help you.
Take heart; it takes time to develop and strengthen muscles. Or learn how to play the piano. To go from simple addition to quadratic equations. No one does those things entirely alone and they all take time and care. You deserve that kind of care and I hope you find it. Good luck to you.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 7:22 AM on April 22, 2018 [28 favorites]
If I had to say what happened here I'd say, in plain language, you and this guy hooked up, he gave you a very common line to break things off because he could sense it meant more to you than him, and now he is trying to avoid you because, unfortunately, that's how it goes with most hook-ups. I wouldn't say this makes him a horrible human; it just makes him very, very typical. That's probably very disappointing to you and I'm sorry.
What is not typical is your response to his very common, run of the mill behavior. Your level of hurt and feeling of betrayal and, if I may, shame over this experience is clearly very deep and disproportionate to the length and true depth of this brief "fling", as you yourself describe it.
This feeling you talk about? "There is some sort of bond between us for a reason I don't understand and I find that I care about him deeply."? This resonated really strongly with me because this is what I, too, felt with people before I dealt with my trauma and PTSD. I identified this feeling as deep love and/or deep caring, when, in actuality, it was familiar feeling of a bond with someone who was not careful or loving with me at all. The feeling of finding someone who treated me exactly the way I feared being treated - poorly, carelessly, maybe even emotionally violently - that echoed or mirrored the only "love" experience I knew. This feeling was a call back to a time of emotional fragility on the part of my heart and mind from long before, a hope that I might fix the relationship or do it over again correctly, in the present, and heal a long open wound.
To be honest? The way you describe yourself now, as a forty year old person, is very sad to me. In no way should you consign your very real and hugely important emotional life to the garbage bin of your personal history. It's not inevitable for you that you will never love anyone and no one will ever love you and you cannot have real personal relationships. What is inevitable, though, is that, if you don't get some help in a therapeutic setting with someone you can trust and bond with, you will repeat this same kind of lop-sided, disappointing relationship over and over and over again. You don't deserve that. You are capable of loving and being loved. But you need someone to help you.
Take heart; it takes time to develop and strengthen muscles. Or learn how to play the piano. To go from simple addition to quadratic equations. No one does those things entirely alone and they all take time and care. You deserve that kind of care and I hope you find it. Good luck to you.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 7:22 AM on April 22, 2018 [28 favorites]
I keep myself emotionally detached as a rule, but do enjoy the work and the people. I expect at any moment that I will find out that people secretly detest me and that I will have to leave.
If he really picked up on this after you guys hooked up, this might explain why he wanted to end things, even if he really cares about you. A lot of people are uneasy about getting serious with someone who has the type of attitudes towards interpersonal relationships that you described in your post.
posted by blerghamot at 7:29 AM on April 22, 2018 [12 favorites]
If he really picked up on this after you guys hooked up, this might explain why he wanted to end things, even if he really cares about you. A lot of people are uneasy about getting serious with someone who has the type of attitudes towards interpersonal relationships that you described in your post.
posted by blerghamot at 7:29 AM on April 22, 2018 [12 favorites]
You and this guy had a brief connection and hooked up, then for whatever reason, he didn't want to pursue it and didn't want to seem like the bad guy by telling you so directly. He's not necessarily an evil jerk but he is cowardly and selfish. I also think he never really was your friend in the true sense, and might have taken advantage of your loneliness.
Sadly, this stuff has happened to many of us and there's no way it doesn't hurt. That's very normal. But, I think you'd get more mileage out of tackling your loneliness rather than fixating on this one guy. A good therapist can definitely help you identify some of the patterns and self-defeating beliefs that are holding you back.
(For example, the idea that women in their forties can't find romance just isn't true: I met my Lovely Boyfriend in my early forties after decades of relatively superficial relationships.)
posted by rpfields at 7:55 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sadly, this stuff has happened to many of us and there's no way it doesn't hurt. That's very normal. But, I think you'd get more mileage out of tackling your loneliness rather than fixating on this one guy. A good therapist can definitely help you identify some of the patterns and self-defeating beliefs that are holding you back.
(For example, the idea that women in their forties can't find romance just isn't true: I met my Lovely Boyfriend in my early forties after decades of relatively superficial relationships.)
posted by rpfields at 7:55 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Can anyone understand this type of behavior, where a person you're close to would suddenly cut off friendship because (s)he loves you?
Yes. Being around someone I'm in love with who doesn't want a relationship with me is just toxic for me. Every time I see them the wound is ripped wide open again and I am in so much pain. I need time away from them to heal.
I wouldn't quit the group but I'd start exploring some other groups - maybe take some classes or look at other volunteer opportunities. And as others have suggested above, invite folks from the group to do things without him.
I'm over 40 and yes, it's hard to find someone but it's not impossible. I've known lots of people who did it. Like you I gave up for a while but I'm in therapy talking about my relationship patterns. I'm working on building good friendships for now. When I feel up to it I plan to attempt dating again.
posted by bunderful at 7:55 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes. Being around someone I'm in love with who doesn't want a relationship with me is just toxic for me. Every time I see them the wound is ripped wide open again and I am in so much pain. I need time away from them to heal.
I wouldn't quit the group but I'd start exploring some other groups - maybe take some classes or look at other volunteer opportunities. And as others have suggested above, invite folks from the group to do things without him.
I'm over 40 and yes, it's hard to find someone but it's not impossible. I've known lots of people who did it. Like you I gave up for a while but I'm in therapy talking about my relationship patterns. I'm working on building good friendships for now. When I feel up to it I plan to attempt dating again.
posted by bunderful at 7:55 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Most adults are way too busy to hang out with people they secretly despise. So it is vanishingly unlikely your friends or even this guy feel that way about you.
The guy probably liked you and enjoyed the fling, but sensed you were falling for him, and that you were more vulnerable, didn't want to be that committed to you, so he verbally exaggerated his affection (turned "like" into "love") and broke it off so he wouldn't break your heart.
He certainly doesn't despise you- why would he? He likely doesn't love you, he probably just thought you were cool and attractive and wanted some fun sex and easy no-strings dating and he correctly evaluated that this wouldn't work with you since your feelings for him were developing.
My guess is that he likes you but not enough to commit to dating you. The other people he's dating are "simpler" for him. This is a really normal thing to have happen in dating, the main part that sucks is that you still see him around. The best way to get over him is to have another fling(s) with someone else.
Your self talk is VERY distorted. Thinking people despise you is so extreme it's actually kind of outrageous. Despising is just not how most people operate.
I really think therapy would help you understand the roots of, and break these patterns- they are really harming you. I feel for you and wish you all the best.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:56 AM on April 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
The guy probably liked you and enjoyed the fling, but sensed you were falling for him, and that you were more vulnerable, didn't want to be that committed to you, so he verbally exaggerated his affection (turned "like" into "love") and broke it off so he wouldn't break your heart.
He certainly doesn't despise you- why would he? He likely doesn't love you, he probably just thought you were cool and attractive and wanted some fun sex and easy no-strings dating and he correctly evaluated that this wouldn't work with you since your feelings for him were developing.
My guess is that he likes you but not enough to commit to dating you. The other people he's dating are "simpler" for him. This is a really normal thing to have happen in dating, the main part that sucks is that you still see him around. The best way to get over him is to have another fling(s) with someone else.
Your self talk is VERY distorted. Thinking people despise you is so extreme it's actually kind of outrageous. Despising is just not how most people operate.
I really think therapy would help you understand the roots of, and break these patterns- they are really harming you. I feel for you and wish you all the best.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:56 AM on April 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
So, reading all of this--you know, I might not want to be your friend right now, either.
But that doesn't mean I hate you or I think you're a worthless person who doesn't deserve friends, okay? What it means is that your propensity for thinking in those sorts of terms is likely to make you emotionally exhausting for people who have not necessarily already signed up to help you process all of that. It's great when friends can help you with all of that, but if you break your leg, you need to go to the doctor, not show up on your friend's doorstep with that, and the same is true when you're dealing with emotional issues of this weight. I don't think your feelings themselves are too far outside the realm of normal, but your processing or lack thereof seems to be. Most people have modes in between "deep feelings about somebody" and "completely disengaging from those feelings".
I really agree that you need a therapist for this, but if for some reason you can't access that right now, you might look at a book called Calming the Emotional Storm. I'm not saying you're necessarily borderline--I read it basically to just augment CBT stuff I'd already worked on with therapists to help manage my anxiety. This is the kind of thing where, like, yes, you are overreacting, but not in the sense of "just calm down"--regulating those reactions takes practice and for some people it does take some outside help.
posted by Sequence at 8:32 AM on April 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
But that doesn't mean I hate you or I think you're a worthless person who doesn't deserve friends, okay? What it means is that your propensity for thinking in those sorts of terms is likely to make you emotionally exhausting for people who have not necessarily already signed up to help you process all of that. It's great when friends can help you with all of that, but if you break your leg, you need to go to the doctor, not show up on your friend's doorstep with that, and the same is true when you're dealing with emotional issues of this weight. I don't think your feelings themselves are too far outside the realm of normal, but your processing or lack thereof seems to be. Most people have modes in between "deep feelings about somebody" and "completely disengaging from those feelings".
I really agree that you need a therapist for this, but if for some reason you can't access that right now, you might look at a book called Calming the Emotional Storm. I'm not saying you're necessarily borderline--I read it basically to just augment CBT stuff I'd already worked on with therapists to help manage my anxiety. This is the kind of thing where, like, yes, you are overreacting, but not in the sense of "just calm down"--regulating those reactions takes practice and for some people it does take some outside help.
posted by Sequence at 8:32 AM on April 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
I have spent a lot of emotional energy trying to figure out *why* a man left, and in retrospect it was a waste. It doesn’t matter why. It doesn’t really matter if he actually loved you or was just stringing you along. Your worth does not depend on him. It’s okay to feel hurt and sad and confused right now - as much as you’ve tried to shut down your emotions, you are still human. But also know that these feelings will pass.
In your shoes, I would not drop out of your friend group. I would try to make plans with small groups of people that don’t include him. In time, it will become less painful and you might even be able to be in the same room as him some
day.
Is there a friend in the group you can talk to about this? Sometimes a heart to heart with a friend helps put things in perspective so they seem like less of a catastrophe.
posted by mai at 8:37 AM on April 22, 2018
In your shoes, I would not drop out of your friend group. I would try to make plans with small groups of people that don’t include him. In time, it will become less painful and you might even be able to be in the same room as him some
day.
Is there a friend in the group you can talk to about this? Sometimes a heart to heart with a friend helps put things in perspective so they seem like less of a catastrophe.
posted by mai at 8:37 AM on April 22, 2018
What is not typical is your response to his very common, run of the mill behavior
Telling someone you love them but cannot be with them because of mysterious tragic Reasons as a line may be common with the straights (I have no idea), but let’s not call it normal. It’s extremely shitty and immature, the sort of line designed to leave just enough romantic hope. I mean it is literally a romance trope. As a general rule, if it is a trope in romance novels, it is a giant flag in real life.
Assuming it’s true, an adult would say something like, “I may love you, but I can tell we aren’t compatible in ways that are really important to me, and this won’t work. It will be too hard for me to be around you as a friend.”
Or whatever. No romantic declaration, no unnecessary mystery, no cape twirling disappearance.
I don’t know from OP’s post if this was really a line — it could just have been the truth — but whoa I am agog at the people who are like, “oh ‘I love you but I cannot be with you for Reasons and now I must disappear forever’ is a totally common line when you want to avoid confrontation.” That’s awful.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:47 AM on April 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
Telling someone you love them but cannot be with them because of mysterious tragic Reasons as a line may be common with the straights (I have no idea), but let’s not call it normal. It’s extremely shitty and immature, the sort of line designed to leave just enough romantic hope. I mean it is literally a romance trope. As a general rule, if it is a trope in romance novels, it is a giant flag in real life.
Assuming it’s true, an adult would say something like, “I may love you, but I can tell we aren’t compatible in ways that are really important to me, and this won’t work. It will be too hard for me to be around you as a friend.”
Or whatever. No romantic declaration, no unnecessary mystery, no cape twirling disappearance.
I don’t know from OP’s post if this was really a line — it could just have been the truth — but whoa I am agog at the people who are like, “oh ‘I love you but I cannot be with you for Reasons and now I must disappear forever’ is a totally common line when you want to avoid confrontation.” That’s awful.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:47 AM on April 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
I spent years in talk therapy, which was good for grief but not a whole lot else. EMDR therapy has made a real difference in just a month. If you can find a good therapist licensed for EMDR therapy, that could possibly help you getting over the hurt. I hope you feel better soon.
posted by Issithe at 9:35 AM on April 22, 2018
posted by Issithe at 9:35 AM on April 22, 2018
I expect at any moment that I will find out that people secretly detest me and that I will have to leave.
Agreeing with everyone who's suggesting therapy, or any other way to work on yourself and developing truly intimate friendships rather than keeping yourself detached. I don't think it's helpful to focus on this man, and I don't agree that there's evidence here that he's an "asshole." Could he have done a better job of ending the fling? Sure. It sounds like he probably wasn't honest, and that sucks. But since things ended, it's not unusual that he's not trying to spend time with you now. I think you should direct your energy towards yourself, not him. You say you've "turned off the emotional part of my brain that let me care about new people" in general. That's not healthy. You talk about missing your "friend" group now, but it also sounds like you didn't really let them in as friends.
posted by pinochiette at 9:46 AM on April 22, 2018
Agreeing with everyone who's suggesting therapy, or any other way to work on yourself and developing truly intimate friendships rather than keeping yourself detached. I don't think it's helpful to focus on this man, and I don't agree that there's evidence here that he's an "asshole." Could he have done a better job of ending the fling? Sure. It sounds like he probably wasn't honest, and that sucks. But since things ended, it's not unusual that he's not trying to spend time with you now. I think you should direct your energy towards yourself, not him. You say you've "turned off the emotional part of my brain that let me care about new people" in general. That's not healthy. You talk about missing your "friend" group now, but it also sounds like you didn't really let them in as friends.
posted by pinochiette at 9:46 AM on April 22, 2018
> but whoa I am agog at the people who are like, “oh ‘I love you but I cannot be with you for Reasons and now I must disappear forever’ is a totally common line when you want to avoid confrontation.” That’s awful.
It is totally awful and it's not ok.
But it also happens quite a lot.
I've had at least three different people tell me some minor variation of it, like
"I was falling in love with you too fast so I ghosted you",
or "After our intense summer fling I could easily see us getting married but I'm not ready to get married so I ignored your messages for two months"
or "I have really special intense feelings for you but I can't commit to being your partner"
....so it is kind of "normal" meaning "frequent". I don't think people mean to excuse his behaviour- just to normalize it so OP doesn't take it so personally- it is a thing that happens when people take the easy/inconsiderate way out of an entanglement.
PS, Anonymous, none of those people despised me... in fact a few months later, when Tinder failed them, ALL THREE OF THEM slid back into my texts late at night asking how I was doing and if I wanted to give it another go. This guy might do that too. Be ready to say no, food never tastes better when it's been regurgitated.
An easy way to help yourself do this is to change his name in your phone to a directive that will help you make the correct split-second decision when the phone beeps, so instead of getting a call from "Dave" the call comes from "DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THIS TOXIC PERSON"
posted by pseudostrabismus at 10:15 AM on April 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
It is totally awful and it's not ok.
But it also happens quite a lot.
I've had at least three different people tell me some minor variation of it, like
"I was falling in love with you too fast so I ghosted you",
or "After our intense summer fling I could easily see us getting married but I'm not ready to get married so I ignored your messages for two months"
or "I have really special intense feelings for you but I can't commit to being your partner"
....so it is kind of "normal" meaning "frequent". I don't think people mean to excuse his behaviour- just to normalize it so OP doesn't take it so personally- it is a thing that happens when people take the easy/inconsiderate way out of an entanglement.
PS, Anonymous, none of those people despised me... in fact a few months later, when Tinder failed them, ALL THREE OF THEM slid back into my texts late at night asking how I was doing and if I wanted to give it another go. This guy might do that too. Be ready to say no, food never tastes better when it's been regurgitated.
An easy way to help yourself do this is to change his name in your phone to a directive that will help you make the correct split-second decision when the phone beeps, so instead of getting a call from "Dave" the call comes from "DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THIS TOXIC PERSON"
posted by pseudostrabismus at 10:15 AM on April 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
Hey, I'd like to suggest giving CODA a try if you decide the pain and loneliness of walling most people off and then getting deeply attached to unavailable people becomes too much. The only requirement for membership is a desire to develop healthy, loving relationships.
posted by windykites at 10:44 AM on April 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by windykites at 10:44 AM on April 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
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This thread is closed to new comments.
Your starting point (turned off my ability to care about people) and extreme binary thinking (loves or despises, not conflicted or guilty or regretful or just-wanted-a-fling) says to me that you have a lot of pain and fear in how you deal with emotions that's making it hard for you to engage in and understand interpersonal relationships, at a more basic level than I can help with over the internet.
posted by Lady Li at 12:25 AM on April 22, 2018 [79 favorites]