Why do Europeans wear Speedos?
February 2, 2006 7:17 AM
Why do Europeans wear Speedos? What are they reviled by Americans? What can account for this vast difference in fashion consensus?
Europeans don't all wear Speedos.
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:23 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:23 AM on February 2, 2006
First wide shots I found of the following:
Spanish Beach
French Beach
Italian Beach
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:27 AM on February 2, 2006
Spanish Beach
French Beach
Italian Beach
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:27 AM on February 2, 2006
I guess I should withdraw the question, then, huh Tacos. Unless you think it might be more interesting to look beyond the first wide shots a web search turns up, and look a bit more deeply into the curious differences that can arise between two cultures. . .
Nah!
posted by It ain't over yet at 7:33 AM on February 2, 2006
Nah!
posted by It ain't over yet at 7:33 AM on February 2, 2006
Obesity isn't the epidemic in Europe as it is in North America, so I think they can get away with it over there. Also, they're less inhibited when it comes to sexuality and the sort.
posted by rinkjustice at 7:38 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by rinkjustice at 7:38 AM on February 2, 2006
Americans wear speedos. I used to wear them, but the shame got to be too much for me, so I switched to trunks.
(That's actualy a mostly serious answer. I expect that europeans are just less inherently ashamed of their bodies. They may also have less to be ashamed of.)
posted by lodurr at 7:40 AM on February 2, 2006
(That's actualy a mostly serious answer. I expect that europeans are just less inherently ashamed of their bodies. They may also have less to be ashamed of.)
posted by lodurr at 7:40 AM on February 2, 2006
As much as you may want to say it's due to obesity in Americans, old fat German men love Speedos.
posted by smackfu at 7:42 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by smackfu at 7:42 AM on February 2, 2006
And congregate at Daytona Beach instead of the beaches our Tacophile had pictures of.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:46 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:46 AM on February 2, 2006
I went to a public pool in Paris in 1998 and they wouldn't let me swim in my trunks - something about the filtration system. I had to rent a speedo, one of the more disgusting things I've ever done.
In both France and Switzerland, the amount of skin shown is much higher. It's perfectly OK (although not every woman does it) to go topless on the Lake Geneva shore. I can't think of any reason other than "culture." The American culture rejects a man wearing a speedo (unless he's swimming laps in a pool) or a woman without a top. Many other places do not.
posted by letitrain at 7:47 AM on February 2, 2006
In both France and Switzerland, the amount of skin shown is much higher. It's perfectly OK (although not every woman does it) to go topless on the Lake Geneva shore. I can't think of any reason other than "culture." The American culture rejects a man wearing a speedo (unless he's swimming laps in a pool) or a woman without a top. Many other places do not.
posted by letitrain at 7:47 AM on February 2, 2006
Shame? Hrm. Here I thought they were just ugly and 90% of the time the Europeans I see wearing them really shouldn't be wearing them...ya know, out of respect for other people's vision.
posted by Atreides at 7:47 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by Atreides at 7:47 AM on February 2, 2006
"Speedos" as you describe them, are more traditionally stylish (not to mention flamboyant) than wearing bermuda shorts or swimming shorts which is maybe why you will see a lot of Italian men wearing them. A lot of Germans are just chronically tasteless, sutck in 1986, and enjoy things like shellsuits, speedos, and oval horn rimmed glasses without shame. I have experienced the "No Swimming shorts permitted" signs in France. You have to wear speedos in some french swimming pools and I have no idea why. In the UK speedos are not popular and are rarely seen outwith pro swimming. I've never noticed the divide between American and Europe and wouldn't say there was one before I read this. Maybe there is.
posted by fire&wings at 7:50 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by fire&wings at 7:50 AM on February 2, 2006
whenever I got to the beach (Italy and France) I seldom see somebody wear Speedos anymore. having said that, whenever I'm swimming at my gym's pool, I do indeed wear Speedos, as do many other swimmers.
my experience, of course, so feel free to disregard.
what's the point of the question(s) again?
posted by matteo at 7:53 AM on February 2, 2006
my experience, of course, so feel free to disregard.
what's the point of the question(s) again?
posted by matteo at 7:53 AM on February 2, 2006
At least here the bans in swimming pools for "swimming shorts" are due to the presumption that they are used not just for swimming but as regular outdoor clothing as well. So hygiene.
posted by keijo at 7:55 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by keijo at 7:55 AM on February 2, 2006
It's not just Europeans. Growing up in Maine, before I heard the term "Speedo," my friends and I knew them as "French Canadian Swimsuits".
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:00 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:00 AM on February 2, 2006
As with many aggressively expansionist cultures throughout history, the US is permeated by extensive modes of cultural regulation. Cultures maintain their identity by deploying a wide range of stylised behaviours that serve to distinguish "us" from "them". A regime of depilatory and hair care rituals is one such common and quite successful technique that recurs repeatedly. Not for nothing did the Mediterranean cultures of the Classical period refer to those outside their cutlural remit as "barbarians", or "hairy ones".
What I have noticed in the US is that there is a greater tendency for people to fetishize the absence of hair on their sacred and profane flesh. An absence of hair where simple biology would place it implies a careful regimen of (sometimes painful) grooming, and this then establishes a cultural cachet about the person, a habitus of style and breeding. Both males and females in the US seem to engage more frequently in displays of both hair absence and hair presence (longer and more groomed hair on heads, for example).
The Speedo manages to display a liminal area of the body that verges on the sacred, and whose display presumably gives a cue about the current hair coverage of the genitals. In much of the US, this area is "supposed" to be enmeshed within a depilatory regime that fetishizes it to some tight grooming or paedophilic exhibition of complete depilation. Many people are unable or unwilling to devote the time and pain "necessary" to groom their genitals to conform to the expectations of the culture, and wearing Speedos would expose them to public discovery.
Hence the popularity of more extensive loin coverings. Boxers and swimming trunks hide a multitiude of sins against the culture. And I am not even going to get into public displays of fat.
posted by meehawl at 8:05 AM on February 2, 2006
What I have noticed in the US is that there is a greater tendency for people to fetishize the absence of hair on their sacred and profane flesh. An absence of hair where simple biology would place it implies a careful regimen of (sometimes painful) grooming, and this then establishes a cultural cachet about the person, a habitus of style and breeding. Both males and females in the US seem to engage more frequently in displays of both hair absence and hair presence (longer and more groomed hair on heads, for example).
The Speedo manages to display a liminal area of the body that verges on the sacred, and whose display presumably gives a cue about the current hair coverage of the genitals. In much of the US, this area is "supposed" to be enmeshed within a depilatory regime that fetishizes it to some tight grooming or paedophilic exhibition of complete depilation. Many people are unable or unwilling to devote the time and pain "necessary" to groom their genitals to conform to the expectations of the culture, and wearing Speedos would expose them to public discovery.
Hence the popularity of more extensive loin coverings. Boxers and swimming trunks hide a multitiude of sins against the culture. And I am not even going to get into public displays of fat.
posted by meehawl at 8:05 AM on February 2, 2006
In France I assume it's because people are far more comfortable with their own and other's bodies. Also a lot of American men have this idea that speedos are a gay thing and thus are taboo.
posted by nixerman at 8:23 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by nixerman at 8:23 AM on February 2, 2006
Watching 75 year old Hungarian retired peasant guys walking around their villages in summer win what appears to be their underwear will cure you forever of thinking of speedos as "sexy." East Europeans think of them as "summer shorts."
But as to the why? factor: I think that the Us gets its bathing suit culture from Britain, and pridishness decreed that covering up was done in homage to lingering Victorian fashions. Europeans rediscovered "le vacation" in the 1960s after two nasty decades of rebuilding from WWII. Buy the time they developed a swim wear industry they had little to tie them to the baggy legged past.
posted by zaelic at 8:32 AM on February 2, 2006
But as to the why? factor: I think that the Us gets its bathing suit culture from Britain, and pridishness decreed that covering up was done in homage to lingering Victorian fashions. Europeans rediscovered "le vacation" in the 1960s after two nasty decades of rebuilding from WWII. Buy the time they developed a swim wear industry they had little to tie them to the baggy legged past.
posted by zaelic at 8:32 AM on February 2, 2006
Americans tend to have more "unsightly bulges"
SO not true...
I think it may, among other things noted here, have something to do with the fact that Speedos highlight your package, which is is taboo in the United States of Puritania.
posted by mkultra at 8:33 AM on February 2, 2006
SO not true...
I think it may, among other things noted here, have something to do with the fact that Speedos highlight your package, which is is taboo in the United States of Puritania.
posted by mkultra at 8:33 AM on February 2, 2006
FWIW, my "shame" was at the "unsightly bulges" -- Um, I mean, not my package. Geez. Have to work not to make an entendre in this thread....
I wore them, when I did, because they realy are better for what I mostly do in a pool, which is swimming laps.
Just remembered another reason I switched: I used to tie my locker key to my laces, and that was obvious in the speedos....
posted by lodurr at 8:37 AM on February 2, 2006
I wore them, when I did, because they realy are better for what I mostly do in a pool, which is swimming laps.
Just remembered another reason I switched: I used to tie my locker key to my laces, and that was obvious in the speedos....
posted by lodurr at 8:37 AM on February 2, 2006
Two words: "banana hammock"
How can ANYTHING that has gained such a hilarious nickname be worn seriously? Since it's not really known as such in Europe, they don't mind wearing them.
Ok, yes, that's a complete BS theory, but I couldn't let this thread live on without SOMEBODY saying "banana hammock". In reality, I think it basically comes down to Europeans being more comfortable seeing skin than Americans are, as others above me have said. What with the whole topless girls in your average newspaper, etc etc etc
posted by antifuse at 8:37 AM on February 2, 2006
How can ANYTHING that has gained such a hilarious nickname be worn seriously? Since it's not really known as such in Europe, they don't mind wearing them.
Ok, yes, that's a complete BS theory, but I couldn't let this thread live on without SOMEBODY saying "banana hammock". In reality, I think it basically comes down to Europeans being more comfortable seeing skin than Americans are, as others above me have said. What with the whole topless girls in your average newspaper, etc etc etc
posted by antifuse at 8:37 AM on February 2, 2006
I think mkultra, antifuse et al are hitting it, the fact that the male package-bulge is now an obscenity in America (which wasn't the case several decades ago). What I find curious in this discussion is how Speedo (a company which sells all kinds of swimwear) has become indelibly associated with "bikini bottom on a male."
posted by Rash at 8:46 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by Rash at 8:46 AM on February 2, 2006
I would agree that the question is wrong but they are bit more likely over here...and then I think it's men of a certain age...which I think links, in some way I can't explain, to the fact that after a certain age no self respecting European male will wear shorts. Shorts are for children.
posted by anglophiliated at 8:48 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by anglophiliated at 8:48 AM on February 2, 2006
I think the shorts ban in French pools is due to the fact that shorts absorb a lot more water than speedos and so the pool needs topping up more often, and therefore uses more water, if everyone wears shorts. At least that's what I read somewhere.
I'd not heard Banana Hammock before - in Australia they refer to them as Budgie Smugglers.
posted by jontyjago at 8:53 AM on February 2, 2006
I'd not heard Banana Hammock before - in Australia they refer to them as Budgie Smugglers.
posted by jontyjago at 8:53 AM on February 2, 2006
Okay here's what I was thinking: that, in the States anyway, Speedos somehow carry a subtext of 'male dancer,' ie Chippendale's, formed in 1979. And that the queasiness some feel about men in Speedo's can be traced to the queasiness about male dancers -- which is not necessarily homophobia...
How common are male dancers in Europe? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question...
posted by It ain't over yet at 9:01 AM on February 2, 2006
How common are male dancers in Europe? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question...
posted by It ain't over yet at 9:01 AM on February 2, 2006
Also: marble bag.
posted by It ain't over yet at 9:02 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by It ain't over yet at 9:02 AM on February 2, 2006
It's also the antithesis of a well-tailored suit, where you're looking for symmetry, flowing lines, and the ability to draw your attention to the face. The Speedo covers the only part of the male anatomy that you can't reliably arrange symmetrically and draws the eye away from the face to the ridiculous shapes below. The Speedo laughs at sartorial wisdom.
posted by horsewithnoname at 9:35 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by horsewithnoname at 9:35 AM on February 2, 2006
I would say that our somewhat homophobic culture just really doesn't want to see painstakingly outlined male genitalia. I would include myself in that generalization.
With nothing further to add, here's a funny picture(self-link) of some old men in speedos on the beach in Barcelona.
posted by deafmute at 9:39 AM on February 2, 2006
With nothing further to add, here's a funny picture(self-link) of some old men in speedos on the beach in Barcelona.
posted by deafmute at 9:39 AM on February 2, 2006
Thank you all for the laughs on this thread, I really needed it. All of the above reasons touch on some of these points, and yes body shape in most Euro beaches has nothing to do with swimwear, male or female.
Having lived in a few countries in EU I found it was also because the attitude was more to get the sun and to swim as opposed to being seen. That's changing however, and the same body conciousness is creeping in which is why we are seeing a lot more shorts now.
posted by Wilder at 10:06 AM on February 2, 2006
Having lived in a few countries in EU I found it was also because the attitude was more to get the sun and to swim as opposed to being seen. That's changing however, and the same body conciousness is creeping in which is why we are seeing a lot more shorts now.
posted by Wilder at 10:06 AM on February 2, 2006
I'm European and I don't wear Speedos. I also don't know anybody who does. So there.
posted by sveskemus at 10:17 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by sveskemus at 10:17 AM on February 2, 2006
I'm probably wrong, but weren't a lot of Euros doing the nude bathing thing when Americans were still hitting the beach wearing 20 pounds of wool and scared of showing their ankles?
I think the Speedo is the next best thing to swimmin' nekkid; It's just a small concession to relatively new concept of public modesty.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:04 AM on February 2, 2006
I think the Speedo is the next best thing to swimmin' nekkid; It's just a small concession to relatively new concept of public modesty.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:04 AM on February 2, 2006
When I was a kid in Europe, Speedo was the only brand of swimwear - when you went to the pool to learn to swim, you wore Speedos and Speedo goggles, and the pool store pretty much only had Speedo products. So you're brought up thinking that swimming = Speedo.
posted by forallmankind at 11:09 AM on February 2, 2006
posted by forallmankind at 11:09 AM on February 2, 2006
"Marble bag"? TNot quite up to scratch with my two favourite Australian euphamisms - the blunt "dick togs", and the divine "budgie smugglers".
Some pools in Australia have similar rules about wearing "outside clothes" in the water, though they seem to be much more relaxed about it than when I was in school. Dick togs are still the number one choice for serious rather than recreational swimmers here, along with a rubber cap. If you're wearing dp's and have a pair of goggles, nobody here will spare you a second glance. A bronzed lifesaver in bright red pool daks and a goofy cap is an Australian icon, although they're starting to wear shorts a la Baywatch or bikepants lately.
Here's a nice article on the wide variety of terms used to describe swimwear in Australia. Stand tall - be proud of your noodlebenders!
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2006
Some pools in Australia have similar rules about wearing "outside clothes" in the water, though they seem to be much more relaxed about it than when I was in school. Dick togs are still the number one choice for serious rather than recreational swimmers here, along with a rubber cap. If you're wearing dp's and have a pair of goggles, nobody here will spare you a second glance. A bronzed lifesaver in bright red pool daks and a goofy cap is an Australian icon, although they're starting to wear shorts a la Baywatch or bikepants lately.
Here's a nice article on the wide variety of terms used to describe swimwear in Australia. Stand tall - be proud of your noodlebenders!
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2006
I'm European and I don't wear Speedos. I also don't know anybody who does. So there.
posted by sveskemus at 1:17 PM EST on February 2 [!]
I'll second that...
posted by ob at 1:39 PM on February 2, 2006
posted by sveskemus at 1:17 PM EST on February 2 [!]
I'll second that...
posted by ob at 1:39 PM on February 2, 2006
meehawl: In much of the US, this area is "supposed" to be enmeshed within a depilatory regime that fetishizes it to some...paedophilic exhibition of complete depilation.
Ummm... pedophilia?
While I understand that humans below a certain age rarely have hair around their genitals, it seems ridiculous to me that a preference for such a state should be associated with pedophilia. Personally, I really just don't like getting hair in my mouth.
posted by Netzapper at 2:37 PM on February 2, 2006
Ummm... pedophilia?
While I understand that humans below a certain age rarely have hair around their genitals, it seems ridiculous to me that a preference for such a state should be associated with pedophilia. Personally, I really just don't like getting hair in my mouth.
posted by Netzapper at 2:37 PM on February 2, 2006
it seems ridiculous to me that a preference for such a state should be associated with pedophilia
You're fully entitled to your opinion. However, I disagree. I see clear paralells between some current US cultural practices and the valourisation of the exhibition of Ephebophilia/Paedophilia in ancient Mediterranean cultures, as explored in The History of Sexuality : The Care of the Self. It goes hand in hand with a current vogue for lolicon.
posted by meehawl at 9:27 PM on February 2, 2006
You're fully entitled to your opinion. However, I disagree. I see clear paralells between some current US cultural practices and the valourisation of the exhibition of Ephebophilia/Paedophilia in ancient Mediterranean cultures, as explored in The History of Sexuality : The Care of the Self. It goes hand in hand with a current vogue for lolicon.
posted by meehawl at 9:27 PM on February 2, 2006
To snark, meehawl: Classical cultures of the Mediterranean period did not refer to foreigners as "hairy ones" at all, but rather as "the guys what don't talk good".
posted by jacalata at 12:25 AM on February 3, 2006
Ah, the "bar-bar" thing.
Most words for "outsiders" translate into simply "them", versus "us". My favourite is saxon/welsh. "Saxon" is cognate with stranger in most celtic languages, while "Welsh" means foreigner in old saxon.
barbarian (in English)
1549 Compl. Scot. xiii. 106 Euere nation reputis vthers nations to be barbariens, quhen there tua natours and complexions ar contrar til vtheris
What really counts is not so much the signifier, which usually boils down deployment as a simple binary divider, but the signified. What did they mean when they referred to "barbarians"? For the Classical Greeks and Romans, a barbarian was someone who was unkempt, did not keep their hair short and cut within the normative style, had no knowledge of the correct rhetorical postures to be used during formal speech, and had no meaningful patronymics in their name. Most notably, for the Greeks, it was also a person who had no appreciation for how to eat good fish.
posted by meehawl at 6:17 AM on February 3, 2006
Most words for "outsiders" translate into simply "them", versus "us". My favourite is saxon/welsh. "Saxon" is cognate with stranger in most celtic languages, while "Welsh" means foreigner in old saxon.
barbarian (in English)
1549 Compl. Scot. xiii. 106 Euere nation reputis vthers nations to be barbariens, quhen there tua natours and complexions ar contrar til vtheris
What really counts is not so much the signifier, which usually boils down deployment as a simple binary divider, but the signified. What did they mean when they referred to "barbarians"? For the Classical Greeks and Romans, a barbarian was someone who was unkempt, did not keep their hair short and cut within the normative style, had no knowledge of the correct rhetorical postures to be used during formal speech, and had no meaningful patronymics in their name. Most notably, for the Greeks, it was also a person who had no appreciation for how to eat good fish.
posted by meehawl at 6:17 AM on February 3, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by adamrice at 7:21 AM on February 2, 2006