Tax preparer connundrum
February 21, 2018 1:06 PM Subscribe
My tax preparer fired me when I pushed back on a 140% fee increase. What would you do in this situation? Warning : wall of text within.
I have been using the same tax preparer for seven years now. She's always been great: competent and quick, and reasonable fees. This year, when I went to hire her, the program that I used to upload my documents was different, but there was otherwise no indication that she had merged her client base with a new tax prep firm, until I was contacted by the assistant to this new tax prep guy, who I'd never met or heard of and wasn't aware I'd hired, asking for some missing docs. This alarmed me for a couple reasons: first, I had never heard of these people, and second, I had actually uploaded the docs in question, so it made me nervous that maybe there were other missing docs, so I went in and did an audit of all the docs (there were over 50 of them) and provided the firm with a list to make sure everything was coming through on their end. Turned out they had them, someone just hadn't printed them all. Oh and by the way, who the heck are you people? Oh, she's merged with our firm, your taxes might be done by me, might be done by her.
OK, well... this was a pretty complicated tax year, and I was nervous about someone new being brought in when some knowledge of things from prior years was needed (I had sold a rental property, so things like depreciation, recapture, etc. from previous years came into play). But what could I do? They were already working on my file, and the tax guy at least seemed competent (if not the person who printed all the stuff out), so I just kind of went with it.
They uploaded the completed taxes yesterday, and two things immediately stood out: first, they'd screwed up some of the W-2 info, and second, the fee was EXTREMELY high. The previous year I'd paid $500, this year the fee was $1200.
I pushed back. This is a 140% increase. I knew the taxes were a bit more complicated that the previous year, but not $700 extra dollars more complicated. Moreover, I felt like for that huge fee I had gotten worse service and less competence than in previous years. I cc'ed my original accountant in the email stating that the fee was a surprise -- and she replied-all and agreed with me that it seemed to be too much of an increase and that she had been told that fees would remain the same as before the merger. I asked to meet in the middle of that $700 increase: a $350 increase to $850 instead. I also stated that coming down on the fee would mean the difference between good and bad yelp review (which I belatedly looked at his yelp reviews, and they're pretty bad) but that if the final decision would be that I had to pay the full $1200, I would just pay it and not waste any more of their time.
So the new accountant just emailed back saying he was deleting my file, and telling me to find someone else to do my taxes. Original accountant was also still cc'ed, and he put her on notice that from now on all her clients would be required to pay a retainer first.
On the one hand, I feel terrible that I caused problems between original tax lady and her new partner, I always liked original tax lady, but on the other hand, there was zero communication from them about what was happening, zero transparency about fees, there were mistakes made that make me nervous that maybe other mistakes might be in there that I don't know about, AND that fee was such a steep increase, I don't feel like I was out of line to push back against the fee -- but was I?
And my big question. Should I:
1. Use the pdf of the complete tax return, that I already have in my possesion, to file my taxes? If so, should I leave his name on it, as the preparer, or white it out?
OR
2. Find a new tax preparer and start all over again? If so, should I provide them with a copy of the tax return that was already completed, or just have them do it all over again from scratch?
Bonus question: should I write the bad Yelp review that I want to write?
I have been using the same tax preparer for seven years now. She's always been great: competent and quick, and reasonable fees. This year, when I went to hire her, the program that I used to upload my documents was different, but there was otherwise no indication that she had merged her client base with a new tax prep firm, until I was contacted by the assistant to this new tax prep guy, who I'd never met or heard of and wasn't aware I'd hired, asking for some missing docs. This alarmed me for a couple reasons: first, I had never heard of these people, and second, I had actually uploaded the docs in question, so it made me nervous that maybe there were other missing docs, so I went in and did an audit of all the docs (there were over 50 of them) and provided the firm with a list to make sure everything was coming through on their end. Turned out they had them, someone just hadn't printed them all. Oh and by the way, who the heck are you people? Oh, she's merged with our firm, your taxes might be done by me, might be done by her.
OK, well... this was a pretty complicated tax year, and I was nervous about someone new being brought in when some knowledge of things from prior years was needed (I had sold a rental property, so things like depreciation, recapture, etc. from previous years came into play). But what could I do? They were already working on my file, and the tax guy at least seemed competent (if not the person who printed all the stuff out), so I just kind of went with it.
They uploaded the completed taxes yesterday, and two things immediately stood out: first, they'd screwed up some of the W-2 info, and second, the fee was EXTREMELY high. The previous year I'd paid $500, this year the fee was $1200.
I pushed back. This is a 140% increase. I knew the taxes were a bit more complicated that the previous year, but not $700 extra dollars more complicated. Moreover, I felt like for that huge fee I had gotten worse service and less competence than in previous years. I cc'ed my original accountant in the email stating that the fee was a surprise -- and she replied-all and agreed with me that it seemed to be too much of an increase and that she had been told that fees would remain the same as before the merger. I asked to meet in the middle of that $700 increase: a $350 increase to $850 instead. I also stated that coming down on the fee would mean the difference between good and bad yelp review (which I belatedly looked at his yelp reviews, and they're pretty bad) but that if the final decision would be that I had to pay the full $1200, I would just pay it and not waste any more of their time.
So the new accountant just emailed back saying he was deleting my file, and telling me to find someone else to do my taxes. Original accountant was also still cc'ed, and he put her on notice that from now on all her clients would be required to pay a retainer first.
On the one hand, I feel terrible that I caused problems between original tax lady and her new partner, I always liked original tax lady, but on the other hand, there was zero communication from them about what was happening, zero transparency about fees, there were mistakes made that make me nervous that maybe other mistakes might be in there that I don't know about, AND that fee was such a steep increase, I don't feel like I was out of line to push back against the fee -- but was I?
And my big question. Should I:
1. Use the pdf of the complete tax return, that I already have in my possesion, to file my taxes? If so, should I leave his name on it, as the preparer, or white it out?
OR
2. Find a new tax preparer and start all over again? If so, should I provide them with a copy of the tax return that was already completed, or just have them do it all over again from scratch?
Bonus question: should I write the bad Yelp review that I want to write?
I have the world's most complicated taxes and I don't think I've ever paid more than about $600-700 (I live in Vermont, but still). I think pushing back on the increase was fine, you seemed willing to compromise. I would take the PDF of the done taxes and bring them to a new accountant and have your taxes re-done because those people seem sketchy and if they did do something wrong, the last thing you want is to fight with them about it if it comes back to you. Bad Yelp review sounds decent, not a grumpy ranty one but just a factual one (more or less like you've stated things here). If you feel like it, drop your old tax preparer a note saying it's been nice working with her. Who knows, maybe she'll burn out with these jerks and no sense burning bridges.
posted by jessamyn at 1:18 PM on February 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 1:18 PM on February 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
Use the pdf of the complete tax return, that I already have in my possesion, to file my taxes? If so, should I leave his name on it, as the preparer, or white it out?
Paid tax preparers have to sign the return, so it will likely be rejected if there's preparer information and no preparer signature.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:23 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Paid tax preparers have to sign the return, so it will likely be rejected if there's preparer information and no preparer signature.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:23 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
I also stated that coming down on the fee would mean the difference between good and bad yelp review
You're asking them to "buy" a good Yelp review. I can imagine why they're not excited to have to deal with such a customer. If you're going to do this the first year, I would suspect you're willing to do it in the future. I'm not saying this is a bad thing - I think it's great to negotiate on price - but you aren't presenting yourself as a long term customer that they should provide a short term break to.
I don't feel like I was out of line to push back against the fee -- but was I?
You were absolutely not out of line. It's always fair to question price. However, that goes two ways - it's always fair for them to reject your request. You should know that even on a $1200 transaction, they are not making a lot of money. Say they run a 20% profit margin (likely high) and bill their accountants at $100/hour (again, likely low). They burn through the $240 profit margin on your transaction by thinking about this for just over two hours. When you're faced with small scale transactions like this, business people tend to make quick decisions about whether something is worth their time or not. Yes, that can be perceived as rude - but it's just business.
Use the pdf of the complete tax return, that I already have in my possesion, to file my taxes?
I wouldn't do this, as you now have a return that nobody is accountable to. I mean, I think it's fair for you to do so - they effectively gave you something for free. I just wouldn't trust the results because if something was wrong, there's nobody I can go to for help.
Find a new tax preparer and start all over again?
Yes, you should do this. I think you can offer the copy completed, but I wouldn't expect them to take it - again, they have no reason to trust that it is accurate. It wouldn't be useful for them.
should I write the bad Yelp review that I want to write?
Yes, I think it's fair to do so - but keep it factual. They wasted your time in handling your taxes by doing work without disclosing fees and with new processes that you were not familiar with. That's not great behavior. However, rejecting your new price proposal is not bad behavior.
posted by saeculorum at 1:23 PM on February 21, 2018 [4 favorites]
You're asking them to "buy" a good Yelp review. I can imagine why they're not excited to have to deal with such a customer. If you're going to do this the first year, I would suspect you're willing to do it in the future. I'm not saying this is a bad thing - I think it's great to negotiate on price - but you aren't presenting yourself as a long term customer that they should provide a short term break to.
I don't feel like I was out of line to push back against the fee -- but was I?
You were absolutely not out of line. It's always fair to question price. However, that goes two ways - it's always fair for them to reject your request. You should know that even on a $1200 transaction, they are not making a lot of money. Say they run a 20% profit margin (likely high) and bill their accountants at $100/hour (again, likely low). They burn through the $240 profit margin on your transaction by thinking about this for just over two hours. When you're faced with small scale transactions like this, business people tend to make quick decisions about whether something is worth their time or not. Yes, that can be perceived as rude - but it's just business.
Use the pdf of the complete tax return, that I already have in my possesion, to file my taxes?
I wouldn't do this, as you now have a return that nobody is accountable to. I mean, I think it's fair for you to do so - they effectively gave you something for free. I just wouldn't trust the results because if something was wrong, there's nobody I can go to for help.
Find a new tax preparer and start all over again?
Yes, you should do this. I think you can offer the copy completed, but I wouldn't expect them to take it - again, they have no reason to trust that it is accurate. It wouldn't be useful for them.
should I write the bad Yelp review that I want to write?
Yes, I think it's fair to do so - but keep it factual. They wasted your time in handling your taxes by doing work without disclosing fees and with new processes that you were not familiar with. That's not great behavior. However, rejecting your new price proposal is not bad behavior.
posted by saeculorum at 1:23 PM on February 21, 2018 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: I should probably mention that either way, even if everything was golden this was my last year with this preparer -- they're in Oregon and I've moved to New York, and 2017 was the last year I had taxable events in Oregon. So yeah, I probably would not have mentioned reviews if I intended to keep any kind of relationship going.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:29 PM on February 21, 2018
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:29 PM on February 21, 2018
So the new accountant just emailed back saying he was deleting my file, and telling me to find someone else to do my taxes. Original accountant was also still cc'ed, and he put her on notice that from now on all her clients would be required to pay a retainer first.
That's some shady stuff. Is this guy off meds, or is he a con artist suspecting he's being called out?
I'd ask your original accountant what's up.
Regardless, sounds like you have all the paperwork in order, so finding an entirely new accountant/tax preparer should be the way to go. And if time is pressing, just pay the IRS your estimated amount due, and file an extension.
posted by Unsomnambulist at 3:03 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
That's some shady stuff. Is this guy off meds, or is he a con artist suspecting he's being called out?
I'd ask your original accountant what's up.
Regardless, sounds like you have all the paperwork in order, so finding an entirely new accountant/tax preparer should be the way to go. And if time is pressing, just pay the IRS your estimated amount due, and file an extension.
posted by Unsomnambulist at 3:03 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Had a not dissimilar situation a few years ago - details of the why aren't important, but I was faced with switching accountants with a month to go in tax season. Couple of observations based on my experience and what you've described:
#1 Don't worry about the yelp review right now. It is the least of your worries.
#2 I would not try to file whatever they gave you. As you said, new accountants fired you, you don't want to have them involved in your return in any way. If they are willing to just delete your files - after doing all of the work- and tell you to take a hike without a conversation, nothing can get better from here. I am betting there is more to this back story that you don't have (e.g. you were the last straw, or something, with this "merger"). You don't know anything about their reputation. Your old accountant isn't blameless in this situation, either.
#3 Don't think in terms of getting your taxes filed on time. It could happen, but a good accountant is going to already have a full load of work. Most likely scenario is that they are going to have to file for an extension, so be prepared for that.
#4 Related to point #3, don't just settle for the first accountant that will take you. I ended up with a much better/more suited to me accountant as a result of my switch. In hindsight, having a conversation in February or March about switching accountants and having a complicated tax situation is a good job interview ice breaker. The guy I ended up with was great and unfazed by the request.
Good luck!
posted by kovacs at 7:51 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
#1 Don't worry about the yelp review right now. It is the least of your worries.
#2 I would not try to file whatever they gave you. As you said, new accountants fired you, you don't want to have them involved in your return in any way. If they are willing to just delete your files - after doing all of the work- and tell you to take a hike without a conversation, nothing can get better from here. I am betting there is more to this back story that you don't have (e.g. you were the last straw, or something, with this "merger"). You don't know anything about their reputation. Your old accountant isn't blameless in this situation, either.
#3 Don't think in terms of getting your taxes filed on time. It could happen, but a good accountant is going to already have a full load of work. Most likely scenario is that they are going to have to file for an extension, so be prepared for that.
#4 Related to point #3, don't just settle for the first accountant that will take you. I ended up with a much better/more suited to me accountant as a result of my switch. In hindsight, having a conversation in February or March about switching accountants and having a complicated tax situation is a good job interview ice breaker. The guy I ended up with was great and unfazed by the request.
Good luck!
posted by kovacs at 7:51 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
1) New accountant, why would you trust this joker to be accurate?
2)the facts as stated in your question would make the a deliciously bad yelp review, and one I wouldn't hesitate to leave.
posted by smoke at 11:39 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
2)the facts as stated in your question would make the a deliciously bad yelp review, and one I wouldn't hesitate to leave.
posted by smoke at 11:39 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
They did the work in good faith. Yes, they should've gotten your approval, but it's crazy season for them. You've made your point with them. Unless the $700 would seriously impact my life, such as not being able to pay rent, I'd pay them the $700, have them file for you, not leave a yelp review, and move on.
posted by at at 2:31 AM on February 22, 2018
posted by at at 2:31 AM on February 22, 2018
I wouldn't trust the finished taxes based on everything you've said here. If it seemed like the work was top notch and correct, I might just pay it as a one time lesson to myself, but it doesn't seem like the work passes even a glance test. Find a new accountant, make sure you know the fee upfront. As for yelp, I would probably just keep it short and sweet "fees increased 140% and there were easily caught errors on the final form" no need to go into all the other stuff, that's what people care about.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 7:00 AM on February 22, 2018
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 7:00 AM on February 22, 2018
« Older What gift should we get for the family who housed... | Don't believe in the evil eye, but how do I ward... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
This seems pretty unprofessional to me. The whole outfit seems pretty unprofessional, from the missing-but-uploaded documents to the lack of up-front clarity about fees, to the surprise new tax preparer. I'm not impressed, either, with your old tax preparer. She should have given old customers some notice about whatever this merger was and what to expect or not expect from it.
I don't think you owe them anything, and I understand wanting to use the tax return they prepared and think you would be morally in the clear to use it. BUT, given how they are behaving but considering how unprofessional and sloppy they were I would hesitate to do so.
I would definitely leave a bad Yelp review and probably send something like what you've written above to whoever licenses accountants in your jurisdiction. These folks are playing fast and loose with other people's ability to survive an IRS audit.
You were willing to pay an accountant to do this work. Find an accountant, and pay them. It sucks that it won't be your longtime accountant, but those are the breaks.
posted by gauche at 1:14 PM on February 21, 2018 [17 favorites]