Lawsuit against medical practitioners, detriment to medical career?
October 21, 2017 10:59 PM Subscribe
Would having been involved in a malpractice/wrongful death settlement, involving a hospital, several doctors, and several nurses, somehow affect my chances at medical school admission, licensing and so on? I'm considering spending several years taking bridge classes, studying like crazy for MCAT, volunteering, etc. Should I not even bother having the "strike"/"red flag" etc (if that's even a thing) of having sued doctors? (I'm thinking of this somewhat like bar admission, where criminal history, for example, can prevent you from practicing law). Even if not professionally inhibiting, would I be a pariah among colleagues? What happens when doctors sue other doctors, if they even do? SHOULD I even consider a medical profession having been in a position where I felt their actions merited legal action?
A few years ago, I was tasked with handling an estate of a relative. This included bringing a medical malpractice / wrongful death lawsuit against those involved, which resulted in a settlement. I didn't really have a choice in handling the estate, and bringing suit felt like what the relative would have wanted, and all around the correct course of action. If it's relevant, I did benefit financially from this settlement. I'm now looking at changing careers, and am considering medicine. I have a non-science undergrad so there's a lot of foundation work I'd need to do, years to be honest. I really don't know how these past events would be looked at, if they're looked at, by medical schools and licensing boards. I have a lot of anxiety about very hard work, for a long time, only to be undone by a (pretty fair) bias against people that have sued other doctors. There's also a weird moral component of this that perhaps I can't elaborate properly... like, am I somehow WRONG to consider this career having threatened the careers of would-be colleagues? I really don't know. I would greatly appreciate any insight you'd have, as this isn't a topic I've been able to find anything about.
A few years ago, I was tasked with handling an estate of a relative. This included bringing a medical malpractice / wrongful death lawsuit against those involved, which resulted in a settlement. I didn't really have a choice in handling the estate, and bringing suit felt like what the relative would have wanted, and all around the correct course of action. If it's relevant, I did benefit financially from this settlement. I'm now looking at changing careers, and am considering medicine. I have a non-science undergrad so there's a lot of foundation work I'd need to do, years to be honest. I really don't know how these past events would be looked at, if they're looked at, by medical schools and licensing boards. I have a lot of anxiety about very hard work, for a long time, only to be undone by a (pretty fair) bias against people that have sued other doctors. There's also a weird moral component of this that perhaps I can't elaborate properly... like, am I somehow WRONG to consider this career having threatened the careers of would-be colleagues? I really don't know. I would greatly appreciate any insight you'd have, as this isn't a topic I've been able to find anything about.
You're over thinking this. Med schools will assess your academic record, MCAT, and letters of recommendation and that is literally it. If you do become at doctor, youll be judged on the quality of your work and whether you get along with colleagues. No one will know, nor would they care about an old legal case. If you were a lawyer who specialized in medical malpractice suits who then decided to be a doctor, that would raise some eyebrows, but a one-off lawsuit that sounds like it was warranted isn't going to even be a blip on the radar.
posted by emd3737 at 3:54 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by emd3737 at 3:54 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you have an uncommonly litigious nature, that would affect your admission to the bar in some states. But that has a different rationale - the committee wants to decrease the number of frivolous lawsuits out there. Plus that's not a concern society has for doctors.
Look closely at the med school application. Just in case it might change by the time you're done with med school, which might be several years. Does any of the character and fitness criteria have anything to do with what you were involved in? Not from the aspect of you bringing the suit maybe, but any statements you made about the medical profession in court for instance.
posted by thesockpuppet at 4:37 AM on October 22, 2017
Look closely at the med school application. Just in case it might change by the time you're done with med school, which might be several years. Does any of the character and fitness criteria have anything to do with what you were involved in? Not from the aspect of you bringing the suit maybe, but any statements you made about the medical profession in court for instance.
posted by thesockpuppet at 4:37 AM on October 22, 2017
Why would your name even be on the case- didn’t the estate sue? I’d look over the court documents and see how many times your name appears.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:07 AM on October 22, 2017
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:07 AM on October 22, 2017
As a caveat to all of this advice, I'm a current medical student, as well as a career changer/non-traditional student. I did the whole quit my job, go back to undergrad, apply to medical school, etc. You should absolutely feel free to MeMail questions you have about doing that!
With regard to how doctors think about litigiousness, it is not uncommon for physicians to privately discuss behaviors they've seen and describe them as malpractice. On a few occasions I have seen a physician explicitly tell a patient that they thought they "had a case" against another physician (this is more rare -- there are many physicians who do hew to the idea that what's done is done and it is worse to speak ill of another physician without having been present in the original situation and knowing all the details).
Most physicians, especially physicians in academic medicine, take providing appropriate medical care very seriously, and are aware and chagrined that sometimes care is not delivered well. When I imagine talking to my attendings about having brought a lawsuit against a physician in the past, I think that most of them would react by expressing their condolences that a loved one of mine had received care so poor that I felt I had to sue.
Unless the lawsuit you brought was specifically against one of the individual physicians at one of the individual institutions where are you applying or was headline, national news, I see no reason why anyone would ever be aware that this happened. Even if your suit was national news I doubt anyone involved in medical school admissions would remember it based solely on your name/face.
I was surprised by many things during the medical school admissions process (for example, being asked to submit SAT scores that were so old that the College Board had to get my score report "out of the archive"), but I can assure you that I was never, ever asked to disclose anything like this.
There is a trend towards asking more provocative behavioral-type interview questions now at some institutions so I can imagine in some possible universe you might show up to one interview and have someone ask you a hypothetical question about how you would handle it if you were bringing a malpractice suit or having one brought against you, but that's one very unlikely possible question out of many, many interviews. And, even then, you would have no obligation to bring up your history.
If I may, it does sound a bit like you are feeling anxious about potentially blowing up your life and doing something really hard, and looking for plausible roadblocks. This is not one.
posted by telegraph at 5:14 AM on October 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
With regard to how doctors think about litigiousness, it is not uncommon for physicians to privately discuss behaviors they've seen and describe them as malpractice. On a few occasions I have seen a physician explicitly tell a patient that they thought they "had a case" against another physician (this is more rare -- there are many physicians who do hew to the idea that what's done is done and it is worse to speak ill of another physician without having been present in the original situation and knowing all the details).
Most physicians, especially physicians in academic medicine, take providing appropriate medical care very seriously, and are aware and chagrined that sometimes care is not delivered well. When I imagine talking to my attendings about having brought a lawsuit against a physician in the past, I think that most of them would react by expressing their condolences that a loved one of mine had received care so poor that I felt I had to sue.
Unless the lawsuit you brought was specifically against one of the individual physicians at one of the individual institutions where are you applying or was headline, national news, I see no reason why anyone would ever be aware that this happened. Even if your suit was national news I doubt anyone involved in medical school admissions would remember it based solely on your name/face.
I was surprised by many things during the medical school admissions process (for example, being asked to submit SAT scores that were so old that the College Board had to get my score report "out of the archive"), but I can assure you that I was never, ever asked to disclose anything like this.
There is a trend towards asking more provocative behavioral-type interview questions now at some institutions so I can imagine in some possible universe you might show up to one interview and have someone ask you a hypothetical question about how you would handle it if you were bringing a malpractice suit or having one brought against you, but that's one very unlikely possible question out of many, many interviews. And, even then, you would have no obligation to bring up your history.
If I may, it does sound a bit like you are feeling anxious about potentially blowing up your life and doing something really hard, and looking for plausible roadblocks. This is not one.
posted by telegraph at 5:14 AM on October 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am an academic physician, though I do not sit on the admissions committee of any medical school. I strongly doubt that any admissions committee would think badly of the situation you've described here; rather the reaction is likely to be sympathy that you had to go through that on behalf of a loved one. There was a question on my state licensure exam (i.e. after having finished residency) about whether I had ever been named as a defendent in a malpractice case, but I don't think there was anything about it at the pre-med stage, and definitely nothing ever about being the plaintiff. So it's unlikely the admissions committee would know anything about it unless it was unusually high-profile and in the mainstream media (and even then...)
I will also point out that many academic physicians supplement their academic salary by being expert witnesses. This includes several of my attendings in medical school and residency, all of whom were well-respected in their respective fields, and none of whom seemed to be an outcast for "having threatened the careers of would-be colleagues." If it does come up, you could discuss how the experience gave you valuable perspective on that system.
posted by basalganglia at 5:31 AM on October 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I will also point out that many academic physicians supplement their academic salary by being expert witnesses. This includes several of my attendings in medical school and residency, all of whom were well-respected in their respective fields, and none of whom seemed to be an outcast for "having threatened the careers of would-be colleagues." If it does come up, you could discuss how the experience gave you valuable perspective on that system.
posted by basalganglia at 5:31 AM on October 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Setting aside the question of any official repercussions for this in terms of admissions, etc. (I agree with everyone who's posted above that I'm almost 100% sure there would be none) --
My dad's a doctor who suffered through a horrific malpractice suit that went to trial. He won, but the experience was genuinely traumatic for him, and left him what I'd say is a borderline-irrational hatred of the concept of malpractice, lawyers, all kinds of personal injury lawsuits, and the legal system in general. Like, he once refused to let me play with a little girl in my class because he thought her dad might be a personal injury lawyer, and he told me he'd disown me if I went to law school, and I believe him.
If a colleague of his told this story, of feeling obligated to bring a suit on behalf of the estate of a relative who'd passed away, and nonetheless feeling deeply uncomfortable about it and worrying about the careers of the medical professionals it might have adversely affected...I can't imagine him having a problem with that at all. He might not want to talk about it because it's a sore subject, but I'm sure there's no way he'd hold it against you.
It's the system that's broken, and he blames the people who are actively caught up in perpetuating it (lawyers and politicians) but he does not hold grudges against patients and their families. If he did, how could he practice? Doctors make mistakes and patients and their families suffer, and the fact that the system forces them into an adversarial position in the aftermath of that of is not the fault of any of the individuals involved. Not only am I sure he would forgive you, I think you should forgive yourself. It's not your fault our system is screwed up. You did what you had to do.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:02 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
My dad's a doctor who suffered through a horrific malpractice suit that went to trial. He won, but the experience was genuinely traumatic for him, and left him what I'd say is a borderline-irrational hatred of the concept of malpractice, lawyers, all kinds of personal injury lawsuits, and the legal system in general. Like, he once refused to let me play with a little girl in my class because he thought her dad might be a personal injury lawyer, and he told me he'd disown me if I went to law school, and I believe him.
If a colleague of his told this story, of feeling obligated to bring a suit on behalf of the estate of a relative who'd passed away, and nonetheless feeling deeply uncomfortable about it and worrying about the careers of the medical professionals it might have adversely affected...I can't imagine him having a problem with that at all. He might not want to talk about it because it's a sore subject, but I'm sure there's no way he'd hold it against you.
It's the system that's broken, and he blames the people who are actively caught up in perpetuating it (lawyers and politicians) but he does not hold grudges against patients and their families. If he did, how could he practice? Doctors make mistakes and patients and their families suffer, and the fact that the system forces them into an adversarial position in the aftermath of that of is not the fault of any of the individuals involved. Not only am I sure he would forgive you, I think you should forgive yourself. It's not your fault our system is screwed up. You did what you had to do.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:02 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've worked in med school administration for a long time, and I agree that this information would be very unlikely to even come up during the admissions process.
My bigger potential concern would be your age. You mention that this is a career change for you, and that you plan to study for several years before even applying to medical school. How old will you be when you apply? Thirty wouldn't be that much of a barrier, but forty might be. Medical schools and residency programs are cautious about taking on older trainees, who struggle more with the grueling hours and are less likely to adapt to being at the bottom of the pecking order. You'd also have to look at the financial risks. It's easy to incur debt of a quarter-million dollars or more for med school, and as an older physician, you'd have fewer years to pay that back and save for your retirement.
posted by timeo danaos at 7:03 AM on October 22, 2017
My bigger potential concern would be your age. You mention that this is a career change for you, and that you plan to study for several years before even applying to medical school. How old will you be when you apply? Thirty wouldn't be that much of a barrier, but forty might be. Medical schools and residency programs are cautious about taking on older trainees, who struggle more with the grueling hours and are less likely to adapt to being at the bottom of the pecking order. You'd also have to look at the financial risks. It's easy to incur debt of a quarter-million dollars or more for med school, and as an older physician, you'd have fewer years to pay that back and save for your retirement.
posted by timeo danaos at 7:03 AM on October 22, 2017
I'm not a doctor, but I'm a lawyer admitted in two states and I used to work medical malpractice defense. I can speak to a couple aspects of your question.
First, having a criminal record doesn't prevent you from practicing law. If you have a criminal record involving dishonesty—like a conviction for fraud or perjury—that's a significant issue you'll want to talk to someone about. Have you changed? Was your conviction last year, or was it fourteen years ago and before you straightened up and went to college, and now you've got multiple references commending your integrity? If your criminal record involves drunken driving or bar fights, then you're probably looking at similar questions but with less scrutiny...unless you try to conceal that record, of course. Again, honesty.
Second, I think you're overestimating the grudge most doctors have against malpractice plaintiffs. I'm sure there are doctors like the father described in the comments above, but most of my clients fell into one of two categories: either they knew they'd done something wrong, or they were confident they'd be fine and honestly they couldn't be bothered to care about the litigation. My firm's fees were being paid by insurance, after all. It wasn't uncommon for me to have to follow up multiple times. "Please get back to me, Doctor. I need those answers." They understand that malpractice suits happen, and the process is mostly good about keeping those suits off the doctors' radar as much as possible. Generally speaking, random patients don't need to worry about getting subpar treatment because their doctor is feeling distracted by a lawsuit.
I was surprised by many things during the medical school admissions process...but I can assure you that I was never, ever asked to disclose anything like this.
Ditto. One state wanted my Selective Service number, which I hadn't thought about in years and had to hurriedly obtain. But the only place I can recall seeing questions like, "Have you ever been party to a civil suit?" is during the discovery process of another suit.
But you needn't wonder. Figure out what state you'd be applying in, and explore the licensing process. You can probably get a copy of the application online, and if not, then contact the licensing body and find out exactly what they ask.
posted by cribcage at 9:04 AM on October 22, 2017
First, having a criminal record doesn't prevent you from practicing law. If you have a criminal record involving dishonesty—like a conviction for fraud or perjury—that's a significant issue you'll want to talk to someone about. Have you changed? Was your conviction last year, or was it fourteen years ago and before you straightened up and went to college, and now you've got multiple references commending your integrity? If your criminal record involves drunken driving or bar fights, then you're probably looking at similar questions but with less scrutiny...unless you try to conceal that record, of course. Again, honesty.
Second, I think you're overestimating the grudge most doctors have against malpractice plaintiffs. I'm sure there are doctors like the father described in the comments above, but most of my clients fell into one of two categories: either they knew they'd done something wrong, or they were confident they'd be fine and honestly they couldn't be bothered to care about the litigation. My firm's fees were being paid by insurance, after all. It wasn't uncommon for me to have to follow up multiple times. "Please get back to me, Doctor. I need those answers." They understand that malpractice suits happen, and the process is mostly good about keeping those suits off the doctors' radar as much as possible. Generally speaking, random patients don't need to worry about getting subpar treatment because their doctor is feeling distracted by a lawsuit.
I was surprised by many things during the medical school admissions process...but I can assure you that I was never, ever asked to disclose anything like this.
Ditto. One state wanted my Selective Service number, which I hadn't thought about in years and had to hurriedly obtain. But the only place I can recall seeing questions like, "Have you ever been party to a civil suit?" is during the discovery process of another suit.
But you needn't wonder. Figure out what state you'd be applying in, and explore the licensing process. You can probably get a copy of the application online, and if not, then contact the licensing body and find out exactly what they ask.
posted by cribcage at 9:04 AM on October 22, 2017
My great aunt is a nursing professor, and she brought a successful malpractice/wrongful death suit after my great uncle (a surgeon) died. Since they were both established medical professionals, much of their social circle consisted of other doctors, and she mentioned that she did feel ostracized by the medical community afterward. But this was in a very small town, and from what I understand it was kind of a borderline case. Also, it seems like norms have changed since then. It used to be that you were expected to defer to professional expertise, and if something bad happened, just accept it. Today, though, it's more acceptable to question authority, including professional authority.
I think you'll be ok, unless you plan to attend school, do your residency, and practice in the same community where the lawsuit occurred. And even then, as long as it's not a tiny, close-knit, conservative community, you should be good to go.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:59 PM on October 22, 2017
I think you'll be ok, unless you plan to attend school, do your residency, and practice in the same community where the lawsuit occurred. And even then, as long as it's not a tiny, close-knit, conservative community, you should be good to go.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:59 PM on October 22, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
To be blunt, though, the world does not need doctors who think they have some kind of special moral responsibility to cover up or overlook the misconduct of others who happen to be their colleagues, lest their careers be harmed. There are far too many of those already, and they help make it possible for those colleagues to get away with harming vulnerable people.
posted by praemunire at 2:31 AM on October 22, 2017 [5 favorites]