This tub has got to go... okay, how do I do this?
March 30, 2018 9:42 PM Subscribe
My house from 1979 needs a new tub and toilet. Badly. Due to some water damage, it's going need to go down to the studs. I'm going to need to do a good chunk of work myself. Where do I start to get a handle on this?
Alas, there are too many sharks in the contacting pool, and I'm seeing ridiculous estimates. I've done re-tiling, window replacement, and drywall, but this is a step beyond. And it's the only tub in the house, so it will need to be replaced quickly.
I'm feeling rather intimidated, and could use an idea of where to start. How do I plan this out? Which bits are critical, where I need to bring in the pros?
Alas, there are too many sharks in the contacting pool, and I'm seeing ridiculous estimates. I've done re-tiling, window replacement, and drywall, but this is a step beyond. And it's the only tub in the house, so it will need to be replaced quickly.
I'm feeling rather intimidated, and could use an idea of where to start. How do I plan this out? Which bits are critical, where I need to bring in the pros?
If you don't know what the work involves then you don't know that the estimates you're getting are ridiculous.
In terms of doing work yourself, you haven't given us much to go on. We don't know how fancy you want to get with this remodel -- new ceramic tile, or vinyl and fiberglass? We don't know how much water damage there has been -- is there failed plumbing and rotting framing? And we don't know how quickly the project needs to be completed once begun. Can you improvise a bathing arrangement in the basement? Use a neighbor's shower for a week? Stay in a hotel?
Most contractors will be unenthusiastic about letting you help. If you don't have the knowledge to do the work yourself then you might just screw things up in ways that make the contractor's job harder and cost him time and money.
This isn't rocket science but you're dealing with water which obviously can do a lot of damage if handled improperly. There are lots of little details that really matter. It will take time to wrap your head around them. Do you have that kind of time?
posted by jon1270 at 3:48 AM on March 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
In terms of doing work yourself, you haven't given us much to go on. We don't know how fancy you want to get with this remodel -- new ceramic tile, or vinyl and fiberglass? We don't know how much water damage there has been -- is there failed plumbing and rotting framing? And we don't know how quickly the project needs to be completed once begun. Can you improvise a bathing arrangement in the basement? Use a neighbor's shower for a week? Stay in a hotel?
Most contractors will be unenthusiastic about letting you help. If you don't have the knowledge to do the work yourself then you might just screw things up in ways that make the contractor's job harder and cost him time and money.
This isn't rocket science but you're dealing with water which obviously can do a lot of damage if handled improperly. There are lots of little details that really matter. It will take time to wrap your head around them. Do you have that kind of time?
posted by jon1270 at 3:48 AM on March 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
One thing I can say though if you're dead-set on doing this yourself, regardless of the scope of your actual project, is: YouTube. There are many, many, many renovation tutorials from the macro ("this is how you renovate a bathroom") to the micro ("here's a trick for installing the rear panel on a Kohler K-10156B three-piece tub surround") and many of them are very informative. You're looking for the ones that are produced by actual contractors.
Whatever you do though, have a backup bathroom plan of some kind. What if you get everything in place for a lightning-fast tub replacement and then when you pull the old one—uh oh—the joists underneath are rotten and need replacement? Or what if you go to install the new one and—whoops—the plumbing lines need to be reconfigured because the valves are in the wrong spots now? There are dozens of unexpected things that can happen to cause delays, maybe hundreds. Some of them will happen. Have a plan for when they do.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:09 AM on March 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
Whatever you do though, have a backup bathroom plan of some kind. What if you get everything in place for a lightning-fast tub replacement and then when you pull the old one—uh oh—the joists underneath are rotten and need replacement? Or what if you go to install the new one and—whoops—the plumbing lines need to be reconfigured because the valves are in the wrong spots now? There are dozens of unexpected things that can happen to cause delays, maybe hundreds. Some of them will happen. Have a plan for when they do.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:09 AM on March 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
And now that I think of it I've never heard of a one-day bathroom reno. When I worked for a contractor, our fastest time even when we knew the homeowner had only one bathroom and so we were making a special effort to line everything up ahead of time and work fast, was about a week. There are just so many systems and specialties involved—carpentry, plumbing, electrical, tilesetting, plaster—and the work requires at least five different visits from building inspectors, too. It's a complicated dance and it doesn't get done in a day.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:17 AM on March 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:17 AM on March 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
What's below the tub? The drain plumbing is a lot easier to do if you have an unfinished basement beneath. Is the existing drain plumbing old galvanized pipes, copper or PVC/ ABS? Dealing with plastic pipes is a lot easier.
Removing an old cast iron tub isn't hard, you can break it up in to chunks with a sledge hammer- the thin cast iron a tub is made from is quite brittle. Cover the tub with sheets or a tarp when you're whacking it and wear safety goggles. Everyone else is right- this is a multi-step job with a lot of planning, and how difficult it is going to be depends a lot on what type/condition of materials you currently have installed and what you're putting in.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:35 AM on March 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Removing an old cast iron tub isn't hard, you can break it up in to chunks with a sledge hammer- the thin cast iron a tub is made from is quite brittle. Cover the tub with sheets or a tarp when you're whacking it and wear safety goggles. Everyone else is right- this is a multi-step job with a lot of planning, and how difficult it is going to be depends a lot on what type/condition of materials you currently have installed and what you're putting in.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:35 AM on March 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
I’ve lived in and renovated three fixer uppers and if there is one thing I’ve learned, it’s when to draw the line and call in the pros.
The situation you have described—taking a bathroom down to the studs to replace the main fixtures and repair water damage—is one of those times. I am a very confident DIYer and this is way past my red line.
You will not know how extensive the water damage repairs will need to be until the demolition is done. If you don’t get all the rot fixed, and if you don’t know what you’re doing as you put the new fixtures in, then you are just inviting more of the same problem. Not worth cheaping out. If you get in there, do it right.
Gutting and rebuilding a bathroom is very expensive. No way around it. You may be required to bring other systems (electrical, ventilation) up to current code while you are at it. In the long run this is a good thing.
If you cannot afford for pros to do every bit of the work, then I would suggest hiring pros to do everything except the finish work. You do the paint, flooring, shower curtain rod, towel rods, medicine cabinet. Maybe take on the tile or modular tile surround if you are confident about that.
posted by Sublimity at 6:58 AM on March 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
The situation you have described—taking a bathroom down to the studs to replace the main fixtures and repair water damage—is one of those times. I am a very confident DIYer and this is way past my red line.
You will not know how extensive the water damage repairs will need to be until the demolition is done. If you don’t get all the rot fixed, and if you don’t know what you’re doing as you put the new fixtures in, then you are just inviting more of the same problem. Not worth cheaping out. If you get in there, do it right.
Gutting and rebuilding a bathroom is very expensive. No way around it. You may be required to bring other systems (electrical, ventilation) up to current code while you are at it. In the long run this is a good thing.
If you cannot afford for pros to do every bit of the work, then I would suggest hiring pros to do everything except the finish work. You do the paint, flooring, shower curtain rod, towel rods, medicine cabinet. Maybe take on the tile or modular tile surround if you are confident about that.
posted by Sublimity at 6:58 AM on March 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks all, I'll try to expand.
This is an entry level home that we've been just patching along for years. The existing tub is a jetted fiberglass monstrosity that some former owner put in, sitting on a platform that's 5" proud of the floor, and tied to the toilet. It's on a second floor above the kitchen. It has grout cracks from before we bought the place. and thus, rotten backing boards and possibly underlayment. Which, looking from below, seems to have about three hundred nails driven through it... Honestly, it's rather majestic in its sheer WTF-ness. Because of this, I'm not sure what is really under there.
If it could be replaced demo to finish in a couple of months, that would be fine, if we could limit the plumbing downtime to a couple of weeks of showering at the gym.
I really just want a standard size tub and shower and toilet, simple tile enclosure. Seems like $30k is a bit high (and out of my range anyway). Sounds like I need to find different contractors for estimation (I've been talking to the home depot folks) and talk more about ways to make it work.
Any further ideas are more than welcome!
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 8:21 AM on March 31, 2018
This is an entry level home that we've been just patching along for years. The existing tub is a jetted fiberglass monstrosity that some former owner put in, sitting on a platform that's 5" proud of the floor, and tied to the toilet. It's on a second floor above the kitchen. It has grout cracks from before we bought the place. and thus, rotten backing boards and possibly underlayment. Which, looking from below, seems to have about three hundred nails driven through it... Honestly, it's rather majestic in its sheer WTF-ness. Because of this, I'm not sure what is really under there.
If it could be replaced demo to finish in a couple of months, that would be fine, if we could limit the plumbing downtime to a couple of weeks of showering at the gym.
I really just want a standard size tub and shower and toilet, simple tile enclosure. Seems like $30k is a bit high (and out of my range anyway). Sounds like I need to find different contractors for estimation (I've been talking to the home depot folks) and talk more about ways to make it work.
Any further ideas are more than welcome!
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 8:21 AM on March 31, 2018
Yeah, talk to some real contractors not Home Depot. I live in a fairly expensive area and a GC here would probably quote you around $15-20k for a basic remodel on a full bath. I agree that you could save some money if you do the finish work yourself, just make sure your contract is very clear and detailed about where their part ends and yours begins. You might even be able to find someone who will let you do your own demo, although they'll still charge you a bit for prep work because you won't do it exactly like they would.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:32 AM on March 31, 2018
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:32 AM on March 31, 2018
Do you have a second bathroom?
My husband did a full demo on our bathroom in our 1936 home, but it was our only bathroom, the job ended up taking 4 months, and we had to move out for the duration.
He took out everything out, including the walls and the floor but was a little stumped at the tub, which was huge and, it turned out, suspended over the basement on just two rotted boards.
We had our own independent plumber, tile guy, and drywall/plaster guy. The plumber and his crew helped my husband remove the tub, and told him what the new framing needed to be. The tile guy told him what he needed for the floor and walls. Having all these guys in and out while my husband worked as general contractor is part of what took so long.
Also, we had delays in getting some of the tile, and my husband was working full time during the process. It all turned out great, cheap enough that we could splurge on an expensive sink and toilet, but as I said, took 4 months for our only bathroom.
posted by Squeak Attack at 9:26 AM on March 31, 2018
My husband did a full demo on our bathroom in our 1936 home, but it was our only bathroom, the job ended up taking 4 months, and we had to move out for the duration.
He took out everything out, including the walls and the floor but was a little stumped at the tub, which was huge and, it turned out, suspended over the basement on just two rotted boards.
We had our own independent plumber, tile guy, and drywall/plaster guy. The plumber and his crew helped my husband remove the tub, and told him what the new framing needed to be. The tile guy told him what he needed for the floor and walls. Having all these guys in and out while my husband worked as general contractor is part of what took so long.
Also, we had delays in getting some of the tile, and my husband was working full time during the process. It all turned out great, cheap enough that we could splurge on an expensive sink and toilet, but as I said, took 4 months for our only bathroom.
posted by Squeak Attack at 9:26 AM on March 31, 2018
Do you at least have another toilet, like a half-bath? How do the others in your household feel about showering at the gym for weeks or months? Could you rig up an outdoor shower?
If you have another toilet and everyone in the house is ok with showering at the gym or using an outdoor shower then you could consider tearing out the tub yourself and seeing what you're up against. Is there any sign of water leakage on the ceiling of the room under the bathroom? If there is, you can be sure this is going to be a big complicated mess. If there is not, then you might get lucky and be able to do the whole thing yourself.
posted by mareli at 11:22 AM on March 31, 2018
If you have another toilet and everyone in the house is ok with showering at the gym or using an outdoor shower then you could consider tearing out the tub yourself and seeing what you're up against. Is there any sign of water leakage on the ceiling of the room under the bathroom? If there is, you can be sure this is going to be a big complicated mess. If there is not, then you might get lucky and be able to do the whole thing yourself.
posted by mareli at 11:22 AM on March 31, 2018
We successfully used a 20 litre commercial mayonnaise bucket, the seat off the existing toilet, and sawdust to sub for our flush toilet for the month it took me to rip out and replace the guts of our rotten-floored bathroom and knock through into the laundry. Worked astonishingly well. No stink whatsoever and only wanted emptying every week or so.
posted by flabdablet at 12:53 PM on March 31, 2018
posted by flabdablet at 12:53 PM on March 31, 2018
Response by poster: Quite fortunately, there is a half bath with a functioning toilet, so the biggest worry is just bathing. A gym membership for everyone, plus sponge baths, is our plan of record for any downtime.
There's no sign of any leakage other than that from the grout cracks (which were significant). But, this place had 3' x 5' windows that were single sheets of glass, framed in with a reciprocating saw and strips of wood, without even a sign of sealant. There could be anything under the tub.
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 1:52 PM on March 31, 2018
There's no sign of any leakage other than that from the grout cracks (which were significant). But, this place had 3' x 5' windows that were single sheets of glass, framed in with a reciprocating saw and strips of wood, without even a sign of sealant. There could be anything under the tub.
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 1:52 PM on March 31, 2018
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Also, when you say "down to the studs" it kinda makes it sound like you're renovating the entire bathroom rather than just replacing the fixtures. Is that correct?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:42 AM on March 31, 2018 [2 favorites]