Family tree and geneaology word problem
March 26, 2018 8:35 PM Subscribe
What's my 2nd cousin once removed to my 2nd cousin on the other side?
Holly is my second cousin on my mother's side (by blood). Keli is my husband's brother's wife's second cousin (in other words, my sister-in-law's second cousin by blood). I believe that makes Keli my second cousin, once removed, but I'm not sure.
What are Holly and Keli to each other, family-relationship-technically-speaking? (And am I right about Keli being my second cousin once removed?)
Thanks so much! I looked at charts and couldn't wrap my head around it.
xo
Holly is my second cousin on my mother's side (by blood). Keli is my husband's brother's wife's second cousin (in other words, my sister-in-law's second cousin by blood). I believe that makes Keli my second cousin, once removed, but I'm not sure.
What are Holly and Keli to each other, family-relationship-technically-speaking? (And am I right about Keli being my second cousin once removed?)
Thanks so much! I looked at charts and couldn't wrap my head around it.
xo
Best answer: If I'm understanding the relationships correctly, Keli is not related to you. Holly and Keli are not related to each other.
To find out how someone is related to you: go up the family tree until you get to a common ancestor. Count how many steps in the longer person's path (between them and the common ancestor) and subtract one. That is what level cousin you are. The difference in steps between the two of you is how many times removed you are.
If not you but your husband can go up the tree to a common ancestor, that is "in-law" beyond that, if there is no common ancestor, there is no relation.
posted by brainmouse at 8:56 PM on March 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
To find out how someone is related to you: go up the family tree until you get to a common ancestor. Count how many steps in the longer person's path (between them and the common ancestor) and subtract one. That is what level cousin you are. The difference in steps between the two of you is how many times removed you are.
If not you but your husband can go up the tree to a common ancestor, that is "in-law" beyond that, if there is no common ancestor, there is no relation.
posted by brainmouse at 8:56 PM on March 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: First, the basics: "removed" means generational differences. So your parents' siblings children are your first cousins. Your first cousins' children are your first cousins, once removed (and you are their first cousin once removed--the generation gap can go in either direction). Your second cousins are your grandparents' siblings' grandchildren--so again, they are on the same generational order as you are. Your grandparents' siblings' children--who are also your parents' cousins--would be your second cousins once removed. So Keli is not your second cousin once removed.
Indeed, Keli isn't your cousin of any sort, nor is she your husband's cousin. In theory she could be called your brother-in-law's second cousin-in-law, but in practice we don't really use the term "cousin-in-law" in English. Also, your husband's brother's wife is your husband's sister-in-law, but that does not make her your sister-in-law. Spanish has a term for this relationship, concuñado/a that translates as "co sibling-in-law" meaning that both you and your husband's sister-in-law "married into" the fraternal set from the outside.
The only way to describe the relationship between Holly and Keli is to just spell it all out: Keli is Holly's second cousin's [you] husband's sister-in-law's second cousin.
posted by drlith at 8:59 PM on March 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Indeed, Keli isn't your cousin of any sort, nor is she your husband's cousin. In theory she could be called your brother-in-law's second cousin-in-law, but in practice we don't really use the term "cousin-in-law" in English. Also, your husband's brother's wife is your husband's sister-in-law, but that does not make her your sister-in-law. Spanish has a term for this relationship, concuñado/a that translates as "co sibling-in-law" meaning that both you and your husband's sister-in-law "married into" the fraternal set from the outside.
The only way to describe the relationship between Holly and Keli is to just spell it all out: Keli is Holly's second cousin's [you] husband's sister-in-law's second cousin.
posted by drlith at 8:59 PM on March 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Remove indicates a generational difference. Cousin-in-law isn't used much but you could say that Keli is your husband's second cousin-in-law by marriage, and since it's already "by marriage" she would be the same to you. Unfortunately beyond that, English doesn't have good terms for relatives that aren't descended at some point from a common ancestor. So my best guess is that Keli is Holly's second cousin's second cousin-in-law by marriage, and Holly is Keli's second cousin-in-law by marriage's second cousin.
posted by notquitemaryann at 9:00 PM on March 26, 2018
posted by notquitemaryann at 9:00 PM on March 26, 2018
Best answer: Also, your husband's brother's wife is your husband's sister-in-law, but that does not make her your sister-in-law.
In my version of American English, my husband's brother is my brother-in-law, and my sister's husband is also my brother-in-law, and my husband also calls my sister's husband his brother-in-law, so in this case, I'm pretty sure I would say that your husband's brother's wife *is* your sister-in-law...and I guess, that Keli is your brother-in-law's second-cousin-in-law...although I don't think I would say she is your second-cousin-in-law. I don't think she's related to you even by in-law relations (even though I would say your sister-in-law is related to you).
This is what my Grandma used to call "kith" (as in, kith and kin). Or sometimes this is the realm of "aunties".
posted by leahwrenn at 9:40 PM on March 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
In my version of American English, my husband's brother is my brother-in-law, and my sister's husband is also my brother-in-law, and my husband also calls my sister's husband his brother-in-law, so in this case, I'm pretty sure I would say that your husband's brother's wife *is* your sister-in-law...and I guess, that Keli is your brother-in-law's second-cousin-in-law...although I don't think I would say she is your second-cousin-in-law. I don't think she's related to you even by in-law relations (even though I would say your sister-in-law is related to you).
This is what my Grandma used to call "kith" (as in, kith and kin). Or sometimes this is the realm of "aunties".
posted by leahwrenn at 9:40 PM on March 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the great answers. I didn't realize my husband could be related to someone and I am not. I thought that if he was related, I was related, just by marriage instead of blood.
Also, you all made me realize that Holly is actually my first cousin once removed because she is my mom's first cousin. I definitely consider my brother-in-law's wife my sister-in-law so that was weird to hear that we are not "related." I guess now I have to think of what "related" means then!
Thanks again!
posted by letahl at 8:19 AM on March 27, 2018
Also, you all made me realize that Holly is actually my first cousin once removed because she is my mom's first cousin. I definitely consider my brother-in-law's wife my sister-in-law so that was weird to hear that we are not "related." I guess now I have to think of what "related" means then!
Thanks again!
posted by letahl at 8:19 AM on March 27, 2018
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Keli isn't your second cousin once removed - but Holly's children are your second cousins once removed. "Once removed" refers to them being from a different generation.
If you put everyone into a free tree at Ancestry, it'll helpfully tell you what relation they all are to you (or whoever you set as the home person).
posted by intensitymultiply at 8:56 PM on March 26, 2018 [4 favorites]