Office politics: being a new high performer without backlash
March 30, 2018 9:09 AM Subscribe
How can I perform well at work, to eventually get some benefits of being recognized as a strong performer, without making enemies from competition? How do I know what "my place" is? Can I "fight back" if someone makes me look bad or do I have to "pay my dues" by accepting this from a high status person?
I am not used to being at the bottom of the totem pole. It's supposed to be a team (of 3 people) and one person seems to take opportunities to exert power. Making me wait, highlighting silly mistakes in front of others rather than building me up. She is a peer but has been here longer than me. She is an influential person.
I don't want to make enemies but I don't appreciate being made to look bad or "put in my place." If this is a team, then why is there so much competition? It's all very subtle of course. This is someone I could use as an ally but she seems to be regularly trying to remind me that I am new and lacking any power. What am I even supposed to do about that? She helps with the official duties of the job, and occasionally if I am ingratiating or showing weakness (i.e. a sexual harrassment problem), she's super nice and helpful. But if I have been performing well it seems that she needs to point out my mistakes.
Is this what it is supposed to be like in a big organization when you're new? This is lonely and isolating. Do I fight? How? Eventually I would like the good trainings and other opportunities to also include me. That happens by proving your value. How can I do it if she undermines me? Is she supposed to be able to do so because she has seniority? Am I supposed to roll over and submit to her subtle power stuff? How will I ever get a chance to shine as I have in other roles if this is what I'm dealing with?
In case you can't tell I'm used to very flat orgs not hierarchy so I'm out of my depth and feeling rather naive, confused and hopeless.
I am not used to being at the bottom of the totem pole. It's supposed to be a team (of 3 people) and one person seems to take opportunities to exert power. Making me wait, highlighting silly mistakes in front of others rather than building me up. She is a peer but has been here longer than me. She is an influential person.
I don't want to make enemies but I don't appreciate being made to look bad or "put in my place." If this is a team, then why is there so much competition? It's all very subtle of course. This is someone I could use as an ally but she seems to be regularly trying to remind me that I am new and lacking any power. What am I even supposed to do about that? She helps with the official duties of the job, and occasionally if I am ingratiating or showing weakness (i.e. a sexual harrassment problem), she's super nice and helpful. But if I have been performing well it seems that she needs to point out my mistakes.
Is this what it is supposed to be like in a big organization when you're new? This is lonely and isolating. Do I fight? How? Eventually I would like the good trainings and other opportunities to also include me. That happens by proving your value. How can I do it if she undermines me? Is she supposed to be able to do so because she has seniority? Am I supposed to roll over and submit to her subtle power stuff? How will I ever get a chance to shine as I have in other roles if this is what I'm dealing with?
In case you can't tell I'm used to very flat orgs not hierarchy so I'm out of my depth and feeling rather naive, confused and hopeless.
She's your peer? Just ignore it and play nice with her. You don't know what else she's got going on, assume it's not about you and she's just stressed and/or insecure. Do you know she's intentionally making you wait or does she have other priorities you might not know about (work or otherwise)? Make other allies, don't burn bridges with her and continue to treat her as a teammate. Don't accept special help from her or curry her favor. Keep your communications transparent so everyone has the same expectations of your responsibilities and she can't undermine you.
Also, don't use that totem pole idiom, it's culturally insensitive. The figure at the bottom of the totem pole is the strongest, as it supports the rest.
posted by momus_window at 9:24 AM on March 30, 2018 [6 favorites]
Also, don't use that totem pole idiom, it's culturally insensitive. The figure at the bottom of the totem pole is the strongest, as it supports the rest.
posted by momus_window at 9:24 AM on March 30, 2018 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: momus_window can you please clarify? She is officially a peer, but has many years on me, and unofficially much more influence. That's part of why I don't know how to manage the situation.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:30 AM on March 30, 2018
posted by crunchy potato at 9:30 AM on March 30, 2018
Remember, seniority in a non-terminal position can actually be a sign of incompetence. If she really were high-performing and influential, she probably would have been promoted. If your goal is promotion, ignore her and figure out who really matters and what they expect from you.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:42 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 9:42 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
Talk to you rmanager! This is something your manager should definitely know about, especially if your manager also manages this peer (but even if they don't). Especially call out the fact that you're not getting training and opportunities. But talk about the issues you're having with concrete specifics, in a constructive way with ideas about what could improve the team dynamics. Your job here isn't "get my peer in trouble", your job is "share information that is impacting my ability to do my best work and collaborate with the team".
And then yeah, focus on your job and kicking ass at it. If it's a good org, they'll notice and that's what's going to matter.
posted by capricorn at 9:43 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
And then yeah, focus on your job and kicking ass at it. If it's a good org, they'll notice and that's what's going to matter.
posted by capricorn at 9:43 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
You may do better to think of this as less a hierarchy issue than a regular old social primate behavior issue. You are new in this group and someone with a lot of influence in the group wants to keep you from gaining too much. How should you navigate it? I think the answer to that probably depends on a whole lot of nuances about you, your situation, your social presentation and skills. Push back, banter, be submissive, be kind, let time pass - all of those could help for the right person in the right situation.
But that's for the social influence contest part of the situation. If she is actually interfering with your ability to do your job, withholding training or not giving you opportunities: if she's doing it blatantly, talk to your manager. If she has plausible deniability that she's just forgetting you, try to find other people who can be sources of information for you.
posted by Lady Li at 9:51 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
But that's for the social influence contest part of the situation. If she is actually interfering with your ability to do your job, withholding training or not giving you opportunities: if she's doing it blatantly, talk to your manager. If she has plausible deniability that she's just forgetting you, try to find other people who can be sources of information for you.
posted by Lady Li at 9:51 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Be gracious, be polite, meet petty, competitive behavior with open, collaborative behavior. Do not "roll over and submit," just continue to outperform. If you must respond to the minute criticisms, say "Thank you, I'll take that under consideration" and then forget about it.
Focus on your work, and know your work shines. Always be the better human in any interaction.
posted by erst at 9:57 AM on March 30, 2018 [8 favorites]
Focus on your work, and know your work shines. Always be the better human in any interaction.
posted by erst at 9:57 AM on March 30, 2018 [8 favorites]
Cultivate respect as much as liking. This person is using mild bullying to retain power. It may be because she feels threatened, or she may just be an alpha type who needs to be controlling.
1. Make friends outside your team. Do not discuss her, but talk about what *you* are accomplishing. She's almost certainly used this tactic for years and there may be pockets of resentment. These friends will help ypou know what's going on, alert you to opportunities, etc. Do the same for them.
2. What's her education/ experience? Use whatever you have. You may not have seen this method here at X. I was taught some ways to analyze this. etc. Don't be openly critical. Be overtly friendly and complimentary.
3. Your manager cares about results and not being hassled. Going to your manager for anything less that outright harassment, stealing credit, or incompetence will make you look like a whiner.
4. Ask for training opportunities, and here you can cc: your manager. I was so disappointed to not be informed about the XYZ Training; it would be really helpful with ABC tasks. Please let me know about future trainings. Thanks so much. look for training; join organizations, ask for funding to go to seminars or conferences.
5. Keep track of accomplishments, mention them to boss whenever possible. Women, especially, tend to not do this. Your manager won't notice how great a job you do unless you point it out.
posted by theora55 at 9:59 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
1. Make friends outside your team. Do not discuss her, but talk about what *you* are accomplishing. She's almost certainly used this tactic for years and there may be pockets of resentment. These friends will help ypou know what's going on, alert you to opportunities, etc. Do the same for them.
2. What's her education/ experience? Use whatever you have. You may not have seen this method here at X. I was taught some ways to analyze this. etc. Don't be openly critical. Be overtly friendly and complimentary.
3. Your manager cares about results and not being hassled. Going to your manager for anything less that outright harassment, stealing credit, or incompetence will make you look like a whiner.
4. Ask for training opportunities, and here you can cc: your manager. I was so disappointed to not be informed about the XYZ Training; it would be really helpful with ABC tasks. Please let me know about future trainings. Thanks so much. look for training; join organizations, ask for funding to go to seminars or conferences.
5. Keep track of accomplishments, mention them to boss whenever possible. Women, especially, tend to not do this. Your manager won't notice how great a job you do unless you point it out.
posted by theora55 at 9:59 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Kill her with kindness when you can't ignore her. Don't make it obvious that you pity her, but it may stop her form being able to bait you as much if you can see how unhappy she must be to lash out at you like that.
Most people who see that a veteran is not being supportive of a new person will think less of the veteran. Her jealousy over her own work is not going to reflect well on her. The advice to ignore as much of her behavior as you can is so that you aren't "making enemies" and are clear that your job is your priority, not her feelings. Take the feedback she provides and decide if it matters at all. I have a few valuable people who provide feedback on my work to me and sometimes that is pointing out a mistake. It can be done in a helpful way or a critical way. Some people come off as critical but are trying to be helpful. You might be able to change their approach if you thank them for the tip and seem open to "quality control" type feedback. It might not work on her, but it is worth a try.
posted by soelo at 9:59 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Most people who see that a veteran is not being supportive of a new person will think less of the veteran. Her jealousy over her own work is not going to reflect well on her. The advice to ignore as much of her behavior as you can is so that you aren't "making enemies" and are clear that your job is your priority, not her feelings. Take the feedback she provides and decide if it matters at all. I have a few valuable people who provide feedback on my work to me and sometimes that is pointing out a mistake. It can be done in a helpful way or a critical way. Some people come off as critical but are trying to be helpful. You might be able to change their approach if you thank them for the tip and seem open to "quality control" type feedback. It might not work on her, but it is worth a try.
posted by soelo at 9:59 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Don’t talk to your manager until you have worked out the politics of the place.
When you do talk to your manager, ideally as part of a wider discussion about how you’re settling in, ask for clarification about training opportunities and whatever else about workflow, reporting structures, processes may be relevant. Express an interest in what you want to develop. Simply asking for what you perceive as ‚better‘ training in itself is never going to look good. There has to be a tangible business benefit to giving you more training or more formal training. So find these benefits and sell that. You don’t have to mention your peer as part of that conversation.
In the meantime focus on getting really good at your job. And on identifying opportunities how to progress from there to the next level. You’re playing a longer game. Model yourself on a duck and think of her as water that just runs off your back.
Be as professional as possible in your interactions with everybody and transparent in your communication. Sooner or later she will look very silly trying to undermine you. Also, opportunities will present themselves that allow you to side step that relationship and shine in front of more important people.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:10 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
When you do talk to your manager, ideally as part of a wider discussion about how you’re settling in, ask for clarification about training opportunities and whatever else about workflow, reporting structures, processes may be relevant. Express an interest in what you want to develop. Simply asking for what you perceive as ‚better‘ training in itself is never going to look good. There has to be a tangible business benefit to giving you more training or more formal training. So find these benefits and sell that. You don’t have to mention your peer as part of that conversation.
In the meantime focus on getting really good at your job. And on identifying opportunities how to progress from there to the next level. You’re playing a longer game. Model yourself on a duck and think of her as water that just runs off your back.
Be as professional as possible in your interactions with everybody and transparent in your communication. Sooner or later she will look very silly trying to undermine you. Also, opportunities will present themselves that allow you to side step that relationship and shine in front of more important people.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:10 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Is this the same person you asked this question about? If so, and she is the unofficial second-in-command, you are wise to take her seriously even as you recognize that she is not your "real boss." At a minimum, she is trusted and respected in your organization, so her views are going to count. It would be useful to have a couple of specific examples of her undermining behaviour to suggest ways to counter or neutralize it.
In general, though, the advice to be pleasant but not overly ingratiating, and to focus on your own tasks (not offering to take on hers unless asked or instructed to by your mutual boss) is the way to go. If you do make a small mistake and she points it out, give a brisk "hey, thanks for catching that typo!" type response and then keep going. Make sure you have good lines of communication with your official manager, take your formal direction from them, and make sure you are clear and transparent about your tasks and responsibilities.
Also--and I mean this in the gentlest possible way--are you absolutely sure that you are a strong performer right now? How do you know? Have you been seeking feedback from your manager? From internal and external clients? I ask this because I recently saw a new hire leave my workplace fairly quickly after arriving because they felt that their skills were not being recognized and their manager was not doing enough to mentor them and help them advance. The problem was that the person never asked the manager if they were doing well, and if not, what they could do to change that. The manager tried to give feedback but the person didn't think they needed it. Since their performance was minimally adequate at best, their expectations were doomed.
It sounds like you've been in this job a couple of months now and so it would be appropriate to ask for a meeting with your official supervisor to ask for their feedback on your performance, including what you have been doing well and what you could be doing better. Focus on you, not anybody else. Ask not only about the concrete work but also about less tangible things, like your relationships with clients and other co-workers. (In the example above, the person was very rude to two of our administrators who actually had a lot of power in the organization, and did not understand how that was undermining their own opportunities.)
Most importantly, when they give you that feedback, try to listen with an open mind, without becoming defensive. Anything they tell you is a gift.
posted by rpfields at 10:17 AM on March 30, 2018 [8 favorites]
In general, though, the advice to be pleasant but not overly ingratiating, and to focus on your own tasks (not offering to take on hers unless asked or instructed to by your mutual boss) is the way to go. If you do make a small mistake and she points it out, give a brisk "hey, thanks for catching that typo!" type response and then keep going. Make sure you have good lines of communication with your official manager, take your formal direction from them, and make sure you are clear and transparent about your tasks and responsibilities.
Also--and I mean this in the gentlest possible way--are you absolutely sure that you are a strong performer right now? How do you know? Have you been seeking feedback from your manager? From internal and external clients? I ask this because I recently saw a new hire leave my workplace fairly quickly after arriving because they felt that their skills were not being recognized and their manager was not doing enough to mentor them and help them advance. The problem was that the person never asked the manager if they were doing well, and if not, what they could do to change that. The manager tried to give feedback but the person didn't think they needed it. Since their performance was minimally adequate at best, their expectations were doomed.
It sounds like you've been in this job a couple of months now and so it would be appropriate to ask for a meeting with your official supervisor to ask for their feedback on your performance, including what you have been doing well and what you could be doing better. Focus on you, not anybody else. Ask not only about the concrete work but also about less tangible things, like your relationships with clients and other co-workers. (In the example above, the person was very rude to two of our administrators who actually had a lot of power in the organization, and did not understand how that was undermining their own opportunities.)
Most importantly, when they give you that feedback, try to listen with an open mind, without becoming defensive. Anything they tell you is a gift.
posted by rpfields at 10:17 AM on March 30, 2018 [8 favorites]
Do you know what the person you have difficulty with was told about you and your role in the team? Have they perhaps been told that you would be in a support role, while you were not told?
I have been in such a situation as the senior person who was accused by the new person of all kinds of things, however before they were hired i had been told part of their job description included being my assistant. But no one told the new hire and it was not in fact in their job description at all but no one told me.
Also, seniority is an underrated issue, and as i have become senior in my role, and much appreciated by management but our structure does not foresee any promotion s, only junior and senior roles, it is frustrating for both the new person who was under the impression promotion was possible, and the reality that unless i leave or retire she will not move up.
Both issues can only be solved with help of management, to correct the expectations created during the hiring process.
posted by 15L06 at 10:38 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
I have been in such a situation as the senior person who was accused by the new person of all kinds of things, however before they were hired i had been told part of their job description included being my assistant. But no one told the new hire and it was not in fact in their job description at all but no one told me.
Also, seniority is an underrated issue, and as i have become senior in my role, and much appreciated by management but our structure does not foresee any promotion s, only junior and senior roles, it is frustrating for both the new person who was under the impression promotion was possible, and the reality that unless i leave or retire she will not move up.
Both issues can only be solved with help of management, to correct the expectations created during the hiring process.
posted by 15L06 at 10:38 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
If this is a team, then why is there so much competition?
Because this isn't a team. The problematic coworker is propping themselves up at your expense to make themselves look and feel better. That's not how a collaborative team member behaves. That's how someone behaves when they are insecure, negatively competitive, and abusing whatever power they think they have.
And no, this isn't necessarily something that happens when you are new. This is something that happens in dysfunctional work environments where negative competition is tolerated/encouraged. IME the best way to deal with this is to be very professional in all interactions and keep doing an excellent job. Assuming that she is just a coworker and doesn't have influence over performance reviews, pay raises, promotions, etc, make sure that the people who do matter are aware of your efforts. If this is just a difficult person in an otherwise functional work situation (there's always at least one difficult person where ever you go), the people that matter will appreciate your contribution and reward you for it.
posted by jazzbaby at 10:46 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Because this isn't a team. The problematic coworker is propping themselves up at your expense to make themselves look and feel better. That's not how a collaborative team member behaves. That's how someone behaves when they are insecure, negatively competitive, and abusing whatever power they think they have.
And no, this isn't necessarily something that happens when you are new. This is something that happens in dysfunctional work environments where negative competition is tolerated/encouraged. IME the best way to deal with this is to be very professional in all interactions and keep doing an excellent job. Assuming that she is just a coworker and doesn't have influence over performance reviews, pay raises, promotions, etc, make sure that the people who do matter are aware of your efforts. If this is just a difficult person in an otherwise functional work situation (there's always at least one difficult person where ever you go), the people that matter will appreciate your contribution and reward you for it.
posted by jazzbaby at 10:46 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Ok examples are very, very sutble. Things like being less responsive in tone when I share an accomplishment within the group compared to others, laughing less at jokes, or highlighting a wrong statement and repeating a previously given answer to a question - even though the question in the moment is actually a different one.
This person has a lot of rapport with people in authority and I'm quite certain that she matches body language etc on purpose and as such, the withdrawal of nonverbal reinforcement in front of authority figures is also intentional. Answering questions much less cheerily asking individually but if asked in front of boss then playing up the cheerful attitude that has been applied in that relationship. Ignoring emails I send but not ignoring any group email responses from other team members. The coolness I get in group situations actually makes me stumble and I "shine" better 1:1 with boss and have actually gotten a lot of good feedback from all versions of official management on my performance this far, confidence in my skill and empathy about the little mistakes that everyone else also makes. I wish that I could
stop being so distracted by the microaggression and figure out how to make this person an ally for no other reason than it seems necessary to do so for growing my career even if I transfer to a different facility to do so.
It's all super subtle and plausibly deniable. I don't know how to effectively respond other than try to find allies in other departments and somehow stop seeming like a threat. But how can I stop seeming like a threat without actually doing a bad job?
posted by crunchy potato at 10:50 AM on March 30, 2018
This person has a lot of rapport with people in authority and I'm quite certain that she matches body language etc on purpose and as such, the withdrawal of nonverbal reinforcement in front of authority figures is also intentional. Answering questions much less cheerily asking individually but if asked in front of boss then playing up the cheerful attitude that has been applied in that relationship. Ignoring emails I send but not ignoring any group email responses from other team members. The coolness I get in group situations actually makes me stumble and I "shine" better 1:1 with boss and have actually gotten a lot of good feedback from all versions of official management on my performance this far, confidence in my skill and empathy about the little mistakes that everyone else also makes. I wish that I could
stop being so distracted by the microaggression and figure out how to make this person an ally for no other reason than it seems necessary to do so for growing my career even if I transfer to a different facility to do so.
It's all super subtle and plausibly deniable. I don't know how to effectively respond other than try to find allies in other departments and somehow stop seeming like a threat. But how can I stop seeming like a threat without actually doing a bad job?
posted by crunchy potato at 10:50 AM on March 30, 2018
But how can I stop seeming like a threat without actually doing a bad job?
You can't, but you can just smile, be polite, do your job, and recognize this woman is essentially hazing you and there's very little, if anything, you can do about this. Workplace bullies are everywhere and you've got yourself a doozy.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 11:07 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
You can't, but you can just smile, be polite, do your job, and recognize this woman is essentially hazing you and there's very little, if anything, you can do about this. Workplace bullies are everywhere and you've got yourself a doozy.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 11:07 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
how to effectively respond
If you are defining effective to mean that she stops acting poorly towards you, there is no effective response. Nothing you do will guarantee that she stops this childishness. It is not your job to manage her feelings. Stop trying to do that. You can still succeed without having her in your corner.
People are suggesting you ignore it because that might help. It might make her move on to another victim sooner, for example. It also makes you look better to an outside observer if you aren't stirring the pot. Stand up for yourself if she insults or demeans you, but ignore it when she doesn't smile at you unless the boss is there.
posted by soelo at 11:59 AM on March 30, 2018
If you are defining effective to mean that she stops acting poorly towards you, there is no effective response. Nothing you do will guarantee that she stops this childishness. It is not your job to manage her feelings. Stop trying to do that. You can still succeed without having her in your corner.
People are suggesting you ignore it because that might help. It might make her move on to another victim sooner, for example. It also makes you look better to an outside observer if you aren't stirring the pot. Stand up for yourself if she insults or demeans you, but ignore it when she doesn't smile at you unless the boss is there.
posted by soelo at 11:59 AM on March 30, 2018
figure out how to make this person an ally
this is perpetuating the problem. if you're really dead certain she's turning her subtle body language cues on and off for nefarious purposes, believe she's equally well aware of your insistent need to make her like you and ally with you. these things are about equally obvious.
the prudent way for her to respond to someone closely monitoring her for signals is to be as cool and blank as possible while still fulfilling her job duties. that's what you're describing, with the possible exception of email stuff. if you need email replies from her to do your work, be direct in person or escalate if needed. bccs to your boss and whatnot. if she's inventing or inserting errors in your work, not just pointing out real ones, same except keep escalating until she's fired. if she's lying to or about you, same. if you think she's targeting you because of some larger class you belong to, same.
but if she just doesn't act like she likes you very much or show the warmth you'd like, that's not bullying or a microaggression or a power play or...anything. it's stressful and unpleasant and I'm not telling you not to mind, but it just isn't a thing. you can't figure out how to respond because there's nothing to respond to. she's not the only person who sees your work, so all you have to worry about is your work. when she finds faults in your work, say thanks if she's right and calmly correct her if she's wrong. that's it.
this concern with forming alliances and who's high-status and standing out as a star and finding chances to shine, this may be standard for your industry but it's very intense and nonstandard at least for an outsider to read. I don't know what you'd be risking by just leaving it alone but that's the best way to fix it if there's any personal rupture to fix. try not to treat her tone of voice and cheer level as a thing to analyze. I have never plotted against anybody else at work, but I have been aggressively targeted as a person to cultivate by new hires for their own advancement purposes, and it's unpleasant even when they weren't trying to supplant me or anything. she doesn't have to be pinned down as a friend or a mentor or an ally or an enemy. just a prickly senior co-worker is fine.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:00 PM on March 30, 2018 [12 favorites]
this is perpetuating the problem. if you're really dead certain she's turning her subtle body language cues on and off for nefarious purposes, believe she's equally well aware of your insistent need to make her like you and ally with you. these things are about equally obvious.
the prudent way for her to respond to someone closely monitoring her for signals is to be as cool and blank as possible while still fulfilling her job duties. that's what you're describing, with the possible exception of email stuff. if you need email replies from her to do your work, be direct in person or escalate if needed. bccs to your boss and whatnot. if she's inventing or inserting errors in your work, not just pointing out real ones, same except keep escalating until she's fired. if she's lying to or about you, same. if you think she's targeting you because of some larger class you belong to, same.
but if she just doesn't act like she likes you very much or show the warmth you'd like, that's not bullying or a microaggression or a power play or...anything. it's stressful and unpleasant and I'm not telling you not to mind, but it just isn't a thing. you can't figure out how to respond because there's nothing to respond to. she's not the only person who sees your work, so all you have to worry about is your work. when she finds faults in your work, say thanks if she's right and calmly correct her if she's wrong. that's it.
this concern with forming alliances and who's high-status and standing out as a star and finding chances to shine, this may be standard for your industry but it's very intense and nonstandard at least for an outsider to read. I don't know what you'd be risking by just leaving it alone but that's the best way to fix it if there's any personal rupture to fix. try not to treat her tone of voice and cheer level as a thing to analyze. I have never plotted against anybody else at work, but I have been aggressively targeted as a person to cultivate by new hires for their own advancement purposes, and it's unpleasant even when they weren't trying to supplant me or anything. she doesn't have to be pinned down as a friend or a mentor or an ally or an enemy. just a prickly senior co-worker is fine.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:00 PM on March 30, 2018 [12 favorites]
Would it help to just frame her as "a person who doesn't like you, for reasons entirely her own"? Personally I think I would prefer feeling that way to feeling like she was trying to "put me in my place" - if someone was aggressively trying to squelch me I'd feel the need to fight back, but if someone simply didn't like me that much, well, that's a bummer but personalities clash and we can't all like everyone.
From what I can tell in your description, the risk of letting her aggressions roll off your back is minimal: if the things she's doing really are as subtle as you describe, they don't necessarily need a response - either they're so subtle that nobody but you really notices them, or else they are obvious and she's probably coming across as an ass to other people. Either way I would agree that there's not a lot you reasonably can do, so whatever you can do to let her rudeness be her own problem is probably going to be your best option.
posted by DingoMutt at 1:53 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
From what I can tell in your description, the risk of letting her aggressions roll off your back is minimal: if the things she's doing really are as subtle as you describe, they don't necessarily need a response - either they're so subtle that nobody but you really notices them, or else they are obvious and she's probably coming across as an ass to other people. Either way I would agree that there's not a lot you reasonably can do, so whatever you can do to let her rudeness be her own problem is probably going to be your best option.
posted by DingoMutt at 1:53 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
this concern with forming alliances and who's high-status and standing out as a star and finding chances to shine, this may be standard for your industry but it's very intense and nonstandard at least for an outsider to read.
This is a really good point from queenofbithynia, and makes me wonder...is it possible this is standard for your prior industry or workplaces, and not for the current one? It might be the case that new folks at your current workplace are expected to take some time to settle in, observe others, and learn the ropes. A new person immediately trying to "stand out as a star" by doing things that are above and beyond the job description of their role, when this is atypical in the workplace, could affect the dynamic of the team.
posted by capricorn at 2:01 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
This is a really good point from queenofbithynia, and makes me wonder...is it possible this is standard for your prior industry or workplaces, and not for the current one? It might be the case that new folks at your current workplace are expected to take some time to settle in, observe others, and learn the ropes. A new person immediately trying to "stand out as a star" by doing things that are above and beyond the job description of their role, when this is atypical in the workplace, could affect the dynamic of the team.
posted by capricorn at 2:01 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Is it possible you're reading this wrong?
I ask because this scenario seems much more likely to me:
-- you are new and feel insecure
-- she is senior and maybe not super socially competent
-- she is actually trying to be helpful when she corrects you but isn't good at it
than this:
-- evil woman has for some reason decided to be super mean to you in very subtle plausibly deniable ways
Not to say the latter isn't possible. It's just less likely.
Especially because of this:
She helps with the official duties of the job, and occasionally if I am ingratiating or showing weakness (i.e. a sexual harrassment problem), she's super nice and helpful. But if I have been performing well it seems that she needs to point out my mistakes.
The fact that she's nice when there's a clear-cut way to be nice doesn't necessarily mean she only likes you when you're weak. It probably means that she's actually trying to be an ally to you, but doing so in a way that you find demeaning or off putting. She may even be subconsciously feeling threatened to some extent, which could be influencing how she approaches things. But it's a big leap to assume she's doing this all deliberately to undermine you.
Have you tried taking her aside and saying "I'm new here and it makes me feel undermined when you point out my careless mistakes in front of others. I'd love it if you could save your feedback for later?"
Because that's the easiest way to figure out what's actually going on. If she's actually trying to help you, she'll say something like "oh those mistakes aren't a big deal, nobody will judge you for them, but I'll try to keep that in mind" or something along those lines.
And don't forget, at this point you're so hyped up about this whole thing that you're putting out weird vibes toward her. She may be trying to help you in ways that are coming off as condescending, but you may be coming off as a person who is really sensitive to feedback.
No matter what is actually going with her -- whether she means you well or not -- your best bet is to approach the whole thing straightforwardly and sincerely. Keep doing your best work. Let people know, in a calm, polite, professional way, when they're doing things to you that you don't like. And whenever possible give people the benefit of the doubt. If you're doing good work, she can't actually hurt your reputation. If she's really being unfairly nitpicky to you in public, for example, others will judge her, not you.
posted by mrmurbles at 2:38 PM on March 30, 2018 [5 favorites]
I ask because this scenario seems much more likely to me:
-- you are new and feel insecure
-- she is senior and maybe not super socially competent
-- she is actually trying to be helpful when she corrects you but isn't good at it
than this:
-- evil woman has for some reason decided to be super mean to you in very subtle plausibly deniable ways
Not to say the latter isn't possible. It's just less likely.
Especially because of this:
She helps with the official duties of the job, and occasionally if I am ingratiating or showing weakness (i.e. a sexual harrassment problem), she's super nice and helpful. But if I have been performing well it seems that she needs to point out my mistakes.
The fact that she's nice when there's a clear-cut way to be nice doesn't necessarily mean she only likes you when you're weak. It probably means that she's actually trying to be an ally to you, but doing so in a way that you find demeaning or off putting. She may even be subconsciously feeling threatened to some extent, which could be influencing how she approaches things. But it's a big leap to assume she's doing this all deliberately to undermine you.
Have you tried taking her aside and saying "I'm new here and it makes me feel undermined when you point out my careless mistakes in front of others. I'd love it if you could save your feedback for later?"
Because that's the easiest way to figure out what's actually going on. If she's actually trying to help you, she'll say something like "oh those mistakes aren't a big deal, nobody will judge you for them, but I'll try to keep that in mind" or something along those lines.
And don't forget, at this point you're so hyped up about this whole thing that you're putting out weird vibes toward her. She may be trying to help you in ways that are coming off as condescending, but you may be coming off as a person who is really sensitive to feedback.
No matter what is actually going with her -- whether she means you well or not -- your best bet is to approach the whole thing straightforwardly and sincerely. Keep doing your best work. Let people know, in a calm, polite, professional way, when they're doing things to you that you don't like. And whenever possible give people the benefit of the doubt. If you're doing good work, she can't actually hurt your reputation. If she's really being unfairly nitpicky to you in public, for example, others will judge her, not you.
posted by mrmurbles at 2:38 PM on March 30, 2018 [5 favorites]
You have already made an enemy of this woman. You cannot convert her into an ally. Don't think you can if you bring in donuts or are super nice or whatever. Your focus should be on finding another job and while you do that, minimizing the damage she will cause to you. For whatever reason, she doesn't like you and is subtly striking back.
When bullying happens, almost all of the time nobody is going to do anything about it and it is going to harm you far more than it will her. Your "place" is probably gonna be under her boot, to be honest. If I were you I would not be so concerned about being a "high performer" who "shines" in these circumstances. Shining sounds like it sets her off, so if I were you I'd hide my light under a bushel around her at least, maybe only "shine" if she's not around and higher ups are. Don't brag about what you've accomplished to your "team" if she's around. Don't do a bad job, but don't plug and promote yourself and "shine" when she's around either.
Can you fight back? Uh...it depends , but mostly no. You need to keep your nose clean and don't do anything she can report you for. If she does something bad enough you can report her, but if she's keeping it subtle, then probably not. And whether or not it will do you any good to report her is going to depend entirely on what your higher ups are like and how much they are fine and dandy with putting up with her vs. you. She's liked and has power there so that's not awesome for you. And most people would rather keep a bully and get rid of the bullied than vice versa, for whatever crackassed reason. You don't really have any leverage here.
"Team" is a joke and a lie in some work contexts. Sometimes "team" is just that you're all in the same group. There's competition because it somehow pays off here to compete and tear down rather than to support and build up. That is the culture of this particular office (not all offices). What are you supposed to do about being new and having no power? Um, nothing, there isn't anything you can do. Not all offices are like this, but it seems be the culture here, and either you buy into it or you leave.
It sounds like the only time she's nice to you is if you're in some kind of pickle. If you're already lower down/in need/whatever, that actually brings out a good side? If I were you, work on that. She needs someone to be lower down in order for her to feel good about herself. Asking her for help a lot *might* help, but that's about the only hopeful thing I can think of for you. I'd otherwise say to ignore/stay quiet around her and keep to yourself, lower your expectations and generally try to blend in with the nearest wall.
"Shining" is a baaaaaaaaad idea here, I think. You mention wanting to do that a LOT and I just get a bad feeling at this idea. In some places shininess is a bad social move and it is possible that she considers you some kind of showoff or something and finds this annoying/offputting and that's maybe why she wants to put you down. I can't say for sure but it sounds likely.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:56 PM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
When bullying happens, almost all of the time nobody is going to do anything about it and it is going to harm you far more than it will her. Your "place" is probably gonna be under her boot, to be honest. If I were you I would not be so concerned about being a "high performer" who "shines" in these circumstances. Shining sounds like it sets her off, so if I were you I'd hide my light under a bushel around her at least, maybe only "shine" if she's not around and higher ups are. Don't brag about what you've accomplished to your "team" if she's around. Don't do a bad job, but don't plug and promote yourself and "shine" when she's around either.
Can you fight back? Uh...it depends , but mostly no. You need to keep your nose clean and don't do anything she can report you for. If she does something bad enough you can report her, but if she's keeping it subtle, then probably not. And whether or not it will do you any good to report her is going to depend entirely on what your higher ups are like and how much they are fine and dandy with putting up with her vs. you. She's liked and has power there so that's not awesome for you. And most people would rather keep a bully and get rid of the bullied than vice versa, for whatever crackassed reason. You don't really have any leverage here.
"Team" is a joke and a lie in some work contexts. Sometimes "team" is just that you're all in the same group. There's competition because it somehow pays off here to compete and tear down rather than to support and build up. That is the culture of this particular office (not all offices). What are you supposed to do about being new and having no power? Um, nothing, there isn't anything you can do. Not all offices are like this, but it seems be the culture here, and either you buy into it or you leave.
It sounds like the only time she's nice to you is if you're in some kind of pickle. If you're already lower down/in need/whatever, that actually brings out a good side? If I were you, work on that. She needs someone to be lower down in order for her to feel good about herself. Asking her for help a lot *might* help, but that's about the only hopeful thing I can think of for you. I'd otherwise say to ignore/stay quiet around her and keep to yourself, lower your expectations and generally try to blend in with the nearest wall.
"Shining" is a baaaaaaaaad idea here, I think. You mention wanting to do that a LOT and I just get a bad feeling at this idea. In some places shininess is a bad social move and it is possible that she considers you some kind of showoff or something and finds this annoying/offputting and that's maybe why she wants to put you down. I can't say for sure but it sounds likely.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:56 PM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Do the absolute 100% best job that you can, document your work and let the chips fall where they may. If this person is actively undermining you, document enough via email, etc. so that you can prove it. If they're not undermining you, then you can let the quality of your work speak for you. If you work in a place where quality doesn't matter, work somewhere else.
posted by cnc at 6:45 PM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by cnc at 6:45 PM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by parmanparman at 9:22 AM on March 30, 2018