How do you manage EXTREME frustration?
April 10, 2018 7:41 PM Subscribe
How do you manage the worst government bureaucracy?
Due to life circumstances, I've been unwillingly thrown into what will probably be required, life-long engagement with the worst level of government bureaucracy. Think having to deal with life insurance for a serious, chronic illness, or Medicare, or being trapped at the DMV forever. Sort of like hell. I'm hip to the whole "document, document, document" and "advocate, advocate, advocate", but I'm literally on week one and feeling like screaming into a pillow - or worse yet, the phone, or possibly in the near future, at someone in person. I'd really rather not do any of those things.
From reading other posts, I know that many people on the Green have had to deal with terrible bureaucracies and hassle and frustration. I'd love to know how you've managed it. This is honestly the worst I've ever experienced and I need some serious coping mechanisms. HALP!!!
Due to life circumstances, I've been unwillingly thrown into what will probably be required, life-long engagement with the worst level of government bureaucracy. Think having to deal with life insurance for a serious, chronic illness, or Medicare, or being trapped at the DMV forever. Sort of like hell. I'm hip to the whole "document, document, document" and "advocate, advocate, advocate", but I'm literally on week one and feeling like screaming into a pillow - or worse yet, the phone, or possibly in the near future, at someone in person. I'd really rather not do any of those things.
From reading other posts, I know that many people on the Green have had to deal with terrible bureaucracies and hassle and frustration. I'd love to know how you've managed it. This is honestly the worst I've ever experienced and I need some serious coping mechanisms. HALP!!!
Be nice to the people you interact with, as in the most pleasant and appreciative person they will talk with all week. Make note of their names, and at the end of a call, ask for their supervisor's contact info so you can let them know how much they've helped you, and then follow up.
Just because you've got to deal with bureaucracy doesn't mean it has to hurt. There is often a lot of leeway in how helpful a bureaucrat can be: give them good reason to make an extra effort for you. Good luck!
posted by Scram at 9:29 PM on April 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
Just because you've got to deal with bureaucracy doesn't mean it has to hurt. There is often a lot of leeway in how helpful a bureaucrat can be: give them good reason to make an extra effort for you. Good luck!
posted by Scram at 9:29 PM on April 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
If it's any consolation, I worked for a (notoriously bureaucratic) state university for over a decade and that was amateur hour compared to the larger state and federal bureaucracy I deal with now.
In addition to the advice above I'd say it can be useful to learn the "hacks" that might ease some of your interactions with the bureaucracy. I've learned, for instance, that the best time to call my state's Medicaid office is just after they open in the morning, because the hold time is only a few minutes at that hour. Sometimes the random customer service rep you get connected to will be willing/able to give you a direct phone number or the name of a specific person to ask for.
posted by camyram at 9:37 PM on April 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
In addition to the advice above I'd say it can be useful to learn the "hacks" that might ease some of your interactions with the bureaucracy. I've learned, for instance, that the best time to call my state's Medicaid office is just after they open in the morning, because the hold time is only a few minutes at that hour. Sometimes the random customer service rep you get connected to will be willing/able to give you a direct phone number or the name of a specific person to ask for.
posted by camyram at 9:37 PM on April 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
My approach to dealing with bureaucracy:
- Before and during I tell myself it may seem stupid and random to me, but to them everything is exactly as it has been, should be and will be.
- If I feel I'm losing my calm, I tell myself going down that road is drinking poison that will have no effect on them.
- I assume 2 things. First is their job is so mind numbing and soul killing that the best part of their day is to provoke a reaction. Second is my reacting only encourages them to make it worse for me.
posted by Homer42 at 9:47 PM on April 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
- Before and during I tell myself it may seem stupid and random to me, but to them everything is exactly as it has been, should be and will be.
- If I feel I'm losing my calm, I tell myself going down that road is drinking poison that will have no effect on them.
- I assume 2 things. First is their job is so mind numbing and soul killing that the best part of their day is to provoke a reaction. Second is my reacting only encourages them to make it worse for me.
posted by Homer42 at 9:47 PM on April 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is a significant part of my life. This may not be encouraging, but for me the best coping strategies are success, sheer fucking stubbornness, and cat videos.
So: being nicer than the person I'm talking to, knowing the system better than the people who make it, trying to anticipate the upcoming assholery of the people who make it, & sometimes not being nice. When people have discretion about whether or not to do something, it can be helpful to know what they want. If it's feeling like they are smart, saving money, successfully gatekeeping, not wanting to get fired - that can be useful.
I give people deadlines. If they don't answer when I ask when I should check in on something they're supposed to do, I tell them when I'll check in. And then I do. And then I keep doing it.
In terms of bureaucratic victories - the biggest contributing factor (inside of my control) is often a toss up between being prepared and being absolutely unrelenting. But in an unshakeably calm, clearly not taking no for an answer, immovable object kind of way.
For cat videos: the longer videos from Big Cat Rescue in Florida are usually super relaxing for me. If you might enjoy sleeping tigers, and I'm still really surprised at how much I do, I recommend the tiger lake livecam.
posted by Verba Volant at 10:51 PM on April 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
So: being nicer than the person I'm talking to, knowing the system better than the people who make it, trying to anticipate the upcoming assholery of the people who make it, & sometimes not being nice. When people have discretion about whether or not to do something, it can be helpful to know what they want. If it's feeling like they are smart, saving money, successfully gatekeeping, not wanting to get fired - that can be useful.
I give people deadlines. If they don't answer when I ask when I should check in on something they're supposed to do, I tell them when I'll check in. And then I do. And then I keep doing it.
In terms of bureaucratic victories - the biggest contributing factor (inside of my control) is often a toss up between being prepared and being absolutely unrelenting. But in an unshakeably calm, clearly not taking no for an answer, immovable object kind of way.
For cat videos: the longer videos from Big Cat Rescue in Florida are usually super relaxing for me. If you might enjoy sleeping tigers, and I'm still really surprised at how much I do, I recommend the tiger lake livecam.
posted by Verba Volant at 10:51 PM on April 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
I forgot to mention - I don't know if this is relevant to you but in my experience the deadline thing is really effective with doctors offices, pharmacies, and insurance companies. Good luck.
posted by Verba Volant at 11:12 PM on April 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Verba Volant at 11:12 PM on April 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'd consider a radical acceptance approach. I find it easier to deal with crap when I wade in accepting that it is just going to absolutely suck.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:19 AM on April 11, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 12:19 AM on April 11, 2018 [6 favorites]
Seconding trying to be the nicest person someone talks to all week. Of course, sometimes you're too damn frustrated. When I've been on the phone in that state, I've said "I'm sorry, I'm really frustrated and I know this isn't your fault." early in the call. Hopefully that does help the person on the other end feel like I'm not yet another person about to shout at them even if I'm obviously annoyed, but I did find that actually having said that out loud meant it was that much easier to remember that I really don't want to be a person who shouts at people on the phone.
posted by hoyland at 3:57 AM on April 11, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by hoyland at 3:57 AM on April 11, 2018 [8 favorites]
It's mentioned above - relentless kindness. I find this helpful not only to get what you want but also to make the process feel more human. If you're calling someone (even a generic line), open by asking them how they are doing. Remember their name and use it when they're having difficulty - for example if you need to escalate, say something like "Mark, I know you have limits to what you are able to do and that your job is likely difficult. I appreciate your efforts. Is there anyone like a supervisor who you think might be able to help us find a solution?" When someone helps you out, ask to speak to a supervisor and remark how helpful they've been. In general - try to find ways to break down the bureaucracy into human elements and moments as I find it a lot more bearable that way.
posted by notorious medium at 6:32 AM on April 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by notorious medium at 6:32 AM on April 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
When I'm working in customer service, it feels overly familiar when strangers use my name. I don't prefer it. Kindness and compassion are certainly the way to go, though.
Also on the plus side - you know it doesn't end. This may make it easier to accept than if there was some undetermined end date far in the future.
posted by aniola at 6:56 AM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also on the plus side - you know it doesn't end. This may make it easier to accept than if there was some undetermined end date far in the future.
posted by aniola at 6:56 AM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
The Utopia of Rules is an anthropological musing on bureaucracy that has been on my reading list since I started working for a notoriously bureaucratic government agency.
The thing that I try to remember is that it's not personal and not malicious. I think that most of the people that you deal with are just trying their best to do their jobs within a system that they know is flawed, and that the system developed this way for Reasons. They're not always great reasons, sometimes its "we needed to patch a bug thirty years ago" or "not enough funding so we had to weigh the tradeoffs", but somewhere along the line, someone believed that doing it the shitty way was still probably better than the alternative.
This doesn't always work, and if so, I try to apologize and make clear that my frustration is with the system and not the person. On the flip side, I think this is also why truly bad customer service (by which I mean indifferent or actively unhelpful, not just 'I didn't get my way') infuriates me so much; I know this sucks and you know this sucks but I'm trying to assume good faith and you're not even trying.
posted by yeahlikethat at 8:27 AM on April 11, 2018
The thing that I try to remember is that it's not personal and not malicious. I think that most of the people that you deal with are just trying their best to do their jobs within a system that they know is flawed, and that the system developed this way for Reasons. They're not always great reasons, sometimes its "we needed to patch a bug thirty years ago" or "not enough funding so we had to weigh the tradeoffs", but somewhere along the line, someone believed that doing it the shitty way was still probably better than the alternative.
This doesn't always work, and if so, I try to apologize and make clear that my frustration is with the system and not the person. On the flip side, I think this is also why truly bad customer service (by which I mean indifferent or actively unhelpful, not just 'I didn't get my way') infuriates me so much; I know this sucks and you know this sucks but I'm trying to assume good faith and you're not even trying.
posted by yeahlikethat at 8:27 AM on April 11, 2018
In addition to being nice, the more educated you are on the specific processes and steps you need to take, the easier this will be. Spend some time researching, asking others who are in a similar situation, finding an in-person or online support group, or even finding a legal advocacy program that specializes in cases like yours. Walking in prepared, knowing what to do and say and ask can go a long way to lessening not only your anxiety and frustration, but will also help to not irritate the (very likely) overburdened and underpaid folks you have to interact with at said beauracracy.
As with many things of this nature, you will hopefully find that after some time you deeply understand and can navigate the things you need to do, and it will become if not easier to deal with, at least less of a source of uncertainty and stress.
It’s a crappy situation and I’m sorry you’re dealing with it. I believe in you. You can do this.
posted by ananci at 11:34 AM on April 11, 2018
As with many things of this nature, you will hopefully find that after some time you deeply understand and can navigate the things you need to do, and it will become if not easier to deal with, at least less of a source of uncertainty and stress.
It’s a crappy situation and I’m sorry you’re dealing with it. I believe in you. You can do this.
posted by ananci at 11:34 AM on April 11, 2018
A firm understanding of technical debt helps me cope with bureaucracy - knowing that many of the ridiculous time-wasting pointless procedures were, at one point, the best way to track the necessary details helps me put up with them. Knowing that fixing the problems means systemwide adjustments that come with their own hassles and potential bugs also helps.
Sometimes, it'd be very advantageous to fix the problems--a few months of rough adjustments and even problems would save thousands of hours of hassle for administrators and clients down the road. But someone has to realize that's the case, and then they have to convince whoever's in charge of the process, and even if everyone is competent and acting in good faith, that's slow and fraught with roadblocks.
Of course, not everyone involved is competent, and while few are actively malicious, a whole lot are indifferent - just slogging through their jobs, comfortable with the current system and not wanting changes, because changes usually mean either more work for them, or just disrupting their habits. (And sometimes changes mean "everything's worse for everyone;" it only takes one "oops our new software lost all our money - and we'll get it back in a week, but until then, you can all cope without paychecks and our debtors will let us off the hook, right?" to decide that you NEVER want to deal with an "upgrade" again.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:51 AM on April 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Sometimes, it'd be very advantageous to fix the problems--a few months of rough adjustments and even problems would save thousands of hours of hassle for administrators and clients down the road. But someone has to realize that's the case, and then they have to convince whoever's in charge of the process, and even if everyone is competent and acting in good faith, that's slow and fraught with roadblocks.
Of course, not everyone involved is competent, and while few are actively malicious, a whole lot are indifferent - just slogging through their jobs, comfortable with the current system and not wanting changes, because changes usually mean either more work for them, or just disrupting their habits. (And sometimes changes mean "everything's worse for everyone;" it only takes one "oops our new software lost all our money - and we'll get it back in a week, but until then, you can all cope without paychecks and our debtors will let us off the hook, right?" to decide that you NEVER want to deal with an "upgrade" again.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:51 AM on April 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
I work in a large organization in a very regulated industry. Bureaucracy every damn hour of each day. Besides kindness to help the emotional side, one thing I’ve found helpful is becoming an expert in the various processes I deal with. By becoming an expert I’ve been able to help others navigate the same issues (which also makes me feel good) and I feel like I’ve replaced the frustration with some semblance of control because I understand all the moving parts.
posted by homesickness at 12:16 PM on April 11, 2018
posted by homesickness at 12:16 PM on April 11, 2018
I got myself into a stupid mess that took way too much effort and paperwork and crap to resolve. When one woman was super-kind on the phone by saying that the situation was not entirely my fault and gave me details for how to resolve it, I cried. I'm sorry you have this mountain to climb.
Get names. Get phone numbers if you can. Develop a specific narrative, ideally using the correct language. I'm following up on my claim dated March 12, 2017, and was told by the Finance Wizard that the Thingamajog Director needed to sign off on it. Write down the Interactive phone prompts so when you call again, you'll know it was 1 for English, 6 for Demonic Possession Claims, 2 for Claims Already in Process.
Keep paper and markers nearby so you can doodle while on hold, or knit.
posted by theora55 at 4:58 PM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Get names. Get phone numbers if you can. Develop a specific narrative, ideally using the correct language. I'm following up on my claim dated March 12, 2017, and was told by the Finance Wizard that the Thingamajog Director needed to sign off on it. Write down the Interactive phone prompts so when you call again, you'll know it was 1 for English, 6 for Demonic Possession Claims, 2 for Claims Already in Process.
Keep paper and markers nearby so you can doodle while on hold, or knit.
posted by theora55 at 4:58 PM on April 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
You will get used to it. Also what DarlingBri said.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:31 PM on April 11, 2018
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:31 PM on April 11, 2018
I work for the State and have to deal with multiple state agencies all the time. The people I encounter are sometimes obstinate and/or unhelpful, but I've become very zen when I have to get a question answered or have to navigate their world. Stay very calm. Express confusion instead of anger or frustration. A confused person who keeps asking for clarification or repeats what they need to accomplish seems to get farther, in my experience, than someone who gets angry or irritated or is even in a rush - bureaucracy thrives on being able to dismiss those who aren't complying with their system, and emotion/irritableness on your part allows people to do this easily.
It's hard, but "zen out", draw upon every ounce of patience you have, and try to look at the situation from the outside - as if you are part of a quest where your cunning and calm will be the weapons you use to succeed.
This all seems dramatic but it's helpful even at the post office. You can slowly make THEM frustrated, which makes them want to make you go away, and you've shown them you won't until you get what you came for.
posted by agregoli at 8:08 AM on April 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's hard, but "zen out", draw upon every ounce of patience you have, and try to look at the situation from the outside - as if you are part of a quest where your cunning and calm will be the weapons you use to succeed.
This all seems dramatic but it's helpful even at the post office. You can slowly make THEM frustrated, which makes them want to make you go away, and you've shown them you won't until you get what you came for.
posted by agregoli at 8:08 AM on April 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Find a commonality/character reference/quote and make a tag line running joke of it with people in the same boat; find the humor in it.
Sounds stupid but Really, if you've a lifetime of this to endure, I promise you that after a few years of you being disgusted at yourself for just straight up totally lying to yourself, your brain will actually start to believe it. And then you'll even start to find fun or productive things to do while you're "waiting in line at the dmv," and can then you can even start tell yourself how awesome you are for being creative/persistent/innovative/multitasking etc. Stretch the imagination far and wide. Whatever works.
Small things help! Trust me I've been doing this for a decade and have reached a state of blissful denial and delusions that would have any monk jealous. Most of the time anyway.
posted by OnefortheLast at 8:24 PM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]