Is it me or does this occur at other workplaces? Reality check please.

August 31, 2017 3:03 PM

Is it common (or better yet, reasonable) practice to expect an employee to figure out a way to procure more training that is necessary to perform one's job in an competent manner?

I have been working at my employer for 4 years. I am in a very niche field. I also work for a non-profit that has been experiencing some pretty big money problems over the past year or so. I work with a database that is very specific to the field that I work in. I have never to this day received much training in operation of said database and have had to teach myself a lot of what I know about how to use it. When I was first hired, another employee showed me some things but not a whole lot. That employee has since retired. There is no one else here that knows how to use it, and since the field is so small, only a handful of folks in the country are familiar with it.
The only way to get any additional knowledge is to be trained by someone who knows how to use the database or by the company who created it, which costs about $1000 per person for training.

Anyway, I have expressed to my boss that I need additional training in this program to be able to do my job to the best of my ability. He told me that I need to apply for a grant to get the money because our organization can't afford the training. Really? The organization seems to be able to buy other things.

Today, I also mentioned that needed some specific computer help and another co-worker said to me, "Well, you can go to XYZ Community College and take a night class and you should be able to get discounted tuition!" I was infuriated. So, I'm supposed to seek job-related training on my time off and pay for it too? Fuck off.

So my question is.....

is this typical professional protocol nowadays? Why would a boss or employer have an expectation like this of an employee? I have never encountered such a situation before. Please advise.

Thanks.

posted by anonymous to Work & Money (25 answers total)

This might be more of an opinion question than something that can be answered specifically, so it might be more chat than ask.

That being said, my expectation is that this is pretty normal, especially for the non-profit space, who tend not to have money for anything. It sounds like you're performing an IT function, and it isn't uncommon to find that folks view IT as perfectly fine, needing no attention and no money until everything eventually falls apart.

I have similar stories of being wildly underpaid by an employer in an outrageously expensive part of the country, while they burned tens of thousands of dollars on things that were unnecessary at best. (A non-working, show garden outside an industrial-style building in a parking lot, hundreds of thousands of dollars in unnecessary travel expenses, including international travel for a national company, superfluous brand consulting from complete bullshit artists, etc.) Meanwhile, IT systems in one office eventually melted down in various ways because they wouldn't spend $5,000 or $10,000 to update them, in spite of dire warnings about their demise.

So yeah, not unusual, especially when technology is involved.
posted by cnc at 3:27 PM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]

I've applied for grants to fund my attendance at trainings/classes that would be nice to attend but aren't strictly necessary for me to do my job (though they would help me do it better), and I work at a well-run non-profit that's generous with professional development spending.

So, I think it's reasonable for your office to ask you to raise the funds to cover the cost of the training. It would be nicer if they paid out of general funds, but, if they're struggling to cover payroll and other basic costs, I can see why they would be reluctant if you've been making do with the skills you currently have. That said, your boss should help you find an appropriate grant to apply to, and I'd suggest asking them for that so you can get the training you need.

I'd also ask your boss about how they perceive the importance of the database you work with within the larger context of the organization. It may be that you feel like you really need to develop your skills but your boss thinks your skills are just fine as they are, or even that you've picked it up so well that you don't need training, so that might be part of the issue as well.
posted by snaw at 3:28 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is common but not OK.

One factor to consider - how widely used is this DB? Would the training benefit you outside your current employer?

It sounds like this is self initiated - I have a hard time letting work be done badly, let alone doing work badly, but if the organization doesn't see your lack of training as a problem they're not going to thank you for solving it.
posted by PMdixon at 3:29 PM on August 31, 2017 [13 favorites]

Is there an online user group for this software that might be beneficial (and cheap?).
posted by Calzephyr at 3:31 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

To answer the other part of your question, I had training and conferences paid for in my past job. It was sweet.

At my current job, the training budget is non-existent and I have to use vacation days for courses or make up the time and pay out of pocket. YMMV!
posted by Calzephyr at 3:33 PM on August 31, 2017

This is not at all unusual for non-profits, in my experience.

(For example: On Saturday I'm meeting with a friend who works at a museum I temped at to teach her some Excel skills she needs. We're both giving up our free time, but I'm getting lunch out of it!)
posted by kalimac at 4:08 PM on August 31, 2017

This is normal; it is not reasonable. You were hired for the skills you have, with the expectation that you'd get some training on the job, not that you'd pay out of pocket for the skills the job needs.

Applying for a grant isn't a bad idea - if you can go through the process while on the clock. Ignore co-worker; assume that falls under "intends to be helpful; doesn't actually understand the situation" advice.

If you have the energy for it, write up how much time you're losing and what kinds of other costs (errors, etc.) are caused by you not having the training, and bring that report to boss: "by not having $PROGRAM training, I am spending X more hours/week than I otherwise would on this process, and there are three spots where errors could easily slip in, requiring Y additional hours in quality review; added up, this is costing us $Z per month. Training would cost $A, and after B months, it would have paid for itself - and more, I'd be able to write up documentation for the next person to do this job."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:09 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]

It sounds like this is self initiated - I have a hard time letting work be done badly, let alone doing work badly, but if the organization doesn't see your lack of training as a problem they're not going to thank you for solving it.

Pretty much this. Unless your lack of training causes something to break (or unable to fix something that is broken) or a deadline to be missed or something, they will consider whatever rudimentary training you already have to be adequate for their needs.
posted by juv3nal at 4:09 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

The suggestion to look for funding is a good one. Maybe there's a discount on the training, you can ask the vendor. And there may well be some grant for implementing technology. Your local United Way may be helpful. It's useful to know that there's a class at the local community college. No, you shouldn't have to pay for this stuff. However, figuring out how to get funded for training is useful and a good resume item.
posted by theora55 at 4:11 PM on August 31, 2017

I have expressed to my boss that I need additional training in this program to be able to do my job to the best of my ability.

This does not sound very compelling. In your boss's mind, you've already been doing the job just fine for 4 years. You need to explain why this is critical for the organization to deliver on its mission.

And yeah, very standard for a non-profit.
posted by yonglin at 4:19 PM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]

I don't know how common this is, but I do know that it's the sign of a shitty employer. Reasonable requests for training should be accomodated to the extent possible. Perhaps they really don't have the money, but if that's the case, they should still take the request seriously and if you apply for a grant it should be on company time.

I suspect that one reason you're getting the underwhelming reaction you are is because your employer and coworkers are used to the status quo. You've been working there 4 years and from their perspective I guess everything is going fine, so in their minds you must not really need more training all that much. Perhaps if you outlined how much time would be saved in the long run, how your productivity would increase, how things would be more secure, or whatever benefits you expect to receive from training, that would help motivate people to take you seriously.
posted by nirblegee at 4:22 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

Only re: the community college class, you should be able to get "comp time" for the hours you spend in class, i.e., take that number of hours off your office work. This is standard even in the small, underfunded nonprofits I've worked for.
posted by 8603 at 4:47 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]

Is your organization paying money to a company for access to this database? In that case, I would think the company would offer some sort of training over the phone/internet for free. I've used many subscription databases in my career, and the company always offered a screen-share training if I asked. That's part of paying for the access to their product and it's basic customer service. At a minimum, I'd think they have a written tutorial or reference guide you can use. So I think $1,000 just for training on one database you already know how to use sounds a little frivolous, so I can't say I'm surprised your organization doesn't want to pay for it. Also:

I also work for a non-profit that has been experiencing some pretty big money problems over the past year or so.
...
He told me that I need to apply for a grant to get the money because our organization can't afford the training. Really? The organization seems to be able to buy other things.

Seems like you explained why already -- they have money problems. Also, you've already been doing this for 4 years and, unless they've had issues with the job you've been doing, they have no reason to think they need to drop $1,000 to train you to do a job you've already been doing just fine.

Nothing about this sounds irrational or unusual to me from your organization's perspective, to be honest. Whenever I didn't know how to do something at work, I taught myself via Google, message boards, YouTube, etc.
posted by AppleTurnover at 4:48 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

Training budgets for the fiscal year are probably set at this point, and an unexpected $1000 is probably not small potatoes. I would not expect most workplaces to be able to accommodate your request right away if they are already satisfied with the work you're doing and there's no immediate emergency that would justify spending money already allocated elsewhere.

Some workplaces might be able to consider building this into the budget for a future year; you could put together a proposal for why that makes sense from the company's perspective and give it to your boss to start thinking about next year. But at that point you're partway to a grant proposal already so you may as well go ahead and start looking for possible grants to apply to.
posted by Stacey at 5:41 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

I work at a big, very profitable company and make a very decent salary. If I get a training request in by the beginning of the quarter, they can sometimes accommodate it. $1000 would be considered a lot though and they'd ask lots of questions. Recently they said a $300 conference was outside the budget for the quarter. This seems really silly but organizations have a tendency to focus on cutting variable costs to the bone.
posted by miyabo at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2017

Seems like you explained why already -- they have money problems. Also, you've already been doing this for 4 years and, unless they've had issues with the job you've been doing, they have no reason to think they need to drop $1,000 to train you to do a job you've already been doing just fine.

What this boils down to is either (a) they are broke, or (b) they are not broke but do not consider paying for your training to be a priority for them.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:55 PM on August 31, 2017

This reflects my experience in the non profit world, which is one of the many reasons I now work in a corporate environment, which, ironically, I find much more friendly towards and supportive of employees and their professional development. I'm both of the corporations where I've worked, this would be unheard of.
posted by spindrifter at 7:56 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

I have expressed to my boss that I need additional training in this program to be able to do my job to the best of my ability.

This phrasing is key. You've said you need training to be able to do your job to the best of your ability. You may be right! But the problem is, your boss doesn't care if you do your job to the best of your ability, it sounds like he cares if it's "good enough for needs." You already perform well enough for his needs.

He may also suspect that, since you perform well enough for his needs already, you are trying to get trained up on the system so you can then take your skills elsewhere for more money, in which case the resistance makes a lot of sense.
posted by corb at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

This was almost 20 years ago, but IBM's policy was the equivalent to 4% of your salary should be set aside for training.
posted by furtive at 9:09 PM on August 31, 2017

Personally I've done lots of work related classes in my own time or the course of my (science-related) career. Some have been employer-paid, some haven't. I've never been pressured to do a class I had to do on my own time, let alone on my own budget.

Also I've had a lot of job roles that are primarily along the lines of "we have this thing, no one else understands it, figure out how to keep it running with available resources." Some are satisfying bits of puzzle solving and others mean wading into piles of crap over and over. For the latter I remind myself that if I loved everything about my job I'd be working for free.

So basically to me the main question is whether they are giving you a hard time about not being fast enough / good enough / clever enough on the database when you do something. If they are I'd be pissed. If they are basically happy with the results they get from you muddling through, I think their attitude is with the bounds of normal behavior.
posted by mark k at 9:44 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

I have only worked in for-profit organizations and have never received 4% of my salary in training. Your request, while reasonable for the goal of "do the job better," is not obviously reasonable if the company's goal is "maintain or reduce costs." You need to explain how the training will maintain or reduce costs.
posted by samthemander at 10:17 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

Anyway, I have expressed to my boss that I need additional training in this program to be able to do my job to the best of my ability.

Your organization has determined that, from a budget perspective, your current level of ability is what they can afford. They'd like you to be better at it, but that doesn't mean they can afford the cost of this training program to make that happen. Remember: In an emergency, they could pay a consultant to come do something specific if you were unable to do so--not all talent they could ever possibly need has to exist in-house.

If they were mandating that you had to get training that only existed through a $1k program and refused to pay for it, I'd say it was time to run screaming. But if you want this training but they aren't going to fire you for not having this training, then no, it's not per se unreasonable for them not to actually pay for it. Sometimes, having the best possible employees is not actually something an organization can afford, and yes, it might be the best business decision to wait to see if something fails before paying. Remember, they not only have the risk of needing this additional information--they also have the risk of paying to train you and then having you leave. In balance, with modestly-paid employees and expensive training, using outside contractors as your backup plan makes a lot more sense.
posted by Sequence at 10:30 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]

He told me that I need to apply for a grant to get the money because our organization can't afford the training. Really? The organization seems to be able to buy other things.

Many (most?) small non-profits are pretty hamstrung by restricticted grants. Operating funds, which they would probably need to use to pay for this, tend to be very tight. It may be that the other things you see them paying for are funded by specific grants.

Today, I also mentioned that needed some specific computer help and another co-worker said to me, "Well, you can go to XYZ Community College and take a night class and you should be able to get discounted tuition!" I was infuriated. So, I'm supposed to seek job-related training on my time off and pay for it too? Fuck off.

Whoa. OK, first thing, it sounds like this is just some random co-worker, so it doesn't sound like that's an official answer. Second, wow, your coworker is trying to be helpful (making a suggestion) and your response is "fuck off"? That's not cool. I could understand being pissed if that's what HR said, but this response to a coworker seems disproportionate. Third, if it's just generally that you feel like you need more skills in an area of work you're supposed to be skilled in (and not to do with a specific niche software, for instance), that doesn't seem like a crazy idea. If I were your boss, I'd want to pay for it, but that's not universal.

That said, IME whether or not an employer offers pay and time off for training has more to do with the size of the employer and its attitude towards staff than non-profit vs. for-profit. Large employers are more likely to, as are employers that prioritize retention and staff development. I work for a non-profit and every department has a budget for professional development. But we're large and staff retention is a priority.
posted by lunasol at 10:37 PM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]

I worked in nonprofits for a long time, and I'm guessing what database you're referring to. A lot of nonprofit databases do offer training classes, but many are very expensive. I was the database admin at nonprofits for a few years and I never once had a formal class or training - I picked up a lot from message boards and Twitter and just playing around.

So no, this is not uncommon, but as others have said, it doesn't make it okay. But this is how nonprofits often function, particularly in terms of training for tech.
posted by anotheraccount at 7:01 AM on September 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

I also work for a non-profit that has been experiencing some pretty big money problems over the past year or so.

I think your answer lies somewhere in here. If it is a matter of paying salaries vs. trainings, trainings are way down the list. I realize that you said that there seems to be money for other things, but those might have already been budgeted for - or it's possible that training is just not prioritized where you work. You may consider this fall talking to the director about a plan around a training budget for 2018 that you could apply to for the training you need. If there was a financial benefit to the organization, you should highlight that. I realize that it seems ridiculous, but your org may be in a rather perilous financial situation in which trainings are just way down the list. Alternatively you could consider paying for it yourself as a means of professional development in order to get the next, better job.
posted by Toddles at 9:31 PM on September 1, 2017