Wardrobe basics: conservative office edition

July 31, 2017 7:01 AM

New to the world of formal/conservative work attire (senior government finance/policy): Help me understand the style, and possibly find good quality clothes and shoes. I am a woman, not quite plus size, but borderline (14/16). I have spent most of my working life in loungewear tenuously disguised as "kinda office" wear.

Let me say first that I own two types of stuff: thrift store stuff, or really good quality stuff I buy after months of research and saving up. Pricier suggestions are welcome, but quality must back the price up.

So, thanks to MeFi, I aced my job interview, and I got my first policy job! I suspect my usual dressing style of "whatever I found at Goodwill" won't cut it anymore, since I will be meeting with legislators and executive staff. This is my first time in a more formal work environment, and when I try to draw inspiration, all I can think of is my catholic school days and republican ladies I've seen on TV. I'm thinking no no-sleeves, no open-toe shoes, no low-cleavage tops, and no short skirts. I am also guessing block heel pumps, and pant- or skirt suits would be pretty safe? Anyway, I would really appreciate any of the following:

- Usual dress style rules and pointers for a senior government work environment

- Good quality clothes brand suggestions (so far internet recommends Talbots and Ann Taylor. Brooks Brothers does not seem to carry my size)

- Good quality shoe brand suggestions. This is proving particularly hard, since I usually wear men's oxfords (I have two pairs that I rotate and they were PRICEY but worth it), but pumps seem to be overall of lower quality, which is a little infuriating.

- Ideas on actual clothes pieces I should get (a white shirt, a black blazer?)

Thank you!

posted by Tarumba to Work & Money (23 answers total)

Boden for dresses (may need to get longs depending on your height) and blazers.

Boden runs large. I would start with a 14 there and see what you think. I also never buy full price- wait for a sale 15-20% off with free shipping/returns to order.

Clarks for shoes. Dansko has a pair of oxfords that have been great for me.

I'd plan on having a couple of blazers, a few pairs of black/navy/other neutral pants, a couple of dresses. Two-three pairs of shoes. Some shirts (Boden Ravello is a good one). You can certainly weave in thrift finds, I definitely do.

Finding a good suit in cusp sizes is tricky, but Ann Taylor and Talbots are good choices. Banana Republic is worth checking out too.
posted by sulaine at 7:24 AM on July 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

It is old, but for the kind of work you are doing, New Women's Dress for Success still has good advice. The author based his recommendations on decades of research. Some of the writing and attitudes haven't aged well, but the clothes advice is spot on.
posted by seasparrow at 7:26 AM on July 31, 2017

hello! welcome to the world of policy wonking!

i'm similar to you, though i've been in the field now for about 7 years. my approach was to buy one nice black dress for every day of the week, and cool black heels. my govt office is ok with the right to bare arms, so i have a few sleeveless dresses as well. i also have facial piercing and vibrant dyed hair, which i was unsure of at first, but everyone seems fine with it!

mostly i'd advocate for not spending too much, finding a fashion formula that works for you, and just waiting to see what the office is like. lots of them are really chill / relaxed! i bet you'll be pleasantly surprised & able to integrate some of your own already-existing pieces.

good luck! i'm excited for you!
posted by crawfo at 7:28 AM on July 31, 2017

When I think of pricey but worth it for a conservative work environment where you'll be meeting with legislators and executive staff, I think of MM.LaFleur. They've mastered the art of the non-boring but still conservative work outfit - everything looks a bit staid at first glance but there are added details that make them a bit better than run of the mill. Available in plus sizes and lots of their clothing is machine washable as a bonus. I have a pair of pants and a couple of dresses from them and they are some of my favorite wardrobe workhorses.
posted by peacheater at 7:29 AM on July 31, 2017 [7 favorites]

Please do not break my heart by wearing crappy flimsy "women's office shoes" where you could be wearing super snappy and comfortable oxfords.

It sounds like you're sort of thinking about totally changing your style, which might make you feel Super Profesh, but also carries a risk that you might wake up in a month and not feel like you anymore.

If you don't want to go Full Daytime TV Presenter, might I suggest a compromise?

Buy a white shirt, a black blazer, and some smart, dark coloured pants in a nice fabric. Wear ONE of these pieces, with other clothes that feel more you. OWN your style, rock it.

Citation: I used this approach when I started to work face-to-face with clients. My smart shirt says "I am professional and competent". My thrift-shop skirt in an unusual cut says "but I am also myself" and my smart but bright red (no heel) shoes say "and also I like bright colours, deal with it".
posted by greenish at 7:39 AM on July 31, 2017 [3 favorites]

It kind of depends on what sort of size 14/16 you are, but if you are busty, then men's style shirts are bullshit. If you have a smaller bust, then they work and look good. Otherwise go with a draped blouse.
posted by TORunner at 7:39 AM on July 31, 2017 [3 favorites]

Best answer: For shoes, since you seem to have big enough feet to wear men's shoes: switch over to Italian men's shoes and/or men's loafers that are cut close to the foot without a chunky sole. Look for loafers (or oxfords if you can find them) with a lot of froofy detail - broguing, tassels, weaving, horse bits, whatever. And look for them in colors and textured leather. A blue suede horsebit loafer is going to read as gender-neutral (especially in our age of macho stompy men's shoes being the norm) and will be much higher quality and more comfortable than women's shoes.

I know that I wear a true European 41, so I buy my shoes online, often used on eBay. This has the advantage of providing me with a range of older styles. (Although I have a masculine gender presentation, I still enjoy a retro shoe.)

Yoox is a good place to find a broad selection of Italian men's loafers, and their sales are good. Brands I like that they usually have are Doucal's, Moma and Mr. Hare, but honestly I buy more based on "not literally the cheapest one" and appearance. Their return process is good.

If you want to spend a lot of money on women's shoes, Ped Shoes stocks some good Italian and Portuguese brands, although almost everything they have is summery right now and so too casual. They tend toward high-quality women's oxfords - if you have a chance to get a pair of Fiorentini Bakers, they last very well and are comfortable. (I've bought a couple of pairs from them over the years on sale, and I have also made a return to them.)

You might want to check out Everlane for shoes - as a brand they are for fancy tech elites who want fair trade goods, so they don't stock women's 16 (because only immoral poors who are too dumb to code fail to soylent themselves to thinness, etc) but their shoes actually look like very good quality to me, and I've bought a few things in men's XL (men are allowed to be somewhat larger, proportionally, than women, because it is less immoral for men to be heavier) and both quality and price are good.

If you want less structured clothing, Eileen Fisher and Cos both do office attire that's good quality and pricey. Back when I wore women's clothes, I had several unstructured Eileen Fisher jackets from eBay that were wonderfully nice.

If I had to do this and were going to spend money, I would buy a couple of pairs of dressy Italian men's loafers, a couple of Eileen Fisher jackets, some dressy tees in a high twist yarn and a couple of pairs of pants from Cos.
posted by Frowner at 7:41 AM on July 31, 2017 [6 favorites]

This would be a great time to book a Nordstrom personal shopper (a free service). Even if you don't buy everything there, they'll help you figure out a style.
posted by veery at 7:54 AM on July 31, 2017 [8 favorites]

You know, before you spend a cent on clothes, I would urge you to get a color analysis. It really makes a huge difference, and, as Carole Jackson wrote in Color Me Beautiful, the financial benefits from shopping your palette and only your palette "are dramatic."

People notice color fit, even if they are not conscious of it. Also, you are likely to discover combinations you had not considered before.

That book also has a "survival wardrobe" list that I think would serve you well. Yes, the photos and styles in the book are dated, but her advice is timeless.

Then go to the Nordstrom stylist.

Talbots is a great place for suits if you are between sizes. I often combine one straight-size piece with one plus-size piece in a suit. Talbots is a government staple (it is not necessarily recognizable, don't worry), and it need not look frumpy or "old." It's how you accessorize it that really makes the difference.

Also before considering clothes, buy the absolute most comfortable shoes you can possibly afford! Government floors are hard and slippery, and people fall on them. Ask me how I know. Nordstrom shoe-department staff are wonderful. Go for minimally labeled Ferragamo if you can swing it.

While I support the right of women to wear sleeveless dresses, I personally would freeze in the air conditioning. The same applies to open-toed shoes.

While you're at Nordstrom, get a bra fitting!

If you want to wear makeup, foundation is where to spend money. The rest can be Wet 'n' Wild from the CVS.

You don't have to not be you, just a more fluffed and buffed version.

Good luck! I am envious and remember those days!
posted by jgirl at 8:18 AM on July 31, 2017 [4 favorites]

Congratulations on getting a new job! When I'm not sure about whether a particular item of clothing is dressy enough, I think, how would I feel if I ran into one of the higher-ups while wearing this? That might be a good rule of thumb regarding low-cut tops and short skirts. I also simply think, if I bend over or move around in this item, am I at risk for showing my colleagues more than they'd like to see? I'd say, maybe no no-sleeves but if you can wear a cardigan or a jacket over something sleeveless, that's fine, and eventually you can gauge whether it would be appropriate to lose the cardigan/jacket. When I worked at a conservative nonprofit, the rule with shoes was that they could be front-less (open toe) or backless but not both. I also feel like, if you're unsure, you can't go wrong with a skirt suit or pantsuit but if neither of those are handy, a cardigan can substitute as a jacket.

As for brands, I get a lot of clothes from Loft. I especially like their 100% cotton cardigans, and they have good sales. The Limited is no more but if you can find at a thrift store or ThredUp some of their pencil skirts, in my experience, they have been really hearty. I wear my black pencil skirt from The Limited maybe once a week and it still looks good, in my opinion. Gap is hit or miss but I've been pleased with their ponte knit items lately - I have these skirts and tops and god help me I might buy more of them. Good luck!
posted by kat518 at 8:44 AM on July 31, 2017

Seconding MM LaFleur, if you have a couple hundred bucks to a couple grand to spend and want to be business formal, without being dowdy.

In particular, if you aren't calibrated to the business formal/policy shop look yet, go with their bento box, where you can not only put down your workplace environment, but specifically what field you work in. They send you a box that'll have enough for you to put together a 2-3 outfits, and you keep what you want and send the rest back.

Once you've got a couple basic things from them, and you see what the other women at the place work, I think options like Loft and Talbots and Ann Taylor and Banana Republic open up -- they have some stuff that works, and some stuff that is way-the-fuck out there casual, so if you're unsure of your taste/don't want to put a foot wrong, Treacherous Waters Lie There.

Boden has some great stuff, but my friends who order regularly from them have to do the buy-and-return dance a whole bunch before finding the specific "type" of dresses at Boden that work for them. Like, they'll three different Boden dresses, all in 16, and their look will range all the way from perfect without tailoring to WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:54 AM on July 31, 2017

I would also recommend the blog Corporette, which is geared towards fashion options for women in fairly conservative professional careers, such as law, banking, and government. (I'm in government but I could wear jeans every day and nobody would blink...)
posted by suelac at 9:22 AM on July 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

I came in to recommend reading Corporette as well. They were very helpful to me when I had to step up my wardrobe game this year. They have a Hall of Fame section with work-horse basics and a bunch of "beginner office wardrobe" posts. I don't usually buy the exact stuff that they recommend bc it's out of my budget, but it definitely helped me learn what silhouettes and colors to look for. Happy shopping!
posted by Snarl Furillo at 9:56 AM on July 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

MM Lafleur is gobsmackingly expensive for so much polyester. They have some cute items (and a better expanded-size range than many), but the day I drop $250 for a polyester dress is the day they can put me in a home. And you should carefully review that bento box return policy--I was just looking at it last night and was surprised at how fussy it was.

Sleeveless dresses that are otherwise plain and in a dark color have a lot more traction these days, but you can always wear them with a jacket or cardigan if sleeveless turns out not to fit the office standard.

I wouldn't spend a lot of money right away, actually--get two or three outfits and then observe your co-workers and your bosses. I wouldn't have guessed in advance that sleeveless dresses would've been okay in my office, but both my boss and my deputy boss wear them, so (if I'd wanted to wear sleeveless, which I generally don't) I would've unnecessarily denied myself if I'd bought everything in advance.
posted by praemunire at 10:03 AM on July 31, 2017 [12 favorites]

Agreeing with finding a look and keeping to it. Loose fitting/unstructured can be very professional if done right.

Check out ebay for Eileen Fisher-items can be found at quite reasonable prices. And EF sizing is relatively flexible and forgiving. And since her line is a bit more loungey than structured, it also might be easier for you to transition some of your current pieces with her items.

Also, consider statement accessories and pieces. A few unique (not necessarily expensive) pieces can help give the professional vibe to just about any outfit. I had one pair of great gold earrings I wore every day for years! I have pretty much only one necklace anymore. My sister used a really great scarf for court appearances in her early days and still does that to give color and personality to otherwise basic black outfits.
posted by beaning at 10:12 AM on July 31, 2017

If you really don't have any office-appropriate clothes, I would get a couple of basics, for whatever "basics" means to you. For me, that's a couple of pairs of reasonably good quality black trousers (I like the Banana Republic wool trousers; they're always on sale if you get on the mailing list), some good quality simple tops like solid color silk jersey T-shirts or merino wool sweaters (Uniqlo makes acceptable quality ones; about $20 on sale) and some jackets or cardigans. Although generally I think Lands' End tends toward the frumpy, I make an exception for their ponte knit dresses, which I see all the time on women at work and at conferences because they're attractive, washable, inexpensive, durable, comfortable, and have pockets. I have two. If you get on the email list they have 40% off sales pretty often.

I have always found that thrift shops in higher-income areas and consignment stores are great sources for women's suit jackets and blazers. They just don't get the wear that, say, a pair of trousers does, and often the styles change slowly (and some are basically immutable, like the Chanel-style jacket).

I think sleeveless tops and dresses should be fine if you have a cardigan or jacket available to throw over them, which is always a good idea anyway because the climate control in buildings can be so variable. Low heels (block or not) and wedges should be fine for shoes. (This is where only having one color of trousers works for me because I can get away with only having black or pewter shoes).

Definitely don't revamp your wardrobe entirely until you've got a feel for the office. Once you've figured out what the local fashion environment is, you can mix in a little more of your own style and expand as needed. It's totally fine to re-wear basics a couple of times a week as long as they're clean.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 10:15 AM on July 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

Following up a bit on beaning's scarf advice, a short necklace of good-but-not-flashy pearls is a classic Professionally Dressed signal on women. Fakes are fine. If there's a length that doesn't choke you, doesn't flop, and falls gracefully into necklines you like, it's even comfortable.
posted by clew at 10:54 AM on July 31, 2017

Eloquii could be good for you! They have frequent sales, so you can generally avoid paying full price.
posted by quatsch at 2:20 PM on July 31, 2017

Thrift stores often will have a bin of beautiful silk scarves for a couple bucks each. Get a bunch! A colourful scarf can really bring an outfit to life. And if you have several in different colours, you can repeat your basic outfits with different scarves and ta-da! new outfit! Pair one with a matching bangle or bright shoes, and you've got a great style going.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 7:37 PM on July 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

Surprisingly, Target has some decent work clothes when it comes to blouses, dresses, and short-sleeve cardigans. You might start there for a few cheaper items and then go to Nordstrom for items where quality matters more, like slacks and blazers and shoes.
posted by mai at 7:39 PM on July 31, 2017

I don't think the quality of Boden stuff matches the high price a lot of the time - and I've bought quite a bit from Boden before I decided to go more frugal. And I haven't bought from MM Lafleur but I second that it looks very expensive for what you get. I've found that I don't have to spend a lot to get dresses that look like they're decent quality if I'm willing to wear polyester, choose conservative styles, and accessorize them. For example, go on Amazon and search for Miusol. Some of their dresses are evening wear but others are good for work. I recently wore the blue v-neck bodycon dress to an interview for a government job paying over 100k - and got the job. The dress cost $25 and I wore it with a silver statement necklace, some earrings and a bracelet. And I've washed, ironed and worn it several more times since then and it's holding up well. I think you could buy 3-4 dresses like this in varying styles - some solid colours and some colorblock, etc. And get a decent black blazer to wear with them. Then after you've been working at your new job for a few weeks and seen what everyone else is wearing you can buy fancier stuff if you feel like it.
posted by hazyjane at 10:18 AM on August 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

My work wardrobe consists of a surprisingly large amount of Coldwater Creek. They have very nice quality easy care shirts (with 3/4length sleeves- my favorite!)
posted by vespabelle at 7:39 PM on August 1, 2017

My wife works for MM. LaFleur and asked me to chime in because it sounds a lot like what you're looking for (full disclosure: she has a terrifying and wonderful amount of company pride):

-The clothes are both really expensive and really good quality.
-They have a new plus-size line which has the same offerings as their main line.
-The too much polyester thing was an issue for her too, and apparently they just hired a new fabric sourcing person specifically to focus on using natural fibers in the near future.
-And they're in the process of developing/releasing shoes as well (she just brought home samples to test-wear).
posted by taltalim at 7:12 PM on August 2, 2017 [1 favorite]