my lungs hurt.

February 2, 2006 10:01 AM

third-hand smoke: is this possible?

We recently had a gentleman join our workplace who is a smoker. I sit in the cubicle right next to him and the smell of smoke from him is overwhelming in my cubicle. (other coworkers have come into my cubicle and commented on the smell) He is not smoking in the office, but probably takes a smoke break or two throughout the day. I am starting to develop a phlegmy cough and my lungs ache, much like if I've been in a smoky bar for a while.
Is it possible to be affected by this "third-hand" smoke or it is just psychosomatic? (I HATE the smell of smoke)
Is there anything I can do to mitigate the problem? I don't want to change cubicles because I'm in a good location, near the people I work with most. I don't want to say/do anything because he is the boss' best friend and I fear the reprocussions. (plus, he's a nice guy, and I don't want to offend)

posted by j to Health & Fitness (36 answers total)

Doesn't really help, but isn't that still second-hand smoke? Theres just the smoker, and you. There's not much you can do about the guy stinking of smoke, other than trying to get him to quit...
posted by Orange Goblin at 10:05 AM on February 2, 2006

I feel for you. I used to sit next to--actually SHARED A CUBE WITH---a horrible woman who smoked many times throughout the day. The stench she brought into the building was repellent. I think it's definitely second-hand smoke. I think employers should fire people who have to smoke at all during the day.
posted by jayder at 10:11 AM on February 2, 2006

Response by poster: Now that you say that, I'm not really sure. He's not directly smoking in the office, so I didn't think it was what is traditionally thought of as second-hand smoke.
But either way, I don't think he's quitting any time soon.
posted by j at 10:11 AM on February 2, 2006

Sounds psychosomatic to me. But what do I know?

Regardless, it seems like the only solution is to move. But as you've ruled that out, you're stuck. Perhaps an air freshener of some kind? A device specifically designed to remove the smell of smoke?
posted by aladfar at 10:12 AM on February 2, 2006

It's psychosomatic.

It's not second hand smoke, or third hand smoke, or any kind of smoke at all. Unless this guy returns from the smoking area in flames, you are not being exposed to smoke.

Maybe you're developing a cold, which would explain the cough, because if your respiratory system is so delicate as to go Defcon 1 when confronting nothing more than an odor you dislike, see a doctor.
posted by rentalkarma at 10:15 AM on February 2, 2006

Maybe a mild antihistamine (like half a Benadryl, or one of the non-drowsy alternatives) for a while, until you get used to his presence? Drinking extra water could be beneficial too, but yeah, an air freshener or some potpourri would probably be very helpful.
posted by Gator at 10:17 AM on February 2, 2006

Request a move to a new cubicle. Or request that he be moved to a new cubicle.

I'm sure the cough is psychosomatic (sort of), but still, you shouldn't have to sit next to someone who stinks. I say sort of on psychosomatic, because I don't believe that the smell is giving you lung disease or anything, but isn't it a natural reflex (used in the non-technical sense of the word) to cough when encountering a strong unpleasant smell?

Now this is the part where you all get to laugh at my complete lack of scientific knowledge. If you smell X doesn't that mean there are X particles floating in the air that you're inhaling? Therefore, if you smell cigarette smoke coming off of someone's clothes, doesn't that mean that their clothes are releasing some of the same chemicals as are in cigarette smoke into the air? Surely in far small quantities than most second hand smoke would involve, and maybe the chemicals responsible for the smell aren't the same ones that cause health effects, but still, if you can smell cigarette smoke it's because the stuff that's in cigarette smoke is in the air, right?
posted by duck at 10:21 AM on February 2, 2006

Smells are chemicals dissolved in air.

Smoke are solid particles suspended in air.

I'm sure somebody can give me an counterexample, but if bad smells hurt you, every hospital employee, janitor, plumber, and garbageman would get hazard pay.
posted by rentalkarma at 10:30 AM on February 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

Febreeze and a small fan are your friends in this situation.
You can't control how the guy smells or where your cube is, but you can control what your cube smells like.

An odor-triggered headache or nauseau wouldn't be out of the question, but I think the cough/achey lungs are probably psychosomatic. If you can make your cube smell better, you might feel better too.
posted by booknerd at 10:34 AM on February 2, 2006

Smells are chemicals dissolved in air.

Smoke are solid particles suspended in air.

Thanks...Can you explain what differnece this makes in terms of potential harm? The obvious difference is that solids physically clog up your lungs while disolved chemicals wouldn't.

, but if bad smells hurt you, every hospital employee, janitor, plumber, and garbageman would get hazard pay.

Note that I didn't say bad smells could hurt you. What I was implying was that some chemicals can hurt you if you inhale them. If the reason there's a bad smell is that you're inhaling a toxic chemical, then presumably the toxic chemical could harm you. so the causal chain wouldn't be smell -> harm, but chemical-> smell and chemical-> harm.

So for example, if you smelled mustard gas, that would probably correlate with harm. Not because the smell of mustard gas harmed you, but because smelling mustard gas is correlated with the presence of mustard gas and mustard gas is harmful.

So what are the chemicals from cigarette smoke that end up dissolved in the air off someone's jacket? Is inhaling those chemicals harmful? Surely not in the small quantities likely to be occuring here, but I still think the if-you-smell-it-its-in-the-air point is relevant.
posted by duck at 10:39 AM on February 2, 2006

At least part of what you're experiencing is psychosomatic. It's a lot like my reaction to people who don't wash their clothes often enough, have rotten body odor, or worse, both. They stink and often don't realize it, but it makes me feel physically ill.

So... I think you're being directly affected mentally more than physically, though the physical side kicks in once you start gagging and imagining wormy smoke monsters crawling through your lungs. :-)

I don't smoke -- never have -- but on occasion have worked with smokers. Heck, back in the day, they smoked in the office, ashes dripping into the keyboards, plastic monitor casings getting all funky, burn marks everywhere. Cool, huh? Anyway, here are some suggestions:

* realize that it's the stank, not the smoke, that's affecting you the most
* ask your mgr to be moved a cube or two away
* get a discreet air freshener of some sort for your cube
* depending on the smoker, joke about the pungent aroma (careful here)
* drink really strong tea; it can act as an air freshener; plus antioxident rich teas like quality green or white teas might help your mind feel healthier; try genmaicha, or chai, etc.
* when the smoker comes back in from his break, use the opportunity to get up and take a break yourself; I have found that the really noxious odor wanes after a few minutes (maybe 10-15)
* get a new job

Sorry, I didn't list getting the smoker fired (or sued or killed or beaten in the public square) because it's legal to smoke and the company already hired him without requiring that he quit.
posted by mumeishi at 10:44 AM on February 2, 2006

I've had the exact same problem. The person in the next cube would come back from their smoke breaks reaking of smoke that permeated my cube. I talked to my manager about it, who talked to his manager about it.

It's likely that your workplace has standards for cleanliness and personal grooming, and if you can smell this person in the next cube, then he's not meeting them. If a coworker came in smelling of cat urine, it would be the same deal.
posted by Laen at 10:52 AM on February 2, 2006

We have some smokers in my current office, and I've had some in previous jobs, who do the exact same thing. They'll go outside and smoke and come back fucking reeking. It seems inevitable that they will need to talk to me first thing about something and therefore breathe their hellishly nasty, toxic, putrid breath in my face like it's no big deal. Then of course they get seated in the cube next to me and allow their general awfulness to just waft about.

I'm right with you. I don't think it's physically dangerous but it's absolutely disgusting. It's like if I went out and ran two miles at lunch and came back dripping with sweat and body odor and did nothing about it, I'm sure people would have an issue.
posted by xmutex at 10:55 AM on February 2, 2006

I'll concur with others that what is making you feel ill is the smell, and that won't give you cancer (although if you're totally disgusted by it, I can see how it could make you revolted enough to start developing breathing problems). But whether or not you'll get cancer (or breathing problems) from second hand smoke isn't the issue -- you shouldn't have to sit next to the guy. I sympathize. THAT is what you should fix. Don't worry about the health problems, because you're right in thinking they're psychosomatic.
posted by incessant at 10:55 AM on February 2, 2006

addendum: I dont think this is purely psychosomatic, I think the man can honestly smell badly of smoke. And the type/quality of tobacco really does affect how the smoker smells to you. The smoke permeates skin, clothes, hair, changing its odor.

It's kind of like an aftertaste, let's call it an after-scent.

For example, people that smell of smoking Winstons a pack a day, for example, smell AWFUL to me, but for some reason I like the 'after-scent' of people that smoke Marlboro lights.

Consider also that he may not realize his smell is affecting others, as smoking as much as he probably does deadens his sense of smell. He probably smokes in his car on the way to work with the window all the way up.

Don't blame yourself for recognizing his smell by calling yourself psychosomatic. That's silly. Allow me to re-iterate (based on personal experience as a smoker): people that smoke regularly smell of it, and can't hide it completely unless they shower and put on clean clothes after smoking. Do what you can to manage and reduce it within reason - that will help your state of mind and probably even generate a placebo effect.
posted by tweak at 11:00 AM on February 2, 2006

and no, you won't die.
posted by tweak at 11:01 AM on February 2, 2006

There are air fresheners that are supposed to take bad smells out of the air (as opposed to just covering them up with "fresh linen" or "sunshine springtime" or whatever additional scents). Maybe you could sort of build a wall of those around yourself. I like the idea of the air freshener + fan, too.
posted by srah at 11:06 AM on February 2, 2006

A lot of air fresheners likely have more nasty chemicals in them than the smoke that you're smelling. Make sure you're not jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire with whatever solution you choose.

That said, I sympathize. I was gagging for the second half of a class the other day due to the "smoke break" in the middle.
posted by occhiblu at 11:14 AM on February 2, 2006

Ask HR to help you resolve the issue. May include better ventilation, or moving somebody's location. Air fresheners are nearly as bad as smoke to some people, so be cautios with that resolution. Keep gum in your office, and wear a scent that you like on a sleeve or hankie. When the smell is stronger, chew gum, smell something nicer, and it will help a little.
posted by theora55 at 11:18 AM on February 2, 2006

It's not psychosomatic. It's analogous to the dozens of kids with ear infections and sinusitus we see whose parents smoke outside the home. Their clothes reek every time we see them. Maybe there isn't a direct particulate being inhaled, but it's still an olfactory irritant and therefore capable of causing increased secretions.

I feel for you. If this were me I would be going apeshit. We have a nurse like this at our office and I literally cringe whenever she passes within ten feet of me.
posted by docpops at 11:21 AM on February 2, 2006

I'm not sure whereabouts you are, but I know that here in British Columbia, there are health and safety guidelines that deal with scents in the workplace. These apply to perfume and cologne, but have been applied to situations like yours in the past.

I'd suggest you speak with the health & safety representative for your office about the situation to see if any such regulations are in place for your state / city / jurisdiction, then take it from there.
posted by antifreez_ at 11:28 AM on February 2, 2006

Here's an idea: TALK to him about it; calmly and rationally. There are things smokers can do to radically reduce the smell of smoke.

As a smoker who is overly conscious of offending the non-smokers, I do what it takes to come back from my smoke breaks as odorless as possible. This includes stopping by the bathroom to brush my teeth, wash my hands and face and spray my clothing with Febreeze. Doing these things makes an incredible difference to the people around me.

I've always asked my coworkers to be upfront with me about it, and it's perfectly within reason to approach him about it - just don't attack him or he will most likely get defensive.

If he is unresponsive, THEN go to HR and try to get him fired.
posted by Bucket o' Heads at 11:39 AM on February 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

It's analogous to the dozens of kids with ear infections and sinusitus we see whose parents smoke outside the home.

It is most certainly not analogous. The guy just started working at J's office, never smokes in J's presence, and only takes between 1 and 2 smoke breaks a day.

That's just slightly different from kids who live with, grew up with, and are exposed to smokers and second-hand for years and years and years.

If one were so delicate as to begin shutting down at the mere whiff of a smoker, there is no way they could survive sitting in traffic, going to a bar, going to a restaurant, going to a casino, or sitting at a bus stop. If cigarettes were so toxic as to have the mere scent of a smoker -- not the cigarette, and not the smoke -- inflame the lungs, nobody would be able to survive the first drag of the first cigarette. They'd die on ignition.
posted by rentalkarma at 11:44 AM on February 2, 2006

One more thing -

This stuff is amazing. I typically buy it when I can find it. After smoking, if I spray down my clothes and hands (along with brushing my teeth), no one knows that I've smoked. If you do try and talk to him, recommend Banish - it will make everyone happier.
posted by Bucket o' Heads at 11:45 AM on February 2, 2006 [2 favorites]

To follow-up on Bucket o' Heads' great advice - try to be (or get his manager to be) specific about what steps he should take to reduce the odor.

You don't want him replacing the smoke smell with something equally obnoxious, like a really bad cologne or some off-brand air "freshener" that smells like a funeral home.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 11:52 AM on February 2, 2006

Purely anecdotal, but my son's pediatrician advised my husband, who smokes exclusively outside the home, to change his shirt and wash his hands before handling our son after smoking. This is the reason he now has a "smoking shirt", that he wears exclusively for that purpose. This may have a lot to do with the fact that my son was 2 months prematurely and his lung development was not as strong as other babies, though. The APA has concerns about secondhand smoke, and it says in the linked article that even SIDS is 4 times more likely to occur in children who have a caregiver that smokes, even purely outside the home. I know the original poster is an adult with mature lungs and the article doesn't really fit the context of the question, but my simpleton logic says to me that if it is harming children it must be harming us too, however slightly.
posted by Emperor Yamamoto's Eggs at 12:09 PM on February 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

If one were so delicate as to begin shutting down at the mere whiff of a smoker, there is no way they could survive sitting in traffic, going to a bar, going to a restaurant, going to a casino, or sitting at a bus stop.

Exactly. The world is full of pollutants, even if you can't smell them as easily as you might smell a purposely aromatic blend of burning leaves.

The phlegmy cough and aching lungs can't have anything to do with one guy slipping out for a smoke a couple of times a day. It sure could be a cold, though. Or your imagination.

BUT: smoking is bad for him, so you would not be sinning by suggesting to this guy that he quit smoking for his own health (not to mention because you "HATE the smell of smoke"). Maybe do it as a bet, if he seems like a betting man: if he can go a month without reeking of smoke (hint hint), you'll (give him X, do X, whatever). This will let him know that he smells (he might not realize it) and maybe it will get him to really quit. Assuming he takes it the right way, at worst you'll get a smoke-free month and have to pay up.
posted by pracowity at 12:13 PM on February 2, 2006

The APA has concerns about secondhand smoke, and it says in the linked article that even SIDS is 4 times more likely to occur in children who have a caregiver that smokes, even purely outside the home.

That seems to conflate two assertions in the original:

Being exposed to someone that smokes, even if they just smoke outside the home, is thought to increase a child's chance of having ear infections, allergies, asthma, wheezing, pneumonia and frequent upper respiratory tract infections.

and

And infants who are exposed to a caregiver that smokes, or a mother that smoked while she was pregnant, are up to 4 times more likely to die of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).

posted by pracowity at 12:18 PM on February 2, 2006

If one were so delicate as to begin shutting down at the mere whiff of a smoker, there is no way they could survive sitting in traffic, going to a bar, going to a restaurant, going to a casino, or sitting at a bus stop.

Yeah, that's why I'm glad I don't site in traffic and I live in places where it's illegal to smoke in bars, restaurants, casinos and bus stops.

addendum: I dont think this is purely psychosomatic, I think the man can honestly smell badly of smoke. And the type/quality of tobacco really does affect how the smoker smells to you. The smoke permeates skin, clothes, hair, changing its odor.

I wasn't suggesting (and I don't think others were suggesting) that the distaste at the gross smell is psychosomatic. Just that the cough is psychosomatic (or related to some other non-stinky-cubicle-related cause).

But talk to your boss or HR and have him not hang around the office when if he stinks of cigarette smoke, just like he shouldn't be hanging around the office if he stinks of anything else. I'm not suggesting having him fired, beaten or hanged, but "don't reek" is surely a reasonable expectation/requirement for an employer to have of an employee.
posted by duck at 12:28 PM on February 2, 2006

I scrolled through these a bit quickly, but I didn't find people who are ruling out an allergic reaction. It may be some allergic reaction you are getting to the residues that he is bringing in. If you can smell it, it is a chemical entity. If it is a chemical entity, it can cause an allergic reaction. People have noted that bad odors can trigger headaches. Odors can trigger migraines.
So - leftover smoke that clings to clothes is not going to cause cancer. However, there is no reason to assume you have a psychosomatic problem. Start first with a mild, non-sedating antihistamine, see if that helps. If it does help, but not enough, go to a heavier duty antihistamine. For the annoying smell, air freshener.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:03 PM on February 2, 2006

Pretty much what I said, then. :)
posted by Gator at 1:14 PM on February 2, 2006

Response by poster: Thanks for all your suggestions and kind support.
I work at a very tiny company in the US with no HR or health & safety people, and I wouldn't want to take a legal route anyway. (he is best friends with the boss -- if I were to go to try to get him fired, I would most likely end up on the chopping block)
I do wonder if there's something to what duck, docpops, and pracowity say, but I do think there could be some psychological component as well.
I think I am more sensitized to smoke than most, having grown up in a house with my mom, a smoker, who finally quit after 40 years (only when she was diagnosed with cancer, but is in remission now, yay!). When I go to any smoky venue, I feel like total garbage the next day or two. So, as dances_with_sneetches and Gator say, perhaps it is an allergy of some sorts. I don't feel like I'm getting sick, and I almost never get a cough when I get a cold.
I know the struggle my mom had with quitting and the embarassment and frustration her habit caused her, so I am nervous/uncomfortable to discuss this with a person I don't really know.
Thanks, Bucket, for the Banish suggestion and thanks to everyone for the advice about the fans, tea, air fresheners and benadryl.
You've all given me some things to try and think about and I really do appreciate it.
posted by j at 1:17 PM on February 2, 2006

As a sidebar to you, j, and the number of other personages offended by eau de tobacco: as with most cases of bodily odor, the owner is likely desensitized to it, moreso in this case as they are likely ejecting the smoke through their nose, both saturating it and dulling their senses somewhat.

If the smell itself bothers you, you might search here for the various BO issue questions that have been raised and try to reach some accomodation with your cube-mate.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 1:41 PM on February 2, 2006

Fill your cubicle with plants. Even if you have no sunlight, you can grow pothos. Peace lilies require a little TLC and consistant watering, but will also grow without sunlight.

Meanwhile, here's a sample approach to a gracious conversation with your co-worker:
"I don't care what anyone does on their own time, but I'm really sensitive to the smell of smoke. It's a pain to have a sensitive nose, but it's the only nose I've got, right? I don't want to sit over here resenting you, but the smoke smell is really, really bothering me. Maybe if you washed your hands and brushed your teeth/mouthwashed when you came back from a break, it would keep me from smelling the smoke?

The important thing is to keep your personal opinions about smoke out of it. Keep it about the odor, not about his habits.

Also, where does he hang his coat? If he goes out at night to smoky bars, his coat reeks worse than the actual cigarette.
posted by desuetude at 3:17 PM on February 2, 2006

An anecdotal aside to smokers who are worried about the offending odor. I've noticed that factory made cigarettes cause a longer lingering reek far and away beyond that of hand-rolled cigarettes. I believe the reason for this is the sulphur in the paper (added to keep the cigarette burning, so you smoke more). My non-scientific explanation for this phenomenon is that the sulphur somehow bonds with the smell chemicals, intensifies them and/or makes them cling.
posted by maniactown at 4:47 PM on February 2, 2006

In my experience, it's not just the hands/breath that's the problem, but the clothing. It helps if smokers stay outside and "air out" a bit before coming back in -- which is hard in the winter, and when you feel that your co-workers are already resenting your breaks and so you're trying to hurry back inside.
posted by occhiblu at 9:08 AM on February 3, 2006