Trouble letting go of anger at predatory behaviour
July 31, 2017 6:43 AM Subscribe
I was aggressively manipulated by an acquaintance over the course of several months, and only outed him to our shared friend group after he had escalated his behaviour way past the point where I should have put a stop to it. Several months after the fact I’m still feeling guilty, angry, embarrassed, and unable to let go. Is this normal?
[Just FYI, I have tried looking for past threads about anger/manipulation here on the Green, but most seem to deal with parents or other family members, which is not quite the same as the situation I am describing.]
Hello again. So, this was me a few months back. Tl;dr: I was being aggressively (and secretly) hit on by someone in a meetup group I belong to, and after months of increasingly weird, pushy interactions I finally told other members what was happening. The person in question subsequently received a sternly-worded email from our organiser, instructing him to straighten up and fly right or piss off. He appears to have chosen to piss off, though he continues to hover around the edges of the group, most notably by sending messages to said organiser asking to ‘discuss these accusations’ (and also via a woman who still sees him on a one-on-one basis and then comes to gossip to us about him, to everyone else’s amusement and my profound dismay).
First I’d like to reiterate that I am so (so!) grateful for all the excellent advice and encouragement I received here back when I posted my initial question; it appalls me to think where that all might have ended up had I not posted that Ask.
However, six months later I now find myself struggling with intrusive feelings of shame and anger at having allowed myself to be manipulated by this man for so long, and I don’t know what to do with them, largely because I can’t tell if they’re normal or just the result of my overly-analytical personality. I feel that simply pushing the incident out of my mind, while the most efficient solution, is somehow inadequate; I feel like the level of distress I’m experiencing is an indicator that I need to take a lesson from this, but I’m not sure what that lesson is. Relax? Be meaner? Stop trying to be friends with heterosexual men? (For the record, I never directly told him off myself, which seemed like the best course of action at the time but which I’m now regretting.)
The entire incident, including the fact that some people in the group still appear to like and want him around, has made me question my judgment to the point where I’ve started to doubt my understanding of my existing, 'normal' relationships. I cannot get over my anger and regret at the fact that, despite not liking him at all at first, this guy managed to work me to the point where for a time I came to genuinely like him, and to think he liked me as a human being and not just a piece of ass. I can't decide whether I hate him or myself more.
To have been almost completely taken in by someone whom I now recognise as an obvious womanising jackass is mortifying, and throws into doubt my entire self-concept as a grounded, self-respecting person; the pain of this embarrassment is making it very hard to put this behind me. I realize now that this person carefully leveraged what he presented as our shared interests to completely f*ck with my head in a way I thought it couldn’t be; I think he identified me (incorrectly) as easy prey--not hot, nerdy, too polite--and figured I’d be grateful for the attention. In short, it feels like while he didn’t manage to browbeat me into sleeping with him, he still won, by identifying and exploiting everything that is wrong with me as a person. I gave him the benefit of the doubt until the last possible f*cking second, like a moron. I want to vomit whenever I think of it, and I think of it a lot (as you can see).
How does one move on from this sort of thing? Is this a normal reaction to being conned, or is my persistent anger just another personality defect? I hate, hate, hate giving him free rent in my head and yet at the same time feel like forgetting this whole thing would be to somehow let him off the hook. If any other overly sensitive, ruminative Mefites would care to offer insight it would be most appreciated. Thank you in advance!
[Just FYI, I have tried looking for past threads about anger/manipulation here on the Green, but most seem to deal with parents or other family members, which is not quite the same as the situation I am describing.]
Hello again. So, this was me a few months back. Tl;dr: I was being aggressively (and secretly) hit on by someone in a meetup group I belong to, and after months of increasingly weird, pushy interactions I finally told other members what was happening. The person in question subsequently received a sternly-worded email from our organiser, instructing him to straighten up and fly right or piss off. He appears to have chosen to piss off, though he continues to hover around the edges of the group, most notably by sending messages to said organiser asking to ‘discuss these accusations’ (and also via a woman who still sees him on a one-on-one basis and then comes to gossip to us about him, to everyone else’s amusement and my profound dismay).
First I’d like to reiterate that I am so (so!) grateful for all the excellent advice and encouragement I received here back when I posted my initial question; it appalls me to think where that all might have ended up had I not posted that Ask.
However, six months later I now find myself struggling with intrusive feelings of shame and anger at having allowed myself to be manipulated by this man for so long, and I don’t know what to do with them, largely because I can’t tell if they’re normal or just the result of my overly-analytical personality. I feel that simply pushing the incident out of my mind, while the most efficient solution, is somehow inadequate; I feel like the level of distress I’m experiencing is an indicator that I need to take a lesson from this, but I’m not sure what that lesson is. Relax? Be meaner? Stop trying to be friends with heterosexual men? (For the record, I never directly told him off myself, which seemed like the best course of action at the time but which I’m now regretting.)
The entire incident, including the fact that some people in the group still appear to like and want him around, has made me question my judgment to the point where I’ve started to doubt my understanding of my existing, 'normal' relationships. I cannot get over my anger and regret at the fact that, despite not liking him at all at first, this guy managed to work me to the point where for a time I came to genuinely like him, and to think he liked me as a human being and not just a piece of ass. I can't decide whether I hate him or myself more.
To have been almost completely taken in by someone whom I now recognise as an obvious womanising jackass is mortifying, and throws into doubt my entire self-concept as a grounded, self-respecting person; the pain of this embarrassment is making it very hard to put this behind me. I realize now that this person carefully leveraged what he presented as our shared interests to completely f*ck with my head in a way I thought it couldn’t be; I think he identified me (incorrectly) as easy prey--not hot, nerdy, too polite--and figured I’d be grateful for the attention. In short, it feels like while he didn’t manage to browbeat me into sleeping with him, he still won, by identifying and exploiting everything that is wrong with me as a person. I gave him the benefit of the doubt until the last possible f*cking second, like a moron. I want to vomit whenever I think of it, and I think of it a lot (as you can see).
How does one move on from this sort of thing? Is this a normal reaction to being conned, or is my persistent anger just another personality defect? I hate, hate, hate giving him free rent in my head and yet at the same time feel like forgetting this whole thing would be to somehow let him off the hook. If any other overly sensitive, ruminative Mefites would care to offer insight it would be most appreciated. Thank you in advance!
Almost a decade out of it, I still from time to time get hit with a wave of anger at myself for putting up with my shitty college boyfriend for so long. It's pretty infrequent, but once in a while something will remind me of a thing he'd do or say and I remember and get mad at myself all over again, but only fleetingly.
Because what came from it was the knowledge of what shitty behavior looked like, and a promise to myself that I'd watch for it and never let it into my life again. Idle thoughts of shitty college boyfriend will probably never not leave a bad taste in my mouth, but the experience helped me cement exactly what I would not put up with in the future.
A decade of healthy dating and relationships since has borne that out.
I think what you're feeling right now is totally normal, and that with time you'll be able to put this behind you and use your knowledge and experience for good. Let yourself have your angry thoughts, let yourself feel embarrassed when you need to, but then let those go. Know now that you're better armed to navigate in a world of staggeringly mediocre men, and trust yourself that you'll be able to spot shitty behavior if you're ever in a similar situation in the future. Because you will be.
posted by phunniemee at 7:13 AM on July 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
Because what came from it was the knowledge of what shitty behavior looked like, and a promise to myself that I'd watch for it and never let it into my life again. Idle thoughts of shitty college boyfriend will probably never not leave a bad taste in my mouth, but the experience helped me cement exactly what I would not put up with in the future.
A decade of healthy dating and relationships since has borne that out.
I think what you're feeling right now is totally normal, and that with time you'll be able to put this behind you and use your knowledge and experience for good. Let yourself have your angry thoughts, let yourself feel embarrassed when you need to, but then let those go. Know now that you're better armed to navigate in a world of staggeringly mediocre men, and trust yourself that you'll be able to spot shitty behavior if you're ever in a similar situation in the future. Because you will be.
posted by phunniemee at 7:13 AM on July 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
I think it's normal to process something like this for a while, but it's now causing you undue distress and you're bearing guilt when you have done nothing wrong. This, too, is "normal" in that a lot of victims feel guilt and shame, but it's not something you deserve and it's something you should try to interrupt and re-frame when you start to feel these things.
In fact, you have won-- despite being a friendly and non-confrontational person, you saw through this boundary-breaching creep's facade and got him off your back and out of the group! That's huge. He didn't work you because you are a mark or a sucker, but because you are a nice woman who functions within normal social boundaries. That's what creeps depend on-- so many women don't like harshly rejecting men, so many women will keep quiet and not make a huge fuss, nice people in general don't quite know how to act when someone is pushing and breaking boundaries and behaving abnormally.
I think in the future, without even trying, you will act fast if you're treated anything like this. So I don't think you need to be mean, stop talking to men, etc. I think you should feel safer knowing that your instincts turned into action, and it worked.
posted by kapers at 7:13 AM on July 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
In fact, you have won-- despite being a friendly and non-confrontational person, you saw through this boundary-breaching creep's facade and got him off your back and out of the group! That's huge. He didn't work you because you are a mark or a sucker, but because you are a nice woman who functions within normal social boundaries. That's what creeps depend on-- so many women don't like harshly rejecting men, so many women will keep quiet and not make a huge fuss, nice people in general don't quite know how to act when someone is pushing and breaking boundaries and behaving abnormally.
I think in the future, without even trying, you will act fast if you're treated anything like this. So I don't think you need to be mean, stop talking to men, etc. I think you should feel safer knowing that your instincts turned into action, and it worked.
posted by kapers at 7:13 AM on July 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is why victim support groups exist for victims of crime. I was offered it after being burgled, and various incidences of harrassment. Both times things were stolen from me - in the first instance, it was physical objects and my sense of safety and privacy; in the second, it was my pride/dignity, and feeling safe on my own street.
You've had time and energy and dignity stolen from you by this guy, and just like you'd been attacked or burgled, it will have left you feeling violated and unsafe. There's absolutely nothing surprising about that, and you shouldn't feel bad about it. Treat yourself to as much self-care as possible, and some therapy if you can, especially if it is really lingering well after the incident. You deserve to be able to go forward with your life without feeling the shadow of this man and his gross and repeated boundary infringements.
posted by greenish at 7:30 AM on July 31, 2017
You've had time and energy and dignity stolen from you by this guy, and just like you'd been attacked or burgled, it will have left you feeling violated and unsafe. There's absolutely nothing surprising about that, and you shouldn't feel bad about it. Treat yourself to as much self-care as possible, and some therapy if you can, especially if it is really lingering well after the incident. You deserve to be able to go forward with your life without feeling the shadow of this man and his gross and repeated boundary infringements.
posted by greenish at 7:30 AM on July 31, 2017
I will say this in hopes that it's helpful.
You may feel manipulated, but, it sounds like you set your boundaries and stood firm on them in the face of unrelenting pressure.
I think you showed yourself remarkably resistant to manipulation and that you can feel really good about yourself despite this asshole.
posted by entropone at 7:33 AM on July 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
You may feel manipulated, but, it sounds like you set your boundaries and stood firm on them in the face of unrelenting pressure.
I think you showed yourself remarkably resistant to manipulation and that you can feel really good about yourself despite this asshole.
posted by entropone at 7:33 AM on July 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
The worst trick these assholes play is that they break your own trust in YOURSELF. You are floundering and lost because this experience made you think, "Wow- I thought I was better able to protect myself. But gee, I fell for THAT GUY and now I don't know what's what anymore. My internal compass steered me very wrong." That broken self-trust, and fear you'll fall for it again, causes an internal schism that manifests its ugliness when you aren't looking. These moments of doubt are the artifacts of the con, and are popping up to sabotage you when you least expect it.
Nthing the therapy idea. I personally believe it's very, very hard to self-heal in the aftermath of this sort of event. The insight and perspective are very hard to attain. I think it takes someone else to help lead you out of it.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 7:56 AM on July 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nthing the therapy idea. I personally believe it's very, very hard to self-heal in the aftermath of this sort of event. The insight and perspective are very hard to attain. I think it takes someone else to help lead you out of it.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 7:56 AM on July 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Best answer: This is a normal post-traumatic response. I think your lesson here for you to learn is what techniques work best for you in general after a stressful/traumatic experience and not necessarily specific to this frustrating situation.
You may not necessarily need trauma-focused resources, but you can use CBT workbooks to help you do some processing and narrative adjustments.
You did experience a form of violence, it may have been (theoretically) low-stakes but you still had a drawn-out heightened-awareness response to it, and that stuff reverberates. And for most women, there's usually not just the one time, so it's not an overreaction to do some work around this and improve your self-defence reflexes for the future.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:04 AM on July 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
You may not necessarily need trauma-focused resources, but you can use CBT workbooks to help you do some processing and narrative adjustments.
You did experience a form of violence, it may have been (theoretically) low-stakes but you still had a drawn-out heightened-awareness response to it, and that stuff reverberates. And for most women, there's usually not just the one time, so it's not an overreaction to do some work around this and improve your self-defence reflexes for the future.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:04 AM on July 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
Best answer: This strikes me as very similar, certainly in kind, if not necessarily in intensity, to what many people experience after sexual assault or sustained sexual harassment--losing trust in people, seeing ulterior motives everywhere, doubting all of your relationships and prior behavior, feeling a certain confidence that there is something very deep inside your personality and patterns of relating to people that caused you to be treated this way and becoming more withdrawn and less socially open in an attempt to correct this. You experienced a boundary violation. A man took advantage of you and tried to get you to do things you didn't want to do. It may not be sexual assault but the same basic power dynamic is there. Your feelings are not a personality defect.
posted by armadillo1224 at 9:28 AM on July 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by armadillo1224 at 9:28 AM on July 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd lay money on
six months later I now find myself struggling with intrusive feelings of shame and anger at having allowed myself to be manipulated by this man for so long
having a great deal to do with
some people in the group still appear to like and want him around
and you having been socialized into treating the resulting completely reasonable resentment of both him and them as unacceptable.
It's always hard to deal with watching other people take up positions on Team Dickhead. What are these fools thinking?
posted by flabdablet at 9:32 AM on July 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
six months later I now find myself struggling with intrusive feelings of shame and anger at having allowed myself to be manipulated by this man for so long
having a great deal to do with
some people in the group still appear to like and want him around
and you having been socialized into treating the resulting completely reasonable resentment of both him and them as unacceptable.
It's always hard to deal with watching other people take up positions on Team Dickhead. What are these fools thinking?
posted by flabdablet at 9:32 AM on July 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
I would tell the gossip that I don't want to hear about him when she brings him up.
posted by brujita at 10:38 AM on July 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by brujita at 10:38 AM on July 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
Once, in the middle of a work-week day, I was standing in the post office, being next in line to approach the counter. Behind me was standing a tall, old dude. He was standing close behind me, and he said to me: “Why don’t get a real job, instead of standing on the corner?” Mind you, I run my own business thus flexibility to mail stuff whenever I like, and I was dressed in regular old jean capri pants and a slightly oversized regular unisex white t-shirt. So there was nothing in my attire or behavior to entice this kind of comment from him, except that I was “not at work.”
Now, get this, he said it with a smile, and in thick southern accent, and at this moment my turn was called, and all I did was just turn back, look at him and smile. And then go on to the counter. That’s right, just a shy, confused smile was all he got from me instead of many, many f*** you-s that I later replayed over and over in my head. Why? Because as women, we are conditioned all our lives to be NICE. Because I couldn’t believe my ears, got flustered, distracted, and so my brain did the conditioned thing for me – be nice and smile in response to whatever male attention. I have to tell you, I’m fuming and furious right now typing this, and it’s been just a 1-second incident, and it happened about 8 years ago.
For months after this happened I was incredibly angry with myself because, oh, I wasn’t smart enough, witty enough to give him a deservingly mean response. I smiled, and made myself look like a fool I probably am. I’m socially inadequate, and cannot stand up for myself. But it was all wrong. Now, I’m angry at everything that made, and still tries to make and condition me to be a sweet, polite, nice woman. NO. I take this (and some other similar incidents that happened throughout my life) as a lesson, a wake up call, a call to say – WTH? I don’t want this, you suck, you are not welcome to my number, you can’t cat-call me, f*** off, - whenever I feel like it if that’s what I feel like at that moment. I’m nearly 40 now, and it will probably take me the rest of my life to erase all that BS society puts on us as women (if it’s even possible to do so completely), but at least I am now aware and working on it.
So it’s completely understandable that you should be angry with this situation. You are young. You are conditioned. You couldn’t have done it differently. It is not in any way your fault! But now you know to maybe be a little bit tougher next time, to stand up for yourself a little earlier. It is absolutely not your fault! Try taking it as a lesson that not all humans are decent, and in time you'll learn to speak up sooner. It will happen at it's own time, and you cannot rush it. Nothing more to it. Hugs.
posted by LakeDream at 6:49 PM on July 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Now, get this, he said it with a smile, and in thick southern accent, and at this moment my turn was called, and all I did was just turn back, look at him and smile. And then go on to the counter. That’s right, just a shy, confused smile was all he got from me instead of many, many f*** you-s that I later replayed over and over in my head. Why? Because as women, we are conditioned all our lives to be NICE. Because I couldn’t believe my ears, got flustered, distracted, and so my brain did the conditioned thing for me – be nice and smile in response to whatever male attention. I have to tell you, I’m fuming and furious right now typing this, and it’s been just a 1-second incident, and it happened about 8 years ago.
For months after this happened I was incredibly angry with myself because, oh, I wasn’t smart enough, witty enough to give him a deservingly mean response. I smiled, and made myself look like a fool I probably am. I’m socially inadequate, and cannot stand up for myself. But it was all wrong. Now, I’m angry at everything that made, and still tries to make and condition me to be a sweet, polite, nice woman. NO. I take this (and some other similar incidents that happened throughout my life) as a lesson, a wake up call, a call to say – WTH? I don’t want this, you suck, you are not welcome to my number, you can’t cat-call me, f*** off, - whenever I feel like it if that’s what I feel like at that moment. I’m nearly 40 now, and it will probably take me the rest of my life to erase all that BS society puts on us as women (if it’s even possible to do so completely), but at least I am now aware and working on it.
So it’s completely understandable that you should be angry with this situation. You are young. You are conditioned. You couldn’t have done it differently. It is not in any way your fault! But now you know to maybe be a little bit tougher next time, to stand up for yourself a little earlier. It is absolutely not your fault! Try taking it as a lesson that not all humans are decent, and in time you'll learn to speak up sooner. It will happen at it's own time, and you cannot rush it. Nothing more to it. Hugs.
posted by LakeDream at 6:49 PM on July 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Again, and as always, thank you so very much for all of your compassionate and super-smart answers. It's incredibly helpful and I'm very grateful to each of you.
posted by TinyChicken at 3:31 PM on August 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by TinyChicken at 3:31 PM on August 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I think this is a normal reaction to being conned--we're far harder on ourselves than we are on other people in the same situation. Aren't we smart enough to have seen the warning signs? This sense of shame is one of the reasons that people are so reluctant to admit that they've been conned in the first place.
You should be gentle with yourself about this, though. Cons work because they prey on social instincts that are common to our species--instincts to trust, to form relationships, and so on. Humans can't function as a social species if we always interpret behavior through a distrustful lens. It's not your fault if in hindsight you know his behavior had a more sinister interpretation than you gave it at the time.
I am really sorry this happened to you. The fault is entirely his, and he's the one that needs to learn a lesson from it. He might not, but that's not your problem.
Also, letting go of the anger and rumination isn't "letting him off the hook." You've already stood up to him--by contacting the organizer--and forcing him to stop. He will either learn or he won't; you can't force him. Letting the organizer do this isn't weak either; he literally was not worth the effort you doing it yourself.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:05 AM on July 31, 2017 [13 favorites]