It’s His Party (And I’ll Cry if I Want To)
March 23, 2017 10:37 AM Subscribe
One of my oldest friends makes a high-drama (and expensive) command performance out of his birthday dinner every year, and I’m unclear how to handle it going forward. (excruciating detail within)
Nick is someone I’ve been friends with since we were in elementary school, and since we’re firmly middle-aged now, this is substantial relationship. In a way, it’s almost like having a sibling, someone you stick with because of lifelong ties, despite knowing each other’s flaws intimately.
So I love him, but he’s a high-maintenance sort of person, to put it mildly. Nonetheless, he has a tight-knit group of friends with whom he wishes to celebrate his birthday. Each year, he selects a restaurant and then invites this group of 8-10 people, myself included, to “take him out” to dinner. By which he means: pick up the check. His control-freakitude usually results in him ordering a variety of dishes for the table that he prefers, which everyone samples from. I freely admit to having some relatively picky eating preferences, but I’ve noticed I’m not the only one who takes a bit of each and leaves unsatisfied and lighter in the wallet.
Last year, Nick selected a restaurant that was wildly more expensive than even the usual places he chooses. We’re in a large city with extensive restaurant options in virtually every cuisine imaginable, so it is not terribly taxing to find a place that is (a) big enough for a party of 10, (b) offers terrific food, and (c) is reasonably priced.
One of the group, Jacqueline, is on a somewhat more limited budget than others, and when Nick announced this year that he was planning to have us return to the same place, she sent him a private note saying it had been beyond her budget, so she would be happy to meet up with the group later in the evening for dessert. When Nick mentioned this to me recently, I told him I agreed – that the place was really very expensive. This seemed to be news to him, because he sort of shrugged and said “Hm, when I eat lunch there it is a great bargain.” (Apparently he’s oblivious to the fact that lunch and dinner prices can be hugely different.)
He then proceeds to send an email to the entire group saying that the high cost of the restaurant has been brought to his attention, and that it might be that this great lunchtime “bargain” may just be more expensive for dinner or for the private room that seats the larger group. He goes on to suggest that a restaurant specializing in specific Asian cuisines should be chosen, but it needs to meet certain parameters including: not barbecue, a big table, Saturday night, not too noisy. He says he will consider options, but everyone in the group should be working on this too. He suggests that we keep prices down by sharing dishes (see above for my issues with that), which he thinks will keep the cost to $10 per person (in our city that is just a completely off-the-wall notion) and that perhaps we should not make a reservation because if we mention that this is for a group celebration, the restaurant will charge higher prices (um….)
By now, I'm pretty fed up with Nick's manners. To me, if you extend a dinner invitation to people, you don't decline to pay for your own meal, even if it is your birthday; it's the equivalent of inviting people to your apartment for a party and then handing them all a bill at the end of the evening.
I could go on, and on and on and on, but it boils down thusly:
Is it too late for me to say something about how kooky and off-putting this entire enterprise is after sucking it up for years and years?
In practical terms, should I just ask for a separate check for myself and my husband and order what we want? (From my husband’s perspective, he recommended we all just feign 24-hour flus and ditch the whole thing)
And, bottom line – am I overreacting to this entire situation?
Nick is someone I’ve been friends with since we were in elementary school, and since we’re firmly middle-aged now, this is substantial relationship. In a way, it’s almost like having a sibling, someone you stick with because of lifelong ties, despite knowing each other’s flaws intimately.
So I love him, but he’s a high-maintenance sort of person, to put it mildly. Nonetheless, he has a tight-knit group of friends with whom he wishes to celebrate his birthday. Each year, he selects a restaurant and then invites this group of 8-10 people, myself included, to “take him out” to dinner. By which he means: pick up the check. His control-freakitude usually results in him ordering a variety of dishes for the table that he prefers, which everyone samples from. I freely admit to having some relatively picky eating preferences, but I’ve noticed I’m not the only one who takes a bit of each and leaves unsatisfied and lighter in the wallet.
Last year, Nick selected a restaurant that was wildly more expensive than even the usual places he chooses. We’re in a large city with extensive restaurant options in virtually every cuisine imaginable, so it is not terribly taxing to find a place that is (a) big enough for a party of 10, (b) offers terrific food, and (c) is reasonably priced.
One of the group, Jacqueline, is on a somewhat more limited budget than others, and when Nick announced this year that he was planning to have us return to the same place, she sent him a private note saying it had been beyond her budget, so she would be happy to meet up with the group later in the evening for dessert. When Nick mentioned this to me recently, I told him I agreed – that the place was really very expensive. This seemed to be news to him, because he sort of shrugged and said “Hm, when I eat lunch there it is a great bargain.” (Apparently he’s oblivious to the fact that lunch and dinner prices can be hugely different.)
He then proceeds to send an email to the entire group saying that the high cost of the restaurant has been brought to his attention, and that it might be that this great lunchtime “bargain” may just be more expensive for dinner or for the private room that seats the larger group. He goes on to suggest that a restaurant specializing in specific Asian cuisines should be chosen, but it needs to meet certain parameters including: not barbecue, a big table, Saturday night, not too noisy. He says he will consider options, but everyone in the group should be working on this too. He suggests that we keep prices down by sharing dishes (see above for my issues with that), which he thinks will keep the cost to $10 per person (in our city that is just a completely off-the-wall notion) and that perhaps we should not make a reservation because if we mention that this is for a group celebration, the restaurant will charge higher prices (um….)
By now, I'm pretty fed up with Nick's manners. To me, if you extend a dinner invitation to people, you don't decline to pay for your own meal, even if it is your birthday; it's the equivalent of inviting people to your apartment for a party and then handing them all a bill at the end of the evening.
I could go on, and on and on and on, but it boils down thusly:
Is it too late for me to say something about how kooky and off-putting this entire enterprise is after sucking it up for years and years?
In practical terms, should I just ask for a separate check for myself and my husband and order what we want? (From my husband’s perspective, he recommended we all just feign 24-hour flus and ditch the whole thing)
And, bottom line – am I overreacting to this entire situation?
Poor Nick. His birthday is so important to him. If you don't want to go to dinner, take him to lunch at his preferred spot, just the two of you.
posted by charlielxxv at 10:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by charlielxxv at 10:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
I hate big birthday dinner restaurant outings for this very reason. But if it's a good friend who just happens to need to be really fêted on their birthday (and plenty of otherwise great friends are like this), I would put up with spending more than I normally care to on food that I'm not really that crazy about, because that's just the nature of these things.
Not that your friend isn't being a huge weirdo about his birthday! What I find really rude is that he's trying to make it your responsibility to find a place that will suit him. I'd just drop him a note saying "let me know when you find a place you like!", and if he comes back with something that you truly cannot afford, just bow out this time.
posted by cakelite at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not that your friend isn't being a huge weirdo about his birthday! What I find really rude is that he's trying to make it your responsibility to find a place that will suit him. I'd just drop him a note saying "let me know when you find a place you like!", and if he comes back with something that you truly cannot afford, just bow out this time.
posted by cakelite at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Frankly, I don't see the appeal of "Nick" at all.
Outside of knowing him since the dawn of time, what exactly are his redeeming qualities that this group has all stayed friends with him, not to mention the fact that you have all put up with this nonsense year after year?
I'd go with your husband's idea.
posted by Hanuman1960 at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Outside of knowing him since the dawn of time, what exactly are his redeeming qualities that this group has all stayed friends with him, not to mention the fact that you have all put up with this nonsense year after year?
I'd go with your husband's idea.
posted by Hanuman1960 at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
You are not overreacting. Fake a business trip and stay home.
posted by something something at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by something something at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
am I overreacting to this entire situation?
No. This is as completely outrageous as you think it is. I could break it down point-by-point, but the bottom line is you're right on every one.
I think it's time for someone in the group to have a heart-to-heart with Nick about his birthday plans. That probably falls to whoever is closest to him. It sounds like that might be you.
(From my husband’s perspective, he recommended we all just feign 24-hour flus and ditch the whole thing)
If Nick weren't such a very close friend, I'd agree. But given both the length and depth of your friendship, and your desire to preserve that, I think a more honest approach is called for here. It's not too late to bring it up, even though it's been going on for years. If you (or someone) doesn't talk to him about it, Nick will find more and more of his friends coincidentally coming down with 24-hour flus and business trips on his birthday, and despite his behavior, he probably deserves a better birthday than that.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
No. This is as completely outrageous as you think it is. I could break it down point-by-point, but the bottom line is you're right on every one.
I think it's time for someone in the group to have a heart-to-heart with Nick about his birthday plans. That probably falls to whoever is closest to him. It sounds like that might be you.
(From my husband’s perspective, he recommended we all just feign 24-hour flus and ditch the whole thing)
If Nick weren't such a very close friend, I'd agree. But given both the length and depth of your friendship, and your desire to preserve that, I think a more honest approach is called for here. It's not too late to bring it up, even though it's been going on for years. If you (or someone) doesn't talk to him about it, Nick will find more and more of his friends coincidentally coming down with 24-hour flus and business trips on his birthday, and despite his behavior, he probably deserves a better birthday than that.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm dying to know how this tradition even got started. Did he really just call everyone up out of the blue one day and command them to take him to his chosen birthday dinner? Why did everyone go for it?
Absolutely legit to bow out. Considering that you are long-term friends, I would actually not obfuscate the reason. I'd be absolutely mortified to know that I was doing this kind of thing to my friends. I'd want someone to tell me.
posted by praemunire at 11:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Absolutely legit to bow out. Considering that you are long-term friends, I would actually not obfuscate the reason. I'd be absolutely mortified to know that I was doing this kind of thing to my friends. I'd want someone to tell me.
posted by praemunire at 11:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
I would bail, but I wouldn't say why unless pressed.
So:
You: I won't make it to birthday dinner.
Nick: OK
Or:
You: I won't make it to the birthday dinner
Nick: Why?
You: I don't like the setup. Would be happy to do lunch with you another time though.
Nick: The setup?
You: [go into discussion above]
posted by craven_morhead at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017
So:
You: I won't make it to birthday dinner.
Nick: OK
Or:
You: I won't make it to the birthday dinner
Nick: Why?
You: I don't like the setup. Would be happy to do lunch with you another time though.
Nick: The setup?
You: [go into discussion above]
posted by craven_morhead at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017
I want to give you a special shout out for awesome use of the word "kooky" and I really really wish I could work that into an email response for you that wouldn't be offensive from Nick's perspective .
"Nick, We're getting older now and your birthday tradition of inviting folks out to pay for you is becoming kinda kooky and off-putting because it's rude to invite others out to pay for you. I think it's time for a whole new tradition."
See? Totally rude. Yet satisfying!
I hope someone can soften that language up. I think it's OK to be direct.
posted by jbenben at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
"Nick, We're getting older now and your birthday tradition of inviting folks out to pay for you is becoming kinda kooky and off-putting because it's rude to invite others out to pay for you. I think it's time for a whole new tradition."
See? Totally rude. Yet satisfying!
I hope someone can soften that language up. I think it's OK to be direct.
posted by jbenben at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's time for "the talk" with Nick. He's being rude.
posted by Mr.Me at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Mr.Me at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Suggest some alternatives to Nick that don't involve going out to eat. If his goal is to spend time with his friends on his birthday, he needs to be flexible and provide opportunities that don't involve dinner:
- Everyone go out and do something like bowling or karaoke or one of those puzzle room places where people can eat beforehand or afterwards if they like. Everyone pitch in to buy Nick some beers and pay for his shoe rental.
- A potluck dinner at someone's home in honor of Nick.
- Go out drinking instead of dining so that each person can make their own financial choices. You all chip in for a few of Nick's drinks and people pay what they can versus splitting them evenly.
If Nick is having a hard time processing the challenge associated with going out for an expensive meal and working with 8-10 people's budgets and preferences, be a good friend and tell him very very firmly how inconsiderate it is.
posted by k8t at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
- Everyone go out and do something like bowling or karaoke or one of those puzzle room places where people can eat beforehand or afterwards if they like. Everyone pitch in to buy Nick some beers and pay for his shoe rental.
- A potluck dinner at someone's home in honor of Nick.
- Go out drinking instead of dining so that each person can make their own financial choices. You all chip in for a few of Nick's drinks and people pay what they can versus splitting them evenly.
If Nick is having a hard time processing the challenge associated with going out for an expensive meal and working with 8-10 people's budgets and preferences, be a good friend and tell him very very firmly how inconsiderate it is.
posted by k8t at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
What an asshole! As a grown-ass-adult you don't get to make demands that others organize and pay for your birthday dinner. That's just not a thing, except apparently it is with this person.
It is not too late to do something about this: "Sorry, I won't be able to attend." Repeat until you are blue in the face.
posted by so fucking future at 11:06 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
It is not too late to do something about this: "Sorry, I won't be able to attend." Repeat until you are blue in the face.
posted by so fucking future at 11:06 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have zero patience with anyone who's not an actual child making this big a deal out of their birthdays. Mainly because it seems never to have crossed their minds that everyone on the planet, by definition, has a birthday, and if everyone (or even a substantial fraction of everyone) insisted on making the same sort of fuss about it as the Nicks of the world feel entitled to do, then we would all spend the majority of our waking lives taking part in other people's birthday celebrations. I would bow out and explain why -- not in an accusatory tone, but in a factual one: it's financially and logistically unfeasible to meet your conditions for taking you out, so it won't be possible.
Alternatively, if you really feel you (collectively) are bound to celebrate his birthday this year, then those of you who wish to participate can plan a drinks or dinner outing that you all find logistically and financially feasible. Whether Nick shows up and enjoys himself, shows up and is a pill, or refuses to show up at all will tell you something valuable about how good a friend Nick really is.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 11:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Alternatively, if you really feel you (collectively) are bound to celebrate his birthday this year, then those of you who wish to participate can plan a drinks or dinner outing that you all find logistically and financially feasible. Whether Nick shows up and enjoys himself, shows up and is a pill, or refuses to show up at all will tell you something valuable about how good a friend Nick really is.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 11:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
This whole thing is bizarre for multiple reasons. I'm happy to skip out of the ordinary "let's all go to a bar for my birthday" events, nevermind something this involved and ridiculous.
In a case like this, Miss Manners would recommend the phrase "I'm sorry, it won't be possible." If there was ever a situation that called for that phrase, this is it. Say you have another commitment. You can have another commitment next year as well, and for as long as necessary. Offer another option, if you like, or just don't go. Really, it's fine not to.
posted by epanalepsis at 11:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
In a case like this, Miss Manners would recommend the phrase "I'm sorry, it won't be possible." If there was ever a situation that called for that phrase, this is it. Say you have another commitment. You can have another commitment next year as well, and for as long as necessary. Offer another option, if you like, or just don't go. Really, it's fine not to.
posted by epanalepsis at 11:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I know people who like to plan their own birthdays, so that's not so unusual. But these folks consider paying for their own party as part of the cost of celebrating it the way they want to.
posted by megancita at 11:13 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by megancita at 11:13 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
You ask if you are overreacting. You are, if anything, underreacting. There is nothing wrong with setting boundaries -- and years of inappropriate boundary crossing by Nick do not change the fact that there is nothing wrong with setting boundaries.
posted by Mr. Justice at 11:14 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr. Justice at 11:14 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I feel kind of bad for Nick that he feels the need to choreograph an elaborate and expensive birthday dinner for himself every year, and specifically articulate that other people will pay for him. There's gotta be something going on there emotionally that makes him feel like he won't be celebrated adequately if he doesn't spell out the terms.
It would be less off-putting of him to pick a medium-priced place himself, invite people, and then pull out his credit card at the end as if to pay for himself, while the rest of the table says, "No way, Nick, we'll pay for you tonight!" For whatever reason, he is uncomfortable just letting nature take its course in this way (or, worst case scenario, just paying for his own meal).
Armchair psychoanalysis aside, I think it would be a kindness to address the logistical and financial burdens that will only lead to increasing resentment and absenteeism over time.
"Hey Nick, we're really excited about your birthday. Since you seem to have a specific kind of place in mind, how about you look into it and let us know what you pick. Also, if we could keep shared costs lower this year (appetizers, etc.), that would be great. Thanks!"
posted by delight at 11:18 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
It would be less off-putting of him to pick a medium-priced place himself, invite people, and then pull out his credit card at the end as if to pay for himself, while the rest of the table says, "No way, Nick, we'll pay for you tonight!" For whatever reason, he is uncomfortable just letting nature take its course in this way (or, worst case scenario, just paying for his own meal).
Armchair psychoanalysis aside, I think it would be a kindness to address the logistical and financial burdens that will only lead to increasing resentment and absenteeism over time.
"Hey Nick, we're really excited about your birthday. Since you seem to have a specific kind of place in mind, how about you look into it and let us know what you pick. Also, if we could keep shared costs lower this year (appetizers, etc.), that would be great. Thanks!"
posted by delight at 11:18 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Tell him you have a scheduling conflict and decline the invitation this year.
Because the guy's your friend and you presumably do want to celebrate his birthday, send him a gift.
You don't get to correct him, though. He's an adult who should know better. I'm gonna avoid trying to judge his character and assume he's just built up some bad habits and a blind spot around this particular issue.
If he confronts you and asks if there's a problem, then you can explain that you love him and you love celebrating his birthday with him, but the way he's placing demands on everyone and insisting they pay is something you're no longer willing to comply with. But, only explain this if you really think he doesn't understand what he's doing.
posted by tel3path at 11:19 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because the guy's your friend and you presumably do want to celebrate his birthday, send him a gift.
You don't get to correct him, though. He's an adult who should know better. I'm gonna avoid trying to judge his character and assume he's just built up some bad habits and a blind spot around this particular issue.
If he confronts you and asks if there's a problem, then you can explain that you love him and you love celebrating his birthday with him, but the way he's placing demands on everyone and insisting they pay is something you're no longer willing to comply with. But, only explain this if you really think he doesn't understand what he's doing.
posted by tel3path at 11:19 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
The totally understandable thing to do would be to feign the flu.
The much kinder thing to do would be to tell him honestly: Nick, we love you so much that nobody's wanted to hurt your feelings, but the restaurant thing isn't working. It's a money stressor and it isn't fun. How about this year we [go out for individual-tab drinks; or karaoke; or do pot luck at my house; or whatever other thing you can think of that won't have the same money problem.]
I really think that any decent person would be grateful to have a friend offer to help in this way, and if he can't handle that, it's on him.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
The much kinder thing to do would be to tell him honestly: Nick, we love you so much that nobody's wanted to hurt your feelings, but the restaurant thing isn't working. It's a money stressor and it isn't fun. How about this year we [go out for individual-tab drinks; or karaoke; or do pot luck at my house; or whatever other thing you can think of that won't have the same money problem.]
I really think that any decent person would be grateful to have a friend offer to help in this way, and if he can't handle that, it's on him.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
I can imagine how this tradition started. You're all 20-somethings, he invites everyone out to his birthday dinner at a restaurant of his choosing, it's not too expensive for people. People RSVP with enthusiasm. Everyone shows up, he orders the food for everyone (some people think it's weird, but hey, he's the birthday boy, he can do what he wants), eats, has a good time. The bill comes. People reach for their wallets to pay for their share. Nick doesn't. He looks around expectantly. Someone notices and pipes up and says, "Oh, we should get Nick's bill, he's the birthday boy!" No problem, everyone can chip in a few extra dollars. The bill is paid, everyone goes home. Sure, some people may think it was a problem that they were passive-aggressively expected to pay, but how do you bring it up with him? It was his birthday! It's not a big deal. Another year goes by and lo and behold, the same thing happens again... and again... for the next 20 years.
Anyway, you're totally not overreacting, he sounds insufferable. Maybe you lie to get out of it, maybe you put your foot down at dinner and order your own food on a separate bill, maybe others will follow suit and Nick throws a tantrum (it's his party, he can cry if he wants to). Maybe you gather all your friends and have an intervention (and say, "Hey Nick, actually it's kind of rude that you expect everyone to pay for your dinner and that you order food for everyone. We're sorry that we never brought this up earlier and that's on us, but honestly, we just can't do this anymore. We still love you. Let's do [x] instead."] and he cuts all of you out of your lives; that'd be his choice. Everyone is fed up with his antics and it's everyone's individual choice on how they want to deal with it: address it somehow, or just avoid. But then you'll be going through this again next year... and the next... until you're all at his funeral and he's left instructions that all the attendees are paying for it.
posted by foxjacket at 11:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
Anyway, you're totally not overreacting, he sounds insufferable. Maybe you lie to get out of it, maybe you put your foot down at dinner and order your own food on a separate bill, maybe others will follow suit and Nick throws a tantrum (it's his party, he can cry if he wants to). Maybe you gather all your friends and have an intervention (and say, "Hey Nick, actually it's kind of rude that you expect everyone to pay for your dinner and that you order food for everyone. We're sorry that we never brought this up earlier and that's on us, but honestly, we just can't do this anymore. We still love you. Let's do [x] instead."] and he cuts all of you out of your lives; that'd be his choice. Everyone is fed up with his antics and it's everyone's individual choice on how they want to deal with it: address it somehow, or just avoid. But then you'll be going through this again next year... and the next... until you're all at his funeral and he's left instructions that all the attendees are paying for it.
posted by foxjacket at 11:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'll agree that you don't have to go and I agree with tel3path that you don't get to tell him he's doing it wrong. Just decline the invitation, wish him happy birthday and go on with the parts of the relationship that are not maddening.
This has gone on too long for it be an easy and painless "Nick, this is a weird way to handle your birthday dinner" conversation--note what happened when your one friend tried to privately decline for a very good reason and tried to offer an alternate celebration. I would just decline the invitation with a stonewall "It's not possible this year" and if/when it comes up a few months from now, say there have been increasing conflicts with the costs and with his controlling of the food choices for individual guests, that the event is just too stressful for you. You'd prefer not to be part of it anymore.
posted by crush at 11:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
This has gone on too long for it be an easy and painless "Nick, this is a weird way to handle your birthday dinner" conversation--note what happened when your one friend tried to privately decline for a very good reason and tried to offer an alternate celebration. I would just decline the invitation with a stonewall "It's not possible this year" and if/when it comes up a few months from now, say there have been increasing conflicts with the costs and with his controlling of the food choices for individual guests, that the event is just too stressful for you. You'd prefer not to be part of it anymore.
posted by crush at 11:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know. This doesn't seem that weird to me. I used to do something similar, albeit without forcing everyone to pay for me. That's kind of an important detail, I guess, but I don't think it's out of the question to treat someone to dinner on their birthday. Especially if there are 10 people there. Even if he orders $150 worth of food for himself, that still only breaks down to $15 each. Hell, greeting cards are $7 these days. The money aspect is not a big deal at all.
I'm not exactly clear on what's being paid for. Are you ordering meals for yourselves even though he's ordering shareable plates? If so, why? Just eat the shareables and then go through the drive-thru at McDonald's on the way home. If not, and the shareables are the only order, then it really doesn't seem like a big burden.
I've been on a limited budget before. One nice dinner, with plenty of advance notice, should not stress the budget too much. And even if it somehow does, why not just cover her, too? Again, if she just eats the shareables, her share is only going to be a few bucks.
If you don't want to pay, don't pay. But personally, I wouldn't make a big deal out of this. This is obviously something that means a lot to Nick, and it doesn't sound like a very large amount of money. Maybe if you're going to spend $250 on the whole thing, it might be worth saying something, but otherwise, that's the cost of friendship to me. If Nick's friendship isn't worth a few bucks once a year, maybe you should just stop being friends with him instead.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm not exactly clear on what's being paid for. Are you ordering meals for yourselves even though he's ordering shareable plates? If so, why? Just eat the shareables and then go through the drive-thru at McDonald's on the way home. If not, and the shareables are the only order, then it really doesn't seem like a big burden.
I've been on a limited budget before. One nice dinner, with plenty of advance notice, should not stress the budget too much. And even if it somehow does, why not just cover her, too? Again, if she just eats the shareables, her share is only going to be a few bucks.
If you don't want to pay, don't pay. But personally, I wouldn't make a big deal out of this. This is obviously something that means a lot to Nick, and it doesn't sound like a very large amount of money. Maybe if you're going to spend $250 on the whole thing, it might be worth saying something, but otherwise, that's the cost of friendship to me. If Nick's friendship isn't worth a few bucks once a year, maybe you should just stop being friends with him instead.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
So, I belong to a group of friends that, when I lived in NYC, did this. This is not crazy, exactly: at least how it happened for us is that the tradition of the birthday person not paying for their own meal got started in our twenties, when we were all single, fancy-free, still all really liked celebrating birthdays, and the economy was doing a good deal better. This also took the place of gifts in a sense, so that if you wanted to bring a gift it was nice, but if not, the dinner was the gift. This used to happen for most of us, but as time went on, it happened more for the people who happened to remember more than others. Our own "Nick", /always/ remembered, and /always/ enjoyed this, so we /always/ celebrate Nick's birthday like this, while we infrequently celebrate other birthdays. The ordering food for everyone is easy to start as a tradition as well, especially if Nick is the most outgoing one of the group or eats out the most frequently and is familiar with the menu.
Your own Nick sounds like he's trying to be considerate - horrified by the idea that it may be too expensive, he's trying to find a way to lower the cost for everyone. It sounds like he's really trying if he's figuring out ways to get it down to 10$ a person - even if you know that's not possible or people will be hungry if that happens, it doesn't sound like this is out of malice or that Nick is a bad, selfish friend.
Rather, it sounds like Nick is simply not aware of everyone's finances, or how growing older in this economy puts more demand on your purse and how people sometimes can't afford to eat out as frequently as they used to. If he's talking about how he's checked out their lunch prices, it sounds likely that Nick is someone who has room in his budget to eat out frequently. My suspicion is that it's not the cost of paying for Nick's meal that has grown onerous (spread out over 10 people, even at a hideously expensive place that's be like 4$ each, a bargain for a birthday gift) but rather the cost of paying for people's own meals, and the fact that you can't just go and order a water.
I think the easiest thing to do is to point out your own picky eating preferences, and say, "I'd love to come, but you know I can't eat shellfish/peanut/gluten/whatever, so maybe I'll just order something for me separately!" However, I think that may not address what sounds like maybe a little resentment that things have shaken out the way they have. Do you know what the most bothersome aspect of this is for you?
posted by corb at 11:34 AM on March 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
Your own Nick sounds like he's trying to be considerate - horrified by the idea that it may be too expensive, he's trying to find a way to lower the cost for everyone. It sounds like he's really trying if he's figuring out ways to get it down to 10$ a person - even if you know that's not possible or people will be hungry if that happens, it doesn't sound like this is out of malice or that Nick is a bad, selfish friend.
Rather, it sounds like Nick is simply not aware of everyone's finances, or how growing older in this economy puts more demand on your purse and how people sometimes can't afford to eat out as frequently as they used to. If he's talking about how he's checked out their lunch prices, it sounds likely that Nick is someone who has room in his budget to eat out frequently. My suspicion is that it's not the cost of paying for Nick's meal that has grown onerous (spread out over 10 people, even at a hideously expensive place that's be like 4$ each, a bargain for a birthday gift) but rather the cost of paying for people's own meals, and the fact that you can't just go and order a water.
I think the easiest thing to do is to point out your own picky eating preferences, and say, "I'd love to come, but you know I can't eat shellfish/peanut/gluten/whatever, so maybe I'll just order something for me separately!" However, I think that may not address what sounds like maybe a little resentment that things have shaken out the way they have. Do you know what the most bothersome aspect of this is for you?
posted by corb at 11:34 AM on March 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
Wow, Nick is being a jerk about this. I don't think you are overreacting. I'm in the "oops, something came up" camp - unless this is a milestone birthday or this is the only time you get together each year.
posted by SisterHavana at 11:42 AM on March 23, 2017
posted by SisterHavana at 11:42 AM on March 23, 2017
For a deep, close friendship I didn't want to risk, I would handle it thusly: This year, I'd take the reins on the email and suggest a few restaurants that meet the criteria for everyone as best I could: reasonable prices, Asian non-BBQ cuisine, good for a group on Saturday, allows for both shared/individual meals. I'd insist on reservations, even if that meant not telling not telling Nick, because your town sounds like the wrong place to show up for dinner on Saturday with a party of 8-10 and expect seating. I'd do everything I can this year to make sure everyone has a good night, a full belly, and gets their value. I'd probably even reach out to help make sure Jacqueline feels invited even if she still doesn't make it.
A few days afterwards, and definitely long before next year's birthday, that's when I'd talk to Nick. "Friend, your birthday is special and we all want to celebrate, but as you saw this year, it has started to get complicated and people have different social/financial obligations now. If you keep it like this, fewer and fewer people will come. Why don't we talk about a New Plan for next year and see how that goes?" And New Plan means: maybe you go back to the same place every year so people know what to expect and/or maybe you only do drinks and appetizers and desserts and/or maybe Nick agrees to pay his way and requests only the pleasure of everyone's company.
posted by juliplease at 11:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
A few days afterwards, and definitely long before next year's birthday, that's when I'd talk to Nick. "Friend, your birthday is special and we all want to celebrate, but as you saw this year, it has started to get complicated and people have different social/financial obligations now. If you keep it like this, fewer and fewer people will come. Why don't we talk about a New Plan for next year and see how that goes?" And New Plan means: maybe you go back to the same place every year so people know what to expect and/or maybe you only do drinks and appetizers and desserts and/or maybe Nick agrees to pay his way and requests only the pleasure of everyone's company.
posted by juliplease at 11:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
From what you've written, Nick seems more "clueless but trying" rather than just a jerk, since he did try to deal with the restaurant being too expensive (though in a kind of ridiculous way). If Nick is like a sibling to you, with all the complications that entails, then you probably want to maintain the relationship if you can figure out a way to make it less crazy-making. I think juliplease's advice is spot on.
But I'm wondering whether this group celebrates anyone else's birthday and how that is handled. I'm not sure of the context of Nick's actions.
posted by FencingGal at 12:09 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
But I'm wondering whether this group celebrates anyone else's birthday and how that is handled. I'm not sure of the context of Nick's actions.
posted by FencingGal at 12:09 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Other than the parts where he asked you all to find a new restaurant and assumes everyone will just pay his check, I don't think this is that strange. In my group of friends, this is actually how we celebrate most birthdays. The birthday boy/girl picks a place they want to go eat, which is usually pretty fancy, and we all pay for ourselves plus the honoree. There are sometimes people who bow out due to finances, and it's not a big deal. The ordering of food 'family style' is also pretty common for my group - usually if we are in a private room the host will pre-order or select the limited menu before we get there.
In the future, maybe it would be better received if Nick's invite was more "Hey, I picked XYZ fanc-pants place to eat for my birthday and I'd love for everyone to join me. If you can't make it, hopefully we can catch up over drinks soon!" and leave it at that. If the dude wants to do something special for his birthday, that's totally ok. He just can't expect 100% participation every year.
posted by tryniti at 12:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
In the future, maybe it would be better received if Nick's invite was more "Hey, I picked XYZ fanc-pants place to eat for my birthday and I'd love for everyone to join me. If you can't make it, hopefully we can catch up over drinks soon!" and leave it at that. If the dude wants to do something special for his birthday, that's totally ok. He just can't expect 100% participation every year.
posted by tryniti at 12:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Nick's definitely in the wrong on this one. Either he's the host of an event, in which case he gets to choose the venue & pay for the people he invites; or else he's a guest, and whoever is the host gets to choose the venue & pay for their guests. Nick can't have it both ways: he doesn't get to run the party (host) and then make his guests (the people he invites) pay his bills. He also doesn't get to tell other people --- for instance, Jacqueline --- how and when they are 'required' to spend their own money. (Even worse, when they are required to spend their money on him!)
The only third option is, Nick could organize it as a separate-checks-for-everyone deal: he could pick the venue, then invite people with clear notice when they are invited that everyone --- including Nick himself --- pay their own bill.
That's the only options: he's host and he pays for everyone, he's a guest at an event someone else plans and he doesn't pay, or else it's dutch treat and each person pays for themselves.
posted by easily confused at 12:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The only third option is, Nick could organize it as a separate-checks-for-everyone deal: he could pick the venue, then invite people with clear notice when they are invited that everyone --- including Nick himself --- pay their own bill.
That's the only options: he's host and he pays for everyone, he's a guest at an event someone else plans and he doesn't pay, or else it's dutch treat and each person pays for themselves.
posted by easily confused at 12:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
it doesn't sound like a very large amount of money.
The OP mentioned multiple times that Nick is choosing restaurants that multiple friends are finding prohibitively expensive.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
The OP mentioned multiple times that Nick is choosing restaurants that multiple friends are finding prohibitively expensive.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
I think people are being harsh. It's okay to have a difficult friend, and it's okay if that friend needs to sometimes have changing realities explained to him. I would sit down with Nick and explain how old traditions evolve through adulthood and then maybe help him, with gentle guidance, make a plan that is a little better balanced. That may well include pulling the menus from various restaurants on the short list and looking at costs together.
It would be a kindness because otherwise everyone is going to have work trips and 'flu as the years go by and he'll be crushed. So if this is someone you care about, the time investment is probably worth it.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
It would be a kindness because otherwise everyone is going to have work trips and 'flu as the years go by and he'll be crushed. So if this is someone you care about, the time investment is probably worth it.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
You guys are close enough, sounds like, that you should just tell him all this as gently or brusquely as you think is appropriate.
Not everyone has the same interests or needs, so it's not as though you have to have the exact same tradition for everyone in your friend group, but there should be some reciprocity somehow, or at the very least, a solid agreement about expectations. Maybe Nick likes a big wild birthday dinner, but other people have their own personal needs that people accommodate, birthday related or no. Maybe someone is out of town a lot and asks friends to check on their cats, someone else asks for help with their home business sometimes, borrows people's cars, stuff like that. It doesn't have to be perfectly equal, just within reason and with some reciprocity involved. Since it's too expensive for some, just tell him he needs to find an alternative solution, probably either by having a smaller fancy dinner (one on one, even), or keeping it the same size, but at a cheaper restaurant.
As far as how normal it is, that doesn't matter. Everyone thinks they're normal, but nobody is.
True story: My best friend has a HUGE family, and everyone, on their own birthday, has to take the whole gigantic family out for dinner, usually at a fancy place. And the people who can't make it to the dinner put in take out orders! No shit! It's super-expensive, like they have to save up for a while to cover their own birthday dinners! And when it's a kid's birthday, their parents pay. It's a major expense, and other people are usually incredulous and/or outraged when they hear about it, but that's just how they do.
In my family, we only recognize adults' birthdays kind of cursorily, if we happen to be in the vicinity of the birthday person. We don't make a point to call or even remember each others' birthdays. If you want a present, just get one and then you can invoice somebody for it if you want to and they'll pay. That's just how we do.
But my friend and I are just a few days apart in age, so we have always done something together for both of our birthdays. So when my husband moved in, I informed him that he was now in charge of our mutual birthday thing, so now he takes us on our birthday date. But my husband doesn't celebrate his own birthday at all, and strongly discourages anyone else from even acknowledging it. So we both come out ahead of him on that count, but everyone has their own needs met within reason, and we're all close enough that we don't really keep track, but just figure that things come out fairly even in the end.
posted by ernielundquist at 12:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not everyone has the same interests or needs, so it's not as though you have to have the exact same tradition for everyone in your friend group, but there should be some reciprocity somehow, or at the very least, a solid agreement about expectations. Maybe Nick likes a big wild birthday dinner, but other people have their own personal needs that people accommodate, birthday related or no. Maybe someone is out of town a lot and asks friends to check on their cats, someone else asks for help with their home business sometimes, borrows people's cars, stuff like that. It doesn't have to be perfectly equal, just within reason and with some reciprocity involved. Since it's too expensive for some, just tell him he needs to find an alternative solution, probably either by having a smaller fancy dinner (one on one, even), or keeping it the same size, but at a cheaper restaurant.
As far as how normal it is, that doesn't matter. Everyone thinks they're normal, but nobody is.
True story: My best friend has a HUGE family, and everyone, on their own birthday, has to take the whole gigantic family out for dinner, usually at a fancy place. And the people who can't make it to the dinner put in take out orders! No shit! It's super-expensive, like they have to save up for a while to cover their own birthday dinners! And when it's a kid's birthday, their parents pay. It's a major expense, and other people are usually incredulous and/or outraged when they hear about it, but that's just how they do.
In my family, we only recognize adults' birthdays kind of cursorily, if we happen to be in the vicinity of the birthday person. We don't make a point to call or even remember each others' birthdays. If you want a present, just get one and then you can invoice somebody for it if you want to and they'll pay. That's just how we do.
But my friend and I are just a few days apart in age, so we have always done something together for both of our birthdays. So when my husband moved in, I informed him that he was now in charge of our mutual birthday thing, so now he takes us on our birthday date. But my husband doesn't celebrate his own birthday at all, and strongly discourages anyone else from even acknowledging it. So we both come out ahead of him on that count, but everyone has their own needs met within reason, and we're all close enough that we don't really keep track, but just figure that things come out fairly even in the end.
posted by ernielundquist at 12:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Hi All -- not intending to threadsit, but reading along with appreciation. Just wanted to answer a few questions that have popped up.
mpbx asked if he reciprocates for my birthday. Hahahaha, no. Until the advent of Facebook he didn't even remember the month of mine, much less celebrate with me.
praemunire asked how the tradition got started. To be honest, I don't really remember! I think we were in our 20s and didn't really know better and it stuck. foxjacket and corb probably have it just right.
I would also note that he has been included in my family's dinners and holidays at home and at restaurants over the last several decades and never offers to pick up a check or brings so much as a bottle of wine.
posted by gateau at 12:39 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
mpbx asked if he reciprocates for my birthday. Hahahaha, no. Until the advent of Facebook he didn't even remember the month of mine, much less celebrate with me.
praemunire asked how the tradition got started. To be honest, I don't really remember! I think we were in our 20s and didn't really know better and it stuck. foxjacket and corb probably have it just right.
I would also note that he has been included in my family's dinners and holidays at home and at restaurants over the last several decades and never offers to pick up a check or brings so much as a bottle of wine.
posted by gateau at 12:39 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
huuh. he sounds kind of spoiled. but even spoiled peeps deserve buddies i suppose.
how bout you invite him for sushi or something (a picnic lunch – something – make it clear you're gonna go dutch), and then ya'll (the entire b-day crew) are there and surprise him with balloons and a cake or something. a mariachi band. then you skip the whole ordeal of coordinating something that meets his every whim, and he'll be stoked he got a surprise b-day party.
*edit, oh. i didn't see your latest update. dude. yeah, its time to have the talk. he's gonna lose all his buds if this kinda behavior keeps on going.
posted by speakeasy at 12:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
how bout you invite him for sushi or something (a picnic lunch – something – make it clear you're gonna go dutch), and then ya'll (the entire b-day crew) are there and surprise him with balloons and a cake or something. a mariachi band. then you skip the whole ordeal of coordinating something that meets his every whim, and he'll be stoked he got a surprise b-day party.
*edit, oh. i didn't see your latest update. dude. yeah, its time to have the talk. he's gonna lose all his buds if this kinda behavior keeps on going.
posted by speakeasy at 12:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have a friend just like Nick - long time friend, crazy high-maintenance - so I get it. He has even done the same thing - "let's go to dinner for my birthday but you pay!"
Because he's a super long time friend and because he has other great qualities I went with it. Plus I always saw it as the same as me buying him a birthday gift. My contribution to his birthday dinner "experience" WAS his gift. I didn't get him anything else as a gift and if you are I might stop that.
However the whole "you do the research and pick out the place according to these parameters that you probably won't be able to meet due to my crazy parameters" would NOT be ok. That would be the line, even for me.
So I would tell Nick that while you are swamped at work/home/personal life and can't help out with the research you look forward to joining him at whatever place the group decides. I personally would just consider it the same as if you bought him and gift then went out and paid for your own dinner at his party. If you have a hard "gift" budget, tell him that in advance when you tell him the other thing. My 2 cents.
posted by WinterSolstice at 12:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because he's a super long time friend and because he has other great qualities I went with it. Plus I always saw it as the same as me buying him a birthday gift. My contribution to his birthday dinner "experience" WAS his gift. I didn't get him anything else as a gift and if you are I might stop that.
However the whole "you do the research and pick out the place according to these parameters that you probably won't be able to meet due to my crazy parameters" would NOT be ok. That would be the line, even for me.
So I would tell Nick that while you are swamped at work/home/personal life and can't help out with the research you look forward to joining him at whatever place the group decides. I personally would just consider it the same as if you bought him and gift then went out and paid for your own dinner at his party. If you have a hard "gift" budget, tell him that in advance when you tell him the other thing. My 2 cents.
posted by WinterSolstice at 12:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I think Rock 'me Sock 'me is right, and that Nick would probably chip in, but if Nick's tradition is overburdening your friends, starting your own up again might get you the sideeye from your other friends.
Gateau, what bothers you the most? The expense/tradition, or the feeling he's being a jerk and taking advantage?
posted by corb at 1:03 PM on March 23, 2017
Gateau, what bothers you the most? The expense/tradition, or the feeling he's being a jerk and taking advantage?
posted by corb at 1:03 PM on March 23, 2017
Honestly, to me this does sound like kind of a pain and a hassle, but once a year, I'd probably just roll along with it. If you've been friends with anyone that long, there are probably a few things they do or traits they have that make you want to eyeroll, but you tolerate them because that's just them, you know?
posted by Occula at 1:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Occula at 1:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
By which he means: pick up the check. His control-freakitude usually results in him ordering a variety of dishes for the table that he prefers, which everyone samples from.
These two things are the problem. You and at least 2 others (Jacqueline is one) all tell him that you will gladly come along (to a reasonable restaurant) but will order for yourself only and pay for yourself only. Also, he is responsible for the venue and reservation. One year of 10 people waiting for a table that never becomes available will set him straight on reservations. You don't need to give him a gift if he doesn't give you a gift and you don't need to buy him dinner when he does not buy you dinner. If he pushes back on that, ask him why the rules for him are different.
posted by soelo at 1:23 PM on March 23, 2017
These two things are the problem. You and at least 2 others (Jacqueline is one) all tell him that you will gladly come along (to a reasonable restaurant) but will order for yourself only and pay for yourself only. Also, he is responsible for the venue and reservation. One year of 10 people waiting for a table that never becomes available will set him straight on reservations. You don't need to give him a gift if he doesn't give you a gift and you don't need to buy him dinner when he does not buy you dinner. If he pushes back on that, ask him why the rules for him are different.
posted by soelo at 1:23 PM on March 23, 2017
It sounds like it's less about this one incident and rather resentment over other small things that have built up over the years. This is just seeming like the "last straw". This kind of situation, out of context, seems not too extreme, but you clearly sound like you are fed up with him in many other ways. So maybe instead of thinking about how to handle this one situation, think about how you want this friendship to pan out eventually and then deal with this so you can achieve the bigger picture result.
posted by monologish at 1:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by monologish at 1:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Your friend seems to be acting like an entitled goofball weirdo, but the convention of paying for the birthday person's dinner is totally normal and expected in my world, and personally I think it's a nice communal act, not some weird anti-individualist scandal.
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 2:02 PM on March 23, 2017
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 2:02 PM on March 23, 2017
Response by poster: To respond to corb's good question about the heart of the matter:
It's not the expense that really bothers me; the cost of the dinner isn't a stretch for me. It's the fact that he seems completely oblivious to all the circumstances surrounding this. As I mentioned, he has no trouble showing up to all my family's dinners and not bringing anything. He has also never offered to take me out for my birthday. It's the sense of entitlement, I guess, and the lack of self-awareness.
posted by gateau at 2:07 PM on March 23, 2017
It's not the expense that really bothers me; the cost of the dinner isn't a stretch for me. It's the fact that he seems completely oblivious to all the circumstances surrounding this. As I mentioned, he has no trouble showing up to all my family's dinners and not bringing anything. He has also never offered to take me out for my birthday. It's the sense of entitlement, I guess, and the lack of self-awareness.
posted by gateau at 2:07 PM on March 23, 2017
Based on your update, could this be an Ask vs. Guess thing? Maybe Nick has an idea of the exact birthday celebration he wants each year (right down to payment), and asks for it. Conversely, if someone doesn't make a birthday celebration plan, he doesn't celebrate with them, and it never occurs to him that either of these practices could be seen as rude.
So, that's one possibility, perhaps. But yeah, it does sound like your reaction is informed by longstanding frustration of a more general nature. For what it's worth, I don't remember birthdays either, and whether or not I bring a bottle of wine or hostess gift is somewhat hit or miss. At the same time, I also would never just assume that people will pay for my birthday dinner. So the examples you've cited fall on a spectrum of acceptability, in my mind.
At this point, I don't think you're going to be able to discontinue group payment for Nick's birthday meal, since it would seem unnecessarily punitive unless people actually cannot afford an extra 3-4 dollars for his portion. I think the ship has sailed on that practice and cannot be reversed without hurt feelings. So at this point, the best approach would be to steer the parties toward reasonably-priced places to eat, and urge a more democratic approach to food selection so people feel like they have a say in what they eat and how much it costs.
posted by delight at 2:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, that's one possibility, perhaps. But yeah, it does sound like your reaction is informed by longstanding frustration of a more general nature. For what it's worth, I don't remember birthdays either, and whether or not I bring a bottle of wine or hostess gift is somewhat hit or miss. At the same time, I also would never just assume that people will pay for my birthday dinner. So the examples you've cited fall on a spectrum of acceptability, in my mind.
At this point, I don't think you're going to be able to discontinue group payment for Nick's birthday meal, since it would seem unnecessarily punitive unless people actually cannot afford an extra 3-4 dollars for his portion. I think the ship has sailed on that practice and cannot be reversed without hurt feelings. So at this point, the best approach would be to steer the parties toward reasonably-priced places to eat, and urge a more democratic approach to food selection so people feel like they have a say in what they eat and how much it costs.
posted by delight at 2:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm honestly on Nick's team here. In my group of friends you don't pay for your own birthday food/drinks/activities and that's how we celebrate everyone's birthday that wants to be celebrated. As for him not knowing/partying on your birthday he might not think it's important to you or that you want to keep it quiet. I like staying in or traveling for my birthdays but I LOVE celebrating my friend's, especially the ones that really want it. If you want lunch/dinner/magical christmas time, tell Nick because he's telling you.
If you don't want to go, don't go, and it'll be okay. He seems like a person that really looks forward to his birthday and that's okay too.
posted by coldbabyshrimp at 2:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
If you don't want to go, don't go, and it'll be okay. He seems like a person that really looks forward to his birthday and that's okay too.
posted by coldbabyshrimp at 2:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
You seem to have a pretty strong opinion. Have you confronted him with this? I was gonna suggest you take him to lunch on your next birthday, order crazy things at a ludicrous restaurant and then demand he pay, but then I thought, has the matter even been discussed openly? Has the guy asked why he doesn't give back in turn?
I had a phase where I'd buy everyone super expensive presents, if I was attending their birthday or gift-obliged event, then I had a pretty long period where I never bought presents for anyone. On both occasions I was a bit unhappy with it, but I still felt that this was the thing to do. I have friends that don't really confront me when I'm being an ass, but they do tend to get "harder to reach". So my suggestion, as I say, is trying to have an honest and frank conversation, if possible. There seem to be some straight-forward unanswered questions, because from what I've read here I can't really tell his motives, I can only guess. Therefore I'm loath to pass judgement on the guy, he might be clueless or amoral, or a bit of both. But he can't atone for something that is unspoken.
posted by svenni at 2:48 PM on March 23, 2017
I had a phase where I'd buy everyone super expensive presents, if I was attending their birthday or gift-obliged event, then I had a pretty long period where I never bought presents for anyone. On both occasions I was a bit unhappy with it, but I still felt that this was the thing to do. I have friends that don't really confront me when I'm being an ass, but they do tend to get "harder to reach". So my suggestion, as I say, is trying to have an honest and frank conversation, if possible. There seem to be some straight-forward unanswered questions, because from what I've read here I can't really tell his motives, I can only guess. Therefore I'm loath to pass judgement on the guy, he might be clueless or amoral, or a bit of both. But he can't atone for something that is unspoken.
posted by svenni at 2:48 PM on March 23, 2017
If this was a romantic relationship Ask, I would question why you are still with this person. There are no redeeming characteristics you mention in the question or follow-ups. I think you would both benefit from a heart-to-heart: Nick, because he seems more than a little clueless, and you, to get the built-up resentment off your chest. How he responds to your concerns will tell you what kind of person he is, and you will know whether he is worth the extra effort you clearly make for him year after year.
posted by Atrahasis at 2:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Atrahasis at 2:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I assumed there's something else going on because none of what you describe seems that strange to me. I've always felt that you shouldn't expect other people to plan your birthday for you after the age of like 8. So he's making sure he gets the party that he wants, which is a pretty adult thing to do (versus expecting others to, and being disappointed they can't read his mind).
The money part maybe is a little tacky, but I can see this too as basically being honest and upfront about the situation. Like, a totally plausible interpretation of this is that he's saying "no gifts please, just pick up the dinner bill thanks!"
And really, no one in my circle would let a friend buy drinks or pay for their meal on their birthday. Maybe he's just internalized what has always happened and is setting aside formality.
Anyway you basically explain the real issue here:
a) he's not the person I expect him to be, and he should be already without my help.
b) he's not the person I expect him to be, I will talk to him as my good friend and let him know he is hurting our friendship, and come up with a solution.
Or you could change your expectations I guess, though I've never seen anyone actually manage that.
posted by danny the boy at 3:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
The money part maybe is a little tacky, but I can see this too as basically being honest and upfront about the situation. Like, a totally plausible interpretation of this is that he's saying "no gifts please, just pick up the dinner bill thanks!"
And really, no one in my circle would let a friend buy drinks or pay for their meal on their birthday. Maybe he's just internalized what has always happened and is setting aside formality.
Anyway you basically explain the real issue here:
"As I mentioned, he has no trouble showing up to all my family's dinners and not bringing anything. He has also never offered to take me out for my birthday. It's the sense of entitlement, I guess, and the lack of self-awareness"So you're annoyed at this guy for basically behaving in a way you think is wrong, but you haven't told him so. You expect him to just know. Which some people do, and some people don't. Clearly he doesn't. You can take one of two paths:
a) he's not the person I expect him to be, and he should be already without my help.
b) he's not the person I expect him to be, I will talk to him as my good friend and let him know he is hurting our friendship, and come up with a solution.
Or you could change your expectations I guess, though I've never seen anyone actually manage that.
posted by danny the boy at 3:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean in the one example you gave, he was informed about an issue he wasn't previously aware of (restaurant too expensive) and promptly corrected (and really, over-corrected). But you didn't like the way he did it...
Like you're totally free to decide not you don't really want to be friends with anyone, for any reason, but no, I don't feel that he is 100% objectively wrong and you are right.
posted by danny the boy at 3:09 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Like you're totally free to decide not you don't really want to be friends with anyone, for any reason, but no, I don't feel that he is 100% objectively wrong and you are right.
posted by danny the boy at 3:09 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
You buried the lede here, I think. It's not just that Nick is idiosyncratic and obsessed with being treated like a princess on his birthday. It's that he's a cheap bastard in general, who is, on top of that, obsessed with being treated like a princess on his birthday.
You have no obligation to be the one to school him in basic manners like splitting bills, taking friends out for their birthdays, etc. You can try -- you can say "hey Nick, I'd love for you to take me to Chez Fancypants for my birthday next week" when it's time -- but in my experience these people can't be taught. You tell them to bring a bottle of wine and they show up with two buck chuck; you can say "hey I think I paid last time, could you get this one?" and then they'll embarrass you by undertipping.
I mean, give it a try if you want, but that's been my experience.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:27 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
You have no obligation to be the one to school him in basic manners like splitting bills, taking friends out for their birthdays, etc. You can try -- you can say "hey Nick, I'd love for you to take me to Chez Fancypants for my birthday next week" when it's time -- but in my experience these people can't be taught. You tell them to bring a bottle of wine and they show up with two buck chuck; you can say "hey I think I paid last time, could you get this one?" and then they'll embarrass you by undertipping.
I mean, give it a try if you want, but that's been my experience.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:27 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
You're not overreacting. In fact, based on your follow up, I have no idea why you're still friends with this person, he sounds insufferable. I used to have a Nick in my life, and well, he's no longer in my life. I decided it wasn't my job to teach this person manners.
I dare say Nick keeps acting this way because it works - for twenty plus years people have been paying his way and not calling him on it when he uses them and gives nothing back. If you don't want to keep funding him, I would just stop attending these events. (Actually I would cut him out altogether but that's just me.) Trust me, a person like Nick will just move onto the next mark.
posted by Jubey at 3:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I dare say Nick keeps acting this way because it works - for twenty plus years people have been paying his way and not calling him on it when he uses them and gives nothing back. If you don't want to keep funding him, I would just stop attending these events. (Actually I would cut him out altogether but that's just me.) Trust me, a person like Nick will just move onto the next mark.
posted by Jubey at 3:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Whoa there... he turns up to dinners at your place and doesn't bring anything? Why does he get invited again?
Blow the scrounger off...
posted by tillsbury at 4:06 PM on March 23, 2017
Blow the scrounger off...
posted by tillsbury at 4:06 PM on March 23, 2017
It definitely sounds like the problem here is more ongoing resentment rather than this being a one off weird quirk that your friend happens to have. Given that you say this is a long-lasting, close relationship that you want to preserve, I think a direct approach is best. Perhaps something along the lines of:
"Nick, you know that I love you like a brother, but you need to know that this birthday thing is becoming really high maintenance and difficult to coordinate. Why don't we just do beers at [Inexpensive Pub] this year?"
And in the future, speak up when you want him to do stuff:
"We would love to have you over on Saturday! Can you please bring the wine? I'm planning to make beef so a red would be the best pairing."
"We are looking forward to seeing you on Friday night. It would be great if you could take care of the dessert."
"My birthday is this weekend and I would really like to celebrate with you! Can we grab drinks?"
etc.
His response to these things will tell you what you need to know about whether it's worth continuing to invest in the relationship. If he's just been slightly clueless/bad at picking up on social cues/etc., the direct asks will help make things more reciprocal and hopefully heal some of the resentment. If he continues to mooch and make things difficult, then you can make a more informed decision about whether you perhaps want to pull back on the relationship or at least make him an "occasional" friend rather than a very close one.
posted by rainbowbrite at 4:18 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Nick, you know that I love you like a brother, but you need to know that this birthday thing is becoming really high maintenance and difficult to coordinate. Why don't we just do beers at [Inexpensive Pub] this year?"
And in the future, speak up when you want him to do stuff:
"We would love to have you over on Saturday! Can you please bring the wine? I'm planning to make beef so a red would be the best pairing."
"We are looking forward to seeing you on Friday night. It would be great if you could take care of the dessert."
"My birthday is this weekend and I would really like to celebrate with you! Can we grab drinks?"
etc.
His response to these things will tell you what you need to know about whether it's worth continuing to invest in the relationship. If he's just been slightly clueless/bad at picking up on social cues/etc., the direct asks will help make things more reciprocal and hopefully heal some of the resentment. If he continues to mooch and make things difficult, then you can make a more informed decision about whether you perhaps want to pull back on the relationship or at least make him an "occasional" friend rather than a very close one.
posted by rainbowbrite at 4:18 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
I wouldn't overthink the "he doesn't bring anything to dinners at my house." If he's a financially oblivious single dude, as it sounds, and food budget isn't a thing for him, he may not even understand that an extra mouth to feed at your home affects cost. Usually, it evens out because by this point in our lives, everyone has their own household, but it doesn't when you have those single dudes who don't cook at home and thus never offer you dinner.
This is especially true over the last few years, as meat and dairy and cheese and all the other cooking staples have gotten much more expensive, and you at least mildly notice their consumption.
Honestly this guy sounds much less like a moocher, exactly, and more a guy for whom life has been golden, so he doesn't assume these things exist. This is fixable, but it requires being really up front with how everyone isn't golden, which is sometimes pretty awkward.
posted by corb at 4:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is especially true over the last few years, as meat and dairy and cheese and all the other cooking staples have gotten much more expensive, and you at least mildly notice their consumption.
Honestly this guy sounds much less like a moocher, exactly, and more a guy for whom life has been golden, so he doesn't assume these things exist. This is fixable, but it requires being really up front with how everyone isn't golden, which is sometimes pretty awkward.
posted by corb at 4:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Just a cautionary tale in case you decide to let it go this year:
One of my parents' best friends is notoriously cheap and celebrates his birthday exactly this way (inviting people, specifying the restaurant, and expecting everyone else to pay for him.) My parents complain to me about it even though they've known him for half a century. This year, when they started complaining, I said "It's his eightieth birthday. What in the world makes you think he's going to change now?"
posted by Daily Alice at 4:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
One of my parents' best friends is notoriously cheap and celebrates his birthday exactly this way (inviting people, specifying the restaurant, and expecting everyone else to pay for him.) My parents complain to me about it even though they've known him for half a century. This year, when they started complaining, I said "It's his eightieth birthday. What in the world makes you think he's going to change now?"
posted by Daily Alice at 4:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Daily Alice illustrates my point above perfectly! If you don't speak up about it now, you're either going to go along with it for the next 20-30 years, or if you avoid going this year you're going to have to do that for the next 20-30 years after one of you kicks the bucket. Talking to him will involve a lot of emotional labour; it's up to you if you want to and think he's worth it. It'll likely be one tough conversation followed by a lot of awkwardness and maybe a ruined friendship. Maybe even get some help from captainawkward.com for a good script. She is awesome.
posted by foxjacket at 6:22 PM on March 23, 2017
posted by foxjacket at 6:22 PM on March 23, 2017
I really wonder why you're friends with this person at all. He seems exceedingly self-centered -- it feels like more than cluelessness after reading your follow-ups.
posted by sarcasticah at 6:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by sarcasticah at 6:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is it too late for me to say something about how kooky and off-putting this entire enterprise is after sucking it up for years and years?
Nope. As long as you both draw breath, it's not too late. Call out him out on his bullshit.
In practical terms, should I just ask for a separate check for myself and my husband and order what we want? (From my husband’s perspective, he recommended we all just feign 24-hour flus and ditch the whole thing)
I agree with your husband. Fuck this noise, you must have better things to do than massaging this fool's enormous ego.
And, bottom line – am I overreacting to this entire situation?
You are way underreacting. Nick is being a presumptious, inconsiderate boor. Honestly, it will be awkward but you will do him a favour by calling him out on it.
mpbx asked if he reciprocates for my birthday. Hahahaha, no. Until the advent of Facebook he didn't even remember the month of mine, much less celebrate with me.
I would also note that he has been included in my family's dinners and holidays at home and at restaurants over the last several decades and never offers to pick up a check or brings so much as a bottle of wine.
Honestly, based on this post, Nick comes off as an utter asshole. Given that you have been friends for a long time, I am going to assume that he also has good qualities and you actually enjoy his company most of the time. But fuck, seriously? Who is this man child? Tell him to get his shit together.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nope. As long as you both draw breath, it's not too late. Call out him out on his bullshit.
In practical terms, should I just ask for a separate check for myself and my husband and order what we want? (From my husband’s perspective, he recommended we all just feign 24-hour flus and ditch the whole thing)
I agree with your husband. Fuck this noise, you must have better things to do than massaging this fool's enormous ego.
And, bottom line – am I overreacting to this entire situation?
You are way underreacting. Nick is being a presumptious, inconsiderate boor. Honestly, it will be awkward but you will do him a favour by calling him out on it.
mpbx asked if he reciprocates for my birthday. Hahahaha, no. Until the advent of Facebook he didn't even remember the month of mine, much less celebrate with me.
I would also note that he has been included in my family's dinners and holidays at home and at restaurants over the last several decades and never offers to pick up a check or brings so much as a bottle of wine.
Honestly, based on this post, Nick comes off as an utter asshole. Given that you have been friends for a long time, I am going to assume that he also has good qualities and you actually enjoy his company most of the time. But fuck, seriously? Who is this man child? Tell him to get his shit together.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I learned to do things like bring wine and have the customary tussle over who will pick up the check from watching my parents.
It seems like he might be a self-centered cheap boorish asshole user, but it might also be that he is just unsocialized. (I've been oblivious to the importance of some things that I've seen acquaintances and friends do, because sometimes I don't grasp that these are things that are actual societal expectations as opposed to personal quirks.) So I don't know if you can or want to teach him, but there's definitely room to give him the benefit of the doubt.
When you say he comes to your family's dinners without bringing anything, do you mean to households that aren't yours (like your parents or cousins)? If so, maybe the next time he's invited you could say "hey, I know it's kind of weird to bring this up after so many years but do you think you could bring along some kind of hosting gift this time? I love you but I always feel a little uncomfortable about how my dear friend always comes empty-handed. " Or do something similar if you're both invited to some mutual friend's ("Nick, help me decide what hosting gift to bring. What are you bringing?")
If he responds in a way that results in him starting to pick up the slack that he now perceives, then you can probably talk to him successfully about the birthday thing. I agree with the comment that suggests leaving this for next year's birthday, though. (And with respect to this kind of correction in general, he might not act great on the spot, out of defensiveness or whatever. The question is what he does with the information over a slightly longer period of time.)
posted by trig at 10:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
It seems like he might be a self-centered cheap boorish asshole user, but it might also be that he is just unsocialized. (I've been oblivious to the importance of some things that I've seen acquaintances and friends do, because sometimes I don't grasp that these are things that are actual societal expectations as opposed to personal quirks.) So I don't know if you can or want to teach him, but there's definitely room to give him the benefit of the doubt.
When you say he comes to your family's dinners without bringing anything, do you mean to households that aren't yours (like your parents or cousins)? If so, maybe the next time he's invited you could say "hey, I know it's kind of weird to bring this up after so many years but do you think you could bring along some kind of hosting gift this time? I love you but I always feel a little uncomfortable about how my dear friend always comes empty-handed. " Or do something similar if you're both invited to some mutual friend's ("Nick, help me decide what hosting gift to bring. What are you bringing?")
If he responds in a way that results in him starting to pick up the slack that he now perceives, then you can probably talk to him successfully about the birthday thing. I agree with the comment that suggests leaving this for next year's birthday, though. (And with respect to this kind of correction in general, he might not act great on the spot, out of defensiveness or whatever. The question is what he does with the information over a slightly longer period of time.)
posted by trig at 10:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Someone online once said that
That this guy acts like a BrideZilla who's getting married every year...? No. Enough.
I think it's time to pull him aside and say
"Dude, I am telling you these things because I care about you, and I want you to be your best.
So look, I don't really know why this imposed-tradition has kept on going, but it rubs pretty much everyone the wrong way. If you want to get together around your birthday with some friends, I think a lot of people would be up for meeting you at a bar, or a local place for lunch or what-have-you... but dude, your birthday is not the Make-A-Wish Foundation.
So, two things going forward:
posted by blueberry at 11:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is an age at which you should no longer expect people to fall over themselves because it's your birthday.I agree.
That that age is twelve.
That this guy acts like a BrideZilla who's getting married every year...? No. Enough.
I think it's time to pull him aside and say
"Dude, I am telling you these things because I care about you, and I want you to be your best.
So look, I don't really know why this imposed-tradition has kept on going, but it rubs pretty much everyone the wrong way. If you want to get together around your birthday with some friends, I think a lot of people would be up for meeting you at a bar, or a local place for lunch or what-have-you... but dude, your birthday is not the Make-A-Wish Foundation.
So, two things going forward:
- enough with the big elaborate expensive restaurants that must meet your myriad specifications--no one wants those, and a lot of us can't afford a high price for two bites of a shared dish.
- you never "invite" people to a party for yourself (!) that they have to foot the entire bill for--that is just rude and boorish--honestly, it's just the good etiquette from others that seems to have kept them from telling you how terrible it makes you look.
posted by blueberry at 11:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
People start this in their 20’s. Most also stop in their 20's. By the time you're squarely in middle-age, if you want to pick the restaurant every time and also do all the ordering, you host. You pay for the entire dinner. You certainly don't do the above and make everyone else but yourself pay. Don't go to these anymore. Go have a drink or lunch for non-birthday visits. Make it clear that they're 50/50 affairs. You are not overreacting. If he asks, I would tell him the truth about why.
posted by quince at 11:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by quince at 11:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you want him to understand the social expectations around dinners (birthdays and otherwise), I think you just have to tell him. I had a friend who never hosted anyone for dinner or parties and always showed up to my place empty handed, even though he was financially more than capable of picking up something to bring. At some point I just told him "dude, it takes a lot of time, effort, and sometimes money to prepare for these things - in the future can you stop at a store on the way and pick up a $10-15 bottle of wine?" From that point forward, he always showed up with a bottle of wine - he really was that clueless but well intentioned.
posted by asphericalcow at 4:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by asphericalcow at 4:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
I wasn't going to comment because the consensus seemed overwhelming, but then I scrolled down far enough that I discovered there were people who actually don't see the problem. I suggest you put these people in touch with Nick and let them take your place in the friends-with-no-benefits corner. In any case, I agree with the overwhelming consensus: Nick is a selfish jerk, and you can stay friends if you want but for Pete's sake don't put up with this insane tradition any longer.
posted by languagehat at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have to say, I don't get the view that the OP is in the wrong because she hasn't had a discussion with Nick in which she tells him how she expects him to behave. Assuming that Nick is a middle-class adult raised with middle-class mores, this is not something that his friends should be trying to fix. An adult should not have to be instructed by another adult to bring something with him when he's invited to someone's home for dinner. Similarly, an adult should not have to be instructed that he should reciprocate and offer to take his friends out to dinner when it's their birthday. If he somehow hasn't absorbed these lessons, that's on him, not the OP for not being sufficiently communicative.
posted by holborne at 10:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by holborne at 10:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Having an etiquette blind spot does not make you an asshole by default. Suggesting the OP talk to their friend is not saying that the OP is wrong but it is a solution that may preserve the friendship. Not everyone is willing to end friendships over something like this.
posted by soelo at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by soelo at 11:05 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
OP -- do you have any updates for how this went? I hope it all worked out for everyone involved.
posted by knownassociate at 12:58 PM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by knownassociate at 12:58 PM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
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posted by EndsOfInvention at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]